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Beyond ABB - We must change the Democratic party and fight the Right

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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:25 AM
Original message
Beyond ABB - We must change the Democratic party and fight the Right
- Clinton was a great man and president...but a lousy Democrat. He and his 'third way' new Democrats sold out the party and compromised us right into the minority. On top of that...he put himself in a position to be bullied into submission with his indiscretions.

- The New Democrats didn't really want Gore as president...which is why they turned their backs on him during the recount and when he considered running again. While it's true that Gore used to be part of the DLC crowd...they parted ways when he began rejecting their advice to sleep with the enemy.

- Where does this leave the Democratic party in 2004? Our best chance at winning the White House is gone now that the party has exiled Gore. We're left with candidates that support many of the issues Bush* will use to brag about his 'bipartisan' leadership. Democrats can't really campaign on many of the relevant issues...like election fraud/BBV, Patriot Act(s), corporate/government corruption and lies that drove us to war...because they've either participated or refused to investigate or hold Bush* accountable.

- There are some real fighters in the house and senate...but most Americans wouldn't know that unless they stay glued to CSPAN 24 hours a day. These brave Dems spend literally dozens of hours each month defending Democratic positions and lambasting the Bush* administration...only to be ignored or marginalized by the mainstream media and conservative Democrats.

- You'll hear complaints about Bush* from the Right...but they will indeed vote for him rather than stay home or vote Democratic. It's wishful thinking to believe that Republicans will risk losing the White House and power by making it easier for Democrats to win. As much as some GOPers may dislike Bush's* policies...they hate Democrats and their 'socialism' even more.

- Here's my prediction: Everything will stay the same after the 2004 election. Bush* will stay in our White House and the Houses will maintain about the same balance of power. In other words...we'll remain the minority party. The New Democrats will blame liberals/progressives for the loss and remain beholden to corporate interests. Republicans and Neocons will consider a Bush* 'win' as a mandate to take the country even further to the right.

- Call it pessimism if you will...but this is most likely the reality if we can't convince the Democratic party (leadership) to stop moving to the right and compromising with the transparently corrupt Bush* government. History repeats.

- Have a great Sunday and give your kids a hug.


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mhr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well Said Q, The Sooner The ABB Crowd Understands This Argument
The sooner we can reclaim the Democratic party from the corporations.
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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Reclaim the Democratic party from the corporations???
The Democratic Party has always been in the grip of monied interests since the days of Alexander Hamilton, as has the entire American system of government. When this nation was first founded, only people with wealth could vote...excuse me, only MEN with wealth could vote, and only if they were white. Even as late as the end of the 19th century those without money were regularly disenfranchised, particularly in the South
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SaddenedDem Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. On the same path as 2002
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 10:35 AM by SaddenedDem
and they handed us our asses on a silver platter.

But we have the same leadership in place, using the same strategy, and expecting a different outcome.

Oh yeah, let's just keep using a losing strategy and somehow expect a different conclusion. That'll work.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. The current topic of discussion...
...among Democrats is...you guessed it...Nader.

- Perhaps we should be debating how best to get back our BASE voters and convince fence sitters to come over to our side?
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SaddenedDem Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. It would be nice
But the current thought on that one is......

"Fuck 'em - just register new voters so we don't have to listen to them."

Of course, when the new voters go for the real thing instead of the cheap imitation, they're suddenly surprised.

It's called loyalty to the base and the Democratic party knows nothing about such a silly notion.
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. Agree
A vote for Kerry or Edwards may be a vote for survival but ABBer's lose me when they say " Let's get any Dem in and THEN work on change".

There is an axiom in negotiation that goes like this " The value of services is greatly diminished after the service has been rendered."

In other words, if one of these Dems get in come November there will be no incentive for them to change the status quo. We will be rubber stamping a spineless way of doing politics. Real change would have to be negotiated BEFOREHAND. Or they would have to lose and thereby come to realize that their way of doing business doesn't sell with us.

