X-Men and X-2, great gay and minority allegory. Very timely especially X2

[Cannikin]

Any of you X fans out there may want to pull out your DVDs and review them. If you didn't already know, the writer/director and several of the cast are gay. Both movies have alot of gay allegory within them. Especially X-2.

The parallels with current events, especially after today, will surprise you. I highly recommend it right now, if you havent seen it. Or dust it off and give it another viewing.....Now if only I could be that blue chick. hehe

[Nlighten1]

1. Magneto is gay?

[PVnRT]

2. Sir Ian McKellan is

I didn't know Bryan Singer was gay, though.

The only gay X-Man I can think of is Northstar.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

25. He's from Alpha Flight, not X-Men

Canadian superhero group. Had their own comics for a very long time.

[PVnRT]

28. He's with the X-Men now in the comics

Xavier recruited a short while back.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

30. I didn't know

I stopped reading them about ten years ago (apart from the occasional bookstore browsing, and then I only look at DC comics). Stories got boring, repetitive and tiring.

[utopian]

4. Wasn't Magneto doing it with Mystique?

[brainwashed_youth]

8. the character isn't

but Ian McKellen is

[Cannikin]

10. Have you listened to the commentary?

It has been suggested that his character IS. And only a Queen could have planned such a FABULOUS prision escape with such a FLARE.

[brainwashed_youth]

14. no I haven't

and besides, who cares if he's gay or not? It's not gonna make me think any more or less of the character

[Cannikin]

17. That's a very healthy open-minded comment...

I wish there were more out there like you!

[roguevalley]

26. Consider the story line ...

Being persecuted for what they are and can't do anything about.
Being made to feel inferior for what they are and can't do anything about.
Legislation being hysteria whipped up to persecute them legally.

Excellent story and characters. I love the X-Men. They show the truth in their stories all the time.

[Streetdoc270]

3. Really?

could you post links to or your insight on these moments in the film?

[Cannikin]

7. The directors commentary.....thats my main source.

Even in the commentary, it mentions the relationship with Mystique "although we dont know what form she takes when they are together" I believe is what he said. You can hear it in his voice, what he is trying to imply.

Especially the big 'coming out' scene with Iceman's parents would be the most obvious part of the movie. In addition to the mutant 'problem' being complicated.

Next time you watch the movie, just replace the word 'mutant' with 'gay'.

Bryan Singer is gay. Sir Ian (Magneto), Alan Cumming (Nightcrawler).

Mutant registration= Marriage Amendment
Mutants seen as a threat or danger to society....no comment needed.
Mutants just like everyone else...almost.
Parents turning against their children for not being 'normal'

Remember the line 'Have you tried NOT being a mutant?'

Trust me when I tell you, many gays have been asked that from their parents.


http://www.indiewire.com/focus/A1052111424.html
"Bryan Singer: Gay, Jewish and Director of a Hollywood Hit Before filmmaker Bryan Singer was the director of "X Men" and its popular sequel, the director won the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance and also directed "The Usual Suspects." In a revealing interview with the BBC, the director talks about being gay and Jewish. He reflects on the personal aspects of his Hollywood blockbuster: "I could think of no better place to spill out one's own personal problems and foist them onto the world."

[ShimokitaJer]

11. That may be the director's intention...

but I'd say it's only possible due to the applicability of the original message to discrimination of any kind. X-2 was based on an X-Men graphic novel called "God Loves, Man Kills" from back in 1982, when gay rights were not the mainstream issue they are today. Many of the elements you specified came from this original storyline, long before the marriage amendment came along. Magneto in the original comic books was not gay but Jewish, and a victim of the concentration camps.

Of course, this does nothing to discount Singer's unique interpretation of the theme in a more current incarnation, but we should also be wary of applying the interpretation too far into the past.

[Cannikin]

16. I'm going on the facts of what I've heard on the commentary ...

and read in interviews...It was not my interpretation. If you read the BBC interview, I think it will be clear that the parallels were very much intentional. It was Singer himself who identified himself with the characters, since he is gay and Jewish. He's forced to stick to blending old story lines to keep the X-men fundies from raising cain, like the trekkies did with TNG and the Battlestar Galactica fans are doing now towards the new series. He's done a descent job of it. I'm anxious to see what happens to Pheonix in the next one.

