How many votes will supporting the NEA cost us?

[JailForBush]

I shouldn't be surprised to see so many people attacking Rod Paige for what may be the only intelligent thing he's every said - dissing the NEA as a terrorist organization. When it comes to education, liberals are just as clueless as conservatives. In addition, there are almost certainly a few NEA operatives monitoring DU.

(Lest any anti-conspiracy theorists want to post some idiocy involving Elvis Presley and his Martian friends, here's something for more intelligent people to think about: Do you really think organizations like the NEA and Microsoft would ignore important sources of information and ideas like DU? THAT's a stupid idea.)

But let's think about the NEA in relation to Campaign 2004. If people took the time to research the NEA and apply a little logic to the education scene, they'd come out swinging against this phony "union." So what impact would that have on liberal voters? It would obviously make many of them angry, even furious. But so what? Are they going to vote for George Bush?

The big ticket to success in this campaign may be right-wing swing voters - conservatives who are so fed up with George Bush that they'll swallow their pride and vote for a Democrat.

Guess what. Education is perhaps the only major issue where grassroots conservatives can kick liberals' butts. I'm not talking about the right-wing wackos who want to teach creationism and shove the Ten Commandments down students' throats. I'm talking about the more sensible folks who wonder where all there tax dollars are going. They're not completely stupid; many of them have children in public schools, and they know the whole stinking mess is going down the tubes. Heck, even many liberals are now supporting charter schools and vouchers. (I recall an incident during Campaign 2000 where some black parents criticized Al Gore for opposing "choice," effectively condemning their children to derelict schools while members of his administration sent their kids to exclusive private schools.)

So if a war should develop between the NEA and George Bush, and liberals rally behind the NEA, what kind of impact do you think that will have on potential conservative swing voters? It will just remind them of all the things about liberals that disgust them - and they'd be right about this one.

There is another factor to consider. Suppose liberals began criticizing the NEA, and it retaliated by throwing some of its support behind Republican candidates. I suppose it's possible, but that would only confirm what I've been saying, and NEA's membership would be truly outraged.

There are basically two ways you can look at the relationship between George Bush, Inc. and the NEA:

1. They're sharing the same bed.
2. They're two pigs fighting over the same trough.

One thing you can't say about the NEA is that it's a vital positive force in education. The only things the NEA excels at are hiding, tokenism and back-stabbing. You'd scarcely know the biggest local affiliate in the Pacific Northwest even exists. The best evidence is the continuing deterioration of what were once public schools.

Take off your blinders and take a closer look at the union that misrepresented me for sixteen years.

[MrSoundAndVision]

1. It seems to me that...

you seem to imply that, well what are you implying? That school school should be privatized? And shouldn't there be organized labor in the education system? I should think so, but I will admit that what passes for organized labor in this country is, well, not organized labor in a socialist sense and therefore not serving the public. They're all beauracy and self-perpetuation and no action...mostly across the board.

I should think that we should view the NEA, as ineffective and corrupt as they may be, as certainly providing protection against right wing efforts to privatize education.

[JailForBush]

12. Good questions...

1. I support school choice - or any viable alternative to our Soviet-style schools - in principle.

2. In actual practice, I do not support school choice, because it's being driven by the same corporations that have already taken over public education.

3. Is the NEA opposed to school choice? They were virtually silent a few years ago when gazillionaire Paul Allen bankrolled a charter school initiative here in Washington State. I did a little research and learned why - they apparently cut a deal with Allen.

4. This year Bill Gates is backing a new charter school initiative. Again, the NEA has been silent.

5. Washington State teachers are also on the verge of losing their right to strike. So where's their "union"? Good question.

[Taeger]

70. Voucher sure ...

If private schools want to play by the SAME rules as public schools, they can have ALL the fucking students.

That means they have to accept EVERYBODY. They have to provide assistants for special needs children. They can't simply kick someone out when they are fucking up the school environment (lawsuits). They can't simply fail kids who don't do their work (lawsuits).

Actually, I think the REAL answer is a fair amount of discipline in public schools. Pass laws that REALLY allow teachers and admins to get tough without facing lawsuits. Then you'll see things change quickly.

Provide Boot camp school on a county wide basis for kids who REFUSE to cooperate. I think you'll find that once you start kicking out the MEGA trouble makers, everyone else will calm down to a manageable level.

FINALLY ... PARENTS should be held accountable when kids don't do their homework. NOT TEACHERS!!!!!!!!

[ms_splash]

72. I agree with the begining of your post

But, then you lost me.

The boot camp model doesn't work, unless it is paired with what we know works...individualized attention from adults who really care about the kids.

You want to have more successful schools? Do what really works:

smaller classes, more and better paid teachers with the support they need.

[Taeger]

76. Most boot camps ...

Most boot camps are designed for kids who are either imprisoned or are on their VERY last chance.

The truth is that some kids simply aren't cut out for sitting in a classroom 7 hours a day. They really DO need someone screaming in their face to keep them on task. They need basic discipline as a basic job skill.

They ALSO need to be separated from the kids that they are preying on whether that be physically or just siphoning of resources from kids who ARE respectful and CAN follow basic rules and instructions.

I certainly agree on lower class sizes. It will certainly make things easier. But I also believe in barracks for the kids who REFUSE to cooperate as a method of REMOVING them from the general school population.

Basically, if there is an alternative form of education, a LOT of lawsuits simply go away. If the kids get their act together, they can return to the "traditional" school. Likely, some will find the discipline and exercise helpful and decide to stay.

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

86. I can't believe I'm reading this on this board.

What makes you think the NEA is "corrupt?" Jesus, you people are scaring me.

[myopinion]

110. Since when has the NEA been corrupt, has he listened to much talk radio?

It is the right wing propaganda; teachers have it easy and make to much money.

Here are the facts,
Be in at 8am to setup the day, kids in at 8:45; take the kids to lunch at 11:45, round’ up and start again at 12:15; pack them up at 3:30 and make sure all are on the way with the proper guardian, be it a bus driver or their parent- or you will be sued, or worse something terrible may happen and you will have to live with it for the rest of your life. In the middle of all this you try to help the flower of knowledge grow, “from the smallest twig to a mighty oak”, best I could come up with of learning capacity; and balance the needs of both.
Sit at your desk or go home and grade papers; prepare the next days class plan and try to be creative to hold all of their interest so they may learn, done by 8 or 10 pm.
And for all this you get exhausted and maybe 20 to 30k a year.
The Charter and private schools limit or do not even let in kids with problems, what are they to be, just forgotten?

So you say NEA is corrupt and doing nothing except sucking the fat from tax-payers like shrub and his gang of thieves that are making millions? Either you don’t know a teacher or you have your head in the sand.

