Nader running? Great News. Here's why...

[TruthIsAll]

He will pull votes from Bush leaning Greens and otherwise non-voters.

I cannot believe there are Democrats who would vote for Nader after all that we have been through with Bush, since the Florida scams and the SCOTUS coup.

Last time he got 2.8 million votes, of which 2 million might have gone to Gore. He will pull less than a million votes this time - getting them from those who would have voted for Bush.

Greens who vote for Nader would never have voted Dem in any case.

[salinen]

1. Bush leaning Greens!

Is there such an animal?

[KissMyAsscroft]

2. Yeah, ok dude!

Back to the drawing board!

[Elidor]

28. God, that phrase makes me laugh hysterically!

Bush-leaning Greens! Bush-leaning Greens! Has anyone seen the Bush-leaning Greens?

[EXE619K]

3. You might want to re-consider the "Bush leaning Greens" bit....

However, You are partially right..I think.

There are "I hate Dems and GOP" crowd and they could make a difference.

I call these people..."The Jesse Ventura" party....at least here in Minnesota.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Champion Jack]

9. "Ralph Nader is like a saint coming down to earth and live amongst us"

Good one!!!

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

[dweller]

5. Ralph addressed this in his Commondreams post

basically he pointed out the incumbent party voters were the ones that sought the 3rd party. In 2000 that would have been the Dems, now the Pubs.
And if, and that is a BIG IF his theory is right, he will have been hated by the Dems and then loved by them in 2004 for the damage he causes to the other side.
But what would such an outcome prove if this scenario works out? His thesis of the 2 parties being indistinguishable in the long run, and the need for a 3rd...
:shrug:

but you are right, Dems have had it with St. Ralph.

peace,
dp

[dweller]

11. my bad, i meant Nation article/letter

in Counterpunch
http://www.counterpunch.org/nader02192004.html

appropriately, the 13th paragraph down.

sorry,
dp

[Mari333]

6. ABB or you are GOP

Its that simple. Anyone who votes for Nader will be just as responsible for allowing our kids to die and be maimed over there as anyone else. bring the troops home, vote Bush out.
ABB


http://www.bringthemhomenow.com
http://www.mfso.org

[BillZBubb]

13. Well said, Mari333!

A vote for ANYONE but the Democratic nominee is a vote for Bush*.

I will treat anyone who tells me they didn't vote for Bush* or the Democratic nominee as a Repug stooge. They deserve as much contempt as a Bushie*. The stakes are too high this time for any game playing.

[Woodstock]

15. Agree, this is a matter of life or death

Leave your ego at the door and vote Democratic this time.

[Andy_Stephenson]

20. But the front runners

voted for war.

[bvar22]

22. logical disconnect ?

:shrug:

[Lindacooks]

25. So?

Voting for war is not the same thing as initiating it and pushing it in the first place.

No one candidate is perfect. But ANY Democrat is better than ANY Repukes OR Nader.

[KG]

7. Bush leaning Greens?

snorf. :eyes:

[hlthe2b]

12. Bush-leaning Greens: as rare as the "missing link," I'd say......

hmmmmm, so much for that argument...

[TruthIsAll]

33. Bush-leaning Greens is not a joke. See Selection 2000.

In Selection 2000, it is estimated that about 2/3 of Green voters would have gone to Gore, the remainder to Bush. Of courde, some would have stayed home and not voted.

So there were anywhere from 500,000 to 1 million Bush-leaning Greens. That's a fact.

You have had your fun. But remember:

TIA

[Woodstock]

16. Environment-hating Greens, for sure

Anyone who would willfully let Bush remain in office by voting for someone who can't win hates the environment.

Bush hates the environment.

I'm seeing some leaning here.

[Orangepeel]

8. Hopefully, he'll make our candidate LOOK less liberal

Ideally, Nader will get very few votes from progressives who don't want bush re-elected, but will give voters in the mushy middle an excuse to vote for our candidate by making him look more centrist.

[knight_of_the_star]

10. Stupid Raphie

I don't think the Green Party will accept him.

Sorry Ralphie, we're having something called a PRIMARY. Have you ever heard of it?

[RowWellandLive]

14. "Bush leaning Greens"

:wtf:

[Cleita]

17. Depends on the party.

If the Green Party accepts him again as their candidate then I have no respect for them, and I am very close to registering Green. If he decides to run Reform, Libertarian or whatever semi-facist party suits him, I'm all for it. To bad old Ross Perot won't try again as well.