A vote for Kerry or Edwards will most likely save our country but it will NOT facillitate real change. So I'll likely vote ABB in November but please don't tell me it's anything more than that.
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I agree with you - what I hope to accomplish with ABB
With any Democratic candidate we not only get Bush out of the White House, we also get Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rove, etc. out of the driver's seat. And this time, unlike in 1994 and 1998, we will be watching for these hawks' influence on a Democratic White House's policies.

But I don't advocate waiting to work on changing the Democratic party, I just think we are making a mistake to try to do it from the top down. I go into detail in post #8 of this thread.
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BillZBubb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Who said it was any more than that?
ABB is about getting Bush* out PERIOD. It doesn't mean the Democratic Party will change and no one is claiming it will. It does mean Bush* and his cabal of fascist thugs will be gone.

I don't care what position our candidate took on any particular issue before Nov 2004--he will get my vote. Whoever it is will be a hell of a lot better for this country than Bush*. I won't hold our candidate to any litmus test of ideological purity. That is ABB.

If you want to change the Democratic Party, work on bringing that about. But don't think for one minute that a Bush* win in this election will help move the Democrats in the direction you want. It will be a disaster for all concerned.
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. What History is repeating?
- Clinton was a great man and president...but a lousy Democrat. He and his 'third way' new Democrats sold out the party and compromised us right into the minority. On top of that...he put himself in a position to be bullied into submission with his indiscretions.

Are you not saying then that Gore was a lousy Democrat? There is little doubt in my mind that if Clinton had been able to run in 2000 he'd still be President. And which is it? Did Clinton "sell out the Party" or did he get "bullied into submission". I'm confused.

- The New Democrats didn't really want Gore as president...which is why they turned their backs on him during the recount and when he considered running again. While it's true that Gore used to be part of the DLC crowd...they parted ways when he began rejecting their advice to sleep with the enemy.

The Repukes had very powerful machinery in place in Florida. IMHO the Democrats were putting up a pretty decent fight until the Supreme Court weighed in. I don't know why Gore decided not to run in 2004 other than his public comments. Are you a personal friend of Gore? Do you know something that the rest of us don't?

- Where does this leave the Democratic party in 2004? Our best chance at winning the White House is gone now that the party has exiled Gore. We're left with candidates that support many of the issues Bush* will use to brag about his 'bipartisan' leadership. Democrats can't really campaign on many of the relevant issues...like election fraud/BBV, Patriot Act(s), corporate/government corruption and lies that drove us to war...because they've either participated or refused to investigate or hold Bush* accountable.

Gore again, eh? If you want to make up shit about how the Democratic Party "exiled" someone why don't you pick from the 10 people who actually DID run for President? Did the DLC "exile" Lieberman?

Bush* won't be bragging about his "bi-partisan" leadership this year. He did that in 2000. Even many Republicans know this is a crock of shit. And where do all YOUR "relevant" issues stand with most voters? So, the Dems need to frame the debate around issues important to you? Yea, let's not discuss anything "trivial" like the Economy, Education, the Environment, Health Care, Job Creation, Poverty, et al. That would just divert attention away from what's really important in "Q's world".

- There are some real fighters in the house and senate...but most Americans wouldn't know that unless they stay glued to CSPAN 24 hours a day. These brave Dems spend literally dozens of hours each month defending Democratic positions and lambasting the Bush* administration...only to be ignored or marginalized by the mainstream media and conservative Democrats.

Ahhh....maybe your problem is that you do watch CSPAN 24 hours a day. I've seen plenty of Democrats speaking out on mainstream media. As a matter of fact I'd even go so far to say that the Democrats have had a fairly significant voice over the last few months.

- You'll hear complaints about Bush* from the Right...but they will indeed vote for him rather than stay home or vote Democratic. It's wishful thinking to believe that Republicans will risk losing the White House and power by making it easier for Democrats to win. As much as some GOPers may dislike Bush's* policies...they hate Democrats and their 'socialism' even more.

I don't give a shit what the Right Wing Republicans will do in November. What I do care about is the 200% to 300% turnout in the Dem primaries compared to 2000. What does that say to you? To me it says people realize that they "screwed up" in 2000 and let Bush* become selected and they aren't going to make that same mistake twice.

