Which word instinctively causes you to question a group's agenda?

[11 Bravo]

I'm a Christian, concerned about my country, with a traditional family (wife, two kids), and I guess I'm in favor of decency. So when did these words become the exclusive property of the wing nuts?

[DrWeird]

1. You're in favor of decency?

What the fuck does that mean?

:evilgrin:

[sangh0]

11. It's like being for Law and Order

as opposed to those who are against Law and Order.

[Jackpine Radical]

20. I'm agin lawn order.

But my wife makes me mow it anyway.

[bluestateguy]

2. Democrat Party

Clearly focus-group tested language.

[earthman dave]

3. "Obviously", "clearly", "choice", "freedom", "human rights"

Actually, it would probably be quicker to list the words that don't cause me to question someone's agenda. :)

[HereSince1628]

4. Don't forget "Patriots"

[forgethell]

5. "it's for the 'children'"

always sets my teeth on edge, from liberals or conservatives. One is going to pick my pocket, the other is going to make me do something I don't care to do. I could stand it better if I agreed with most of the offered solutions for real problems, or thought that the perceived problem was actually a problem, rather than a chance for self-rigtheous busy-bodies to throw their weight around and justify their own pathetic existences.

[trotsky]

6. "Traditional Values"

A lot of bad things easily fit under this category.

* Spousal abuse
* Corporal punishment of children
* Slavery
* No labor laws

Those who espouse "traditional values" tend to cherry-pick.

[terrya]

7. Unless I'm very much mistaken, any group with the word "family" in it..

is extremely homophobic. More BS from these people.

Terry

[G_j]

8. evil

flags go up for me when a person uses this word often.

[welshTerrier2]

9. Christians

labeling oneself a Christian in a political context suggests to me that there is a much greater likelihood that the person i'm speaking to will emphasize cultural issues more than economic or foreign policy issues ... it raises a big red flag with me for a variety of reasons ...

first, there's the issue of Christians wanting to impose their morality and beliefs on the rest of us ... the Catholic churches' incredible bigotry on the Massachusetts gay marriage issue is an excellent example ... the church has launched a massive campaign among their parishoners to defeat civil rights for gays ... i think it's fine for the church to have any view they damned well want to have on the issue ... but i do not think they should try to impose that view on civil legislation and the court's interpretation of the Massachusetts constitution ...

secondly, we've seen far too much single issue, anti-abortion voting ... i don't see many of these Christians marching and demonstrating against the deaths of hundreds of American troops and thousands of innocent Iraqis ... what Christian could possibly justify bush's militarized America ?? and yet, as a voting block, they are at best silent on this issue ... and at worst, supportive of bush because he supports their cultural agenda ... talk about hypocrisy ...

i hear many Christians expressing their sincere concern for "decency" ... but you didn't mention the indecency of the Iraq invasion ... you didn't mention the indecency of so many people losing their jobs ... you didn't mention anything about the corporate abuses that are destroying our democracy ... you didn't mention the indecency of so much violence on TV ... Christian decency too often seems to focus on "sexuality in the media" or on "traditional families" ... real decency would extend that message to violence and human exploitation in the media and it would show a real tolerance to those with differing values ... being a Christian seems to mean that because you deeply believe in the teachings you follow, the society has some kind of obligation to reflect those values ...

the first order of religion should be to teach tolerance and acceptance of other people ... Christians, as a political movement, seem to be doing anything but that ...

[blondeatlast]

21. SOME Christians--would I be here if I fell into any of the categories you

list?

I try to live by Christ's words; sometimes that falls into my political activism. If that bothers you, I'm sorry.

But keep this in mind: I don't "ACTIVATE" in Christ's name, which is the difference between me and the "Christians" you mention.

Edit: typo

[welshTerrier2]

24. please understand ... no offense was intended

there are many Christians who do not fall into the categories i described ... but that was not the question being asked ...

the question focussed on the "group's agenda" ... i have many Christian friends who are far to the left on the political spectrum ... but when i hear the term Christian today, in a political context, i'm afraid your religion has been co-opted by the right ...

and i don't mean to imply that this co-opting even represents a majority of Christians ... a good friend of mine is a Catholic priest ... but in a political discussion, he doesn't go around identifying himself as a "Christian" ...

so, no, it doesn't "bother" me at all that you try to live by Christ's words ... my response to the question of what leads me to question a "group's agenda" is focussed on the much publicized right wing Christian political movement, not Christianity itself ...

[Raenelle]

25. I suspect a Repug when I hear someone self-profess as a Christian

It's unfortunate, but Pavlov wasn't a total idiot. Stimulus-response, repeat as needed. Over the last few decades, when someone leads with the Christianity label they invariably seem to be Republicans.

Once a Christian group approached me on the street to give me some lit, and I politely said "No thanks, I'm a Democrat." That backed them up.

I know there are Christians who are Democrats. I know real Christian values have nothing to do with Republican values. HOWEVER, whether they meant for this to happen or not, a large number of Christian churches function as if they were mere Republican-party fronts, Republican-party feeders. And the Christians who need to brag about it in public, who need others to see them as Christians, always just seem to be Republicans.

[blondeatlast]

29. Fred Phelps has damned me to Hell, but I still love Christ.

FWIW, I voted DK in the primary.

I don't proselytize, but I do defend my faith and try to educate others. No offense intended, I just need to make people understand that some of us are just as troubled by that type of "Christian" as you are.

