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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:01 AM
Original message
Poll question: ACK! Freeper Email At Work - My Response - Will I Be Fired?
the following came from a senior manager at work. i got the same one last year from my Mother in law. My response (to everyone on the mailing list) is in standard type. The original is in Italics:

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans.


No we haven't. We have experienced a surge of 'displays of patriotism,' which should never be confused with actual patriotism. Patriotism is NOT the waving of the flag and chants of USA! USA! Patriotism is voting (but the voter turnout the first Tuesday in November, 2001, nearly two months after the attacks, was its usual pathetic percentage). Patriotism is performing your duty as a citizen of this country: jury duty, obeying the laws, respecting the Constitution of the United States. Patriotism is service to country more than it is singing "God Bless America," which is MY favorite song.

It is a great disappointment to me that there has been little actual surge of patriotism. Instead, there has been a surge of the easy displays of patriotism. Any idiot can display a flag (and it's appalling how many people still don't know the proper way to display the flag). Any drunken idiot can chant, "USA! USA!" And too many of them do. This is not a football game or a hockey game. This is war. What are you doing for the war effort, Mr. Editorial Letter Writer, besides sewing hatred and bigotry?

However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.

It's a good thing you are "not against immigration;" you are descended from immigrants, I'll bet. Did you know that naturalized citizens of the U. S., that is people who were not originally citizens but chose to change their citizenship, have to pass a test? They have to show that they know something about this country and its Constitution. What do you know of either? What have you done for your country? Before you ask me what I have done, I am a veteran; enough said.

This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!

Where in the Constitution does it say that English is our national language? You know, there's an old joke that goes something like this:
Q: "What do you can someone who can speak three languages?
A: Trilingual.
Q: What do you call someone who can speak two languages?
A: Bilingual.
Q: What do you call someone who can speak only one language?
A: American."

The American Culture, such as it is, has benefited from generations of all sorts of "undesirables" (people like your ancestors...and mine) who came here not speaking the language you claim is our national language. Two of the more important personages in our American Revolution were a Frenchman (Lafayette) and a Prussian (Polaski) who could not speak English and didn't even become citizens. Yet without their help, it is questionable whether we would have defeated the British.

And while the first generation of immigrants usually has trouble learning a new language (but they manage), their children (the second generation) do quite well. It is only the narrow prejudice of the bigoted few--who generally do not even speak English well--who maintain that immigrants should learn English.

"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

Another misconception. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, and others were hardly Christian. Jefferson was pilloried in the press for his anti-Christian beliefs. He wrote his own version of the Bible, because he didn't believe the traditional Gospels were accurate or "the word of God." Washington was a Freemason who believed in God but was not particularly Christian. And Franklin, well Benjamin Franklin was one of the most notorious Free Thinkers of the 18th Century.

This country was founded by men of deep spirituality, but they would not pass muster in most Christian faiths. This country was founded on principles first enunciated by Thomas Hobbs and John Locke. It was further refined by the ideas and ideals of James Madison, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, and Thomas Jefferson.

Finally, "In God We Trust" does not (except to Christians) refer to Jesus Christ. In God We Trust is inclusive of Jews, Muslims, Sihks, Hindus, and Buddhists, as well as Christians.

It was just the sort of narrow thinking as that of this writer that was espoused by those who attacked our country on September 11th. They think their "God" superior to our God. They think the way of life they want to impose on the world superior to our way of life. Personally, I think nearly all ways of life are equally valid. God did not ordain one way of life superior to all others, else there would be no change or growth.

If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle.

What does failing to be a good Christian have to do with the "Stars and Stripes?" What does cultural diversity have to do with love of country? The sunshine patriots wrap everything in the flag and call it patriotism. If you don't want your culture to change, then you want it to stagnate, and everything that stagnates dies. This country is strong and great exactly because we take the best and the brightest from around the world. They come here because we offer opportunities undreamed of in their own lands where privilege often trumps talent and the free exchange of ideas can be punished by imprisonment and death. Our country, our land, and our lifestyle (as you call it) has always been an amalgamation of the best from around the world. And the people who come here have to overcome homesickness, poverty, the language barrier, and gross prejudice to succeed. But succeed they do.

The miracle is that they keep coming at all in the face of such infantile thinking as the writer of this exhibits here.

Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But, once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

Yes, our First Amendment does give every citizen the right to express a jackass opinion. (It also give me the right to call it a jackass opinion.) The only people I hear complaining are those who think American is white, Anglo-Saxon, and Protestant. The only people I hear complaining and whining are those who seem interested in displaying their ignorance and prejudice. The only people I see asking others to leave this country are those who never have.