- Here's my prediction: Everything will stay the same after the 2004 election. Bush* will stay in our White House and the Houses will maintain about the same balance of power. In other words...we'll remain the minority party. The New Democrats will blame liberals/progressives for the loss and remain beholden to corporate interests. Republicans and Neocons will consider a Bush* 'win' as a mandate to take the country even further to the right.

I respect your opinion. And I hope you are wrong. Also, the Repukes are counting on a Bush* win. If you think the last 4 years were bad, wait till Bush* knows he's on the way out during the next 4 years. You aint seen nuttin' yet if Bush* remains in power......

- Call it pessimism if you will...but this is most likely the reality if we can't convince the Democratic party (leadership) to stop moving to the right and compromising with the transparently corrupt Bush* government. History repeats.

No, I don't call it pessimisn. I call it apathy. I call it a mis-guided understanding of who the enemy is. I call it weighing your own personal agenda as being above the needs of all Americans. I call it elitism. I call it horseshit.

Oh yea, and what is this "history repeating" stuff? What do you speak of here?

- Have a great Sunday and give your kids a hug.

Thanks, but I don't have any kids.
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SaddenedDem Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Where were you in 2002?
Oh yea, and what is this "history repeating" stuff? What do you speak of here?

When the Republicans kicked our ass and then handed it to us on a silver platter?

I know you'd rather pretend it never happened but some of us worked our ass off to prevent it while the Democrats in DC defeated our every effort.

As long as the Democratic party continues to play republican lite, voters will continue to vote for the REAL republicans and leave the fake ones in the background.

Frankly, where the hell have you been since 1994? That's the history we speak of - Democrats getting their asses kicked for 10 years. You know, the year this country decided to go for the REAL republicans and have done so ever since.
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Let me think.........
I was high most of the time in the 60's and 70's, but 2002?....1994?

This is 2004. An I'm not high. Well, I was a few weeks ago after surgery...popping a few "limbaughs".

The repukes didn't "kick our ass" in 2002 or 1994. The republicans would like you to believe that they kicked our ass, and you seem to be buying into it. And there you go again..."some of us worked our ass off to prevent it while the Democrats in DC defeated our every effort."

I won't compare my 2002 resume with yours. Not important. As long as you believe that the Democrats are the "enemy" there isn't much I can say to fix that.
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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. The repukes didn't "kick our ass" in 2002
They won a handful of seats in the House, and even less in the Senate. Furthermore, is a few tens of thousands of voters (nationally) voted differently (as opposed to the HALF MILLION that Gore won by) it would have been a Dem blowout.

But the kicker is how the "great President" Clinton sold out the party and weakly fought the right-wing. Now *that's* greatness!
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SaddenedDem Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. They took control of every seat of government power
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 01:56 PM by SaddenedDem
House, Senate, Governorships.

How is that NOT an ass kicking?

You can't revise history either, just like the Bushies can't.

on edit:
They took control of the Georgia Governor's mansion which had been in Democratic control for 134 years. Plus the Georgia Senate seat, plus the Georgia State Congress.

Let's talk about your revisionism.
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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Untrue. No they didn't
The Repugnants had SCOTUS, the House, and the White House before the 2002 Elections. They only took the Senate in 2002 and that was only due to a very few victories.

You can't revise history either, just like the Bushies can't

You're the one who has revised history. Or at least, you tried.

They took control of the Georgia Governor's mansion which had been in Democratic control for 134 years. Plus the Georgia Senate seat, plus the Georgia State Congress...Let's talk about your revisionism.

I'd rather discuss the revisionism that places the GA. Governor's mansion in Washington DC
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SaddenedDem Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. And GAINED seats in Congress
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 03:12 PM by SaddenedDem
And the Governor's mansions across the country.

And if you don't think that the Governor's mansion holds massive power in elections, I refer you to Florida, 2000.

I also refer you to the massive press statements on the 2001 Governor's race in Virginia and how the DNC expressed such joy in winning a Democratic seat and what it meant for "our" return to power.