[sadiesworld]

2. Vouchers=privatization=end of universal access.

[MrSoundAndVision]

3. and I hope "they" spy on us...

they need to see what they're up against, and join us!

[ms_splash]

4. The union saved my father's career

He was accused of hitting a kid (he didn't) and the administrators basically told him he was on his own. The union backed him up.

Teachers need a union.

I'm not saying you are anti-union in general, but you obviously have it in for the NEA.

I don't know what happened in Seattle or in your particular case, but you will have to convince me that the NEA and Bush are "sharing the same bed".

[JailForBush]

15. For every story about a teacher who was saved by the NEA,

there are probably a hundred teachers who were abandoned by the NEA. A few years ago, the Seattle Education Association made the papers when it went to bat for a teacher who was being tyrannized by a derelict principal at Rainier Beach High School. I later interviewed a teacher at the school and was told that some FORTY teachers had fled the school.

No wonder the union got involved with teacher #41 - if someone took them to court, they'd have to be able to say they helped SOMEONE.

[alcuno]

19. Evidence?

Feel free to provide evidence of your contention that for every one teacher "saved" by the NEA that there are probably a hundred teachers who were abandoned. Whenever a teacher is not receiving adequate service from their local, they have every right to apply to their Region for assistance.

The notion that the NEA is "saving" teachers is not accurate. They have an obligation to stand up for the rights of teachers, but it is an extremely difficult proposition to "save" a teacher who has violated the contract or acted in an unethical manner.

I don't believe that 40 teachers complained and the union did nothing. The real question is in what manner the principal violated the contract and was it brought to the attention of the union leadership in a timely manner. I've often found that teachers DON'T complain until things have reached a crisis level.

[ms_splash]

22. The "saving" part comes from emotional and legal support

[alcuno]

28. I'm glad that your dad got good representation.

That's the real purpose of organizations like the NEA; to enforce existing labor laws and uphold the contract.

[JailForBush]

25. Evidence???

"Feel free to provide evidence of your contention that for every one teacher "saved" by the NEA that there are probably a hundred teachers who were abandoned."

Do you have any idea how many teachers flee public education annually? And do you know what their biggest complaints are?

"Whenever a teacher is not receiving adequate service from their local, they have every right to apply to their Region for assistance."

What's the point? The higher you go, the greater the corruption. (I can tell you stories about the Washington Education Association!)

"The notion that the NEA is "saving" teachers is not accurate. They have an obligation to stand up for the rights of teachers, but it is an extremely difficult proposition to "save" a teacher who has violated the contract or acted in an unethical manner."

The exception is a teacher who's a union whore. They can do some outrageous things and get promoted high into the union's ranks.

"I don't believe that 40 teachers complained and the union did nothing."

I suggest you visit the Seattle Times' and Seattle Post-Intelligencer's websites and search the archives for articles about "Rainier Beach High School" and Principal "Marta Cano-Hinz."

The insanity lasted for YEARS and got so bad teachers and parents were picketing the school. I made it a campaign issue when I ran for public office in 1999. I don't have time to relate all the scandals associated with that school - and it's just one of dozens that turned into carnival rides while the union did nothing.

Incidentally, the Seattle School Board finally paid Marta Cano-Hinz a great deal of money to retire, which begs the question: Why don't the NEA or its affiliates have anything to say about derelict principals? They sold Seattle teachers down the creek when they helped the Seattle Chamber of Commerce ram a sleazy new contract down our throats, but they won't make a peep about revising the principals' contract so those terrorists can be held accountable.

Why is that?

"I've often found that teachers DON'T complain until things have reached a crisis level."

I learned that they often stop complaining after they realize the union won't lift a finger to help them. What really muzzles them is the realization that the union is in cahoots with their tormentors.

[alcuno]

30. The union has no control over the principal's contract.

And why is the union blamed when it is the administration who has the power to hire and fire? You may have a union in Washington "in cahoots" with the administration, but it's up to the membership to conduct "regime change."

[JailForBush]

35. You mean the union can't even TALK ABOUT IT???

I mean this is a SERIOUS ISSUE, pal. And please don't give me the boilerplate crap about the union's being tied. There's no law against talking about problems in education suggesting ways of fixing them. If teachers can strike for better pay, why can't they strike to motivate the powers that be to forge a new principals' contract?

"And why is the union blamed when it is the administration who has the power to hire and fire?"

Gee, excuse me - I thought the NEA had something to do with education. I thought they might have STUDIED this issue and perhaps formed some opinions about derelict principals.

"You may have a union in Washington "in cahoots" with the administration, but it's up to the membership to conduct "regime change."

Similarly, we have unions in cahoots with both George W. Bush and corrupt Democrats, and it's up to the taxpayers to conduct "regime change."

[LincolnMcGrath]

38. Yes you have to follow rules at meetings

[JailForBush]

40. The problem is union hacks who manipulate the rules in order to

manipulate or prevent discussions of serious issues.

[LincolnMcGrath]

42. Its a conspiracy!

Learn the rules and step up.

[JailForBush]

45. Art Imitating Life?

Why do you remind me of some of the union hacks I've met? Is your name David Gardiner? Rowena Wedermeyer?

[LincolnMcGrath]

48. Why are you attacking me?

[JailForBush]

50. I'm just pointing out the obvious.

Your posts have virtually no substance, just a stupid "thread killer" logo. You're acting exacly like the union hacks I've referred to in other posts. They do the exact same thing.

[LincolnMcGrath]

53. SO I know nothing,

My sig sucks, and I am I Union Hack?

[JailForBush]

56. You've offered nothing of any substance.

If you're so confident in the NEA, then please tell us the name and location of YOUR union. I'd like to check them out. If they're honest people who are really fighting for teachers, I ought to be able to find lots of information about them on the Internet, right?

By the way, my union was the Seattle Education Association. You're welcome to check them out, too.

[LincolnMcGrath]

57. Your facts are totally spanking me dude.

If my union starts fighting for teachers, then I will have a gripe.

Sorry none of us measure up to your substance standards.

[JailForBush]

58. Huh?

"If my union starts fighting for teachers, then I will have a gripe."

Uh, yeah - whatever.

[roguevalley]

78. Any time there is a school issue, this writer comes on with the Bill Gates

is in bed with Bush and the NEA thing. It doesn't pay
to discuss this really. There is only one view, his.
Frankly, I know many who were saved from crap admin. They
are the enemy. This guy has an ax to grind and no amount
of conversation makes it different.

Frankly, his story doesn't match mine. If Seattle is
fucked up, go in and fix it. Don't tell me you can't.

[JailForBush]

82. George Bush, Bill Gates and NEA are indeed part of the same team.

Saying there's only one view - "his" - is crap. The only correct view is the TRUTH.

