Convince me heterosexual marriage s a good thing

[Fight_n_back]

Alright, I'm gonna come right out and say that I am not for marriage....but I could be convinced to change my mind. What would you say to me to get me to change my mind. Keep in mind that I view being able to marry as an inconvenience, not a a pressing matter.


I'm not committment phobic and have know quite a few very nice female people, I'm just asking for someone to tell me why marriage is a good idea.

In a time of chimpanzees I was a monkee

[Gore1FL]

1. Nothing to convince

marriage sucks. It is a failed institution causing more pain hardship and life disruption thatn anything else.

[KissMyAsscroft]

2. But hey, the kids love it!

nt

[REP]

3. It Isn't

It's an obsolete system of establishing male ownership of female fertility and offspring. It's obosolete in part due to new reproductive technologies and the acceptance of both adoption and single parenthood; it's also offensive to legally give ownership of fertility to another. It's an archaic system of going before a magician to get the blessings of a religion and the state to screw. It is a cumbersome arrangement that's expensive to get out of.

I support abolishing legally recognized marriage. Those who wish to may undergo a private religious rite that would be given no morer legal standing than bar mitvahs or first communions. I do support legal standing for civil unions between consenting adults.

[Fight_n_back]

4. Gosh

I always kind of viewed marriage as a way for a woman to get half my stuff. Your perspective seems to be the complete opposite.

[REP]

5. Guess You've Never Been Married

Most men are financially better off after a divorce than they were during the marriage.

[Fight_n_back]

6. Guess I have

my point was that marriage is better financially for women which you agree with so does that nullify your original point?

[REP]

13. Not At All

I didn't say anything it about it enriching women financially; I said it was expensive to get out of. Marriage is really based on ownership of progeny, which has nothing to do with the point you are belaboring. With IVF, GIF, donor eggs, sperm banks, surrogacy and the other reproductive technology, marriage is obsolete. That's all the 'sanctity' of marriage is about - who's the daddy. To really protect the 'sanctity' of marriage, not only would gay marriage have to outlawed, so would all reproductive technology that uses other than the genetic material of the married couple, as well as banning marriage of those who are infertile or sterile. I think it's smarter to get rid of marriage!

On edit: never-married women (with or without children) are better off financially than divorced women. My argument against marriage isn't financial, but this is a great point.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[REP]

15. What A Lovely Right Wing Argument!

When talking about Black Americans and Americans of Asian descent, you're talking about different cultures with different experiences in the US. Asian Americans haven't always been treated well, but Black Americans are still experiencing all sorts of discrimination, which is more of a reason for poverty than the licentiousness you seem to want to ascribe to them.

You also seem to equate marriage with reproduction. How quaint. Should the sterile be not allowed to marry, as they cannot produce future consumers?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[REP]

18. Please Document

Sex without marriage is one of those things that sounds OK to some people, yet the reality always is, as shown in study after study, that such relationships do not last

Please site these studies.

Should those who cannot reproduce (infertility, illness, etc) be prohibited from marrying? Should we go back to marriage as it was "thousands of years ago" and let a man marry as many women as he wants?

[Drifter]

22. Marriage has nothing to do with that ...

Based on your statement, not be a single Rich family would be getting a divorce. The divorce rate is around 50%.

Marriage does not promote Happiness.
Happiness promotes Marriage.

Cheers
Drifter

[Nihil]

28. Bingo! We have a winner here people!

> Marriage does not promote Happiness.
> Happiness promotes Marriage.

There is nothing about the marriage ceremony that will change two
unhappy people into two happy people. There is also nothing about
the marriage ceremony alone that will change two happy people into
two unhappy people (regardless of what the occasional smart-arse
might claim).

I submit that the 50% (or whatever) of couples who are married and
do NOT divorce correspond directly to the couples who are not married
but have lifelong relationships. In other words, it is not whether
a couple is married or not that determines whether they stay together,
it is the people themselves - the individuals, their attitudes towards
each other and the way that these aspects change over time.