I think Terry McAuliffe would disagree with you about Governor's mansions.
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sangha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Very incoherent and avoids the issue
You claimed that the Repukes "took control of every seat of government power" in 2002 when the truth is that they already had The House, The White House, and the Supreme Court. Instead of acknowledging your overheated hyperbole, you chose to latch onto a minor point that even if you are right about does nothing to support your ealier mistaken claim.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. On the Gore thingy...
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 11:53 AM by Q
- Gore was prevented from even considering gettting back into the race. Lieberman was 'allowed' to run because he's in good standing with the DLC corporate conservative Dems.

- Look back at news articles from that time. It's plain that the DLCers and others within the party didn't want Gore's 'populist' platform to take hold with the voters.

- It's not 'apathy' that will put Bush* back in our WH. It's fanaticism, zealotry, nationalism and RWing hatred of all things Democrat.

- And...if you don't have kids...give yourself a hug. It's a long hard road to the 2004 election. The Bush* gang is going to get real dirty...although Bush* himself will be perceived as staying out of the fray.
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F.Gordon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. You know I love ya' Q
Wouldn't pick on you if I didn't.

And I disagree. 2000 was ALL about apathy, and it can have a serious impact on 2004....but I don't see that this year. (well, outside DU)And ya' know what? I HOPE the rw mutherfruggers go all out with the "hate thingee". It implies that they are on the defensive. They are on the ropes and going down for the count. If that's all Bush* can muster up, then voters will see through that. I have faith in Americans. Clinton's approval numbers actually went UP after the impeachment vote.

I'll ask my wife to give me a hug. Where the hell is she..... Yes, this year will be a stressful one but I'm already planning a two month party after the 1st of November. I'm staying focused on the prize...

Peace.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Apathy is always a problem...
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 01:57 PM by Q
...but we can't forget that Gore received more votes than Clinton OR Bush*. The more votes the better...but one could hardly label it apathetic. The Bushies certainly weren't apathetic...as they went about disenfranchising Democratic voters with gusto.

- An underlying problem is that Blacks turned out in record numbers to vote for Gore...but the 'party' slapped them in the face by not defending their civil rights in the matter of purged votes and other abuses by the opposition.

- My point is that the Democratic party no longer seems 'beholden' to its base...having gone after corporate cash and 'other' special interests.
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
8. How to convince the Democrats to stop moving to the right
The discussion on this has been largely from the top down. Get a non-DLC candidate in the White House 2004 for example. But I think the way to get to these guys is from the bottom up, and here's why.

The key to turning people away from the conservative Democrats is to educate them. Look beyond the talking points, to what the DLC actually stands for. (I have some examples below.) I have always suspected that many DLC members don't really understand what kind of group they are signing up with and do it for the promise of easy campaign money and support as they advance their political careers. We must also educate the non-DLC people, politicians and their supporters, so they understand what is happening around them as well.

The DLC membership goes far beyond the US Congress, all the way down through state, county and local city governments. Of the 420 New Democrat members (what the DLC members are called) only 100 are in the US Congress. The rest are local. There are also the people on the 100 New Dem Leaders to Watch for 2000 and 2003; people running for office that are committed to the DLC because of campaign financing. (links for these lists below)

I believe we need to start with the lower level members first. For one thing, they are more accessable. It's tough to get much face time with US Senators, but many local politicians have time set aside to meet with their local constituents. The other reason is they are less dependent on money for their campaigns than US Congressmen are. Maybe a better way to put it is it takes less money to run local campaigns and an activated base can do more damage. And their base is smaller - one city, county, parish or township for example - so it is easier to spread the word.

The other reason I believe we must start from the bottom up is the media. While we have been running into bricked up walls in trying to get the networks and major media conglomerates to address this, local newspapers and radio stations are not (always) under the same power structure and much more accessable and open. Especially when talking about local politics.

Let's start by making DLC membership something politicians run from instead of embracing.

-----------
Who the DLC is and what they stand for:

I encourage people to start by reading this article from the April 23, 2001 issue of The American Prospect, "How the DLC Does It."

