Why I think Nader's running.

[abcdan]

If Ralph didn't run, it would imply that he doesn't want to get in the way of defeating Bush, consequently admitting that his 2000 run was a mistake and partially responsible for Bush's victory. He can't live with that (the truth) on his conscience, hence he's running.

[Kahuna]

1. Because he hates America is my guess.

nt

[HEyHEY]

11. I'll see that and raise you a "he hates the world"

[philosophie_en_rose]

15. But really, really loves himself.

Everyone look at me! Look! Look!

[kalian]

19. Sounds like a republican response....

careful now...

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kalian]

22. No...I was referring to Kahuna's remarks....

[banana republican]

2. Ego my friend Ego

another individual who has published a book or two won a few court trials and thinks that he can change the world. It will take a lot more than ralph....

[mbee]

3. He may be just pulling the chain of the elites in the Democratic Party

for the way they treated Dean. I hope so, but I hope he pulls out after he has a little fun with them. They so deserve it!

[Poiuyt]

4. He changed the world alright

[bluestateguy]

5. He still wants to be relevant

Nobody wants to be irrelevant. By throwing 2 elections in a row to Bush he can see to it that someone gets in the White House who destroys everything he (Nader) fought for. That will be is only legacy, and that's how I will tell it to future generations.

[glarius]

6. I'm watching him now on MTP rerun...He's an egomaniac! It's his EGO!

He doesn't CARE that he might be responsible for tipping the balance in Bush's favour....He's JUST A BIG EGO!!!...I don't care what good things he has done in the past....It's too crucial now that Bush be beaten...That should be his main concern....HE'S ALL EGO!

[SoKalKyle]

7. He's also afraid of being forgotten...

He has spent his entire professional life in the limelight and no longer has landmark cases like seatbelts in automobiles to propel him into the news.

The only way he can stay relevant ( in his mind ) and stay on the front page is to run -- he doesn't care if this destroys America as long as he gets his headlines...and preserves his legacy of fighting corporate America.

No wonder the Freepers are saying 'Go, Ralph, go!".

[Robin Hood]

8. He is a paid republican operative that gets blow jobs from

Phillis Scahflly. Nader is a tool of the right, he has proven this much by his timing of his announcement. He is a pthetic turd of a man that will suffer a horrible defeat of not being acknowledge after all this is said and done.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

17. I agree with all that you posted.

[Unknown Known]

9. Maybe the BFEE has something on him

Maybe they've threatened him with releasing info on him if he doesn't run. Where's his money coming from to do this anyway? Repukes, probably. Sure, he's an egomaniac, but there's something else going on here, IMO.

[zulchzulu]

10. Rove couldn't be happier that St. Ralph returned to the GOP fold

St. Ralph figures that if Bush wins again, he can get even more tax cuts for himself and other multimillionaires.

[Robin Hood]

12. What makes you think that he ever left the fold?

He is a rich, tax cut loving whore who does the BFEE's bidding.

[glarius]

13. He could work for Kerry or Edwards if he was sincere...He could make all

the points he has just made on MTP about the Bush government and work to defeat him....HE'S JUST A HUGE EGO...HE DISGUSTS ME!

[FreakinDJ]

14. He wants the money

[Arugula Latte]

18. I simply can't believe the rumors and nonsense on this my favorite site ..

Ralph Nader is not a "tax cut whore" (by the way you should have hyphenated that)nor is it his ego that prompts his candidacy. And, he's not clearly concerned about being "irrelevant" -- he already gets plenty of attention with his thoughtful articles published far and wide and his progressive stands.

Let me come clean. First, I have published articles in Public Citizen Magazine and have met Nader twice. Also, I voted for him in 1996 and 2000 and am proud of those votes because I actually voted for someone I believed in. I don't think that he cost Gore the election. If a fraction of the 200,000 Democrats in Florida who voted for Bush had voted for Gore the then-VP would have won and, as has been stated countless times, had Gore won his home state, he would have won.

I won't, however, be voting for Nader this time -- I wanted Dean but the media did him in -- as I will plug my nose and vote Kerry despite his poor voting record and his support for the Iraq invasion. Nader, by the way, was a vocal opponent of the war, long before it was popular among political leaders. I think that had 9/11 not happened, we'd see a different America today, one more progressive, one more critical of Bush. The criticism was starting to happen in August 2001 as Bush's honeymoon was fading but then .... But in the post-9/11 world the Democrats began caving more and more, and it took Howard Dean to show them a political backbone. And yes, Nader is pissed that Dean was torched by the DLC. I hope Nader brings us thoughtful issues and forces the Dems to behave like REAL Democrats -- which I think he will.

I continue to admire all that Nader has done for this country and in no way think that he is entering the race to elect Bush. That's ridiculous, given his record of adament criticism of the Bush regime.

As for all of this knee-jerk vitriolic hatred for Nader, I dismiss you and wish you would remember where we'd be without his civic work for the last 40 years. His stance against GM -- amid threats to his life -- shows greater courage than any DU-er who hurls epitaths his way.

I wrote to Nader and urged him not to run. But I understand why he is and respect his decision. We need his views in the race. If Kerry can run a real campaign, we'll get rid of Bush and then are goal will be to push Kerry to the left so that America can be served the way it should -- the way that progressives like Nader and Dean would run the country.

I'm nore than willing to offer any queries about my long post. Just, please, respect my opinion and be thoughtful.

email me at [e-mail] or post here -- STT

[Matilda]

21. If he is sincere in the views he says he holds

wouldn't he do less harm if he gave his support to Dennis Kuchinich?