[ShimokitaJer]

18. I don't doubt that they were very much intentional

And it sounds like the director did an excellent job of using the theme of discrimination of the original story in a very creative way to speak of an important issue of the day.

However, aspects you mentioned such as the "mutant registration act," mutants as a threat to "normal folks," etc. are not original to the film version, were not based on the fight for gay marriage, and are not limited to the issues dealt with in the film. They are as applicable to gay rights as they are to WWII internment camps, anti-Semitism, racial discrimination, or even modern immigration policy.

I had no intention of denying the links you describe, but merely wanted to caution against applying them to broadly.

[Cannikin]

24. Oh. I see your point.....Bryan Singer is gay AND Jewish...and adopted.

He incorportated ALL of these aspects of his personal struggles into the movies.....And I can ONLY refer to the film version since I never read comics. I'm from a small town and you never could get them on a regular basis...at least without major story gaps.

[Cannikin]

27. His name was also Magnus, wasnt it? Now it's Eric.

Singer has made some drastic changes. But they work.
I remember now. I'm glad the director chose to abandon the comic book feal that some other super-hero movies fell into and tried to make it a bit more believable...a bit more.

[starroute]

21. Mystique was originally planned to be Nightcrawler's father

This was something that never quite made it into the comics, but was part of Claremont's initial concept of the characters, back in the 1980's. You can find mentions of it through Google Groups:

The original plan from Claremont was that Mystique, a shapechanger usually seen in feminine form, was actually Kurt's father. Drunk and amnesiac after the events of World War II, Mystique was taken in by Irene Adler (Destiny), and the two of them had a child, Kurt Wagner (Nightcrawler). Marvel being a corporate-run company that, for a while, didn't even allow the word "homosexual" to appear in their books, quickly informed Claremont of the Great Displeasure he would find if he were to pursue that plot thread. It was thusly dropped.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=mystique+father+nightcrawler&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&c2coff=1&selm=38342735.9B8FB26D%40lehigh.edu&rnum=4

In the 90's, it became part of the Marvel canon that Mystique was Kurt's mother, but his father's identity has always remained fuzzy.

[ShimokitaJer]

22. I wish they'd push that concept now

Even though they've always referred to Mystique as Nightcrawler's "mother," given that she is still ostensibly female that could still be technically correct. It wouldn't be the most convoluted storyline they've ever done.

But I wonder if the times are "enlightened" enough to allow it even now. It's convenient to simply say that it wouldn't have been accepted back then, but I wonder if Marvel would allow it even now.

[PVnRT]

29. Ahh, but they recently revealed who is father is

Some badass named Draco who rules a dimension that looks a lot like hell - I think it's what Nightcrawler is supposed to travel through.

In addition, they came right out and showed Mystique giving birth to Nightcrawler in Germany after a tryst with said Draco.

[DrWeird]

5. Yeah, he's totally gay in the movies, lots of innuendo.

Don't know about the comic books. He does have a son, never heard about the mother.

[romantico]

6. I Love Sir Ian!

He ia a true hero! I worked w/someone who just refused to believe he was gay.He swore Gandalf couldn't be gay!I told him he was dumbass & really haven't spoke to him since! Mike Wallace said the same thing to sir Ian on 60 minutes right when the Fellowship came out. Ian cut him off & said, "Oh shut up!I'm an actor for God's sake!"Mike was for once speechless & just moved on.Ian was great!His site is pretty cool as well!

http://www.mckellen.com

[PVnRT]

31. Son and daughter

Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch. The mother was a non-mutant that he left not long after he started getting involved with his mutant-rights philosophy.

[Cannikin]

9. BBC interview with Singer about X2

http://www.bbc.co.uk/films/2003/04/25/bryan_singer_x_men_2_interview.shtml

Bryan Singer
X-Men 2

Interviewed by Stephen Applebaum


A fascination with evil has always been at the heart of Bryan Singer's films, and his "X-Men" sequel is no exception. Here he talks about historical parallels, minority matters, and personal issues in the film that looks set to become one of the summer's biggest box office hits.

Do you worry about how Brian Cox's character, Stryker, is going to be perceived in the States?

Yeah, but he's a villain. He's duping the President - he's operating in Canada, for God's sake - so he's a rogue element. He's also driven by something deep and personal, so his actions don't represent the government's view. The President is on the fence.

