Does anyone else sense that Rove is mishandling *Bush?

[Dirty Hippie]

After MTP, the backtracking on the job numbers, the mishandling of the AWOL allegations, it seems Rove is screwing up.

Does anyone believe they are setting *Bush up for a fall? Maybe to run someone they think is more electable?

Or maybe because of BBV they are not worried about November?

Call me crazy (I do tend to lean toward paranoia) but I just wondered If I'm the only one thinking these thoughts.

[GreenNADER]

1. the chimp hasn't even started yet

think about it.

[sadiesworld]

6. I disagee, they've been campaigning since the moment * took office

and they've been in full throttle for months.

[aquart]

2. Arrogance always brings them down.

Rove's job is putting the lipstick on the pig. That only works if people don't perceive the pig in the first place, but still think they're looking at Miss America.

Americans now know we're looking at Miss Piggy.

[hang a left]

3. I have had exactly the same thoughts.

*wad is being taken down. If you look at recent pictures of POSPOTUS he looks scared shitless. It is really wierd, I get the feeling that they used him badly, knowing that he is an idiot. I think it is just starting to sink in and he knows he has been had. And it makes me wonder where poppy stands on this, is he low enough to sacrifice his own kid for the cause. Would you put it past him?

[sadiesworld]

4. I think Rove is simply running out of tricks

to prop his boy up with. The news is generally crummy, nobody beleves a word * says anymore, and any move to mke one constituency happy invariably pisses another off. They need something BIG, e.g., Osama or WMD.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

5. It seems like Karen Hughes' influence was important

in tempering Rove. Hopefully she'll stay in Texas.

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. Karen has been back at the WH

for awhile. Even mama Karen can't fix Humpty Dumpty anymore.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

29. Link? Reference?

I'd like to read more about this.

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. I don't know if officially she has come back but

here she is hosting an online 'ask the WH discussion' just this January and she was all over the TV the day of the SOTU and helped prep W for the speech.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ask/20040121.html

[unblock]

7. they may be overplaying their hand, but

rove did have to puncture bush's front-runner status. being in the lead at this stage is dangerous, as the press looks for ways to make a horse race interesting by tearing down the leader.

rove likes inevitability in the primaries, but prefers come-from-behind in the general. to do this he had to take bush's numbers down a fwe notches so the press would start treating bush like he's a shoo-in.

from here on in, they get to position the democrats as a real danger (which helps with republican donations and turnout) and make bush look like he's working hard to fend off a challenge, and coming from behind.

plus, they're getting the dirt out early, so it can't come as a surprise in october.

it is certainly possible to overplay this, and do too much damage, but this is what i think rove wanted. democrats are now in a position to need to keep the pressure on, because if it lets up, bush will appear to have come-from-behind momentum, which is HUGE the way presidential elections are covered these days.

[hang a left]

14. I disagree here. There is way too much damage to be done

at this point in time. There is the Plame affair. The 9/11 commission, Cheney's energy paper deal before the Supremes to be ruled on this summer, Congressional investigation into pre-war intelligence et al. I would say that we are seeing just the very beginning of the end of chimp and co.

[diplomats]

20. Actually, I think Rove strives for inevitability in the GE, too

That's what happened in 2000. Remember how he had Bush campaign in California just days before the election, trying to give the impression that he had it wrapped so he could afford to go to a state he had no chance of winning? Of course, the race was a lot closer than they were letting on. It was a Rovian effort to depress turnout among Dems. Rove is used to being on top, not coming from behind.

[KharmaTrain]

33. SPOT ON!!!

You summed it up very nicely.

Rove will be happy with either being behind or even until the Convention (also a reason it was moved so far into September) to take the bump...blow away the one the Democrats will get from their convention (come up with an October Surprise) an ride into the election with a head of steam.

A blueprint could be the Ahnold campaign...initially he was the prohibitive favorite, then Davis/Bustamante regained as Ahnold's past became present...then Rove turned up the juice, the distortion and media and the Arnold Express was on its way.

These guys know how to manipulate very well...using the GOOP sludge mongers like Drudge that are then aped by Hanity & Rush and taken as "mainstream" truths by Faux Noise Channel, New York Post & Washington Times...(thanks to the PBS media reporter who put all these strings together so nicely).

I'm more concerned they could underestimate than overplay...like '92...but this group is ruthless...they had to prove they were better than the old man with the tax cuts, Iraq invasion and now it'll be "winning a second term".

Our problem is to keep the focus and discussion on this regime's record and relate it to millions who are being adversely affected by it. To make sure they know there's a lot of us who want change, too...and their vote (or non-vote if it's a Repug. who just can't go for a Democrat) that will mean a better future.