[NightTrain]

23. That was a thoughtful, well-written, and wholly reasoned posting.

As such, you had better be prepared for an onslaught of nasty replies to what you've written! ;)

Oh, and for future reference: it's "epithets," not "epitaths."

[Arugula Latte]

24. Thanks, NT, I'm ready for any responses. And thanks for the corrections ..

too. Lke many here, I'm too quick to post and not careful enough in proofing. I'm all for such corrections.

I'm glad Nader's running now because I heard he has said he will drop out if the race looks too close. This means we get the best of both worlds -- a thoughtful progressive who won't allow bush to get re-elected but who will bring up important issues that Kerry might ignore. Keep up your thoughtful commentary.

[5thGenDemocrat]

25. Right. Ralph was paid to write "Unsafe at any Speed"

Before he ever rolled one sheet of paper into his typewriter. He also neglected to mention that the Corvair's rear-axle design he so condemned had been completely redesigned by the time his hatchet job was published and, further, that the Corvairs on the dealers lots as the book came out were, in fact, perfectly safe.
But the loss of the Corvair (a wildly modern and economical car, BTW, perhaps one of the most far-sighted ever to come out of Detroit) cost Saginaw and cities like Saginaw unknown hundreds of good union jobs.
To hell with Saint Ralph. Let the sanctimonious jackass come on up here -- we'd LOVE to see him.
John
I have a vitriolic hatred for Nader. But there's nothing "knee-jerk" about it.

[Arugula Latte]

26. Sorry, I'm a union supporter too, but you have your facts wrong. Too bad

for you. Ralph Nader was right on the money about the Corvair and dozens of documents prove it -- I don't want to sound boastful here but I researched this for an author who wrote a book about this.

You certainly need to admit that vehicles made in the 1960s were less safe, that they are safer now and that Nader was chiefly responsible for the reform that has saved millions of lives. Had airbags been required in 1966, my sister would still be alive.

So don't try to pull the wool over anyone's eyes by suggesting that Nader was somehow immorally "paid" to write a book against Detroit automakers. Paid by whom? for god's sake!!! That's ludicrous. In all due respect, read the history books. He was and continues to be a consumer warrior and your life is safer for it.

He also said he'd pull out of the race if it looks like his candidacy will elect Bush. With this, we get the best of both worlds: A true progressive who will not allow Bush to get re-elected but will bring up important issues and force Kerry to act like a real Dem.

Any response? You can email me if you wish to be more private -- I'm not afraid to list my address as I did in my original post.

Best to you.

[5thGenDemocrat]

27. "Paid by whom?"

"(Nader) made contact with some of the new muckrakers who were beginning to assemble in Washington and did some more writing. In 1964, for the grand sum of $2000, he signed a contract with a publisher named Richard Grossman to write a book on auto safety. Grossman had been looking for a writer to delve into the subject. A year later Nader published 'Unsafe at Any Speed,' an unsparing critique of Detroit's lack of concern for safety and its preoccupation with styling and profit."
('The Reckoning,' David Halberstam, William Morrow and Company, Inc., New York, 1986, p 494.)
As to Nader doing anything to make the Corvair safer, I'll refer you to 'On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors - John Z. DeLorean's Look Inside the Automotive Giant,' by J. Patrick Wright (Wright Enterprises, Grosse Pointe, Mich, 1979), pp 55-56:
(DeLorean): "The son of Cal Werner, general manager of the Cadillac Division, was killed in a Corvair. Werner was absolutely convinced that the design defect in the car was responsible. He said so many times. The son of Cy Osborne, an executive vice-president in the '60s, was critically injured in a Corvair and suffered irreparable brain damage. Bunkie Knudson's niece was brutally injured in a Corvair. And the son of an Indianapolis auto dealer also was killed in the car, Ernie Kovacs, my favorite comedian, was killed in a Corvair (p. 55)."
At first the GM hierarchy balked at the $15 per unit cost of redesigning the rear-end of the car. Then,
"Bunkie (Knudsen) was livid. As I understand it, he went to the Executive Committee and told the top officers of the corporation that, if they didn't reappraise his request and give him permission to make the Corvair safe, he was going to resign from General Motors. This threat and the fear of the bad publicity that surely would result from Knudsen's resignation forced management's hand. They relented. Bunkie put a stabilizing bar on the Corvair in the 1964 models. The next year a completely new and safer independent suspension designed by Frank Winchell was put on the Corvair. And it became one of the safest cars on the road. But the damage done to the car's reputation by then was irreparable. Corvair sales began to decline precipitously after the waves of unfavorable publicity following Nader's book and the many lawsuits being filed across the country. Production of the Corvair was halted in 1969, four years after it was made a safe and viable car (p 56)."
GM knew they had a bad design because the children of their executives were being killed, not because of any book or any crusader. Nader was not the hero in getting the flaw fixed, Knudsen was. Saint Ralph, finally, was little more than a mercenary doing a job for thirty pieces of silver.
So, too bad for you -- I'd say you have some more research to do. The books I listed are right upstairs in my library where I can find them when I need to back up something I say here. I have more, but I trust these quotes will serve for now.
John
Best wishes to you, too.

[5thGenDemocrat]

28. Right. Who's pulling the wool over whose eyes?

I stated the facts as you suggested, Oregonian, and I'm politely waiting for a response.
I (and Pulitzer Prize-winner Halberstam) say Ralph signed on a dotted line for Grossman forty years ago and I say Saint Ralph signed on one for Rove just now.
John
A egotistical, narcissistic has-been like Nader, after all, doesn't crawl far from his rock.

[Isere]

16. I think you are on to something...

Your explanation rings true to me. I wish I had thought of it myself.