Note that I don't specify monogamous, heterosexual, theist or any
other qualifier for the "couple", it is simply whatever works for
them. In that regard, marriage should be available to anyone (but
not made compulsory).

It "works" for me & Mrs.Nihil. It hasn't "worked" for several of
our friends. That doesn't mean that marriage is "good" or "bad".
Neither does it mean that it should be enforced or banned.
I'd recommend it purely from my own experience but people are all
different. If you find someone who is close to you, you will already
know whether you want to marry them or not :-) Hopefully, as your
views change over time, your partner's will change in a way that
allows you to remain a happy couple.

Nihil

[Shanty Oilish]

26. Well said, REP

I agree with 99% of all you've written on this thread. Marriage, I think, came about when societies got complex enough to need to formalize a basically natural relationship (pair bond). Establish a formula and you don't have to keep on reinventing the phenomenon. There seems to be an instinctive bias against single people, maybe because they're one-not-two, thus easier prey; maybe because they strike people as unsettled somehow. Sex gets in the way of anything else and theoretically marriage settles that. :eyes:
Women as property...I bet that goes back to pre-human stage. Females are not the stronger apes, and they constitute a valuable commodity, so who shall control it? the mightier ape.
Marriage has lasted because, given the ubiquitous oppression of the female, the female found it to be less offensive than any alternative. Without a prior male to fear, many a male would freely assault a female in the wild. And IMO we are still very much in the wild, civilization being a fragile thing.
Children likewise are better protected by marriage than they would be in sexual free-for-all.
Given the persistent state of nature, I believe marriage is a good thing, but not a perfect thing.
I'm curious about one comment you made: that it's offensive to give legal ownership of one's fertility to another. Yet you cite technology as having made marriage obsolete. Don't you think that because technology enables us to determine paternity, a man has a stronger claim now than he ever did? (I don't, but I'd love to hear the reasoning.)

[Enraged_Ape]

27. Well, gee, since I have no kids, have been married 11 years...

and love it, where do I fit into your pseudosociological scheme?

[mhr]

7. What A Great Question!

When the world needed to be populated by billions and billions to rape and pillage the earth, marriage was a great mechanism for managing the responsibility of childrearing.

With a world now overpopulated, nature pillaged beyond all repair, and the coming die off from peak oil, the services of ever more progeny to continue the destruction are no longer needed.

Hence, marriage has outlived its usefulness and should be outlawed.

[izzie]

8. Well it is up to you, half do not work and Who knows on the others.

I am in my 70 th year and I could count about 10 I see as happy the rest seem to put up with each other. I like living alone my self. I watch most of the people I have know marry and re=marry looking for something they never find. Or it seems like that as they start the whole thing all over.

[tkmorris]

9. Hmmmm

I really don't know what to tell ya. I am married and it DOES work for me, though I am well aware that my marriage is as unlike most peoples as the Wright brothers plane is to a B-2 bomber.

What do I get from it? The same she does, a partner. We are the best of friends and we support each other. Often my weaknesses are her strengths, and vice versa, so we complement each other well.

We are both kind of anti-social, but we need human companionship. We find it in each other. We share common goals, and we strive to achieve them. As a team.

As I grow older I fear many things, not the least of which is the process itself of growing older. She shares this with me. I will never be alone, and neither will she. There is ENORMOUS comfort to be found in this.

I have learned something in this marriage. It only works if we have absolute faith in each other to always be there for each other. We have sometimes doubted that but I doubt we ever will again. We have each been tested, and passed. I care more for her well-being than I do for mine own, and she reciprocates.

I'll tell you something else we both realize. We have both been through the wars. We have both been married before. We know that what we have found is unusual. Most people will NEVER have a partner the way we do. We are extremely lucky. We have indeed found the holy land, the shangri-la of relationships. It IS possible, though I have to admit it isn't the norm. All I can say is reject the notion of "settling", never accept a bad relationship. If you are lonely I don't blame you for having a relationship with someone you don't feel totally comfortable with but NEVER accept it as good enough. Soulmates do exist. Find yours.