Cheers

[Arugula Latte]

38. Did you mean

that Rove "had to take * down a few inches" so the press would STOP treating him like a shoo-in?

[sangha]

8. No, because IMO Rove doesn't control Bush*

It's the reverse. IMO, Bush* is a Repugnant version of CLinton in that he is a political genius. As one the most radically conservative politicians in all of American history, he managed to campaign as a "compassionate" and moderate conservative while at the same time successfully appealing to the religious right. He started doing this long before he was tight with Rove.

[nostamj]

11. huh?

He started doing this long before he was tight with Rove.

Rove has been with * from the very beginning in Texas.

[sangha]

16. Bush* didn't start in Texas

Bush* started working in politics while he was AWOL from the NG, long before he met Rove. Then he was the enforcer in his daddy's White House, where he was mentored by Lee Atwater. This was around the time he was "born again" (actually, his wife says he isn't born-again or fundamentalist) after praying with Pat Robertson, a politically astute move that was done without the advice of Rove.

[iamjoy]

9. Don't Underestimate Rove

I don't think Rove will ever turn on Dubya as long as he thinks he can control him.

I think Rove is biding his time, let all this negative crap come out about Bush, lull the Dems into a false sense of security and then pounce when we least expect it or when we've run out of energy and steam. Remember, Bush has a $150 million war chest for reelection, and so far, hasn't had to spend a penny while the Dem nominee will be low on funds from the primary. Plus, for the GE Bush will get to go this campaign stops on Air Force One (courtesy of the American tax payers) while the Dem nominee will have to spend his own money getting around.

I think Rove still has several more dirty tricks up his sleeve, but timing is everything & he knows when to spring his nasty little surprises.

[KayLaw]

10. Maybe the BBV thing

But maybe Rove is just doing his best. You can only fool people just so long and these guys simply have bad ideas and are doing a bad job of just about everything.

[Old and In the Way]

12. Rove is working with gross incompetence.

He'd need to be a miracle worker to cover the tracks of this Buffoon.

BTW, I like the POSPOTUS.....I'm thinking POSTPOTUS has a better ring to it.

[havocmom]

13. Ralph Reed or Marc Rasicot?

Both are telegenic and dark enough horses to the masses of voters that their extremist views might not be totally commom knowledge.

The puppet bush* has always been expendable. The powers behind the throne will always use expendable men. The last thing they want is someone who actually uses logic and thinks independendly.

It wouldn't surprise me if some terrible terrorist(a la: Northwoods- manufactured by the power elite to further the adgenda of the power elite) attack were to make martyrs out of many in DC. The power elite have no problem with deaths as a means to their ends.

[boobooday]

15. They are fraying around the edges

Their hypocrisy is starting to show through.

Look out cap'n Rove! The Vessel USS Stupido is about to BLOW!

http://www.wgoeshome.com

[peacetalksforall]

18. Rove is a cabal genius, they can't pay him enough if you judge by

the volumes of people who still adore the cheerleading brush raker backslapper golden boy.

We have a Resident Divider-Liar and its all to Rove's credit, and many can't see it. Job well done, Karl.

[Ksec]

19. The most overrated hack in politics

Rove has a long history of flubs and downright embarassing moves. Daily we read new bonehead moves by them conducted by rove. Ive always thought Rove was overrated. They got lucky on the election and came into politics when the country was moving toward the repubs but not by anything he did, just the mood. Now after 3 yrs of them and the idiot we have the country coming back to the right side,our side.

[Dirty Hippie]

22. Any examples of Rove's flubs come to mind?

Just curious.

[sangha]

25. A few

Bush*'s trip to Bob Jones University

Roves' talking about how he wanted to campaign against Dean during a Dean parade.

Bush* economic summit in 2001

Arsenic in water

[Ksec]

26. aircraft carrier landing, Mars , illegal alien debacle, the war lying, go

it alone attitude, ignoring millions of protestors, exporting jobs is good for the country, the economy is good, axis of evil, youre with us or with them..on and on.

I know he doesnt make policy but he gets credit when they do something right so he should get credit when they do something wrong IMO.

[TankLV]

40. Eliminating Over Time Pay requirements.

How can eliminating this one thing that directly benifitted the common man be good for the country?

[proud patriot]

21. Arrogance will be there undoing

with a little help from us :D

[Kahuna]

23. With a campaign underway, Chimp can't hide out anymore..

It'll be hard for him to avoid direct questioning and scrutiny.

[Cat Atomic]

24. I think Rove is just overrated.

He was given a free pass after 9-11. It's wearing thin, that's all.

When you think about it, he's amazingly incompetent. After the 9-11 boost Bush received, after all the fawning press coverage, he's still got a low approval rating.

"Bush's Brain" may look like a genius next to Dubya, but that's not really saying much.