You know many teachers who were saved from "crap admin"? I guess we'll have to take your word for it. But you might have a little more credibility if you gave us a few details. What school district are you affiliated with? What's the name of your union?

Seattle IS fucked up, and I AM doing my best to fix it. But your last comment - "Don't tell me you can't" - is absurd. I could respond in kind: Don't tell me you can't straighten out Chicago or Miami.

[ProfessorGAC]

101. I'd Like To See The Data Too!

That is a ridiculous assertion unless backed by sound data.
The Professor

[MrSoundAndVision]

5. see that's why I like this place...

people actually read, between the lines even, interpret, and kick ass. That's the way it oughtta be y'all. Nice response DUers.

[alcuno]

6. Obviously you have issues with your local.

I'm sorry that you had a bad experience in the Pacific Northwest, but that does not excuse Paige calling the NEA a "terrorist organization." It's a loose use of language and hardly befits the position of the Secretary of Education for the United States.

I would probably consider myself an "NEA operative" but I'm hardly interested in monitoring either DU or you. Your denigration of an organization based on your personal experience leaves much in question. I guess that I would have to know how you were misrepresented. Are you a former teacher who has lost a position due to some charge against you? An organization representing (and yes I know what the word representing means) over 2.5 million teachers never deserves such a slur, in spite of your own personal bias.

[LincolnMcGrath]

9. Reminds me of some of the

Posters to construction job boards. They are ALL anti union, with horror stories galore. Then along comes someone who worked with them, and reveals who actually let who down.

[JailForBush]

16. The sheer number of tyrannical principals I encountered during sixteen

years in public education speaks volumes. They obviously weren't afraid of being held accountable by the fearless NEA. In fact, I couldn't even discuss them at union meetings! I was always told it isn't polite to criticize people by name in public, or some union goon would raise his hand and move to close the discussion, etc., etc.

My "own personal bias" may not be shared by the majority of teachers - but they're extraordinarily clueless. I suspect you'd get more intelligent responses if you interviewed some of the many thousands of teachers who were driven out of public education last year alone. Ask them what the NEA did for them.

You might also want to correspond with some of the teachers who founded the National Association for the Prevention of Teacher Abuse, at http://www.endteacherabuse.org (or .com?). Obviously, they gave up on the NEA.

[LincolnMcGrath]

21. I am feelin Ya

Tie Unions with Mafia slurs
Them teachers were driven out b/c they got no love from their local
Unions serve only 1 percent
They do NOTHING for their members

Ya, I feel ya.

[alcuno]

24. You really think that teachers leave the profession because of the NEA?

Talk about clueless. Try pay, student conduct, or defamation of the profession. You need to go back and read about the purpose of the NEA. If your principals were violating the contract, you had an obligation to file grievances. If you just want to go and make noise at a union meeting, it's just noise.

[JailForBush]

33. LOL

Do I really think teachers leave education because of the NEA?

You wrote, "Talk about clueless. Try pay, student conduct, or defamation of the profession."

Thanks for supporting my claim. So what HAS the NEA done about teacher pay lately? Talk about defamation, you should read some of the crap that has appeared in Seattle's newspapers for more than a decade. Fortunately, our NEA affiliates are always ready with stinging rebuttals.

Do you get the feeling that I'm joking again? Guess what - I AM! Here's a little homework assignment for you. See what you can learn about the Seattle Education Association from a fifteen-minute Google search. First find their website and learn the names of the key members. Then see what you can learn about three or four of the top dogs. Find out what their positions on various issues are. What noble things have they done? How much do they get paid?

Good luck. I think you'll find it eerily similar to researching Dick Cheney.

"You need to go back and read about the purpose of the NEA. If your principals were violating the contract, you had an obligation to file grievances. If you just want to go and make noise at a union meeting, it's just noise."

Oh, puhLEEZ. I've filed grievances - the biggest joke in the world. If we speak out at union meetins, we're dismissed as just "making noise" or causing trouble. If we file grievances, the union just throws them in the trash and claims we didn't have a just cause.

Lying scumbags.

[LincolnMcGrath]

39. Not all grievances have merit

Some have merit, but out-weigh the good of the rest of the membership.

[JailForBush]

43. LOL

I've seen plenty of grievances with merit swept under the rug. But your comment begs another question:

Why is it that grievances that even the union thinks have merit often take months or years to resolve? I could tell you some wild stories about NEA stonewalling.

[LincolnMcGrath]

47. ITS THE ANTI-UN ION LAWS

UNIONS ARE FORCED BY LEGISLATION TO JUMP THROUGH HOOPS THAT NO OTHER CLUB, ORG, CHURCH, COMPANY HAVE TO.

Some things are better argued at different times. (contract) Some things are better argued in unison with others.

[JailForBush]

52. Not even a nice TRY!

Geez, that's one of the lamest excuses I've ever heard! "David, I'd like to do something about corrupt princpals, but our hands our tied!"

Yeah, right, I guess their tongues must be tied, too.

But you shoot yourself in the foot with your argument. Even if the NEA WAS prohibited by law from discussing serious education issues, that's more evidence that it's as useless as cow manure. I mean, what's the point of having a union that can't even discuss issues career-threatening issues?

And why isn't the NEA speaking out against these invisible laws that only you seem to know about (some sort of personal conspiracy?)?

That's just plain stupid.

[LincolnMcGrath]

55. You pointed out above that I am stupid

No sense repeating yourself

[alcuno]

85. Gotta go teach 14 year olds.

Same difference.

[roguevalley]

79. sixteen years is four short of a minimum retirement. So did you get fired

and feel the NEA didn't defend you?

[JailForBush]

88. I was one of several dozen teachers - several hundred, I think -

who got laid off, officially because the district lost $30 million and had to get rid of some staff. Incidentally, I spoke out at a union meeting in favor of campaigning to ram an independent audit down the district's throat a few years before the big layoff. The union played its usual games and sidelined my efforts by deciding that the union itself would audit the district - kind of like asking Laura Bush to investigate George Bush.

The punch line: The union didn't even go through with its phony audit.

So much for pro-active teachers unions, huh?

[sendero]

7. I don't know enough about the NEA...

... to have a strong opinion (there's a first :))

But I know this - calling them a "terrorist organization" is beyond the pale. This fucker has been listening to Limbaugh and Coulter so long he is losing his grip.

I hope the heat costs him his job. Sincerely. Anyone who would shoot off his mouth like that does not deserve that job.

[JailForBush]

14. I've generally referred to the NEA as "organized crime," or part of the

"Education Mafia." But I have no problem with calling it a terrorist organization. You might ask a Seattle teacher named Tom Hudson about that.

Oops, I forgot - he committed suicide. Never mind.

[JailForBush]

17. I have no problem calling George W. Bush and Bill Gates terrorists.

Why should I let the NEA slide?

