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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 12:17 PM
Original message
AWOL Story Not Going Away
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. This article would be a lot better...
If it didn't have factual mistakes:

"As the son of a senator..." Chimpy was the son of a congressman.

"It is also difficult to believe that he got into Harvard Law School based on his stellar C’s at Yale." He didn't--Chimpy went to the Business School; BTW, the U of Texas law school turned him down (gutsy!) with the (approximate) observation, "While we are sure that this young man has a future somewhere, it is not in the University of Texas law school."

Thing is, obvious errors like this discredit the whole article. MJ needs to keep their ducks lined up... heh heh, Crashcart/Scalia joke there somewhere.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I believe his grandfather was a senator, though
The Hitler-enabler Prescott Bush.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
23. You are wrong on several points
Here are the facts

1) George W. Bush's dad was a Senator from Texas

2) He went to Yale for his undergrad, after going AWOL in the Alabama ANG, he went to Harvard for his MBA

Please don't try to re-write history. Especially here.

And I respectfully request that you do your homework!!!!
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Hand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Nope, I'm right on both points...
Read my post again. I'm not the one rewriting history.
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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-24-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Actually, He Was The Son Of A Representative
If you serve in the Senate you are a Senator.

If you serve in the House you are a Representative.

The term Congressman would apply to both houses.

This is a common mistake made here and elsewhere that needs to be corrected.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Someone who knew him in the Guard.
"A little more than a year ago, retired Col. William Campenni started complaining to his wife, Kathleen, about what he felt was misinformation about the Air National Guard, specifically about what the Air National Guard did during the Vietnam War."



This local, weekly paper did an article on someone who knew Bush in the Guard. The problem is that the dates aren't specified.

http://www.observernews.com/stories/current/news/022004/guard.shtml
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. I sort of wish it would go away...here's why...
This is being over-sensationalized big time...I'm certainly not here to defend Bush - but when I juxtapose the known facts in this case with my real-life experiences...I say "Big Whoop!"

When I was in college - my roomate was in the Navy reserves...sometimes he would skip his meeting...and be listed "AWOL." - So what! He would make it up next time...

I think at some point - after graduation - amidst moving - he quit going to reserves altogether...and again was "AWOL"...they caught up with him a few years later...they wanted him to re-pay some of the money he recived...he paid it - Honorable Discharge! So "Honorable" part doesn't mean much...

Same with "AWOL" - may sound "dramatic" - but it's more like an elementary school teacher reporting you as "absent".

I think this story will not give us much traction - and we risk sounding a bit whinny...the point has been made...Face it - Bush served - and served as honorably as the next guy...

But - If Bush wants to keep this story alive...so be it...he could have saved face by just ignoring Kerry and his challenges...instead he sent McClelan out there to talk about pay stubs!
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. hexola
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 01:46 PM by seabeyond
i totally agree big whoop.........as you say friend missing a weekend and making it up. i think most all of us assumed that is what happened and put it out just as that. it was the lieing adn the denying that got bush in trouble. what made it a big whoop. if that is all it is and he had said ya you know, people didnt take real serious and we would miss a weekend, a month adn then make up the four five months at end of year to get points. that would have been end of story. still if he were to say that, that would be end of story. but dont tell me he was in alabama when he wasnt, that is lieing, and i am not honoring his lie

could have been a big whoop for him, he chose and chooses to make and create the big deal

not to mention possible illegal action have learned since, like having his records cleansed. he isnt allowed. against law. and that happened just prior to running, so not 30 years ago

respectfully, grin
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It was more than missing a few weekends
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 03:02 PM by 9215
Bush missed his physical and lost his flight status. This is a big deal and a couple of people familiar with this say it could be a court martial offense. When you combine that with the fact that GW's friend and Saudi Bin Laden point man in the US Jim Bath also missed his physical in the same month at the same base things get odder still. Bush told a reporter that Bath is "alot of fun". Also Bush's PULL service is odd, along with his unsigned discharge papers, torn documents, probable assignment to a detention center in Colorado, jumping to the head of the line for entry into the National Guard, going AWOL five days before drug testing was implemented......

As Ari Flyshit said about "patterns of behavior"....they are important when assessing the situation.
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Ohhh Court Martial!
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 03:18 PM by hexola
Again - the semantics of this sound so "scary" They tried to take my roomate for Court Martial too...showed up at my door...big deal.

We won on this one - get on with it...!

What is it that you hope to find or prove? - we've gotten as much damage off this as we will ever get...true or not!!!
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Get on with What?
Do what? Go where? Why are you trying to sidetrack this discussion?