And just who am I to dare challenge the narrow, racist thinking of this letter? I am an American. I vote in every election, no matter how trivial. I pay taxes. And I have served my country with honor. I read and am verse on the issues of the day. I pay attention to what the leaders of this country do, as well as what is happening in the rest of the world. I make educated and informed decisions about my beliefs and listen to a variety of opinions. I know that all it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to stand by and do or say nothing.

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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. nice response. (NT)
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BruinAlum Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Nice rant.
Doubt it would get you fired though.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. WWJD?
If Jesus was a republican, he would have the manager packing his bags the next morning.

I say do what any republican would do. Report it and gloat when he is fired.
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BruinAlum Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. What the hell??
:wtf:
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. Please update when the jackass replies
If he's got the stones, to.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. nice response - and yes, please update us
Thanks!
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:19 AM
Response to Original message
6. Um.....yeah......what's say we meet in..............say 10 minutes
You DID add the avatar and sig line, right?
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. No! But, You Might Not Get That Raise!
eom
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
8. F*ck 'em if they can't take it...
...every word you wrote is the truth, and if they can't see it, then to hell with 'em. They shouldn't send stuff like that out if they can't take an honest rebuttal.
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. now what's AMAZING?
not ONE of our Indian employees were included :eyes:
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Xenophobia is SO attractive!
Especially in a nation comprised almost entirely of immigrants. :eyes:

<Former green-card holder and now naturalized American - you should see the looks from idiots when I tell them...but, but, but...you don't have an accent! Bwahaha!>
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kayell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. hmmm, I suspect HIS email falls under "creating a hostile workplace"
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 08:53 AM by kayell
not a lawyer, but I think you might be able to get HIM fired or at least disciplined.

edit: oops, didn't read far enough in thread. Post #18 also mentions this. Follow up on it. Start with your human resources dept. (find out who there has handled programs on sensitivity, and if they were well run. Go to them) If they don't work with you, go further, get your indian coworkers involved and go see a lawyer.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. I find it interesting that you automatically assume that the senior manage
is a man. I guess most senior managers in America are men so you probably are not to far off base but it is an indictment on American business that one would just automatically assume all senior managers to be men instead of women. Your point is a good one by the way. I would consider that e-mail to be a form of harrassment. The poster stated a fear of losing their job because of a differing view. I think it should be brought up to the senior manager's superior.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:10 AM
Response to Reply #15
25. Massachusetts is FULL of first-generation immigrants
how ironic. Is the guy that sent you the email some old WASP or Irish guy?
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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #15
40. That is an obvious case of workplace racial harassment
I'd report him to HR, as well, noting the exclusions on the email list.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
10. Awesome response...
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 08:25 AM by deseo
.... if you are lucky, the recipient will have the intelligence and understanding to get it. But I'm not sure I'd be optimistic about that, but I can't think of any reason they could can you without canning him too. :)
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
11. Just remember that the bill of rights doesn't apply to the workplace
specifically, the first amendment.

I hope you're not an at will employee!

Be careful, think, and good luck!
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
12. Nice...mind if I use it?
I have gotten this jackass e-mail a few times over the past year. I'd love to shoot this response back the next time I get it. I'll, of course, credit Matcom!

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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. its all yours
:)
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HootieMcBoob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
42. I hope you don't mind if I bookmark this for future use too
I expect I'll be getting the same thing some time in the not too distant future. I used to get them a lot more from rushbot relatives but I started replying with my own stuff like you did and I get them much less frequently. Good work.

One thing though about the motto: you could also say that our countries motto is e pluribus unum = "out of many, one".

http://www.assumption.edu/ahc/
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Drifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
14. Nah, but you should have some fun with your boss
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 08:33 AM by Drifter
Our Project Leader is a Rush bot. Every afternoon he can be found at his desk with his head phones on.

One day in the lab, he got in a hot discussion with someone about politics. He broke the camels back by saying that "Hillary Clinton is a terrorist, She is a TERRORIST!". This was no doubt the topic of discussion on Pill-Poppers show the day before.

My friend (also listening), hopped up and confronted him. My friend then went to our mutual supervisor. The phrase he used was "Hostile Workplace". In that his guy was creating a hostile workplace by spewing his crap.

Our supervisor (who happens to be a few years our junior), made this guy personally go around to everyone on the team (even those not at this little event), and apologize for what he said.