<snip>

Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

<snip>

Though the DLC offers a nominal $50 membership to anyone interested, its mass base is minuscule. "There's a New Democrat audience of about 5,000 to 10,000 people who get our stuff on a regular basis," says Matthew Frankel, the DLC's spokesman. And with a nonexistent grass-roots presence, the DLC is generally unknown except to practitioners of "inside baseball" politics. Yet the affiliation of scores of members of Congress has enabled the DLC to establish alliances with Fortune 500 corporate supporters, particularly along the so-called K Street corridor of Washington-based lobbyists and in high-tech enclaves such as California's Silicon Valley.

<snip>

In 1996 Lieberman, Breaux, and Simon Rosenberg founded the New Democrat Network political action committee. "Our role is to add political muscle," says Rosenberg. In the 1997–1998 reporting period, its first full cycle, NDN raised $1.4 million directly, and another $1.2 million in so-called "bundled" contributions, gathered at fundraisers for individual candidates and funneled through NDN. In the 1999–2000 period, NDN more than doubled its take, raising $4 million directly and bundling $1.45 million more, plus $450,000 for GoreLieberman. Nearly $2 million of NDN's take in the last cycle came in large, unregulated soft-money chunks from companies such as Aetna, AT&T, and Microsoft and from trade groups such as the Securities Industry Association, who helped sponsor a $1.2-million fundraiser honoring Lieberman on February 13.

NDN's brochures sound like investment prospectuses. "NDN acts as a political venture capital fund to create a new generation of elected officials," says the PAC. "NDN provides the political intelligence you need to make well-informed decisions on how to spend your political capital. Just like an investment advisor, NDN exhaustively vets candidates and endorses only those who meet our narrowly defined criteria."

Much, much more: http://www.prospect.org/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html

In case anyone thinks that this 3 year old article unfairly illustrates the DLC allegiance to its corporate sponsors, I suggest reading PPI's Policy report dated February 2004, "A Return to Fiscal Responsibility - A Progressive Plan to Slash the Deficit." For example, on page 20 in a section talking about forming a Corporate Subsidy Reform Commission to decide what corporate subsidies to cut and what to keep, they say this:

<snip>

The commission idea is based on the recognition that there are legitimate differences of opinion as to what constitutes a "corporate subsidy" in the budget or tax code - not to mention powerful pressures on members of Congress to defend subsidies with a special impact on their states or districts. Like the highly successful Defense Base Closing Commission, the Corporate Subsidy Reform Commission would be an independent body required to submit a package of budget and tax subsidies to be eliminated, after presidential and congressional review, on an up-or-down vote in Congress.

In essence, the commission approach would provide political "cover," and an opportunity for involvement, for many members of Congress who oppose all subsidies in principle but support some subsidies in practice.

more: http://www.ppionline.org/documents/deficit_plan_0104.pdf

Go beyond the talking points to the meat of the DLC agenda and you find these are not "Centrist Democrats," they are lapdogs for corporate special interests and support the idea of an American empire.

DLC Agenda (released July 27, 2003) http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251925&kaid=128&subid=174

It is quite possible to be a centrist without supporting the DLC. For those that do, it is important that they understand who is writing the the DLC agenda and policy.

The top of the DLC internet home page has a link to the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI), which was formed to create policy for the DLC. The DLC and PPI are very intertwined. Al From, DLC founder, is the chairman of PPI. The DLC website shows joint contact info for the organizations and the same person answers the phone for both (202-547-0001 PPI, 202-546-0007 DLC). The press e-mail for both DLC and PPI is press@dlcppi.org.

Will Marshall is the president and founder of the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI). Before that he was the policy director for the DLC. He is also one of the select people who actually signed the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) statements on post war Iraq, along with a few frequent Blueprint authors (the DLC magazine). He is also an advisor to the Committee to Liberate Iraq (CLI), who's mission is to "engage in educational and advocacy efforts" in support of liberating the Iraqi people. Translation: it serves as another "authority" to support the PNAC agenda, which it does very well. CLI is loaded with PNAC'ers, including 3 of the board of directors.

