Nader's Bid: Another Take

[KharmaTrain]

I've read a lot of the thoughts and outrage here and not sure if these dots have been connected...

When I saw Nader on Crossfire a couple weeks back, I knew he was running. He gave pretty much the same responses to Begala and Novakula that day...and the few postings here were of likewise thought. Now why would Ralph, who can't be that naive or ego-laden, be up to considering his detest of * is as strong as any of us...or at least he's been on record saying so.

Again, this is just my thoughts, not a stand of any sort and tossed out for what it's worth...but maybe we're getting a dose of tough-love here from old Ralphie boy...or at least he's trying.

I'm not one who blames Nader for the 2000 fiasco as much as a Gore campaign that never got on track and a Rove machine that did their homework very well and just plain "wanted it more"...more enough to steal it. Yes, Nader's bid pulled votes that surely were Gore's, but the election should have never been that close to start out with and always was Gore's to "lose" (please take this in the sporting sense...since I'm as outraged as any about what occured) rather than Nader being the cause of him losing it or being a spoiler. We still had over 500,000 more votes and many, many more that were never counted.

A Gore victory would have been a weak one...just like *'s first months. Jeffords hadn't switched, so there was and still is GOOP control of the House & Senate...and we all know how cooperative Hastert, DeLay and the other slime would be given such a small mandate. I still feel that even if this regime is defeated this November, until we take back the House, the wingnuts and NeoCons will continue to pollute our political and social dynamic.

After thought today, I get the strange feeling Ralph's reading the tea leaves...he surely sees us. DU's growing with new members daily, the media is starting to smell blood in the many * regime scandals and the polls are finally showing the soft support this regime has. He also has seen 3 years of Democrats, Progressive, Liberals and Greens having to hide underground as "un American" and "Commies"...and there's a real large anger and sense of purpose that hasn't been seen in these parts since the 60's. Ralph was there then...not like monkeyboy...he was green when it wasn't even a political notion.

Nothing gets people more together than anger and outrage. Look at how that works for the wingnuts who can whip themselves into a frenzy in less than the time you can say Clinton. The same now goes for those of us who can't even type the name (and no I won't)...and his legitimacy, damage and completely corruptness. Ralph knows this and knows that he stands less a chance this year...the political lines are far more polarized...than in 2000 as a viable candidate, but can play a role as a "voice"...a statement candidate.

Being a declared candidate gives him access to media forums he can't as a "regular talking head"...and a "credibility" (and again notice it's used loosely) that will allow him to interject his opinions or whip up reaction (such as what I think he did on MTP) that will keep our ranks together in the "long slog" that's ahead. I sincerely think he wants this poser out as much as any of us and sees it in a bigger picture.

I've posted this in the past with little reaction/response...but my concern is to push DeLay and his ilk out of the House and to develop Democratic, Liberal and Progressive organizations and networks (similar to what the GOOP has...it works) to contest in a lot more districts than we presently do. The DNC IS neglecting a lot of local aspirants...the grassroots that will ensure the party's diversity, growth and strength...and it's a shame, since House control was our safety valve during Raygun and BushbotI.

I'm hoping Ralph gets a lot of you riled up...that not only do we focus on ousting this evil regime and its corruption, but then regain the people's house since Democrats truly reflect the diversity of America. Here's hoping this is another wake-up call to stay energized and get even more so. The winds of change are finally blowing our way...let's not let them blow us off course.

Cheers

[Eric J in MN]

1. Just because Nader can get booked more often as a Presidential

Just because Nader can get booked more often as a Presidential candidate than if he weren't running in 2004, doesn't make it ok with me.

Everyone on the left needs to pull together to get the Democratic nominee elected.

[KharmaTrain]

2. Any Voice Against The Machine Helps

Look at how outgunned Democrats and Liberals are on most talk shows and most definitely on hate radio.

Nader is a voice that will get heard. He'll be able to get on Tweety and I'll bet he even goes after Hannity...as well as on hundreds of talk shows across the country. He sure isn't going to hurt us with a majority of what he stands for and his detest for his assholiness.

I don't think we need to be sold on pulling together...it's getting more to join us and feel comfortable. We're facing a lot of heavy guns...our biggest is the truth and Nader speaks it as eloquently as any Democrat.

Again, I'm not here to support him, just to hope this energizes more Democrats to focus on the goal of victory in November...nothing less.

[Lindacooks]

4. Yes, he is going to hurt us

Because he lumps Repukes and Democrats together in every sentence he speaks. He hates both parties, and he's not going to praise Dems for anything. It's absolutely insane that after 3 years of chimpy disaster, he STILL says there's no difference between Repukes and Democrats.

[KharmaTrain]

6. I Just Saw The MTP Replay

I really listened closely...and I don't think you saw/heard the same interview I did.

He went discussed impeachement of this bastard, how oil dictates the Iraq invasion, the absolute whoring of our national institutions and the pillage of our treasury. This was ALL directed at what he called a "man impersonating being a corporation"...no truer words have been spoken.