I gave him the standard.
"I will fight to the death, to defend your right to free speech, but I don't have to buy into your right-wing crap, especially at work"

It was fun to watch him squirm. He no longer finds himself instigating political discussions like he did when Pill-Popper came up with "Hillary Clinton is a Terrorist".

Go to his boss, and tell him that your boss has created an uncomfortable work environment. If your boss does not have a boss ... You Are Fucked.

Cheers
Drifter
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. well, wasn't MY boss who sent it
one of the broker managers. idiot makes about $500k a year and can't complete a friggen sentence! :puke:
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. Typo--- sowing, not sewing
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 08:50 AM by OKNancy
also, I'm too lazy, but is "In God we Trust" really our national motto?

Edit: I looked it up, and it is:(U.S. Code Title 36, Subtitle I, Part A, Chapter 3, Section 302)
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wellstone_democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
18. Not a lawyer precisely
but did have the "wonderful" job for a while of being the "go to person" for EEOC/Insurance and other things that had to be managed but didn't "need" another person:

This, everywhere I ever worked, creates a hostile workplace. That is not simply a definition that works within Sexual Harrassment rules. At the moment my own pt-time employer in my bureaucratic incarnation forces us to take a full-blown class on the topic. This sort of example comes up all the time: the "political" mail. My employer encourages us to report it and commands us not to us company facilities for this purpose---a version of this was brought in this year in my refresher session. We "parsed" it out as an exercise. The session leader got all het up: seems that a reasonable person would construe parts of this as a threat! But, getting this from a superior in your chain of command is a big, big problem for the company. It is religious discrimination, there is an inherent threat and all together they form one hostile message to you the vulnerable employee.

Good luck, stand your ground. Wish I was a lawyer, I'd happily take this shit on in a formal grievance hearing!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
20. Excellent response.
Way to go, matcom!!! You showed yer ass, FINALLY in a good way!
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
22. "In God We Trust" and the national motto
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 08:52 AM by Art_from_Ark
You might want to remind your freeper friend that the original national motto of the United States was "E Pluribus Unum"-- "from many, one". "In God We Trust" did not make it on the scene until 1864, when it was put on the 2 cent piece. It became the official motto in 1956 in the aftermath of McCarthyism.

The Founding Fathers would have cringed at the thought of a religious national motto.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nat_mott.htm
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ms_splash Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
23. This guy is ripe for a lawsuit
I don't know where you work, but this guy is ripe for a lawsuit if anyone get fired or "let go" who is foregn-born or doesn't match his ideal of Real American Behavior.

Talk about a hostile environment. Sheesh!
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. know what's funny?
not ONE of our non-white workers were on his email list :eyes:
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. You should forward it to them to get their opinions
If challenged by your superiors, claim that you thought the e-mail sender would want everyone to see it, not just the white people.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. NO DON'T!!
You could get busted for making THEM (non white male employees) feel as if they are in a hostile enviroment! I did that once in grad school, passing a homophobic mail to a lesbian friend. She chewed me out saying she didn't need to read anymore hateful things as she'd seen enough, that if I were so concerned then I should take the mail to the administration myself. She was right.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
26. Great response-isn't this kind of email a no-no at work?
Doesn't it violate company policy somehow (not to mention discrimination laws). Maybe you should send a copy to Human Resources?
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tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
29. Beautiful response, matcom!
Edited on Wed Feb-25-04 09:29 AM by tom_paine
:toast: :toast:

(can you believe I voted "nope"--votin' with my heart and not my head again. Good luck, pal...let us know how it turns out)
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
30. UPDATE!!
HR director read it (she is a team of one)

anyway, she came down and thanked me saying that she hopes i educated him (and the others).

told me she had tears in her eyes reading it.

she is gay and still in the closet here unfortunately (i am the only one who knows)

looks like my job is safe afterall
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Nice!
:thumbsup: to the HR Director.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. Good news, matcom
Will she reprimand the manager for sending out that drivel?
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. she doesn't have the power
unlike 'real' companies, the HR director isn't even above me on the ladder here
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #34
35. Bummer
so I guess you can count on more emails from this dipshit. :eyes:
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #30
37. Thank God we were waiting on an update
Good to hear.