[GreyPilgrim]

8. Support

While the NEA has problems, it is the lone voice that supports teachers. Where else can teachers turn for support? They barely get it in their communities. They sure don't get it from Washington, or anybody else. The NEA is a union to protect teachers from being insanely abused by the powers that be.

Living in Alabama, I see no such thing as conservative swing voter. I think there are many issues that need to be considered when choosing a candidate for president, and if a potential voter merely looks at the NEA and those who support it, then it's clear they aren't a "swing voter."

[alcuno]

10. Welcome to DU, GreyPilgrim

I agree with you about a conservative swing voter not existing. This is just one more act in the deliberate erosion of confidence in our public schools. What a hateful message Paige has sent to millions of children and their parents, not to mention their teachers.

[LincolnMcGrath]

11. Welcome new evilDUer!

[seabeyond]

13. i am paying for a private school

cause of what bush did to our schools in texas. if you think this conservative has the answer, i assure you, he doesnt. i am all for a grass root clearing adn restarting with the education system, and it is going to take the parents and the community. to big of a job otherwise. and it is not something to merely point to the teacher or administrator or nea..........a big part is the parents not participating and being a part. too many parents handing kids over to be raised and taught all things, things beyond abc's and 123's.....they are overwhelmed the whole system is overwhelmed.

and i am getting damn tired of paying private and outrages taxes that have gone way high, cause bush has cut off funds federally while making greater demands. so yes, he did raise my taxes.

[JailForBush]

20. Think about this:

You wrote, "I am paying for a private school cause of what bush did to our schools in texas."

King County Democrats are doing the same thing to Washington State's public schools.

"If you think this conservative has the answer, i assure you, he doesnt."

I never suggested that Bush has the answer. I was referring to moderate GRASSROOTS conservatives. The religious kooks and hyper-patriots who are obsessed with the Ten Commandments and creationism are just as bad as the liberals who vocally defend the tree branch they're standing on even as they're sawing it off.

"I am all for a grass root clearing adn restarting with the education system, and it is going to take the parents and the community. to big of a job otherwise. and it is not something to merely point to the teacher or administrator or nea..........a big part is the parents not participating and being a part."

That's true. Ultimately, there will never be reform unless and until the parents lead the charge. Teachers are certainly a lost cause.

But the best thing we can do in the meantime is learn what we can about education and spread the word. Administrators and teachers unions need to receive much more publicity. They've essentially been recruited by corporations - that's why there are so many thugs in their ranks.

The scary thing is that corporations are now recruiting teachers and parents to do their bidding. It's like something out of an Orwell novel.

[procopia]

18. I can say the NEA is a vital positive force in education

The NEA one of the few voices against vouchers, and that is why it is so demonized by the rightwing voucher advocates. The NEA and AFT finance education research and provide the only support public school teachers have. Don't believe conservatives (voucher advocates) who try to convince you that public schools are failing. Research has shown that public schools are as good or better than private schools when admittance policies and student backgrounds are considered. And don't buy the argument that US students compare poorly with other countries, because the truth is, they can't really be compared fairly. Check out Gerald Bracey's writings about international testing. Conservatives really do NOT kick our butts on education when we know the facts. NEA represented me for 28 years and I have no complaints.

[LincolnMcGrath]

23. Thank you for your service to our children

[procopia]

27. It was my pleasure

Your kind words are very much appreciated.

[JailForBush]

29. Public schools aren't failing?

"Don't believe conservatives (voucher advocates) who try to convince you that public schools are failing."

So is it just my imagination that public schools are being subjected to corporate downsizing? If is just a bad dream that literally millions of children are being punished with high-stakest tests? And is it a conservative myth that school officials' salaries keep going up, up, up while teachers are losing their shirts?

Maybe someone can tell me why the last three superintendents of Seattle's public schools had no education background. I guess this is the new business model the NEA is attacking so vocally.

Just joking. I really don't think they give a damn.

[procopia]

41. No, most of them are fine

"...public schools are being subjected to corporate downsizing...millions of children are being punished with high-stakest tests..."

These are not failings by the public schools. BTW, I hate the term "failing schools," because ultimately, the failure is on the part of a school's supporting public. US public schools aren't perfect, but they are improving. We need to stand with the NEA in support of public schools against those who wish to destroy them.

[LincolnMcGrath]

44. Thank you for shedding light on a problematic spin.

The public schools are not failing miserably, that is just spin.

[JailForBush]

49. Do I have a challenge for you...

Come to Seattle and see how many parents you can persuade to pull their kids out of private schools and send them to public schools. Then go into the black community and tell them they should rejoice because their children's schools are improving.

I'd advise you to bring a body guard.

[JailForBush]

46. Public schools are improving?

You wrote, "US public schools aren't perfect, but they are improving."

Do you mind offering some evidence - or simple logic - to support your claim? I doubt that teacher morale has ever been lower - it's not longer looked at as an attractive occupation. Superintendent salaries are going through the roof. We've got high-stakes tests on top of everything else. And you think public schools are improving???

About when did this improvement begin, and to what do you attribute it?

[procopia]

68. One indicator:

"Math SAT scores reach 36-year high"

"(AP) -- The nation's high school class of 2003 achieved the best score on the math section of the SAT exam in at least 36 years, while students' verbal scores hit a 16-year high."

"Higher SAT scores, a record number of test-takers, and more diversity add up to a brighter picture for higher education."
-- College Board President Gaston Caperton

http://www.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATION/08/26/sat.scores.ap/


Simple logic: Teachers have increasingly higher educational requirements, better tools, benefits of research, and more rigid accountability demands than ever before.

[JailForBush]

73. Liars do figure...

Test scores would seem to be the best indicator of education's success. The problem is that there's far too easy to manipulate them. You know the old adage, figures don't lie, but liars do figure.

One of these days, if I find the time, I'd like to do some research on the correlation between test schools and political election campaigns (and school levies). I've noticed that always seem to spike or hit the floor shortly before elections. The media usually say, "This proves that school reform is on track! But if this levy passes, then all out hard work will be set back several years!"

Conversely, they sometimes say, "The students scored poorly because our schools JUST DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY!"

"Simple logic: Teachers have increasingly higher educational requirements, better tools, benefits of research, and more rigid accountability demands than ever before."

Yes, that logic is indeed "simple." How can teachers have higher educational requirements when many districts have resorted to LOWERING their standards simply to get enough bodies in classrooms? And what are these "better tools" you refer to. I thought decades-old textbooks were public education's premier icon. Or is it the newer corporate textbooks that are riddled with errors and sometimes even sneak in a little creationism. (I spotted an error myself one day. It was a picture of an "African" lemur. In fact, lemurs live on the island of Madagascar, not Africa.)