PNAC was created in 1997 and its founders include Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and Jeb Bush (to name a few of the major players of the Bush administration). They issued a report in
September 2000 titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses; Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century" which is pretty much a blueprint for the National Security Strategy released by the Bush administration
in September 2002. More to the point, it lays out exactly what we are seeing - the defense budget raised to 3.8% of the GDP, multiple, simultaneous major theater wars to show the world our power, removal of Saddam Hussein and the establishment of an American protectorate in Iraq, attempts to replace organizations like the UN and NATO as the world's political leadership and "constable" - and much, much more.

Although Will Marshall (and the rest of the DLC/PPI) has been pushing a slightly sanitized, politically correct neo-con-lite agenda for years, it is just recently that he came out of the closet with his
official PNAC/CLI affiliations. The PNAC statements were released in March 2003 and CLI was formed in the fall of 2002. Like many of the neo-cons, he seems to be more brazen and open than ever before.

Read The Blueprint, the DLC's magazine for examples of the PNAC influence (note the dates):

America's New Mission
By Will Marshall The Blueprint Magazine 11/15/01

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?&kaid=124&subid=307&contentid=3916


The Case Against Saddam
By Khidir Hamza The Blueprint Magazine 11/15/01

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?&kaid=124&subid=307&contentid=3926


Why it's Time to Revolutionize the Military
By James R. Blaker and Steven J. Nider The Blueprint Magazine 2/17/01

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=124&subid=159&contentid=2980


They were laying the groundwork for the PNAC agenda just prior to and after 9/11.

More links:

DLC website: http://www.ndol.org/

New Dem Directory: http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm?viewAll=1

100 New Democrats to Watch for 2000: http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=104&subid=210&contentid=1804

100 New Democrats to Watch for 2003: http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251581&kaid=104&subid=210

PPI website: http://www.ppionline.org/

CLI website: http://209.50.252.70/index.shtml

PNAC Iraq statements: http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqstatement-031903.htm

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqstatement-032803.htm


Info on PNAC:

The President's Real Goal in Iraq
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution: 9/29/02 By Jay Bookman

http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/opinion/0902/29bookman.html


Of Gods and Mortals and Empire
By William Rivers Pitt t r u t h o u t | Perspective Friday 21 February 2003

http://truthout.org/docs_02/022203A.htm


Blood Money
By William Rivers Pitt t r u t h o u t | Perspective Thursday 27 February 2003

http://truthout.org/docs_03/022803A.shtml


A copy of the Project for the New American Century's September 2000 report titled "Rebuilding America's Defenses; Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century" can be viewed at http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

A copy of the National Security Strategy of the United States dated September 2002 can be viewed at http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nss.pdf

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belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Thank you. And per "bottom up:" that's what the RRR has been doing...
the Radical Religious Right, that is. For over twenty years. They started with grassroots; now they have a chokehold on the Republican Party. I think overt and covert fighting both have their place. Short-term *and* long-term. Fringe and moderate. We need it all.

Look, I was for Dean, and I'm disappointed that flamed out, for whatever combination of reasons; but I'm more than willing to get behind Kerry, short-term. And yes, one can still work long-term even if a so-called "Republican lite" (actually, Kerry's more left-wing than Dean on at least some issues, corporate backing or not) wins for now. Look at it this way: there were and are a number of ultra rightwingers who thought Reagan was too far to the left. And look where we are now: with someone who makes Reagan look like he *was* a moderate, in comparison. Why? Because some people never give up. We need to be the same way if we don't want to be taken to a place that makes *now* look like a left-wing paradise. Sad but true.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. Thanks for the links and insight...
...this paragraph really stood out:

"Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. But I thought that Democratic Party "traditional interest groups"
ARE the Democratic Party.

So he's saying that they're trying to elect leaders who won't support the positions of the Democratic Party's "traditional interest groups"?

But, then they'd be Republicans, wouldn't they?
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IkeWarnedUs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. By george I think she's got it!
The DLC is a Trojan horse for the neo-cons to infiltrate the Democratic party.

