Who is the most democratic big democracy?The EU,The USA, India or other?

[billbuckhead]

[sweetheart]

1. in depends what you mean with demos?

Does it mean an authoritarian government speaking wisely on behalf of the people without perhaps much electoral participation?

None of the countries mentioned has effective participatory democratic structures.. and are ALL somewhat rather authoritarian.

That said, i vote Lula's brazil as being most connected to the people's conscience.

[Deja Q]

2. I saw this episode on Oprah...

Do mass human rights violations count against the idea that a country is a democracy? Better count India out then.

[joyautumn]

3. EU is scary

i don't know how to measure 'most democratic' but I know that the U.S. Bill of Rights and checks and balances are completely missing from the EU's new Constitution.

I read through the draft version of it put out last year and it promises the government will "respect" people's rights, but doesn't guarantee them, and it explicitly gives the executive branch the power to usurp any powers not explicitly granted to it in the Constitution if it deems it necessary to promote the principles of the Constitution -- one of which is the protection and promotion of European cultural values. In other words, no War Powers Act, no Freedom of Speech (look what's happening to the BBC right now), no right to bear arms, no separation of powers, scary scary scary monarchist crap clothed in nice pseudo-environmental-egalitarian-human-rights-speak.

[billbuckhead]

4. They're all pretty scary.........

compared to Canada. Just joking. Seriously, can these huge diverse nations with huge miltaryindustrialcomplexs truly ever have democracy?

[Kellanved]

12. you got that wrong

The EU constitution proposal is not meant to replace the nation constitutions already in place. The national Governments and Parliaments implement checks and balances.
The EU constitution includes the European Human Rights Convention and the European Charter of Fundamental Rights.

That said: Some member nations are very democratic, but the EU as a whole is not. The constitution would improve that, but it would still be a very indirect democracy.

[Jose Diablo]

15. If the IMF/WTO is successful in taking down America

Europe will be next.

[T_i_B]

5. USA

No way on this planet does the EU come close to being as democratic as the US. The EU has a long, long way to go on that front and the proposed EU constitution does not seem to be taking us there. :-(

The American constitution, with its checks and balances is IMHO the best constitution in the world.

[sweetheart]

11. The US is less democratic than the EU

The citizen rights of european (rich) nations, are outstanding
compared to the rights in the US.

The constitution you think works, has been completely usurped by
corporate media, which has no obligation to support democracy at all,
and election bribery and institutional corruption would render most
american elections invalid were international observers present.

The constitution is very nice indeed, but it is not in effect.
I've met many european folks who think the constitution is great.
Were they to have the benefit of a full "lifetime" of american
democracy as a citizen, likely they would take back the words.
The grass looks greener on the other side of the pond. Its a lie
like all the others.

Despite any paper discussions, the EU nations do have still
sovereignty and are free to end their relationship with the EU or
to assert national difference. This is quite different than the
ameican states where no state is free to break with the federal at
all. Washington DC had a referendum to legallize cannabis, and
it won overwhelmingly.. only to be nullified by an undemocratic
central authority. Moral, US democratic choice is window dressing
on a authoritarian system where all 3 branches of "checks and
balances" have decided to write checks and not balance anything at
all except unbridled power to overrride democracy.

The EU shows no signs of such abuse, and each nation is independent
to set its own policies in cooperation with the greater whole, but
not repressed by it. Methinks the option to separate is a powerful
force to check unbalanced powers in the EU. Now after years in the
EU, India and the USA, i've no doubt in my mind the EU is the most
democratic of them all... but given the question in this thread, as
the EU is not sovereign itself, it does not really belong in the
list anyways... none of the states are "large" democracies... and
the idea that the EU is a federal government, though half true,
also shows the false image of american's thinking its like america
with different states... an all to common mistake given the low
levels of education and high propaganda stateside. Heck, most
americans could not tell you which countries were in the EU.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. Hey! Why is the UK seperated from the EU?

Did we leave overnight and no-one told me about it?

[sweetheart]

8. And another blind vole strangled...

:-) You know why... because of that flood of "immigrants" waiting
to get free benefits and healthcare. Then this mythical force will
have the tory's and the BNP in an alliance of hatred, driving
the UK to become completely irrelevant. :-)

[thefencehurts]

7. What about Australia? :(

I think we're pretty damn democratic, especially compared to the EU.

[sweetheart]

10. Australia is a tiny population

and does not count, as otherwise canada and every other bloody
nation would be on the list.

Myself i'm thinking that democratic government fails once the
population is over 100m. Over that size, no government is
democratic, and rather an impersonal collective driven by special
interests. China, india, russia, japan, brazil, USA all support
this model. Not a single one of them is healthy.. and most are
addicts of special interests and not their own people.

[newyawker99]

13. Hi thefencehurts!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[_Jumper_]

9. Canada

Canada should be included too IMO.

[morgan2]

14. i think people confuse the word democratic

A democratic country can be very oppressive and intolerant, if thats what the majority of people want. A democracy need not have any protections for the minority. I don't really know enough about all these countries electoral systems to make a judgement on this vote.

[revcarol]

16. Other: Canada

The new shining city on the hill now that we are at the bottom of our history again

[Cptn Kirk]

17. EU hands down

Western Europe has the best govs on earth IMO. US isn't so bad, but it can't compare to western europe.

[TahitiNut]

18. Canada, the EU, then India

The GINI Index measures the distribution of wealth in a nation's economy. Most liberals would regard an index between 28 and 33 as just about optimal ("fair").

84. Canada 32 (1994)
50. India 38 (1997)
41. United States 41 (1997) (even higher these days)
15. Mexico 52 (1996)
5. Brazil 59 (1997)


The EU ... average about 33
99. Italy 27 (1995)
94. Belgium 29 (1996)
92. Germany 30 (1994)
80. Switzerland 33 (1992)
79. Spain 33 (1990)
78. Netherlands 33 (1994)
76. Greece 33 (1993)
75. France 33 (1995)
61. United Kingdom 37 (1995)


http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/eco_dis_of_fam_inc_gin_ind