I know its darkest before the dawn , but....

[Mari333]

Can any of you give me a ray of hope as to why I should continue to stay in this country? Im so tired of fighting, it seems like all day long I fight and march and call Senators and Congresspeople and yell and scream and work on the net and ...It seems like everytime I take 1 step forward the dirty bastards take us 100 steps backwards..Its a major civil war now in so many ways..
If Bu*sh and his buddies own the media, the Congress, the whole damn thing, is there any hope? I need some facts that say he wont win..But I also have my passport ready if he steals it..
I will wait in Canada for my soldier son to come home, and be ready to get my sons out of here. I guess Im just tired, dont flame me.

[SmileyBoy]

1. I'm deathly afraid of BBV/Vote rigging.

I'm afraid that Kerry will lead the polls, but then the press will manipulate the polls somehow, then the computers will take effect and * will have won by fradulent computer error.

And I'll KNOW if that happens. I don't know if I want to run to Canada by then, because I have an education to complete.

[kalian]

2. Your concerns are quite valid....

I too have been pondering the consequences if shrub gets selected
another 4 years. Unfortunately, the selections will be rigged or,
worse, martial law will be declared after another staged "terror
event".

I have lost faith in our political system and our great country
is being sold out from underneath our feet.

Its time to move on...literally...

[madmax]

3. You vent anytime you feel like Mari

You've earned that and more. I have good feelings about this election. The sheeple are getting restless.

[Wapsie B]

4. This is the only thing that helps me.

"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall. Think of it...always."
- Mohandas K. Ghandi

[Mari333]

10. christ almighty I should read my own sig line once in a while

*smacks self on head*

[Wapsie B]

12. I totally

overlooked that myself. In no way do I feel comfortable about the election. There's too much time between then and now. But the thing that calms me a little is the fact that chimpy has not drawn new voters into his fold. In order for him to legitimately win he's going to need everyone that voted for him last time plus additional new voters. Without massive voter fraud I don't see how he could actually win.

[Obamarama]

13. Hey Mari, did you see Ghandi's grandson will be in Sturgis?

Next Wednesday at the Sturges Young Auditorium...8 p.m. I beleive. I'm thinking about going.

[Mari333]

19. wow where when etc

Ill be in K zoo for the peace march on March 20th. bring the troops home now. I heard theres 600 people going to be there.

[kurtyboy]

34. "The arm of history...

...will always bend toward justice."

Civil Rights Historian Olive Taylor

[bpilgrim]

35. likewise

and when that don't work we got DU *phew*

thank GORE he 'invented' the INTERNET :bounce:

peace

[fishnfla]

5. Its not a civil war

yet. Dont let it bring you down.

[proud patriot]

6. One ray of Hope coming up

You got proud patriot and few thousand other people
in your corner .

We'll get through together :hug:

be sure to read my sigline Mari

[Poiuyt]

7. Mari, I think you are a true patriot

Our country NEEDS you

I never thought about it before, but I wonder if Jefferson, Franklin, Nathan Hale, et al ever thought that they were beating their heads against a wall. Martin Luther King?

Mari, I think that the political climate always swings like a pendulum. I'm sure that some day America will get rid of these bastards and be the great country that we are underneath.

[sweetheart]

8. No matter what these fingers say....

i've voted with my feet years ahead of you... and suprisingly, once abroad, you can still call senators, write letters and activize the
internet.

It is time to go when the thought keeps coming back to you , even
when you push it away... THAT is a sign, an omen to beat feet before bad things happen.... but if its not that solid yet, then stay and
pray.

It is much nicer outside the US. In sort of a perverse masochistic
thinking, i log on to DU to share the suffering, but were DU not on
this screen, there is no hint in daily life that bush is even in power... and geez, after all the evil government we've seen in our lifetimes.. wars and really ugly crap, i could never fault anyone for
wanting a fresh pasture.

peace,

[G_j]

9. try to hang in there

But the passport is also a wise idea!

