What do fundies really think? Ask me anything!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

I know fudamentalist Christian conservatives, and I am familiar with their beliefs and organizations. I am culturally Christian, with no metaphysical beliefs. There is so much misinformation and disinformation about Christians and especially right-wing Evangelicals and Fundamentalists on DU, here's my community service: Ask me serious questions about them and their movement and I can probably give you an accurate answer.

[Runesong]

1. Think?

[Fargin Ice Hole]

2. Is it true Jesus could Kick Mohamed's ass?

<>

[skippysmom]

3. Okay, here's a couple

1. Why do fundies believe they can dictate their beliefs to everyone else in this country -- Christians of other denominations, Jews, Muslims, etc.?

2. Why do they hate Catholics so damn much?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

6. good questions

"Why do fundies believe they can dictate their beliefs to everyone else in this country -- Christians of other denominations, Jews, Muslims, etc.?"

The same reason that Democrats and Jews and Muslims do - they are human beings with ideologies, and many of them like to promote those ideologies. Christians also have the benefit of being a majority of Americans, so that's probably the reason for so much pushiness.

"Why do they hate Catholics so damn much?"

Protestantism is, fundamentally, an anti-Catholic movement.

[kiahzero]

17. There's a difference

Evangelical faiths such as many varities of Christianity and Islam differ from other ideologies, in that the believers accept only their viewpoint to the exclusion of others.

Jews don't proselytize... in fact, Judaism discourages converts. Buddhism does, to a certain extent, but only to those who see life as suffering.

Most Democrats and Republicans can accept that not everyone is going to agree with them. The more tolerant of both can understand that most people are trying to improve things, and just have different ideas on how to do that.

[wysi]

4. Why...

... do fundies believe that they worship a 'different god' than Muslims?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. that's a *very* new phenomenon - strictly post-911

in fact I'm pretty sure that popped up right after 911, with Billy Graham Jr. shamelessly pimping that nonsense so he could get popular from bigotry. I've ALWAYS heard the opposite, that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam DO worship the same God, but Christians were the only ones that did it properly :evilgrin:

[Bandit]

5. Why do "Fundamentalist Christians" want the Ten Commandments

posted and not the Beatitudes? Why do they never mention the Beatitudes? Do they ever read anything other than the Old Testiment?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

9. very good question

That's a *very* good question, and doesn't have a simple answer. I'd say it's a division between what they call "Old Testament Christians" vs "New Testament Christians" - and guess who is generally the most outspoken and aggressive at evangelizing?

The split in Protestantism (and Christians in general) goes all the way back to the begining - it's Paul vs. James.

It may seem contradictory (and it is I think) but there are a *lot* of Fundamentalists that are very hostile to the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount in general, and always try to downplay it.

[salinen]

7. I don't care what the

fundies lunatics think. What would make them go away?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. the best way to make fundies go away

If you want to make Christians go away, look at the lessons of other people who have tried to destroy a religious or ethnic group. There is the Hilter approach - simply murder as many as you can as fast as you can. Perhaps you can try the French / secular Arab approach - make wearing a cross illegal, ban Christian bumper stickers, harshly punish outward displays of religious sentiment. That seemed the way the USSR tried to destroy Christianity.

In the United States, the number one technique of demoralizing fundamentalists has always been ridicule in the press - Mencken was the master this century. Hollywood has done a great job of marginalizing Christianity, the major religion of the US, but Evangelicals especially have a knack for adopting technology as their own - watch what Gibson is doing with Passion - and how he's enlisted the Evangelical sub-media for promotion. I predict it will be bigger than anyone here realizes.

There is a stereotype among fundies that Christianity blooms under repression. Perhaps the best strategy is to "give them enough rope to hang themselves" so to speak.

[Jacobin]

11. Hmmm, oh yeah?

If martyrdome, suffering and bloody events don't energize Christians, why does the entirety of people's belief that Jesus is the son of god come from his gruesome murder on a cross and his "resurrection" three days later? I mean, why would it take THAT to make him god's son?