PuhLEEZ tell me you're joking when you credit "rigid accountability standards" with rising test scores! This is the biggest joke of all.

To put it in perspective, I wish someone could explain to me how education can be improving when principals have greater freedom to hire their friends, cronies and relatives, and teachers have never spent so much time jumping through carnival hoops.

I've sat through endless staff meetings where teaches spent HOURS hammering out a "vision statement" for their schools, only to be told to craft a new vision statement the next year. Yes, I can see how such activities might improve education.

Wait a minute, I almost forgot about the age discrimination that's such a powerful symbol of union neglect. I have nothing against young teachers, but how can test scores be rising when so many veterans have been given the boot, many of them replaced by first-year teachers?

In summary, test scores could indeed be rising, depending on how tests are administered and graded (and how the grades are interpreted and reported). But America's students are not getting a better education.

And that's the bottom line.

[ms_splash]

26. What's your suggested alternative?

No union for teachers?
A better unions for teachers?

[JailForBush]

34. A REAL Union for Teachers!

The NEA should be reformed or destroyed, period.

And it would take an extraordinary effort to reform it.

[stanwyck]

31. I disagree with your characterization

of the NEA. My parents, now retired, taught collectively for over 60 years in the public schools of Illinois. They were NEA members. My sister is a current member. Their opinion of the union is completely different than yours. The NEA has served them well as they have served their respective schools and communities well. My parents and sister have excellent retirement and healthcare benefits due to the NEA. We should all be as well represented.

[JailForBush]

36. If they taught for 60 years, then they presumably started 30 years or more

ago - before the NEA became a total sellout. If they started teaching today, I think they'd have a vastly different opinion.

[LincolnMcGrath]

37. Thank them from me

and apologize if they were one of my teachers. lol :spank:

[ParanoidPat]

32. I think the real question is how much support will that diss.....

.....cost them? :evilgrin:

"NEA operatives monitoring DU"??? :eyes:

[donco6]

51. I think our support of NEA gains us many votes,

and Paige's comments will help galvanize even more support.

David, your crappy experience with your teaching and public service career is unfortunate. But it's just one experience. The picture you're painting of the entire profession is sadly inaccurate.

[JailForBush]

54. Selling out the kids for votes?

Even if it did gain more votes (which I highly doubt), do liberals really want to continue doing what they've done for the last generation - selling out kids for thirty pieces of silver?

And your comment about my experience is ridiculous. There are literally thousands of teachers who are ground up by the system annually. What makes me special is the fact that I decided to go public. In sixteen years in education, I only met a handful of teachers who spoke out publicly - and the system came down on them brutally.

[donco6]

59. Yes, David, that's exactly what I want to do

I want to sell out our kids for money. Yes, that's me, a money-lusting, child-selling, NEA operative, straight out of the secret wing in Langley.

Brother.

:eyes:

[JailForBush]

61. Oh, I remember you from the Education forum.

No big surprises on this thread.

[donco6]

64. Yeah, none here either.

Still as broad-brush as ever.

Did you ever consider, David, that some of the lack of support in your career and in your inept runs for public service were due more to your tendency to exaggerate than to the existence of "union thugs?" It's a little hard to support grievances from someone you can't really trust to tell the truth.

[JailForBush]

66. Advice: Try something new

"Did you ever consider, David, that some of the lack of support in your career and in your inept runs for public service were due more to your tendency to exaggerate than to the existence of "union thugs?" It's a little hard to support grievances from someone you can't really trust to tell the truth."

That's another lame propaganda trick. Don't fix anything - shoot the messenger!

But here are some comments on your obviously contrived question:

1. I'm not the only Seattle teacher who wasn't supported by the union.

2. My runs for public office were hardly inept. I never got more than 10% of the vote. If you think you can do better in King County with no money or political connections, lead the way. (Have you ever run for office even?) But I did far better than many other unknowns.

3. Actually, one of my better known qualities is my truthfulness. The corporate media have variously ignored and insulted me, but they've NEVER attacked my credibility. As a matter of fact, no has been as on top of the issues as I was. In 1999, I was probably the first candidate in Seattle history to make derelict school officials a campaign issue. To my amazement, Garfield High School Principal Al Jones blew up in the establishment's face right in the middle of my campaign!

You can easily learn about the Al Jones story through Google. You know, there's really nothing wrong with seeking out the truth.

[roguevalley]

80. So basically you were fired.

[JailForBush]

90. No, I've never been fired in my life.

Being fired wouldn't necessarily be an indictment, because the Education Mafia plays all sorts of games. But the fact that I was never fired is pretty remarkable, considering the intensity of my whistle-blowing over a period of several years. The bastards did screw me in many different ways - while my lard-assed union watched from the sidelines - but they never dated to fire me.

I was simply one of many teachers who were layed off after the school board lost more than $30 million. Frankly, I think the entire incident was stated, but that's another story.

[LincolnMcGrath]

62. Least he didn't slam your sig line!

:eyes:

[donco6]

65. It's coming.

Just wait.

[Rebel_with_a_cause]

87. The NEA is one of the top contributors to the democratic party

That's why the GOP is after them.

Undermining unions is their business. Unions give to the democratic party.

[JailForBush]

91. Take a closer look...

The NEA gives to Democrats alright - CORRUPT Democrats. You should see some of the scum they've helped get elected here in Washington State.

[arewethereyet]

60. excellent post and brave

I know lots of teachers including my step-mom, none of them have any use for the NEA. Of course thats not a universal sentiment among teachers but it does make me think. I know that they've done little or nothing around here from asking questions.

They preach spend more money and its been done to zero effect, actually negative zero effect. People are sick to death of lousy schools and they question why county schools do well with less money amd they're filanny demanding action and now that they have, some progress has occurred. But it took a proverbial gun to the head to do it and it took working against the NEA precepts to do it.

Can it matter ? I'm not sure but I will not rule it out.

[JailForBush]

63. I think the general sentiment among Seattle teachers is, "What else

have we got?"

The funny thing is that whenever I bash the NEA, people come out of the woodwork to attack me and defend the NEA. But when I ask them if they've ever worked in public education, many answer NO. Of course, I have no way of knowing if those who answer YES are teling the truth, but they never accept my challenge to identify their union.

What are they afraid of - the possibility that I might discover the truth and publicize it?

[arewethereyet]

67. I hear the same sentiment around here in Richmond VA

and I've gotten a similar response from my cousin in the Seattle area.

Around here they tried a REA for a while but it became worse than NEA so now many just avoid it altogether.

[JailForBush]

69. Richmond? Have I got a story for you!

Ask your friends if they remember a former superintendent named Al Jones. He's the derelict I mentioned in one of my posts. He was under fire for having sex with a student(s). (I think he was giving them better grades in exchange for sex.) It was then revealed that he was asking the school nurse about female students' sexual activities, was an alcoholic, was running from the IRS and on and on.