You know I really appreciate your honesty. I often read your posts because your anger is clear and honest. It can be sort of a catharsis for me.
I don't know if I can offer you hope, but reading your posts often gives me some hope. Knowing there are people like you out there says to me there must be hope.

:toast:

[woodstockjimi]

11. why would you leave

a country that your son was serving? i know things can be frustrating but wouldn't that demeaning to your son?

[Mari333]

15. Hes not serving the United States

hes serving in a fraudulent war for PNAC and greedy oil grubbing bastards who stole the White House in 2000...thats one reason for leaving..before they take any more of my kids to their bloody illegal wars. Demeaned? the current thugs who are in the WH demean the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and everything else I ever believed in once. They demean my soldier son every day he is in that fucking illegal bloodbath.

check out other people they have demeaned

http://www.robert-fisk.com/iraqwarvictims_mar2003.htm

I dont know if I can live with myself much longer if my taxes go to this.

http://www.bringthemhomenow.com

[woodstockjimi]

18. please don't

get angry with me for asking..but does he feel the same way? If not does he know how you feel?

[Mari333]

20. Hes 21, he hates Bush and he wanted to get out of it

but then, after he tried, he decided to go, reluctantly. We let him decide for himself after begging him not to go, and begging him to please go to jail before going there. He probably thinks its not as bad as it is. No matter how many times I tried to show him the whys and reasons for this, he still chose to go. He said his whole unit was mad about going, half of them got out.

[woodstockjimi]

23. You did the right

thing letting him decide for himself. As a parent, I feel for you and I am sure every day is a struggle. He will learn from this experience. Be there for him as I know you are. I will pray for his safe return as I have relatives and friends there as well! I know it is hard but not being supportive is the wrong way to be for those of us that have friends and relatives there. BE STRONG!

[G_j]

16. it's been my impression

that she loves this country from the bottom of her heart. I'm sure her son knows this. If most others cared half as much, we wouldn't be in the state we are in.

edit, I hope I wasn't presumptious in saying that Mari. This country has been hijacked.

[Jose Diablo]

14. There are things in the world far more powerful than this band of thugs

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, believing in things unseen".

Hope and faith gives us the power to do extraordinary things. We ourselves are just ordinary people, but when powered by faith, we somehow tap into a never ending source of power.

In the end, these thugs will pass into nothing, they will turn to dust. Yet we, because of our faith will live.

When I listen to all the voices within my head, they sound like a bunch of dogs barking. If I concentrate I can stop each of those dogs one by one. Until I can hear a very quite voice, like a whisper. That voice is peaceful and very soothing. I think its God.

Fear cannot exist when there is faith.

[sweetheart]

17. faith hope and love these three...

we have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Beautifully written jellybean1 !!

peace.

[Mari333]

21. Im not religious by any means but

I keep hearing a voice in my head that says "all in gods time" ..now, that may be the voice of someone in the past who once told me to be patient, that change does not occur on my time, that change occurs on its own and plays itself out slowly and all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle fall into place when they have to..
maybe I have to decide now what is my job in my life and what is the job of the collective unconcious, and allow goodness to prevail on its own time...
Nonetheless its confusing...because I have to take care of myself first, or I cannot take care of anyone else (this is in the bible , love others AS you would love yourself)..also, the voice of Gandhi is in my head "Become that which you wish the whole world to become"
Its a precarious position for me..a rabid anti war activist with a stepson who chose to go over there , despite the information he had..he was that afraid of the military.
He did say before he left "get Bush out of office soon so I can get home"
I do think a civil war is occuring..maybe its where I live, a mostly republican town, maybe its because Ive been overseas and I have seen better places to live then here..maybe its because Im 52 and Ive been fighting the system for 30 years and it just seems to swing right after we make progress.. Maybe I want to go to a place where the progress has already been made, like Canada . I dont know..maybe I just have to see what happens as this year goes by .

[mike1963]

25. But people can be persuaded to have faith in fear, and that is what we

face.

Nothing wrong with having faith in things that are demonstrably probable, like the sun will rise in the east tomorrow, but to direct it to intangible things more properly regarded as 'hope' is misguided and potentially disastrous.