Also, they still talk a lot about martyrs, Romans throwing them to the lions, and so forth.

Thank you in advance for your response.

(I'm just sayin'_

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

16. you're welcome

"If martyrdome, suffering and bloody events don't energize Christians, why does the entirety of people's belief that Jesus is the son of god come from his gruesome murder on a cross and his "resurrection" three days later? I mean, why would it take THAT to make him god's son?"

I think that your reading of Christological theology is a bit skewed. I am no expert of Christological theology myself, but I don't think that Jesus getting crucified and resurrected *made* him the Son of God, that was a pre-existing state.

"Also, they still talk a lot about martyrs, Romans throwing them to the lions, and so forth."

Yeah, that's common among religious groups - think of the Pagans and the "Burning Times". Real and exaggerated historical stories of persecutions are a staple of cultural groups.

"Thank you in advance for your response. (I'm just sayin'_"

You're welcome.

[leesa]

35. I believe Hitler relied on christians in his movement, no?

[salin]

37. In this discussion... Christian and fundie seem to be used

interchangeably - and while the answers work for the fundies - they don't apply to many Christians. Of course the fundies don't recognize the rest of us as Christian...

[nwstrn]

12. What do you think is the most common type of

"misinformation and disinformation about Christians" on DU?

[Jacobin]

14. me me me!!! <raising hand>

I can answer that!!

Some on DU say that Christians engage in simulated canabalism....like they eat bread and wine and pretend its blood and flesh. I know that can't be true.

There are rumors that the bible says that if your daughte disobeys you you can sell her into slavery. I know it can't say that, cause that's just crazy.

I have some more, but my fingers are tired.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

19. "misinformation and disinformation about Christians" on DU?

Perhaps the worst sort of disinformation is about the relationship between the Protestant Churches and the Republican Party. The Protestant Churches have been in American for 350 years - the infiltration by the GOP started in the 1960s.

[wuushew]

20. Please find links supporting that statement

I believe most on this board are intelligent enough to realize that fundies are a subset of protestants.

After all not all Republicans are idiots but most idioits are Republican. See simple set theory.

[leesa]

36. So you are saying there is a relationship between Fundies and the GOP

You are pretending that we are talking about protestants when we are talking about Fundie literalists.

[bubba_fett]

13. Ok, I'll try one....

How and why would a Christian tolerate a combination of church and state?

Wouldn't the US become a Christian theocracy, torn between believers (who would be torn amongst themselves) and non-believers (who would suffer persecution, in some way or another)?

With all due respect :)

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

21. Baptists have been historically noted for advocating a strong separation

of church and state.

Protestants in general, and Baptists specifically, were founded on the concept of separation between Church and state - started by revolts against the combined religious and political power of the Vatican. There were sects that grew up advocated theocracy, like Calvinists, but these started more like communes than governments.

Believe it or not, the Southern Baptist Convention is one of the most democratic civil sector organization in existence, probably more so than the Teamsters. Each congregation elects their minister, and churches are independent and free to join and leave the Baptists Federations. At least, that's the way it used to be - the SBC especially is no longer democratic, having been taken over by political networks. Many Protestant Churches now exist mostly as tax write-offs and influence peddling for local rich businessmen of course.

Christians in general would not accept interference with their religion - and the people, Christian or otherwise, who interfere with other's religion are hypocrites of course.

[wuushew]

15. Can a person be libertarian and evangelical?

because it sure don't seem like it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. of course

Evangelicals are a sect of Protesantism in the UK and USA, and developed after the Enlightment, and very much of a product of those times. Most have supported democracy. The modern evangelicals and fundies in the US though, probably aren't though.

[Skittles]

18. two men, or two women, want to get married

how does that destroy "the sancity of marriage" when heterosexuals currently have a 50% divorce rate ???

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

23. of course it doesn't

The Fundamentalists and probably the Evangelicals would say that the "sanctity of marriage" in the US is already in bad shape. There are still a few Fundamentalist churches that won't accept divorce and remarriage, and pre-marital sex of all kind is forbidden. The Fundies did make a big fuss about divorce when it became popular, but the majority of Americans didn't agree. They know they lost that one.