Oh yea, now we have to worry about appearing "whiny" or "grasping". The son-of-bitch never has answered the questions about his past. The son-of-bitch should have had his feet held to fire 4 years ago.

NO!This story will not and should not die until the son-of-bitch answers the questions.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. hee, hee. I likes
nabbin' freeps. :bounce:
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Do you have proof that
which your friend tells you is indeed the truth? As a long time service member I can tell you from first hand experience that AOL/AWOL is not a Whoop. Whatever Whoop means.

180
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Good point
nice catch. :thumbsup:
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. You need to keep it alive because Bush has to spend time
defending a very vague service record. This is what republican campaign tactics is all about..It doesn't matter if it is true, make the Candidate deny it isn't true.
If Bush has to answer the AWOL question, and the Lied to Americans question, and the Let 9/11 happen question/ the stonewalling 9/11 inquiry question, the halliburton no-bid contract question etc. etc. etc..they can't focus on their attacks and are constatnly on the defensive.
Why do you think they tried to question Kerry's patriotism? They can't run on Bush* record, he'd be impeached!
Why not fight their fight?
Keep the AWOL question out there. True or not.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Remember this? MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Also a LIE.
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 07:03 PM by Stephanie
I promise to bust bush on every LIE he tells, large or small, whether it's about his bogus poetry or the nonexistent WMDs. Every LIE he tells, the public needs to know about it.

He has lied consistently about his Guard service. He lied aobut it just the other day, in the Russert interview on MTP. And so it is our patriotic duty to call him on it, to out him as the FRAUD IN CHIEF.

Mr. Bush brought the issue of his Guard service to the fore when he pranced on the deck of the Lincoln in that flight suit.

=================================================
Bush's denial that the WH placed the banner on the carrier:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/10/20031028-2.html

Q Mr. President, if I may take you back to May 1st when you stood on the USS Lincoln under a huge banner that said, "Mission Accomplished." At that time you declared major combat operations were over, but since that time there have been over 1,000 wounded, many of them amputees who are recovering at Walter Reed, 217 killed in action since that date. Will you acknowledge now that you were premature in making those remarks?

THE PRESIDENT: Nora, I think you ought to look at my speech. I said, Iraq is a dangerous place and we've still got hard work to do, there's still more to be done. And we had just come off a very successful military operation. I was there to thank the troops.

The "Mission Accomplished" sign, of course, was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their mission was accomplished. I know it was attributed some how to some ingenious advance man from my staff -- they weren't that ingenious, by the way. But my statement was a clear statement, basically recognizing that this phase of the war for Iraq was over and there was a lot of dangerous work. And it's proved to be right, it is dangerous in Iraq. It's dangerous in Iraq because there are people who can't stand the thought of a free and peaceful Iraq. It is dangerous in Iraq because there are some who believe that we're soft, that the will of the United States can be shaken by suiciders -- and suiciders who are willing to drive up to a Red Cross center, a center of international help and aid and comfort, and just kill.


====================================================

The Banner, hung (and designed? and produced?) by the USS Lincoln crew, according to Bush. Looks suspiciously similar to backdrops we see at every Bush speech:



====================================================

Bush handlers stage manage every aspect of his appearances, including this one:

Keepers of Bush image lift stagecraft to new heights
By Elisabeth Bumiller
New York Times
Friday, May 16, 2003 Posted: 7:08 AM EDT (1108 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/16/nyt.bumiller/

The president's image makers, Mr. Bartlett said, work within a budget for White House travel and events allotted by Congress, which for fiscal 2003 was $3.7 million. He said he did not know the specific cost of staging Mr. Bush's Sept. 11 anniversary speech, or what the White House was charged for the lights. A spokeswoman at the headquarters of Musco Lighting in Oskaloosa, Iowa, said the company did not disclose the prices it charged clients.

<snip>

The most elaborate — and criticized — White House event so far was Mr. Bush's speech aboard the Abraham Lincoln announcing the end of major combat in Iraq. White House officials say that a variety of people, including the president, came up with the idea, and that Mr. Sforza embedded himself on the carrier to make preparations days before Mr. Bush's landing in a flight suit and his early evening speech.

Media strategists noted afterward that Mr. Sforza and his aides had choreographed every aspect of the event, even down to the members of the Lincoln crew arrayed in coordinated shirt colors over Mr. Bush's right shoulder and the "Mission Accomplished" banner placed to perfectly capture the president and the celebratory two words in a single shot. The speech was specifically timed for what image makers call "magic hour light," which cast a golden glow on Mr. Bush.