[Fitzovich]

10. marriage

It is like pretty much anything else we do. It has it's good points and it's less than good ones. If you want to, do so. If not don't. I personally like being married but, if it isn't for you well......

[Indiana Democrat]

11. Marriage and Family...

...Are the cornerstones of a successful society. That has proven to be true over the millinia.

Enter into a lifetime contract with someene you love, raise children and then they enter into a lifetime contract with someone they love...

Rinse and repeat.


Marriage is a good thing...Man has just screws the whole idea up too much.

[REP]

16. Marriage Only For Reproduction?

I thought we were waaaaaaaaaaaaay past that. One can raise children in a stable relationship without the services of a magician or permission from the state. One can choose to have the magician perform a ritual and go on to choose not to reproduce. Family does not equal Marriage.

[Indiana Democrat]

19. The breakdown of society...

...can be tied directly to the breakdown of the family unit.

It is a proven fact that children born in wedlock are more successful, in every way imaginable than those born out of it.

One can "chose" to do anything, but statistics don't lie.

[REP]

20. Then Prove It!

Please document your assertions.

You forgot to answer whether those who cannot or will not reproduce should be barred from this 'cornerstone of society" or not.

[Indiana Democrat]

21. Prove it false.

I'm not here to be your personal research assistant. Don't believe me? Fine.

Here's a hint though...

You know I'm right.

[BR_Parkway]

24. Are you advocating the repeal of all divorce laws then? n/t

[BR_Parkway]

23. The ability to grow our own food is the cornerstone of society

it allowed us to stop being nomadic, hunter-gatherers drifting whichever direction we could find food in. Once we planted crops, we settled into areas and needed more of societies "rules" to allow us to interact with one another. During that time, females were routinely passes among the men depending on social ranking and hunting skills, not paired up for life. Is that what you're suggesting we go back to?

[retread]

12. Depends on what you mean by "marriage"? The blessing

of a metal hoop by a witch doctor? The state sanctifying a relationship? Committing to another person and agreeing to share your lives? A wedge issue to fire up your base and take the focus off the worst record of an occupant of the white house in any of our lifetimes?

[Nobody]

25. The medical benefits would be nice

If I marry, that means I get to be carried on my spouse's medical insurance through his job. Since I'm currently one of the vast number of uninsured Americans, that's a huge benefit.

If I marry, my spouse and I can visit each other in the hospital ICU unit automatically. We're just assumed to be allowed in without filling out paperwork anticipating the unexpected event that cause the emergency in the first place.

If I marry and one of us dies, the other is automatically assumed to be the next of kin without paperwork being notarized and relatives fighting our wishes in probate court. And even if there is a will, I don't have to worry about relatives fighting bequests to my spouse the way they would with a roommate who's lived with me for 20 years.

If I marry, the housework gets split in half.

If I marry, I've got a guaranteed dance partner, a guaranteed date for whenever we feel like going out, a movie partner, someone to be there when I get old.

If I marry, and we have children and later divorce, we are both responsible for making sure the children are cared for. The non-custodial parent has to pay child support.

[Fight_n_back]

29. "If I marry, the housework gets split in half."

Thats a joke right?

[Fight_n_back]

30. For those of you who didn't get it

I cut and pasted a post from a guy who asked the same question about gay marriage. I just changed the nouns.

Marriage is a legal contract that protects spouses from each other if something happens.

If you get married in a religeous ceremony then you are really married twice. The religeous ceremony doesn't count. The Priest, Rabbi, Shaman, etc., is empowered by the state to sign the CIVIL marriage license which is the only part that counts legally. If he doesn't do that then you aren't really married. So the whole argument is ignorant. Marriage is a civil union and the religeous part isn't recognized by the state.

Legally a Jew can marry a Catholic although it would be difficult for them to find a Priest or Rabbi to do the ceremony but they could walk into any "chapel" in Reno and have it done legally. If you don't want gay marriage then don't allow it at your Klan rally but legally it is a slamdunk, no contest issue.