Then it was revealed that he had been FIRED from his position in Richmond, Virginia. I believe he was doing something illegal with the superintendent of schools in D.C., who was also fired. It also came out that the Seattle School Board knew he had been fired. But it gets even better.

During the ensuing media firestorm, I began doing my own research, and I met Seattle teachers who stated very matter of factly that Al Jones was an alcoholic who chased students years ago. That's right, Al Jones started out as a teacher in Seattle! In fact, he married a Garfield High School student on the last day of the school year - the very same year he was teaching at Garfield.

That's just half the Al Jones story, which also overlaps with Tom Hudson, the teacher who committed suicide, thanks to all the help he got from Seattle's "teachers union."

You can read one of several articles I put online at
http://www.geobop.com/education/People/Admin/Principals/Al_Jones/Richmond.htm

I'd sure like to know where Al Jones is now. He's probably a school superintendent in some other state.

[arewethereyet]

71. almost reminissiant or the RCC pedophyle priest merry-go-round

or the terrible docs who just roam around looking for new victims while the AMA looks the other way. I'm sensing a pattern here.

Name's familiar (Jones) but we have som many scandals its hard to keep up ! I think Court tv is going to devote all of 2005 to legal shenanigans of our city council.

[JailForBush]

74. Sigh.

Yes, that's one of the biggest problems we face. Corruption has become so rampant, it's impossible to even document all the scandals, let alone bring even a fraction of the crooks to justice.

That's why I advocate extreme - even brutal - punishment for people who abuse positions of authority in screwing the public, especially children. To put it in perspective, a Seattle-area woman was sentenced to life in prison under our three-strikes-and-you're-out law for stealing less than $1,000.

The penalty that suggests for a public official or teachers union thug who effectively robs thousands of people of millions of dollars and screws their children in the process is truly terrible - but righteous.

If I could be dictator for the day, I guarantee I could - and would - put a dent in corporate crime.

[arewethereyet]

75. amen to that

[Jax]

81. You talk like an Evergreen Freedom Foundation member

:puke:

Jax

[JailForBush]

83. Evergreen Freedom Foundation? Don't make me laugh!

The Evergreen Freedom Foundation is a conservative think tank that's just as disgusting as the NEA. In fact, I did give the folks at EFF a little assistance in fighting the Washington and Seattle education associations. After all, they're my enemy, too.

But here's where it gets interesting. There's a very sleazy Seattle attorney named Judith Lonnquist who served as Campaign Treasurer for Washington's Superintendent of Public Instruction three elections in a row. Bergeson is widely regarded as a liberal, and Lonnquist was associated with George McGovern years ago.

So I thought the Evergreen Freedom Foundation would be thrilled with the dirt I dug up on Lonnquist and Bergeson - because Lonnquist is also the attorney who was defending the WEA from the EFF!

But they never gave me the time of day. I couldn't figure out why the EFF would want to protect a sleazy liberal attorney like Lonnquist until I did more research and discovered that Terry Bergeson's first political campaign was bankrolled by Don Nielsen's - one of Seattle's most powerful and disgusting right-wingers.

If you do your homework, you'll discover what I learned long ago - that the Evergreen Freedom Foundation and National Education Association are about as different as Republicans and Democrats. They stage some very public fights, but they share the same bed behind the scenes.

[Bridget Burke]

77. Only a few...

There are always a few folks on endless vendettas.

[Q]

84. How many votes will supporting Bush* cost us?

- I think the NEA is the least of our worries. Right now you have Tom Dashcle and other Democrats getting down on their knees to praise bush* and his 'wars'.

[PVnRT]

89. The fact that you agree with Rod Paige

in that the NEA is a "terrorist organization" leads me to believe, correctly, that the rest of your feelings on the matter are right-wing inspired garbage.

Yeah, unions are bad. Any more DLC lines you want to shove down our throats?

[JailForBush]

92. I'm so impressed with your arrogance.

"The fact that you agree with Rod Paige in that the NEA is a "terrorist organization" leads me to believe, correctly<snip>

LOL. You don't have a clue what you're talking about.

"the rest of your feelings on the matter are right-wing inspired garbage."

Right, only a right-winger could be horrified by bloated bureaucracies, carpetbagging superintendents, teachers unions that stab teachers in the back and governors who pubicly talk about "punishing children" with high-stakes tests.

"Yeah, unions are bad. Any more DLC lines you want to shove down our throats?"

Please show me where I said unions are bad. I think most unions have been corrupted, and the NEA is a prominent example.

YOU represent the DLC, not I.

[PVnRT]

93. Do you know what YOU'RE talking about?

My mom has been an NEA member for 27 years, and never had a problem. Most every teacher I ever had in school didn't have a problem with the NEA.

Yet you take whatever bad experience you had with them and generalize it to the entire union. That is ridiculous logic to say the least. You have made claims all over this thread and not offered one shred of evidence, only the same old talking points I hear from Republican/DLC politicians who want to destroy the NEA and Dept. of Education.

Since when are governors NEA members? I have never ONCE heard that the NEA's position on standardized testing is that it's great; the opposite is true, in fact. Ditto with superintendants and bureacracies - these aren't union members.

Whatever, though, go ahead and keep blaming the unions for all that's wrong with America. After all, school boards and politicians NEVER do anything wrong.

And exactly HOW were you and others "not supported" by the union? I would love to hear this.

[JailForBush]

94. Put your money where your mouth is.

"My mom has been an NEA member for 27 years, and never had a problem. Most every teacher I ever had in school didn't have a problem with the NEA."

OK, kindly tell us what school district you're talking about. And your comment about "most every teacher I ever had in school" sounds a little suspicious. Combined with the fact that you never said you're a teacher, it sounds like you've never worked in the classroom.

So how the Hell would you know whether the teachers you "had" were supported by the NEA? Did they all tell their classes, "Hey, class, guess what - we've never had a problem with the NEA!"

Reality Check: Teachers very seldom talk about their union to the public. Hell, they don't even discuss it among themselves that much.

"Yet you take whatever bad experience you had with them and generalize it to the entire union."

Baloney. I talk about my bad experiences AND the bad experiences of thousands of other teachers in Seattle and across America. I've heard the complaints at teachers union meetings. Visit http://www.endteacherabuse.org and ask them why they felt compelled to start their own organization to protect teachers.

"You have made claims all over this thread and not offered one shred of evidence..."

LOL! My claim that thousands of teachers leave public education or that principals have become miniature Roman dictators is a little hard to prove, isn't it?

"only the same old talking points I hear from Republican/DLC politicians who want to destroy the NEA and Dept. of Education."