"If you looked at the TV picture, you saw there was flattering light on his left cheek and slight shadowing on his right," Mr. King said. "It looked great." <more>


====================================================

Bush handlers admit that the event was SO stage-managed that the ship had to slow down so San Diego would not be visible to the cameras


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A22502-2003May6?language=printer

Explanation for Bush's Carrier Landing Altered
By Dana Milbank
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, May 7, 2003; Page A20

President Bush chose to make a jet landing on an aircraft carrier last week even after he was told he could easily reach the ship by helicopter, the White House said yesterday, changing the explanation it gave for Bush's "Top Gun" style event.

Bush's televised landing on the USS Abraham Lincoln, for which the president wore a flight suit and a helmet and took underwater survival training in the White House swimming pool, was the dramatic start to a visit to the carrier that included an air show and a televised speech to the nation. In his address, the president declared victory in Iraq in front of cheering sailors and a banner proclaiming "Mission Accomplished."

White House officials had said, both before and after Bush's landing in a Navy S-3B Viking jet, that he took the plane solely to avoid inconveniencing the sailors, who were returning home after a deployment of nearly 10 months. The officials said that Bush decided not to wait until the ship was in helicopter range to avoid delaying the troops' homecoming.

But instead of the carrier being hundreds of miles offshore, as aides had said it would be, the Lincoln was only about 30 miles from the coast when Bush made his "tail-hook" landing, in which the jet was stopped by cables on deck. Navy officers slowed and turned the ship when land became visible.


====================================================

An oddly similar backdrop:



Mission Accomplished:



Another flag backdrop:



One more:



They used the SAME flag graphic:

This...



Makes this:



====================================================

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/27_mission.html
'Mission accomplished': Bush brag or Demo fib?
U.S. News- Washington Whispers ^ | 09/29/03 | Paul Bedard

After weeks of Democratic assaults that President Bush was a nitwit for declaring "mission accomplished" in Iraq during his May 1 landing and victory speech on the USS Abraham Lincoln, the White House is bidding to set the story straight. The issue should be a simple one: Bush never uttered those words. "The president," argues communications boss Dan Bartlett, "said exactly the opposite: The mission continues." But Bush stood under a banner declaring "mission accomplished." Why? Bartlett says that the Lincoln's captain had the banner made up to thank his crew for the longest-ever carrier tour, not to declare the war over. "It is something the troops are really proud of," says Bartlett. "Of course they can hang the banner." But the picture was all the Demos needed. "On TV," he says, "they never play the bite of the president, they just show the image with the banner." Democratic polls show that the public buys their spin, which doesn't really surprise Bartlett. "Look, perception becomes reality," he says. "But the facts don't back it up."

==================================================

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/10/28/national2020EST0815.DTL

After the news conference, a White House spokeswoman said the Lincoln's crew asked the White House to have the sign made. The White House asked a private vendor to produce the sign, and the crew put it up, said the spokeswoman. She said she did not know who paid for the sign.

Later, a Pentagon spokesman called The Associated Press to reiterate that the banner was the crew's idea.

"It truly did signify a mission accomplished for the crew," Navy Cmdr. Conrad Chun said, adding the president's visit marked the end of the ship's 10-month international deployment.

==================================================

"The president's image makers, Mr. Bartlett said, work within a budget for White House travel and events allotted by Congress, which for fiscal 2003 was $3.7 million."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/05/16/nyt.bumiller/

==================================================

Asked if Bush had misled people by appearing in front of the banner, McClellan said "the Navy put it up and it was the Navy at the -- asked us to take care of the production of the banner. And we said that yesterday."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1517&e=13&u=/afp/us_bush_iraq_mission

==================================================

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/03/national/03LETT.html

WHITE HOUSE LETTER
Two Words on a Banner That No Author Wants to Claim
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: November 3, 2003

<snip>

....Gen. Wesley K. Clark told reporters that Mr. Bush's comments were outrageous and added, "I guess the next thing we're going to hear is that the sailors told him to wear the flight suit and prance around on the aircraft carrier."

<snip, wherein the author tries and tries to find out WHO on the ship requested the banner>

Next stop was again Mr. McClellan, who was told that so far the Navy had not produced a "Mission Accomplished" accomplice. Mr. McClellan said he would see what he could do. Soon enough, Commander Daniels called to say that one person in the meetings preparing for the ship's homecoming was Cmdr. Ron Horton, the executive officer of the Lincoln and the ship's second in command.