[grasswire]

27. we'll be able to judge....

...by whether or not they can hold Republicans in line. That is the uppermost task for Rove now.

Over on freerepublic.com in their poll, only 88 percent say they will vote for Bush now. That's down from 97 percent.

Anecdotal information is everywhere that independents and even some Republicans are peeling off.

The teflon is gone. The newest poll says that respondents used the word "liar" MOST when asked to give a word describing Bush.

I don't see how they can recover. And I HOPE there will be a Republican challenger soon.

[randr]

28. Rove is playing with a worn out deck

He has run the same campaign style for decades and the times they have changed. He has no connection to the real world and most people are fed up with his bullshit. There are very real issues before us and the American people are not as stupid as Mr. Rove would like to think.
Remember he lost the election for his boy last time out but for goons on the side lines.

[teach1st]

30. Rove's tricks aren't working

Dems have learned from his tricks and recent events show it. His normal attack mode isn't working well right now - Hanoi Jane didn't work. His photo ops are dissected and ridiculed promptly - Daytona failed. The material from which his product is formed is too raw and unpredictable - Meet the Press was a big mistake.

According to reports, Rove absolutely hates to lose. It's possible he can or already has come up with a new roster of tricks, stuff the Dems haven't anticipated, to put in play over the next few months. Maybe he's burned out.

In addition, it looks like more of the public appear to have caught on to Rove's way of work. His tricks work best when the public is his unsuspecting rube. Somehow the magical media shield that Rove skillfully wrapped around Bush has been breached, if only slightly, and reality is occasionally creeping into media reports again. As Democrats and others keep hammering at Bush's weaknesses, his mistakes, and his inability to relate to the truth, it will be harder and harder for Rove to work his magic.

[AlinPA]

31. After Rove got the war going, he became confused. With no plan

except to make Bush* look like a a "wartime president", things went downhill after the aircraft carrier stunt. He's spiraling down now and is trying to pin it on the UN. Further confuses himself and Bush*.

[snippy]

39. Rove and Bush expected to be working on the Next Bush War by this time.

They thought Iraq would be well over by now and the debate would be about WMD and terrorists in Syria or Iran and whether to invade. They also assumed that Bush could continue his incessant and compulsive lying about every topic he speaks on without anyone questioning the lies. Finally, they took some of the republican base for granted with the profligate spending, signing McCain-Feingold and the guest worker proposal. All three of these mistakes are rooted in their arrogance.

[Seldona]

32. Not at all.

You really have to apply some sort of mentally disturbed view into this.

I am almost sure of it that the entire administration, while admitting there are a few problems, is so wrapped up in their own ideology and insulated from the public to even be able to see their own mistakes.

There is genius among them IMHO.

But there is madness there as well.

And in the end under constant scrutiny that madness will, and has, revealed itself.

Even the day he loses the election, Rove will be sitting there wondering what went wrong.

They just don't get it. They are incapable of getting it.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[salin]

34. Too late for the set-him-up and run-somene-else scenario

no pretext for him to step aside - no primaries to set up a contender - no mechanism to build "faith" among voters that this "other" republican should be president (eg if bush - as head of gop - screwed up so bad... why get another gop as opposed to a dem.)

They just chose a simpleton - who misspeaks (and thus constantly belies his "gravitas" and says stupid things because he is too lazy to know his own admins policies and thus have the self-censorship sensabilities to prevent him from saying stupid stuff that contradicts what he has said before and what his administration is doing)... they have over-reached on too many fronts that they are a bit naked on many fronts (eg even their smarmiest rhetoric can't gloss over their naked agenda)... and they are having problems on multiple fronts (due to the over-reaching in nearly all directions) and can not keep all the faux balls up in the air simultaneously... in short - they appear to be coming apart at the seams. After 911, everytime they appeared out of control on an issue - they regrouped and were able to grab back control and suppress all other stories within about 7 to 10 days. They have been out of control since early January... in free fall since the SOTU speech that not only turned around the problem (as had been hoped) but escalated it... and have continued to lose traction.

The wild cards are the boat loads of money they continue to raise and not knowing how they will spend it ... and the Tom DeLay inspired congressional powerplays. These could turn things around for bush... but haven't yet been able to do so. Hard to say how they will play in the next 10 months... but right now - the fact that they are unable to pull it together... and instead keep further floundering... it doesn't look good for Rove, Cheney, the bushboy and their allies.

[teach1st]

36. I've also wondered if Bush

I've also wondered if Bush has been straying from the Rove agenda lately. I wonder if Bush has been deliberately disregarding the script in an effort to exert independence.

[Zero Gravitas]

37. Even Rove

Can not make Bush* look either competent or successful.