The DLC wants to destroy the NEA??? I think you've got your head screwed on backwards.

"Since when are governors NEA members?"

Who said governors are NEA members???

"I have never ONCE heard that the NEA's position on standardized testing is that it's great; the opposite is true, in fact."

That's absolutely true. The NEA blows a lot of hot air about opposing high-stakes tests. Actually doing something about them is another matter. It's called tokenism.

"Ditto with superintendants and bureacracies - these aren't union members."

Parents and children aren't union members, either, yet the NEA claims to care about them. And if the NEA is somehow involved with education (insert laughter), shouldn't it have an opinion about derelict school officials and bureaucracies? I mean, if the NEA can't lobby the government to pass legislation to fix these problems, then what's the use of having a union in the first place?

"Whatever, though, go ahead and keep blaming the unions for all that's wrong with America."

Honestly, you're getting carried away with your wild exaggerations. Are you foaming at the mouth?

"After all, school boards and politicians NEVER do anything wrong."

Are you kidding? Most school boards and politicians are corrupt! After all, they don't have to worry about the NEA blowing the whistle on them.

"And exactly HOW were you and others 'not supported' by the union? I would love to hear this."

Gee, let me count the way:

1. The NEA has apparently developed a phobia regarding grievances. It doesn't like to deal with them.

2. When it does support a teachers' grievance, it typically takes months or years to process it.

3. The NEA isn't pro-active. It may occasionally rescue a teacher from a derelict principal, but the principal is seldom, if ever, punished or restricted from attacking other teachers.

4. What has the NEA done to stop high-stakes tests, one of education's greatest evils? If teachers can strike for higher salaries, why can't the NEA call a nationwide strike against high-stakes tests and corporate standards?

5. Why doesn't the NEA defend teachers from libelous media? I mean, they speak out now and then on their website and in their publications, but they spend most of the time hiding in their offices. And don't tell me the media won't print they editorials. If the media did slam the door in the union's face, the union could and should report it to the public - "We submitted the following editorials to the Seattle Times, but they refused to print it."

In fact, the NEA seldom, if ever, makes that claim because it isn't interested in defending teachers in the media to begin with.

[PVnRT]

98. *yawn*

OK, kindly tell us what school district you're talking about.

Southwest Parke Community School District, Parke County, Indiana.

And your comment about "most every teacher I ever had in school" sounds a little suspicious. Combined with the fact that you never said you're a teacher, it sounds like you've never worked in the classroom.

So how the Hell would you know whether the teachers you "had" were supported by the NEA? Did they all tell their classes, "Hey, class, guess what - we've never had a problem with the NEA!"

Having been involved in lots of extracurricular academic activities, I got a chance to actually get to know teachers outside of class. I would bring the subject up, since my mom is a teacher. And exactly what does it matter if I've never been in the classroom? Are we going to start applying that rule now? You can only have an opinion on something you're directly involved with?

LOL! My claim that thousands of teachers leave public education or that principals have become miniature Roman dictators is a little hard to prove, isn't it?

What the hell do principals have to do with this? They are administration, not teachers.

Who said governors are NEA members???

You did, unless you actually want to explain this statement: governors who pubicly talk about "punishing children" with high-stakes tests. That's in post #93, by the way.

You seem to enjoy throwing in a whole bunch of shit that is not germane to a discussion of the NEA itself. Why is that? Is your only hope to obfuscate the issue?

That's absolutely true. The NEA blows a lot of hot air about opposing high-stakes tests. Actually doing something about them is another matter. It's called tokenism.

I guess lobbying efforts are "tokenism." What would you have them do? Strike, which is conveniently outlawed by most of their contracts? Hmmmmm? Got a solution or just a laundry list of whining?

Are you kidding? Most school boards and politicians are corrupt! After all, they don't have to worry about the NEA blowing the whistle on them.

First of all, know what sarcasm is? Look into it.

Second, once again, when you are not allowed to strike, you have very little bargaining power. So what else are they supposed to do? If school boards are corrupt, are you trying to run for one?

The NEA has apparently developed a phobia regarding grievances. It doesn't like to deal with them.

This is an opinion, not a fact. Maybe the reps in your area are inefficient assholes who do not reflect the union as a whole. I guess that didn't enter into your thinking, though, did it?

What has the NEA done to stop high-stakes tests, one of education's greatest evils? If teachers can strike for higher salaries, why can't the NEA call a nationwide strike against high-stakes tests and corporate standards?

If a school district's contract forbids striking, how do they strike, again? Sorry, most people are not going to risk their jobs like that, especially in Bush's economy.

Your problem seems to be with administrators and school boards, and rightfully so. Why, then, do you waste your energy attacking the one organization in this country that actually looks out for the welfare of teachers? I'm having a hard time thinking that you don't have another agenda here.

[JailForBush]

102. Wow

Congratulations, you're the first person on this thread to volunteer the name of your school district! I haven't had a chance to check out Indiana's Southwest Parke Community School District yet, but it sounds like it's probably relatively small. Of course, the worst corruption is generally found in the bigger school districts. Nevertheless, all school districts are being hammered by high-stakes tests and other corporate agendas, and you'd be amazed how many corrupt administrators sneak into even the tiniest districts.

"Having been involved in lots of extracurricular academic activities, I got a chance to actually get to know teachers outside of class. I would bring the subject up, since my mom is a teacher."

You liked to talk to teachers about their union? Sheez, I don't even know many adults who would talk about that.

"And exactly what does it matter if I've never been in the classroom? Are we going to start applying that rule now? You can only have an opinion on something you're directly involved with?"

Not at all. I have opinions about things I've never been involved with. Still, it's hard to understand how anyone could have a clue about a union as secretive and misleading as the NEA if they haven't even been a member.

"What the hell do principals have to do with this? They are administration, not teachers."

Here we go again. Unless you know something I don't, principals have a lot to do with education. In fact, I'd wager that more than 99% of America's teachers work under principals. Therefore, the NEA ought to care about how principals treat teachers. And don't give this baloney about the NEA being powerless to do anything about derelict principals. I expose the bastards on my website, so why can't the NEA help blow the whistle and campaign for legislation to reign them in?

ME: "Who said governors are NEA members???"

YOU: "You did, unless you actually want to explain this statement: governors who pubicly talk about "punishing children" with high-stakes tests. That's in post #93, by the way."

There's nothing in that post that says governors are NEA members. I stated a simple fact: Governors (notably Washington's Gary Locke) have publicly talked about "punishing" students. I think that's an outrageous statement and an outrageous attitude. In fact, it's far worse than the comment that started this thread - Rod Paige's quip about the NEA being a terrorist organization. I think the NEA can defend itself, but when a governor rants about "punishing" children and America's bleeding heart liberals don't even cry foul, you have to wonder if there are really any adults left in America at all.