He's right that there are Democrats who put their power and egos ahead of the best interests of the country. He refers to the inside the beltway/DLC types who are "lifers"...whose ratings inside the beltway outweigh the interests of their constituents or the party on the whole. The Repugnicans are so far over the edge on this issue it's we don't have to go there...but to say there aren't Democrats who aren't as greedy and willing to compromise values is what we complain the freepers do. I know we're a lot better than that.

Also, I see two Democrat parties...I always have. The "professional" one...from the DNC to the DLC, think tanks to state and local organizations. Then there's the ideological side...those of us who are loyal at the polls and supportive of the party's ideals...and not connected directly to the "gravy train" of a government job or perk.

This is the part of politics that is what goes into the sausage.

[VOX]

8. Agreed. He will not get any Republican votes, ever.

It's Democratic votes and potential Democratic votes that he'll siphon off.

And in 2004, just one of those votes taken away is one too many.

[raysr]

11. You don't think that maybe

some of the "real republicans" I've heard about who are furious with Bush over the deficit, Patriot Act, etc. might have their year for protest votes as the Greens did in 2000? None of the Greens I know will vote for him in '04, no time for a protest vote. Might not be so for some on the other side, ones who couldn't bring themselves to vote Dem.

[aquart]

3. Since you never blamed him, you have nothing to forgive.

I do. And I'm not the forgiving type.

But I didn't need the arrogant Ralph or his smug supporters to "rile" me up. I'm pretty upset over BushCo's rape of the United States.

The "winds of change"? You still have no clue what's happening. Not a clue.

YOU don't have to push "Delay and his ilk" out of the house. You were never able to do it before and it won't happen now because of you. Nobody even notices you. What we notice is what THEY have done.

But thanks for the offer. I know what it's worth.

[KharmaTrain]

5. And Since You Have The Answers...

Why not enlighten rather than instigate.

I'm not looking to get noticed, I'm looking for my country back...not sure what your agenda is.

[pnorman]

7. Thanks for that, and the rest of you guys

are making far too much out of Ralph running, and looking downright silly in the process. I won't go into the details at this point unless pressed to do so. But I became a Nader supporter around Labor Day 2000. I did the best I could do with what info I had available then, and I offer NO APOLOGY.

I was then active in the King County Labor Council as well as the local Jobs with Justice, and was in close contact with many of the Naderist activists & supporters. With considerable assurance, I can say this: Few if any of them would vote other than the Democratic Party this year. They'll probably attend some of his events and applaud him (as I may also do) but they WON'T vote for him.

So relax and concentrate on WINNING. One thing that makes me feel good: For the first time ever, I attended the local Democratic Caucus at the Seattle Labor Temple. The main auditorium was PACKED. Inside, the Chairman asked the crowd: "How many are here for the first time?" I was at the back, and nearly every hand in sight was raised. If we make the right moves, there will be LOADS of voters who had grown apathetic over the years, and have quit bothering to take any further part in what appeared to be a charade. But they WILL now, and they WON'T be for Bush!

pnorman
STAND UP, KEEP FIGHTING http://shows.implex.tv/wellstone/

[Lexingtonian]

9. I dunno

What I saw yesterday morning was an old man who had trouble remembering his talking points and keeping them straight in his head, and they were all tired Chomsky notions circa 1972 turned to sound bite drivel.

The moment of opportunity for him was this week or next, and he took it. At the moment, following Dean's drop-out and prior to Edwards's (presumably), he achieves highest political contrast and appearance of rationality by re-completing the Four Directions in American politics (Bush-Right, Nader-Left, Edwards-conservative, Kerry-liberal).

I think the question Nader can't answer with integrity is this: Is he willing to drop out in order to ensure that Bush is removed?

[KharmaTrain]

10. Remember What We're Facing

We have to keep remembering that the Repugnican/Rove machine will take any division or weakness shown by any Democrat or political enemy and ram it up our butts. Rove's game is to have the last word...get the media on his side and roll on through to "victory".

I never considered voting for Nader in 2000 since I feared so much for what I knew a Repugnican regime would mean (and those fears seem small compared to the stakes up ahead), but I respected the man's voice then and I still do now in speaking about the serious reasons why bunnypants has to go.

Right now I see a lot of raw nerves as candidates drop out and their followers try and figure if they're comfortable with the "status quo" (I first felt this after RFK's assasination...it took months before I could fully embrace HHH), and maybe a few disenfranchised will flock to a Nader movement, but I don't see this as the ultimate result.

We will see in the course of this campaign, spin and diversion and attack and lie on our candidates and their character (witness Saxby Chamblis)...these attacks won't be coming from the * campaign, it'll be by "independent" surrogates. Nader serves our side well as he can keep some of the disenfranchised involved...hopefully on the state and local level...which is what he was talking about (seems a lot of what he said was missed in the rage over his announcement) and that he will give either tactic or outright verbal support of the Democratic ticket if it appears the election is close.

Right now the fraud is babbling again about his war on terra...just watching this puke every day is enough to keep me focused, I hope others can do likewise.

Yes, the prime objective is the removal of this squatter and the return of a popularly elected executive. The importance of this on the future path of our political system can't be overstated. A Democratic victory will show there's hope for ALL people in our political process, where a Repugnican victory gives the green light to more corporate pillage, greed and exploitation.