[TruthIsAll]

18. Pissed off Repukes will cast a protest vote for Ralph Rotten

Those who would never vote Dem now have a chance to vent..

[devinsgram]

19. He claims he wants to help the people,

by giving them another choice which is all well and good. I just don't understand why he can wait till we get rid of *. What part of that doesn't he get. We need as much help as possible and he will only hinder the process. The only thing I can figure out is his ego is bigger than his brain.

[BiggJawn]

21. "Bush-leaning Greens"? Dude! Don't bogart that fatty!

Pass it around, it must be some wild-assed shit!

Oh! I get it! Kind of like a Green version of Zell Miller, right?

This is what will happen. They will ignore Howard Dean and stay home in those states where King Ralph fails to get on the ballot. "I'm sending a 'message'..."

[bvar22]

23. With your permission, daveskilt

The following was posted as a new thread in GD, and was locked by moderators as a dulicate. I think daveskilt post deserves to be aired and discussed. I copied the following from the locked thread.

Reasons Nader running is a GOOD thing.

1. Huzzah for democracy - 2 parties only was always a bad idea. (see simpsons episode with kang and kronos posing as bob dole and bill clinton)

2. He can be the attack dog. He can say anything about Bush knowing that it isnt going to alter his chances of actually winning.

3. The repubs are going to have to deal with him on some level.

4. In swing states anyone informed enough to vote for Nader is informed enough to know that in their state they need to beat bush and vote dem this time (I'm assuming that nader voters would want rid of bush as much if not more than dems)

5. Nader brings people out to the polls who may not have voted (again huzzah for democracy) he gets people interested in issues that they care about that are often neglected - many of those people will hear his message and think - hey this bush guy really is awful on issues I care about, I will show up and vote this time (maybe for nader maybe for the dem, but not bush) or some who would have voted bush will hear Nader and decide not to.

6. Will he pull some dem voters? yes probably. but after 2000 I find it unlikely that florida or NH voters will risk it - states like Utah which will vote republican no matter what (I wonder what would happen if Hilary Clinton ran for president as a republican. I think many scannersesque head explosions in Utah would result. they would have no idea what to do ) - sure go vote Nader.

7. He can help keep the democratic party honest and not bush lite. He pulls support if the dems dont stay in touch with the left base.


I really don't see a reason for the anti-Nader hysterics. Is the Democratic party sooo weak that a single man can destroy it. If Nader's message is strong enough to destroy the Democratic Party, then we have a REAL PROBLEM.

[BillZBubb]

26. You need to understand why we have a real problem with Nader

I really don't see a reason for the anti-Nader hysterics. Is the Democratic party sooo weak that a single man can destroy it. If Nader's message is strong enough to destroy the Democratic Party, then we have a REAL PROBLEM.

You apparently don't understand non-linear systems. Small actions can produce huge repercussions.

Nader's message won't destroy the Democratic party. He's a flake and a vast majority of Democrats know that. Unfortunately, though, some who might otherwise vote for the Democrat will vote for Nader--that is inevitable in spite of what you think. Others might not vote at all since Nader will repeat the LIE that there is no difference between the Democrats and the Repugs.

The Democrats message is plenty strong, but Democrats suffer from key electoral disadvantages: the have less money to get the message out, they are not the favorites of the corporate media so their message gets distorted, and their voters lack the fanaticism of the right.

What all that means is a close election is likely. What Nader will do is pull marginal votes from the Democratic presidential candidate. Since the elections in many states might be decided by a few thousand votes, Nader can tip that state to Bush*.

[bvar22]

27. OK. so let's kill Ralph...

...to save the Democratic Party.

What you don't understand is that Ralph is NOT the problem.

[BillZBubb]

29. Nader is ONE PART of the problem

I pointed out to you three of the biggest problems: Money, Media, and Intensity.

Those make for a close election. Nader then flips it to Bush*.
This really isn't that hard to understand.

[bushwakker]

24. Environmentalists for Bush?

pretty small group.

[brainwashed_youth]

30. HAHAHAHA!!!!

I want what you're smoking

[wellstone_democrat]

31. "Bush* leaning Green"

I honest to god laughed until I cried.
I am often amused on DU but this was side-splitting hilarious!

[Ksec]

32. I agree the votes for Nader will come from repukes

who are dissatisfied with bushawol and his failures. Im not worried the slightest bit about Nader and he may be a big plus for us by pulling votes away from the idiotrepukes. Theyre the ones who are pissed about his lack of leadership. Theyre also the ones who will vote for Nader as a protest vote.

[Robin Hood]

34. All right!

put down the bong and enjoy the high.