Now get back to work.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #30
50. Good For You Matcom
:D
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WhoCountsTheVotes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
32. nice one! good luck in the unemployment lines!
Eventually we'll have to have a general strike anyway...
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Rabbit of Caerbannog Donating Member (742 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
36. Fu**ing BRILLIANT!
Can I paraphrase (plagiarize) your response for the benefit of certain asshole family and coworkers?
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #36
38. absolutely!
be my guest
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
39. You should show the original email to someone in Human Resources
Let them forward it to the appropriate person for investigation. In most companies and in all government agencies sending emails like this is not permitted. This guy will probably be disciplined and if he persists, he will be fired. Companies and government agencies can lose big time if they permit this kind of harassment. Not only that, company resources are being used for something other than work. You actually shouldn't reply to messages like this. Just print them out and take them to Human Resources.
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
41. If you do get into hot water...
... so also should the senior manager who used work time and your employer's e-mail access to spread the chain-letter e-mail.

Most excellent response, BTW!
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
44. bravo -- standing ovation
well said and well done!
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
45. Ignoramuses, not Americans, must adapt.
A fair and balanced presentation of the issues has been presented--why would they object to that?


rocknation
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myrna minx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
46. What a wonderful response.
Wow. I am saving this, to be sure. :toast:
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NoPasaran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
47. Great response!
One little quibble... Pulaski was a Pole; von Steuben was Prussian
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distortionmarshall Donating Member (166 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
48. does anyone know the difference between "verse" and "versed"?
other than that, perfectly fine response....

i suspect it would be illegal to fire you for responding thussly to an unsolicited email.... keep us informed tho....
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
49. you responded with facts in a respectful manner
the letter IS racist and if anyone should get in any trouble it should be the guy who sent you the letter.
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dmr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
51. Beautiful
Absolutely beautiful, Matcom. I could just hug you.

You respectfully responded with thought provoking intelligence; direct and to the point. You are a wonderful writer.

My teenage son, who debates with the other side as a sport, just read this. His word for you is "Awesome!"

This thread is definitely bookmarked.

:hug:
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. wow. thank you to you and your son
:hi:
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
52. UPDATE #2!
one of my coworkers (who is Indian) and the TOP mortgage broker in this company was forwarded the email from another coworker!

note: he was NOT included on the original email from the manager.

he just printed it out!

stay tuned for fun and follies!
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. OOooooohhhh! NOW we're talking lawsuit!!
He sounds like just the guy to file the complaint! HA HA HA!
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GOPisEvil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. Was that organ music I heard??
duh, duh, DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. Great response - may I plagiarize it if I get this crap again.
Except the part about being a vet, which unfortunately I cannot claim.

Right on, matcom!
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matcom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. absolfriggenlootly!
enjoy
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RandomUser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #52
67. Keep us updated!
Simply, awesome, Matt. :)

:yourock:
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David__77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
53. And here's my response from a couple months ago to this e-mail.
I got the same e-mail from a friend who was trying to engage me in debate...

"I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others."

This is two-way street. I agree that "identity politics" can be frustrating, but I'm always suspicious when someone refers to "political correctness." I have also witnesses another sort of political correctness I call "patriotic correctness." Not everyone is particularly happy about the actions of the U.S. government in the wake of the attacks on 9/11. But there has been an active campaign against dissident voices who oppose the wars against Afghanistan and against Iraq--for instance, political groups organized mass destruction of Dixie Chicks CD's simply because they voices their embarrassment of the U.S. president. A new McCarthyism has reared its head. If this writer were more focused on the need for open exchange of ideas without undue political coercion, then I'd be more apt to think there was honesty involved.

"This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom."

I absolutely disagree with this statement. "National identity" is actually a distinctly European concept--and one that was rejected by the American revolution. Unlike the United Kingdom, France or Spain, the U.S. identity forged in the anti-British struggle was emphatically NOT based upon language, religion, existing class distinctions, hierarchical social institutions or anything like that. It was based upon the idea of opening up a new frontier for human progress--culturally, economically and politically. The tradition that was developed out of revolution was one that self-consciously seeks to further improve itself. That is why many European countries are still mired in old feudal-type conflicts over ethnicity and religious sectarianism--just look at northern Ireland. Of course there is assimilation involved in immigration--that's inevitable and is unfortunately overlooked by many "multiculturalists" that this writer is complaining about. But assimilation changes not only the minority group, but also the larger body of society. With the assimilation of Irish and Germans, the WASP/Anglo hegemony in the U.S. has been superceded by a broader one, and this process will continue--and that's a good thing.

"We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our
society, learn the language! "

The vast majority of immigrants are very eager to learn English. However, it's a good thing that they continue to teach their children their native tongues. With the era of "globalization," having more multilingual people contributing to our economy is a good thing. Nothing wrong with Telemundo.