Commander Horton was too busy to come to the phone, Lt. Cmdr. Daniels said, but he recounted what he said Commander Horton had told him about a shipboard meeting in late April with officers of the Lincoln and members of the White House advance team. The team, including security, had boarded the ship in Hawaii around April 28 to make preparations for the president's speech — some 75 to 100 people strong.

"The White House said, `Is there anything we can do for you?' " Commander Daniels said. "Somebody in that meeting said, `You know, it would sure look good if we could have a banner that said `Mission Accomplished.' "

And who was that someone? "No one really remembers," Commander Daniels said.

<more>
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. WOW! That needs its own topic
This guy is a walking talking stage prop.

Maybe you could put this quote at the top and then cite your evidence, hee. :hi:


http://451world.com/fame.html
You know I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation. I've never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business. But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public office.
George W. Bush, 1989
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. It was it's own topic in October, when it happened
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=606903

But if anyone wants to repost they are more than welcome to copy and paste.
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I must be getting Alztheimer's.
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 11:41 PM by 9215
Great topic.
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Rebellious Republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Hexola, how much money did the Navy spend on training your
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 08:28 PM by Rebellious Republica
AWOL friend. So its ok for the Feds to spend bookoo bucks on pilot training for shrub, just so he can say I am tired of playing this game. Its ok for shrub to lie about his past, Cocaine use, abortion of knocked up girl friend, the list goes on and on, but lets impeach a president for lieing about a blow job! By the way I spent ten years on active duty in the Navy, got a ***Naval Expeditionary Forces Medal(Beirut) among others, and proudly displayed Navy Wings of Gold (Naval Aircrewman)on my chest above my rack of ribbons. I know about the cost and time involved to teach some one to fly. I was also on the ground assigned to Fleet Marine Forces in a Combat Camera Group, as well as Combat Aircrew. What exactly did your AWOL friend do? Yes there are some of us that care weather or not shrub lied. Especially when it comes to sending people to war, its for freaking real man, people come home with missing body parts. Pyscologically fucked for the rest of there lives or standing next to your buddy one second then they are instantly vaporized the next, spewing blood, flesh and bone fragments all over you, sounds like a freaking vacation does'nt it.

***NAVAL EXPEDITIONARY FORCES The Navy and Marine Corps provide naval expeditionary forces as part of a joint force. These forces are organized to ac- complish a specific objective in a foreign country.3 They are designed to project military power ashore from the sea, to in- clude the establishment of a landing force on foreign soil if needed, and thus to operate in the littoral regions. Naval expeditionary forces combine the complementary but distinct capabilities of the Navy and Marine Corps. Through attack aircraft, surface fire support, sea-launched cruise mis- siles, and special-warfare forces, Navy forces provide the ca- pability to attack targets in the littorals, and they provide the capability to deploy, land, and sustain expeditionary forces ashore. Navy forces contribute the seaward element of naval expeditionary power projection.
http://www.tpub.com/content/USMC/mpdpub3/css/mpdpub3_69.htm
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. hee, hee. I likes this
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 05:24 PM by 9215
story. Bush wants this story to die so bad he can taste it. He wants to hide all the other things that will be exposed if the Press keeps the fire lit under this, hee, hee, hee.

They will dig into his cocaine use and fathering a minors child, but most importantly his business and personal relations with James R. Bath will be exposed and that he lied about that relationship when first asked about it in the early 90's saying that he did not have a business relationship with Bath (Brewton "CIA, Mafia and George Bush")only to be confronted with the fact that Bath contributed $50,000 to his first business enterprise Arbusto, money that most assuredly came from the Saudi bin Laden's.

Have you ever met Osama bin Laden Bush, hee, hee? Do you know him personally? Did the bin Laden's contribute to your first business enterprise?

Did you have Hatfield murdered?


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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. personally
i would like to know about the black woman that filed a rape case in 2000 and then shot herself in the head not too long after hatfield, committing suicide..............

especially seeing how women hardly ever commit suicide with a gun

and not cuase it might not be totally bogus, but it is a fact she filed and a fact she is dead a couple years later

and i am curious, nosey kinda person i am
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MsDemeander Donating Member (87 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. Stay on the story
It's working so well to turn everyone against Bush that it needs to be kept up. Don't let people tell you that the National Guard wasn't an escape just like Canada and other means of staying out of Viet Nam. Everyone that went into the Guard back then was saving their own bacon.

Steady as she goes...
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9215 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Especially as the toll in Iraq mounts. The question
of Bush's service becomes more important.
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jbm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. welcome to DU! ..n/t
:)
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sonias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. I love my Mother
n/t

Sonia
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