There are many Christian liberals but we organize with OTHER faiths so you don't hear about us as much,

http://www.interfaithalliance.org/

[JohnLocke]

22. Wrong! Christianity in a political context can be good.

Ever hear of the Southern Baptist Leadership Council, and a man called Martin Luther King, Jr.?

[welshTerrier2]

26. well, those were the good old days

fwiw, i grew up in a household that was very supportive of the SCLC ...

and to the extent that religion fights for basic civil liberties, who could oppose their agenda ...

but that seems like a long time ago ... as a political movement, focussing on the "big stage" issues of war, corporate corruption of our democratic institutions, and key cultural issues like a woman's right to choose and gay marriage, the Christian right seems to be the only "movement" we hear about ...

and what do we hear from the Christian right on these issues? they support their "President" ... abortionists are baby killers ... they support the DOMA hoping to impose their beliefs on everyone ... they want taxpayers to pay for their kids to go to religious schools instead of public schools ... we hear nothing of the Christian opposition to the invasion of Iraq (btw, i do remember the Berrigan brothers and other clergy like Father Drinan who fought against the war in Vietnam) ...

so, i don't take issue with your statement that "Christianity in a political context can be good" ... but today, as the only prominent political movement within the Christian community that I'm aware of, the Christian right totally sucks ... this movement is not a movement of liberation like the one MLK fought for ... it's hateful message is one of religious bigotry and an intolerance for those who don't agree with them ... it's not a movement to oppose corporate war ... it stands with the "President" because he exploits their beliefs in trying to impose their agenda on the rest of the country ...

anyway, the thread's question was something to the effect of what term raises my suspicions in a political discussion ... the churches in Massachusetts have launched something called their "MA and PA" campaign to deny gays the right to marry ... so yes, when someone identifies themselves as a Christian, I start out a little suspicious ... i'm not gay but i abhore this intolerance and i abhor the churches' effort to force their views on the rest of society ... does it mean the person i'm speaking to automatically shares all the values of the church? of course not ... does it mean the person doesn't share my political views? of course not ...

[JohnLocke]

30. There is hope for religion as a positive political force yet...

[Solly Mack]

10. "We" believe __________ (anything)

No one person speaks for "we"

There are too many catch-words to name...but that's my number 1.

[Kickin_Donkey]

12. "Freedom" or "Liberty"

n/t

[Touchdown]

13. "Heritage"

That word is strictly Repuke. The "heritage" they want is a return 1800s ...of the robber barons that can shoot strikers on sight, force chattel laboir back into 16 hour days and 7 days a week, being in debt to company stores...and banning interracial marriage. That kind of "heritage" belings in the past.

[revcarol]

14. Other: if they don't tell where their money comes from.

And all of the above.

And as a minister, I get a lot of really ugly stuff purporting to be Christian.

[shimmergal]

15. Leadership.

Groups too fond of this term tend to equate it with bullying.

[CalebHayes]

16. the word "family" means I want nothing to do with it.

[xxqqqzme]

17. if 'American'

is in the group name, I suspect RW agenda until I know otherwise.

[starroute]

18. I voted for Concerned -- but I take it all back

I just did a quick Google on "concerned" and here's what I came up with on the first page of results:

Union of Concerned Scientists: Works for clean air and energy, safe and sufficient food.

Concerned Women for America: Coalition of conservative women which promotes Biblical values and family traditions.

Lutherans Concerned/North America: A Christian ministry advocating homosexual rights and working to affirm God's love for lesbian and...

Concerned Citizens Resources. Become familiar with environmental issues and potential environmental and human health risks caused by pollution.

Evangelicals Concerned Western Region: Nationwide ministry of Christ-centered, Bible-believing, evangelical gay and lesbian Christians.

Concerned United Birthparents is a national organization concerned about adoption issues.

The Committee of Concerned Scientists is an independent organization of scientists, physicians and engineers dedicated to the protection and advancement of the human rights and scientific freedom of colleagues throughout the world.


Only one "traditional values" group in the bunch. I guess I was totally wrong, and I apologize to the word "concerned" for having thought badly of it. ;-)

[LiberalFighter]

19. I had to say other because "All of the above" wasn't included

[dawgman]

23. entitlements frames any discussion in a misleading manner

[NoPasaran]

27. All of the above

Yes, I know there are some fine groups that use some of the above words. But I question their agendas, and upon questioning, they may pass my scrutiny.

[geniph]

28. "Traditional values" tends to be code words

for the good ol' days when women and minorities "knew their place," gays stayed in the closet, women who had abortions were likely to die from it, you could beat your kids without anybody giving you guff about it, unmarried fornicators could be publicly shamed and scourged, you could evict your tenants for attending the wrong church, fire your employees for living with someone out of wedlock, refuse to hire or rent to people of the wrong ethnic background, etc.

Sets my teeth on edge. If they meant traditional values like thrift, conservation, honesty, compassion for the sick, charity, that'd be a different matter.

[ldoolin]

31. "Progressive Values"

...which is a code word for smear ads against those Democrats who have backbone.

Also:

"Human rights" or "human dignity" (code word for neo-McCarthyism, maintaining dossiers, planting smear articles against innocent people in newspapers, guilt by association, and blacklisting)

"Political research" (code word for paranoid smear articles against leftists, accusing leftists of being in cahoots with the right wing)

"Poverty" (code word for millionaire)

"Right-wing takeover" (code word for those environmentalists who happen to have some backbone)

"Leadership Caucus" (cockroaches)

[TrogL]

32. fambly values

That's how they pronounce it.