"'In God We Trust' is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

There were atheists and Jews among the American revolutionaries. I don't know what "documentation" this writer would refer to, because the proposition above is simply not supported by the facts. Tom Paine was a deist, along with other prominent forefathers including Jefferson. They saw sovereignty in man and man's law and believed in a natural law rooted firmly in scientific, material principles. It's really as close to atheism as one could really get in that era, and they were criticized by the British for it, among others. I don't imagine "God" offends anyone. To many, "God" means the divine sovereignty of humankind, or a Gaia Earth Goddess, the God of the Jews. Certainly we would not wish to say the "God" referenced in this motto only referred to the God of the writers of the Constitution. That would surely exclude the religion of the Catholics, who account for the largest number among today's self-identified Christians, but were pretty absent among the founding fathers. ("In God We Trust" as a motto was only adopted in the 1950's, by the way! The writer seems ignorant of this fact.)

"If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from."

"Uncle Sam" was a caricature devised for war propaganda posters during World War I, a cruel and unjust war that did nothing to make the world or this country freer or safer. So I'm not concerned about a cartoon. I'm concerned deeply, however, about maintaining the rights enumerated in the constitution, which is what we as citizens should really revere and hold up in admiration. A song and a cartoon is meaningless if not rooted in the legal and moral precepts in the constitution. So, when the writer says "we," I do not feel that I am spoken for here. I do wish for the culture of the U.S. to change. I wish for gay people to achieve equal rights, archaic race discrimination, which is surely a part of our culture, must be abolished. So change isn't necessarily a bad thing. Change is the "American way" if ever there was one.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our
First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE."

The writer is free to encourage individuals to emigrate from the U.S. That is a prerogative of freedom of speech. But I would suggest that it is unhealthy to expect a uniformity of opinion as is being suggested. I wish people were closer to my outlook on the world, but diversity of viewpoint should be valued. I'd like to hear your views on the matters raised here.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
62. You're the bomb!
Eloquent, factual, passionate, reasonable......

I like your style.
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Oilwellian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
56. Awesome response Matcom!
And I'm putting it in my pocket for future debates. Muaaah!
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KCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
57. excellent response, Matcom
I'm glad you're on my side. ;)
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CBHagman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
59. I don't know about the legal issues, but...
...print out a copy of what you were sent and keep a record of what sort of material you are receiving. My gut reaction is that the manager is completely out of line using company property to dispense his/her personal political views. For starters, it's immature. Secondly, it's unprofessional. Thirdly, it's insensitive.

Whatever you choose to do, keep everything documented and look after yourself.
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
60. Matcom, you are the MAN!
Beautiful response -- articulate, thoughtful, inclusive, compelling, cogent.

If anyone should be worried about being canned, it's the senior manager who sent the thing.

Thanks to you for standing up to the madness today -- it's much appreciated!

:toast:
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kaitykaity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
63. Maybe you could get that manager fired.
That'd be cool. Talk about harassment!
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
64. keep us posted
it is always interesting to 'hear' how folks respond when they have to face their peers after behaving like an ass.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
66. Jingoism
Main Entry: jin·go·ism
Pronunciation: 'ji-(")gO-"i-z&m
Function: noun
: extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy


Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: 'fa-"shi-z&m also 'fa-"si-
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
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maveric Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
68. ""In God We Trust" does not (except to Christians) refer to Jesus Christ."
Thank you for stating that. I'm so fucking sick of these RW racists and fundies rant about how this is a "christian nation", formed on "christian values, etc...".
Nowhere is the Jesus or Christ mentioned in the constitution,declaration of independance or the bill of rights.
NOWHERE!
They are hijacking "God" as being christian only.
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sangh0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
69. TYPO - You don't "sew" hate. You "sow" hate
.
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Gringo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-25-04 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
70. Your only crime is long-windedness
Brevity is the soul of wit.
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Xanth Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-26-04 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
71. Where in the Constitution does it say that English is our national languag
At least in California it is.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_3

CALIFORNIA CONSTITUTION
ARTICLE 3 STATE OF CALIFORNIA


SEC. 6. (a) Purpose.
English is the common language of the people of the United States
of America and the State of California. This section is intended to
preserve, protect and strengthen the English language, and not to
supersede any of the rights guaranteed to the people by this
Constitution.
(b) English as the Official Language of California.
English is the official language of the State of California.
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