"You seem to enjoy throwing in a whole bunch of shit that is not germane to a discussion of the NEA itself. Why is that? Is your only hope to obfuscate the issue?"

Do you even know what you're talking about? The NEA is involved with EDUCATION and is supposed to protect teachers. PRINCIPALS are a major fixture in EDUCATION and are notorious for attacking TEACHERS. GOVERNORS often exploit EDUCATION. How the Hell is the NEA supposed to protect teachers if it can't even mention principals and politicians? That's delusional.

"I guess lobbying efforts are 'tokenism.' What would you have them do? Strike, which is conveniently outlawed by most of their contracts? Hmmmmm? Got a solution or just a laundry list of whining?"

Teachers in Washington State are on the verge of losing their right to strike. Fortunately, the NEA's waging a vigorous campaign to protect that right. Just joking! I haven't heard boo from the NEA.

"Second, once again, when you are not allowed to strike, you have very little bargaining power. So what else are they supposed to do? If school boards are corrupt, are you trying to run for one?"

I have indeed. And if you've lost the right to strike, that's evidence that your union isn't working for you. Or would you applaud unions in general if all workers suddenly lost their right to strike?

"This is an opinion, not a fact. Maybe the reps in your area are inefficient assholes who do not reflect the union as a whole. I guess that didn't enter into your thinking, though, did it?"

Congratulations again! NEA officials are indeed inefficient assholes - but they're hardly unique.

"If a school district's contract forbids striking, how do they strike, again? Sorry, most people are not going to risk their jobs like that, especially in Bush's economy."

Wow, the NEA has really painted you into a corner, hasn't it? You don't even have a right to strike, which means your dependent on NEA tokenism and "collective groveling." No wonder teaching has become such a dismal profession.

"Your problem seems to be with administrators and school boards, and rightfully so. Why, then, do you waste your energy attacking the one organization in this country that actually looks out for the welfare of teachers? I'm having a hard time thinking that you don't have another agenda here."

Are you allergic to logic? I blast the NEA precisely because it doesn't protect teachers from derelict administrators and school boards. DUH...

[throwthebumsout]

109. BINGO!

"I'm having a hard time thinking that you don't have another agenda here."

BINGO! Methinks you've hit the nail on the head.

[throwthebumsout]

95. What a complete crock

You clearly know absolutely nothing about the NEA, and the fine work they do. What exactly are you doing at DU? It seems you've spent a lot of time reading right wing regurgitations about the big bad evil NEA. Perhaps you should research what they really stand for by visiting their website, or talking to a few teachers.

[JailForBush]

96. Right back at you!

"Perhaps you should research what they really stand for by visiting their website, or talking to a few teachers."

1. Gee, do you really think the NEA is going to air its dirty laundry on its website?

2. I WORKED in the classsroom for more than a decade and attended many union meetings. Very few Seattle teachers praise the NEA. Many - I think the majority - think it's better than having no union at all, just like many people figure voting for corrupt Democrats is better than voting for Republicans.

By the way, I worked for the Seattle School District and was misrepresented by the Seattle Education Association. Please tell us the name of YOUR school district and union. Maybe then we could believe you - even if you didn't have much of any substance to say.

[throwthebumsout]

97. Here's what I have to say

What I have to say is this: you'd be a lot more likely to make anyone want to listen to you, or take you seriously, if your hysteria and paranoia didn't positively LEAP off the page. I perused your little website, and what struck me first of all was the name-calling. You call people "sleazy" and "lunatics," and a variety of other things. The other thing I noticed right away were all the classic signs of a consipiracy theorist. Everyone is against you, and everyone is corrupt, blah, blah, blah.

I suggest that the reason no one wants to listen to you, and the reason nobody wants to elect you, is that you're pretty unlikeable. And gee, I've only known you for 5 minutes.

[JailForBush]

99. Name calling? Conspiracy theorist?

"What I have to say is this:<snip>

I noticed that what you have to say doesn't include the name of your school district or teachers union. Is that a source of embarrassment? Are you afraid that if I check out your school district I might discover that things aren't as nice as you say they are?

"You'd be a lot more likely to make anyone want to listen to you, or take you seriously, if your hysteria and paranoia didn't positively LEAP off the page."

Hmmmm... You might want to take a nap before you contribute to this thread. Frankly, I think you sound a little hysterical.

"I perused your little website, and what struck me first of all was the name-calling. You call people 'sleazy' and 'lunatics,' and a variety of other things."

If that bothers you, then you might not want to hang out on DU. You wouldn't believe some of the names DU'ers call George Bush, Republicans, media whores, corporations, Ralph Nader and even corrupt Democrats!

"The other thing I noticed right away were all the classic signs of a consipiracy theorist. Everyone is against you, and everyone is corrupt, blah, blah, blah."

OK, let's do a quick survey of some of the major institutions that are FOR me - and the public in general.

1. The Executive Branch - Oops, that's headed by George W. Bush.
2. The Legislative Branch - Hmmmmm... Isn't that controlled by Republicans?
3. The Supremes (Court) - LOL
4. The Corporate Media - (Well, I'll be the folks at the Seattle Times would enjoy your little rant.)
5. Corporations

Nope, none of those people are against us!

"I suggest that the reason no one wants to listen to you, and the reason nobody wants to elect you, is that you're pretty unlikeable. And gee, I've only known you for 5 minutes."

Actually, some people do listen to me - mostly more intelligent people who aren't strongly partisan. And there are literally thousands of people who have voted for me, so you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

But, as you you said, you've only known me for five minutes.

[throwthebumsout]

108. Five minutes too long

Five minutes of my life I'll never get back.
Five minutes too long.
I could have had a V-8.

[ProfessorGAC]

100. Very Few To None

The people who hate the teachers and their union are about as likely to vote Democratic as i am to vote for a ultraconservative Republican.

So, even if we shed that relationship, it would be a meaningless gesture. Not one person who was going to vote for Bush will do so because of the NEA's relationship with the Dems.

Sorry, but disassociation is a rotten political strategy.
The Professor

[JailForBush]

103. And what are the names of your school district and teachers union? N/T

[PVnRT]

104. You seem to harp on this point

Should we give you our social security numbers as well, so you can perform background checks?

[JailForBush]

106. Don't be stupid.

Only a fool would advertise his social security number on a chatboard.

Naming your school district is another matter entirely. If your district only employs six people, then it might not be hard to guess which of those six is you. But if it employs several dozen teachers, three or four principals and 200 downtown administrators, you're probably safe.

[JanMichael]

105. Sour grapes are rarely good for enticing awareness.

Or action. Or sympathy.

Vouchers? NO.

Ciao.

[JailForBush]

107. Dismissing the truth as "sour grapes" is a poor way to fix anything. N/T