The Republicans and their allied organizations in the Christian Right Wing want to make gay marriage a divisive wedge issues, and it will probably work. When a Protestant has friends in church who are LGBT, it becomes a lot less effective wedge issue.

The last 10 years has seen some break-ups in Protestant churches over ordaining women, gay marriage, and these divisions were exploited ruthlessly by Republicans.

Of course, it's not the white evangelical and fundamentalist vote that the Democrats lose on the gay marriage issue - it's the conservative African-American Protestant churches and the Latino votes that the GOP is trying to fracture from the Democratic party.

[Cat Atomic]

24. Do fundies still talk about Hal Lindsey?

When I was growing up, I remember all the fundies in my family reading The Late, Great, Planet Earth. They were all very convinced that the end of the world was coming in the 90's.

We all saw some of that same crap come up again at the end of '99.

Is there any indercurrent of embarrassment in fundie circles about these failed doomsdays? Is there some new projected doomsday that everyone is afraid of?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. That's a long tradition

Christians in general, and especially Protestants in America, have a long history of apocolypse literature - the 1970s brought a whole new generation of it. Have you ever seen the movie "A Thief in the Night"? Great film.

Most fundies believe this stuff enough to buy some books, but not enough to sell the house and move to a bunker or something. There's always some embarrassment by the people who put a lot of stake in it - but like Lindsey, they can keep at it for a while until they can't fake it anymore.

The "Left Behind" series is the big deal now - didn't they just make a movie? I read the first book it wasn't good enough to read the rest.

[wuushew]

26. What is the fundie position on consumption of alcohol?

I have an on-again off-again fundie friend who at times feels it is a sin and at other times enjoys life's pleasures.


We are not talking alcoholism here, rather light to moderate alcohol consumption in social settings.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

27. alcohol and fundies

great question. I went to a family reunion in Texas last year where I discovered they still had "dry counties" where you couldn't buy or sell alcohol.

There has always been a strain of ascetisism and teetotaling among Protestants, but mostly it's a result of the prohibition movements in the 1800s. There was rampant alcoholism and women especially organized to oppose drinking and in some cases like Prohibition make it illegal.

Alcohol consumption is generally frowned upon by Evangelicals and Fundamentalists alike. "Drunkeness" which can be defined various ways is an official sin, but drinking alcohol is not. I think you'll find Christians and Muslims in the same ballpark on that one - liberals tolerate it and conservatives don't.

[wuushew]

29. Apperently 89% of Texas is dry

Direct Shipment of Alcohol and Dry Counties in Texas

"Are there really that many dry areas in the state?"

Of Texas' 254 counties, 89% are either dry or are a patchwork of wet and dry subdivisions.

http://www.texassafetynetwork.org/news/papers/drycounties.htm

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

28. No political questions?

I wanted to spill the beans about the anti-abortion and anti-LBGT networks and organizing techniques! Did you know that Jack Chick comics can be found in Spanish right in downtown San Francisco? Ever noticed the groups of fundies at intersections in major cities around the country?

Do you want to know the undhanded way that Republicans have bought off Protestant ministers?

[SpiralHawk]

30. By all means, spill the beans

This is getting interesting. Thanks

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

32. in the Mission

in San Francisco, there are about 100 fundie churches, mostly Spanish speaking. They have maybe 50 people each. The Anglo fundies in the California right-wing movement give them free stuff like the Jack Chick comics. It goes on right under the nose of the liberal establishment in SF.

There are always a handful of middle aged, white, male fundies on major streetcorners in every? major city in the US, often with signs.

[hang a left]

33. Yes, I would like to hear about that.

"Do you want to know the undhanded way that Republicans have bought off Protestant ministers? "

[hang a left]

31. I have a question. However it is not with in the confines of what

you have stated is permissible. But I'll give it a crack anyway. What is your personal opinion of current world events and end times?

[BillZBubb]

34. That's a trick question

They don't think, that's why they are fundies. They are short on thought, long on belief and self-righteous surety.