These films are haunted by the idea of the knock on the door. Being Jewish yourself, was this something you responded to when you read the comic books?

I always wanted to get involved in science fiction fantasy, and the notion that Professor Xavier was Martin Luther King and Magneto was Malcolm X, and these were two men who had very strong, decent beliefs, but had taken different roads. And the irony of that, and the moral ambiguity of that, intrigued me. It was a step beyond simple crime-solving, superhero action. It was much more socio-political, and in that way exposed more truth.

How much, though, have you personally brought to these films? It has been suggested that because you're gay and Jewish, you know what it is like to feel like part of a minority...

I'm actually part of a number of minorities. I grew up being a horribly awkward kid. A terrible student. And now I find myself as a filmmaker, and you feel kind of alone in the world because you're separate from everyone else. So, yeah, it's definitely everything from the scene with Bobby Drake and his family, to Wolverine's journey to uncover his past. I'm adopted, so even my own origins I'm not completely precise on.

The journey of Wolverine has always been a very personal one, because it's not just about where did I come from, who am I really, but how important is that to who I am now and to who I'm going to be? That journey, particularly through this picture, has been a kind of odd, personal one for me.

It seems that "X-Men" and "X-Men 2" represent your identities as a Jew living in America and as a gay man respectively, because in this one there is a homosexuality/homophobia subtext...

Well, yeah. That is also a very relevant analogy because where certain races, even a Jewish boy or a Jewish girl, will be born into a Jewish family, or a Jewish community sometimes, or an African American or whatever minority in any given area, a gay kid doesn't discover he or she is gay until around puberty. And their parents aren't gay necessarily, and their classmates aren't, and they feel truly alone in the world and have to find, sometimes never find, a way to live.

So you're exploring your own situation in these films?

Absolutely. And what better way than in a giant, action, summer event movie! I could think of no better place to spill out one's own personal problems and foist them onto the world . And for that, I apologise.

Does the fascination with evil that runs through all your films have its roots in the fact that you are Jewish?

I think so. I was very obsessed with the Holocaust as a child and man's inhumanity to man. And, ultimately, it came from my fear of intolerance. In certain places, for whatever reason, just for being Caucasian or having blue eyes, someone might want to cut my head off. For being American, for being anything, for just being myself, someone might want to destroy me. That concept is so terrifying that it constantly bears exploration.

[Cannikin]

12. I hope we havent ruined the movies for all the hetero fans!

I sure didnt mean too!

[Meldread]

13. Yeah I noticed.

I noticed that X-Men (the movies especially) has had a lot of allegory when compared to minorities. (Especially gay people... because you can't really tell who is a "Mutant" and who isn't. Although on some you can.)

Kinda strange to be relating like that to an action movie. It makes you feel a more personal connection with the characters though.

[Cannikin]

15. I've never read an xmen comic...

But I sensed the connection to the characters in the movies, it was only later I found out Singer was indeed gay and the writing was reflecting it. It was much more apparent with the second movie.

[nostamj]

19. i was an X-Man fan long before I came out

and LONG before the movies, cartoons, etc.

i'm talking 30+ years ago. the $.12 comic books.

they were 'outsiders'
different
they had a 'secret'

i related. big time.

and that was LONG before Hugh Jackman's incarnation of Wolverine!

btw, HJ is a MUSICAL THEATRE GOD!

[EOTE]

20. Just an FYI....

The comic book was originally made as an allegory of the Civil Rights Movement with Magneto representing Malcolm X and Xavier representing Dr. Martin Luther King.

[Cannikin]

23. Thats interesting. I've never heard that before...

So its only fitting it be adapted to a more modern struggle of equality that goes beyond mere race.

[Deja Q]

32. Quite. The allegory is strong, sublime, and subliminal as well...

It need not be there to be great.

The first movie has some great bits which clearly are gay-themed (be on the lookout for Mystique (the blue chick) in a key scene... I wish I was in the theatre as I would have applauded that moment (she beats up the bastard, commenting that scum like him made her life more than miserable as a child... big parallel there...)

It also pays homage to another movie I much admire...

X2 is much more action-themed and it handles the action, and all other elements, very well. And the allegory is indeed there.

Pity we really don't have super powers... :-(


:kick: