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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:11 AM
Original message
Dems are spineless!
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 09:15 AM by dennis4868
Here we go again. The repubs are out there saying that "Kerry flip flops on the issues and that at least with Bush you know where he stands."

The repubs and media never mention the following:

Bush said he would work with the UN to dismantle SDaddam's WMD and then went to war unilaterally.

When Bush took office he said that the US stands with the rest of the world in stopping global warming and then later backs out of agreements with other nations.

He pushes through No Child Left Behind and then backs off his suppurt of it by not funding it.

He says he is all for job training but has cut more than abillion dollars out of job training for the last 3 years.

Bush says he is for pell grants and then changes his mind!

During the 2000 primaries Bush says that it is up to the states with regards to same sex marriages and now he want an amendment to the constitution banning it!

I could go on and on here (especially with things Bush said duuing the 2000 election and how he waffled on those issues) but my point is that no one flip flops like Bush on every damn issue but yet Kerry is the one who has been labled the man who flip flops. The media does not bring this all out. Who will? Why does Bush get away with this? Make no mistake about it, Kerry is being (Al) Gored by the media now. He better fight back hard and the rest of us Dems need to fight for him or else!
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah. The gloves need to come off.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
fjc Donating Member (700 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. But, there is one thing I'm not happy about with the Dems.
They're talking about this gay marriage thing as a states rights issue, and I think it's because they don't want to address it as what it is, a human rights issue. That, to me, is a surly and evasive approach. I want them to stand four square for rights on this issue and take that fight to the conservatives. I want them to show that conservatives are undermining rights by seeking to exclude a class of persons from enjoying them. States rights does not do that.
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demnan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Right
I agree with this. I wonder why the Democrats don't just say, "Gay marriage is fine with me. Any couple who loves each other should be allowed to marry." But someone brought up the Equal Rights Amendment somewhere on the news this morning (as an example of how slow Amendments go through Congress) and it got me thinking.

If we haven't even ratified the Equal Rights Amendment the American public is sadly not ready for gays marrying. I'm ready for it but most people are not. So like with integrating races I'm afraid the gays will have to take to the streets, in a way the women have not, to get their rights.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. It IS States Rights...And Something We Need To Push
We've got a chance to tar and feather the GOOPs with one of their oldest mantras...the rights of the states over the federal government and "returning the government" to the people.

My marriage license was issued by my state. I had to take the appropriate tests, also conducted by the state. The only way the federal government knows I'm married is through my joint income taxes...nothing more or less. If I have a problem with my marriage, or there's a custody or other issue, I don't go to a federal court, I go to a state one. That's the way it should be.

Sorry, Gay rights don't fall in the same catagory as we see of the plights of the poor and disenfranchised in the third world...and definitely NOT a federal issue.

Think of it this way...and one I haven't seen posted yet...if an ammedment is passed and now the federal government determines what marriage is...how long will it be before they also decide who gets married or can have children. Then with the precendence of the federal superceding state law on a domestic matter, the RW can go after the other golden ring...abortion. You know this has to be part of their planning as well.

These bastards are feckless and don't care if their hypocrisies stand 100 feet tall, they'll lie and divert away from their troubles and label us as the cause.

Yes, we stand up and refute the lies...but we also pick our fights in the ones that will gain us the most advantage. Gay rights is a fringe issue that the GOOP is opening up for its own advantage. A lot of people are seeing that (thus the initial overwhelming polls AGAINST the ammendment, but still against the concept of accepting gay marriages on the same level as a heterosexual one) the GOOP is playing politics and dividing the country (run that "uniter not a divider"). Yesterday, videos of Chenney's 2000 debate responses were all over the place...also hammering the hypocrisy. This is what we have to focus on.
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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. spineless politicians?
who woulda thunk it!
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Now that Dean is out........
The democratic party will turn back into spineless mush
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Dennis is still there
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Cannikin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Well, he is...but he's kind of the joke of the day on the news....
You cant 'win' single digets and expect respect....Leno said Nader is really going to give Dennis a run for his money.
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
8. I told you so...


The only candidate that knows how to fight the Rove machine was Dean, and he lost...

It is looking like Kerry may be the Gore of 2004?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
9. there is no need to respond now.
...sometimes it`s better to keep your mouth shut and let the other person put their foot in their mouth.
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oc2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. ..realy?

If thats Kerry's strategy he may as well just concede the election to Bush right now.

Unfortunatley, the system works for candidates that smear, and frame thier advaceries as liars, cheats and incompetent weak leaders.

Bush is starting up the Rove machine on Kerry, and its not even spring yet! So you better get your plastic 'Galager' overalls on to keep the slime from hiting you!
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imax2268 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. here here...
good post...

They can't see that stuff though...they only see Clintons penis as the cause of all the trouble...
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Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
12. Seems that some Dems have forgotten there are troops
in danger everyday on the ground in Iraq. They evidently dont see them as human beings either. Out of sight, out of mind, not many people give a shit who they are or why they are there.
Its like banging ones head against the wall to put a face on these kids. Most people prefer denial.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
13. gore is a liar
kerry flip flops

they chose just a couple words and say and say and media picks it up and then they are done with there job, dont have to explore or work any further, laziest and most incompetent of being the media is, once again electing our president for us

so..........awareness. kerry has to loudly not allow himself to be created
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
14. Dems' leadership is spineless. They don't know how to fight.
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Robbien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. Some Dems are responding, but just not getting the press
Representative Emanual of Illinois presented this speech on the House floor yesterday:


Mr. Speaker, in addressing the Republican Governors Association fund-raiser last night, the President, in a much-touted speech, decided to unveil his reelection strategy. He pointedly accused the current front-runner for the Democratic nomination of having a record of flip-flopping, waffling and temporizing.

Since the State of the Union and since Meet the Press, I have been waiting for this President to offer a vision and an agenda for this country. His strategy has got America stuck in an endless occupation and a jobless economy. I thought last night we were going to hear a strategy of how to move forward, yet the President of the United States, after 3 years of governing, has decided his strategy is to tear down his opponent rather than to offer America a vision of tomorrow and what we can do to build something tomorrow.

I thought it was very ironic for a President of the United States, who has a growing credibility gap, where people question the validity and the very truthfulness of his words, to begin to question the consistency of the front-runner for the nomination of the Democratic Party. I thought it was very interesting because, if I am not mistaken, this was the President of the United States who has flip-flopped on steel tariffs. That has been this President's record. He flip-flopped within 18 months of having imposed the tariff.

This is a President who, although promoting tax cuts for the very wealthy, called them a middle-class tax cut. We now find out, in Paul O'Neill's book and Ron Suskind's book, the President of the United States knew that his tax cut went to the top end. He went into a meeting, said, ``Haven't we done enough for the top end?'' And yet he went out and sold his tax cuts as something else and then accused Democrats of class warfare for asking the very same question he had asked. And he wants to accuse the Democratic nominee, or near nominee, of being a flip-flopper?

He has a very interesting economic strategy. He is trying to wage three wars with three tax cuts and tell us the deficit is a result of something else; spending on veterans, police, education, and health care. Ever since his tax cuts for $3 trillion, America has added $521 billion to the deficit, 3 million Americans have lost their jobs, 5 million additional Americans are without health care, and over $1 trillion worth of corporate assets have been foreclosed on.

His economic report has now told us that the middle class of India, where they are outsourcing jobs, is the primary concern of the President's economic report rather than the shrinking middle class in Indiana. This is a President who then walked away from that. In Ohio, he said manufacturing was his top priority, yet year after year his budget cuts the manufacturing extension program which helps small businesses.

This is a President of the United States who on foreign policy took the Nation, regardless of whether you are for or against it, to war based on weapons of mass destruction, yet we have now found out in two State of the Union Addresses that he raises threats that are not true; in the State of the Union to the United States, where the world was listening.

The President's credibility gap is stretched even wider by his budget that is filled with flip-flops and inconsistencies. He has pledged $3.5 million in new money for police and firefighters, yet his budget cuts $1 billion out of existing grants to local police and firefighters. He told us the budget deficit would be manageable, but his plan to halve it by the year 2009 is an accounting fiction. Even Goldman Sachs and the IMF have blamed the Government of the United States for being a danger to the world economy, let alone employment growth here in the United States.

The President told conservatives of his own party that Medicare would cost only $400 billion. Within 2 months, the bill was for $537 billion. He promised to clean up the Great Lakes on one hand, so he increased the funding for $35 million, but with the other hand he cut the State Revolving Fund for water cleanup by $400 million. And this is an administration that wants to challenge people on the word of credibility, on their flip-flops and waffling?

The only thing this White House never waffles on is when you are a special interest and you need a special favor. They have been quite consistent if you are a pharmaceutical company, you are a polluter, or you are an insurance company or an HMO. So when this President says he wants to campaign on somebody's credibility and on their consistency, I as one Democrat welcome that, because we have 3 years of a record. This President has done a phenomenal job of getting America stuck in a jobless recovery and an endless occupation in Iraq.

This is an election about America's future, not offering the status quo that has put America in the position it is. So if credibility is a question we are going to have in this campaign, let us bring it on.


Good response!



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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
16. National security is Bush's WEAKEST point, not his strongest
but mainstream Dem politicians are mostly afraid to attack it (exceptions: Ted Kennedy, Robert Byrd, a few others).
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. When the time comes, believe me, all this shit about W will come out
Our boys have yet to finish off the Primary Process. Once thats done, its war on Bush.

And have we got some nukes for ammo, you bet.
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PsN2Wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. Although he's vilified here
maybe we should welcome Nader being out there telling the truth about Bush and his administration. Seems as if the DLC, et.al. are afraid they will hurt someones feelings if they tell the truth about their action and agenda. Nader being unaffiliated with the Democrats has no such restraints. Kerry, when he is responding to comments by the surrogates of the administration, too often gets into long, pedantic, Senator-speak that as often, bores, as enlightens.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:02 AM
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21. Deleted message
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