Gives people the illusion of a two party system, without all that pesky opposition.
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick
:kick:
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rocktop15 Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. I'm ABB!!!
Hey all. I am definitly voting for Kerry (or whoever else may be the nom. come Nov.) but he will not make the radical changes that the posters above me have mentioned. Kucinich. Here's a guy who had major plans on how to change the country. "Healing hands." However cheesy that may sound, it is true. The only two vastly liberal Democrats have garnered about $900,000 combined, so far. Judging by this, the party is starting to become more and more dedicated to the soft money issues at hand. I'm 18 and am scared of what will happen to this country in twenty to thirty years if we don't have change NOW. I voted for Clark in the Tennessee primarys.......the same day he dropped out.....Kerry is a great contender but his voting record, the large amount of soft money he garnered, and his post-Vietnam history takes votes away. ABB!!!
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Hi rocktop15!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
26. there are times when I think that indeed, Bush will reign for another four
Edited on Sun Feb-22-04 05:21 PM by Marianne
and it is, indeed, depressing, especially when it seems we have virtually , few exepted,no one person who is willing to stand up to him and his fascisims and call him on what he is.

I do not understand why this is happening. I am not that politically astute to understand why virtually NO ONE is willing to call a spade a spade and expose Bush for what he is.

Are we in another universe, I ask myself.

Am I just too old and out of the loop and do not realize the current trends in politics? I ask myself.

I do however recognize right from wrong, and Bush is just plain WRONG. and he is just plain STUPID and he is just plain
EVIL

He has garnered in to his campaign war chest, enormous amounts of blood money. If I were a Democratic candidate I would point out how obscene his campaigning is to raise this amount of money for himself,(he is running unopposed) while people in this country are suffering from lack of a job and for lack of health care or whose children are not being provided with an adequate nutritional diet. And he, the strutting, elbows out, palms facing backwards, ass stuck out of the pleat in the suit, asshole, all dressed up, commander codpiece devotes all this energy away from his job as president, in order to accumulate obscene amounts of money to assure that he will be elected this time--and boy, what paybacks he has logged in to.

Here he is, the strutting, bloviating, asshole, AWOL commander in thief, all dressed up in the romantic, bred of "heroes" military costume, raising obsecene amounts of money from big corporations expecting to get paid back, while humane beings, little children even, suffer for lack of money.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. You don't have to be 'politically astute' to understand...
...what's going on. Neither does age have anything to do with it. A gut feeling will do nicely.

- We continue to hear excuses from the 'right' of the Democratic party. It's clear they don't want to fight him...they want to JOIN him and share his power. We can argue the merits of this all day...but in the end the Republicans and Bushies have USED conservative Democrats to weaken and then marginalize the Democratic party.
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gate of the sun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-22-04 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. I can see you scenario panning out
and i would also like to add something about ABB it sends a message that we are not really behind our candidate anyway and the voters and only voting to out bush....which shouldn't be the only thing a party stands for.

It's an opposition vote and that's it. Not much to really offer people.People are scared of what will happen if george gets in another 4 years so possibly just possibly and if the election is clean bush might get out.

I also agree the dem party needs to stop moving to the right,stop compromising and show some strength and integrity.There are things people can get behind issue's that have real meaning to people. Then not only would we be able to out george we could stand for something as well.

Sorry my post is a little jumbled.
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. It's a good post....
..which makes a valid point. We wouldn't need a concept like ABB if we had strong leadership that actually represented the MAJORITY of Democrats.

- And it's it strange that in a supposedly free country...we have to wonder if the next election will be 'clean'?

- It seems as if the Dem party expects to win by default.
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-23-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Again I restate Bush said on MTP
Edited on Mon Feb-23-04 06:53 PM by candy331
to Tim Russert that he would not loose. He is either too stupid to realize he's wrong or he knows something that others should and better know. Instead of dems focusing on electronic machines hammering home at every opportunity that they are circumspect of the machines they spend time drumming people out of the race in a still somewhat Democratic country. So what if a record number of people do go to the polls, what will happen if the machines steal votes same as stealing by paper in 2000. Seems now Kerry will be the man so considering he is said to say "quit crying in your teacups" in 2000 is it expected he will stand up this time against theft?
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