[rasputin1952]

22. The Dawn always comes...

regardless of our fears and trepidations.

We are at a turning point, and I truly believe that bush will be history after the next election. Then, we must go through the process of bringing America's warriors home from this unjust war, that will take time and real effort.

This nation has survived all types of attacks, from both external and internal enemies. I see the future as bright. The Dawn will come, but first, we must withstand the cold pre-dawn hours.

You, Hogarth and your sons, are in my thoughts and prayers. We're fighting to bring all of our forces home. Soon, we will succeed.

:hug:

O8)

[maggrwaggr]

24. I'd move if I could

I've had it with this country.

I can't move for personal reasons that are beyond me.

If you want to move, I say go for it.

[woodstockjimi]

26. FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY AND BELIEFS!!!!!

[mbee]

29. A lady called in to C-Span the other morning and said

if there is any hanky panky in the 2004 election with regard to voting she thinks there will be rioting in the streets.

[maggrwaggr]

32. I have to. I don't have any choice.

so y'all're stuck with me!

[bpilgrim]

36. lol

:hi:

peace

[camero]

33. I would too

If only to live to fight another day. Til I'm healthier anyway.

[nostamj]

27. relocating to Canada really isn't an option anymore

unless you have skills, connections, money.

bushco made sure of that long ago.

hang in there. you're not alone.

take a day or two OFF. no DU, no marches. recharge. renew.

i can't believe you of all people really want to give up.

but, do take a break.

nost

[ConsAreLiars]

28. a poem

Maybe wishful thinking, maybe utopian, but these are the words I turn to in times of despair:

GOOD DAYS COMING

Everything changes, the wheel
of the law turns without pause.

After the rain, good weather.

In the wink of an eye

The universe throws off
its muddy cloths.

For ten thousand miles
the landscape

Spreads out like
a beautiful brocade.

Gentle sunshine.
Light breezes. Smiling flowers,

Hang in the trees, amongst the
sparkling leaves,

All the birds sing at once.

Men and animals rise up reborn.

What could be more natural?

After sorrow comes happiness.

http://www.motherbird.com/hochi.html
Ho Chi Minh
Poems From Prison - Translated by Kenneth Rexroth

[AgadorSparticus]

30. If it makes you feel any better, you are not alone.

Like you I was paralyzed with fear until my husband reminded me that everything is cyclical. No matter how much money or power those thugs amass, they will experience their demise. It is just a matter of time. Hang in there. You can't leave and miss all the fun. The hard part is putting up with him the past couple of years. Now you get to kick his ass out the door. Stay and enjoy the fun that is around the corner.

[calimary]

31. Hi Mari - my heart goes out to you, yet again.

Sometimes I turn to a quote or two, for whatever it's worth.

"The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority." ~Martin Luther King, Jr., 1963

"Before dawn today, I was reading Churchill's words to the French command in the hours before as the Panzers breached the defenses of Paris. Churchill told those preparing to surrender, 'Whatever you may do, we shall fight on forever and ever and ever.'" – Greg Palast

NOBODY'S gonna flame you here. You've earned our love, respect, sympathy, friendship, and support.

I know how you feel (in a minor, lesser way - my son's only 11). Sometimes I wonder if it's just too hopeless. But then, I realize that I JUST. CAN'T. GIVE. UP. If I do, the bad guys win, completely. I will NEVER give up. Even if the schmucks do "win" again, they will lie uneasily in their beds. And they may not even know why. But I do. It's because people like me are out there lurking somewhere. And there are more who feel like me, every day. And they can never know who they're really looking at or trusting. I also know that if they can manage to get away with not answering for their crimes here on this earthly plane, they won't be NEARLY so lucky in the next one.

Stay and fight and keep the faith if you can. If not, be comforted in knowing that plenty of us will be staying behind to "fight on forever and ever and ever." These scumbuckets will never win it all, because they can NEVER win over people like me. EVER.

[demsrule4life]

37. Your son is an adult

adults do not let other adults make life changing decisions for them. Be proud.