Bush* reason for not taking medical-"felt there was no reason to take it"

[sangha]

Bush Acts Against Critics on Guard Records and 9/11
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/14/politics/14BUSH.html?pagewanted=2

"The White House also more definitively explained than it has in the past why Mr. Bush skipped a 1972 National Guard medical exam, which has been a source of enormous speculation from Mr. Bush's critics, who have suggested he did so because drug testing was introduced around that time.

The records show that Mr. Bush was suspended from flying beginning Aug. 1, 1972 because he failed to take the exam. His last flight exam was on May 15, 1971.

Mr. Bartlett said Mr. Bush missed the exam because he felt there was no reason to take it. Mr. Bush, he said, had begun his training in 1968 with the Air National Guard in Texas, where he flew a fighter jet, the F-102. When he moved to Alabama in 1972 to work in the Senate campaign of a friend of his father, Mr. Bush transferred to an Alabama unit of the Guard that did not fly the same plane. Because there was no way Mr. Bush could fly planes in Alabama, Mr. Bartlett said, he did not bother to report for the medical exam. "

Whenever you discuss this issue with someone else, make sure to ask how often individuals in the service get to decide which orders to follow and which are not needed?

[ComerPerro]

1. Not suprising

What an asshole.

This is exactly why this guy should not be president.

Its the sense of entitlement.

Plus about ten or twenty other reasons.

[boxster]

2. Does anyone else get the feeling little Georgie had a problem

with authority?

He was obviously a spoiled brat, but I also get the feeling that he thought he could do whatever he wanted because of who Daddy was.

[unblock]

3. of course, he got transferred to alabama

on his own, and got permission afterward.

how convenient, to get transfered to where they have none of the planes you're trained to fly....

[Richardo]

4. I say let's sue him to recover the tax dollars used to train his ass...

...after all, he keeps telling us it's OUR money! :-)

[ewagner]

5. Question:

How long of a drive would it be from Little Rock (where he was working on the campaign) to Dallas (where the "old" fighter squadron was located?)

I have some friends in the guard who are in school in another state but commute 5-6 hours on Guard Weekends.

If he loved his F-102s so much, how come he wasn't willing to commute to fly them?

[Richardo]

8. His TANG squadron was in Houston...

...about 440 miles or 8'25" drive time.

[TacticalPeek]

19. I believe he worked(goldbricked) on the Blount campaign in north Alabama,

and drilled(ghosted) at Montgomery, AL.

Farther, I'd think.



I would like to know:


When was the last day he flew for the Guard, and when was the corresponding medical exam?

When was the last day he piloted solo, if after the Guard, and the certification under which he flew including the medical?

What are his total F-102 hours for the Guard and the average hours for F-102 Guard pilots then?

Did he or anyone violate any laws or regs when he alledgedly piloted recently in his Prancer's Flight Suit?

When if ever did he last hold a pilot's license, and from what authority?

[leesa]

33. Hey! Hey! Those weekends were for drinking after working his three hour

days on the campaign trail. Sheesh, give a hard-working boy a break!

[Salviati]

6. He was ordered to take it...

what more reason does he need?

[sangha]

9. Exactly!!

Make sure you ask that of others

[ThoughtCriminal]

7. The TANG pilot that defended Bush

admitted that the Guard was a dodge for most "Except guys who wanted to fly". Apparently flying was not Bush's motivation...

[beanball]

10. Annual physical

service men and women are required to take an annual physical,if you refuse you can be given an article #15 or court marshal.

[buycitgo]

14. he was REFUSED on his initial request to go to Alabama, right?`

and, so far, ther's NO record of his having been there, including that liar Calhoun, who can't even remember now, exactly when it was.

that needs to be nailed down, if it hasn't already been.

very clear that if he wasn't in Alabama, his excuse of having no plane to fly there, uh, flies out the window, with whatever scant bit of cred he ever had with any nonthinking dolt out there who swallows his garbage like it was sweet cream.

[loudnclear]

11. Remember, he didn't think it was necessary to check with the UN either.

Finally forced to pretend to listen to the UN advice but we all know what really happend. He ignored all advice contrary to his pre-determined course of action to invade Iraq. Is this really the kind of mental midget we want running the world?

[Ernesto]

12. Well, sheeeit!

I should've stopped working for the USMC after I returned from Nam cause I didn't think that I needed to anymore. I already went to the war, right! I wasted 9 months of my life. Damn!

[imax2268]

13. please...

"Mr. Bartlett said Mr. Bush missed the exam because he felt there was no reason to take it..."

Ask any current military or guard person what would happen if they "felt" there is no reason to take a physical exam...

I almost missed one...I was an hour late because I was asleep in my rack...after a long shift...and I almost got wrote up and almost had to stand in front of the Captain at Captains Mast...

Thank god I had an LPO who was cool and knew how to talk to the officers in the med department...

He(*) missed it because he had "something" in his system and he didn't want to get "BUSTED"...

[Elidor]

15. The amazing, changing justification

First they said his "family doctor" wasn't available to perform the physical. When someone pointed out that that wouldn't wash, they came up with this bullshit. And bullshit is clearly what it is. They need to be called on it.

It's just like the ever-shifting justification for the invasion of Iraq, from WMDs to capital-D Democracy to ridding the world of a horrible dictator to WMD-program-related activities to whatever bullshit they come up with next.

I just wish the press would call them on the bullshit. Don't waste time poking holes in this bullshit - just ask them why the reason keeps changing and what they have to hide.

[woofless]

16. Let me get this straight.

He knows in May '71 that he will be moving to Ala. and they don't fly the F-102's. He has not yet gotten permission to transfer in May '71 but takes it upon himself to give the mandatory Flight Physical a pass. These are his answers? We are supposed to accept this as a legitimate excuse? This doesn't even begin to answer the questions. The Flight Physical is not a suggestion. It is mandatory and he was ordered to attend it. He refused. Either he should be held accountable for missing it or his superiors should be held accountable for not disciplining him for his behavior. There is no way this can be other than special treatment for special people. One does not get to decide which orders one will obey. You either obey the order or are sanctioned for disobeying. I was in the Air Force at this same time and none of us would dare to miss an appointment.

As a Viet Nam era vet I have nothing against those who made it into the Guard or Reserves as a way to get out of the draft. It was a pretty common thing and held no stigma. It was hard to do though. The lists were all full and the wait was over two years in some cases/places. Shrub bypassed all that. Many of us (me included) enlisted in the Air Force as a way to avoid being drafted as a grunt. Lesser of two evils. Nearly ALL they folks I served with overseas in '71 and '72 did the same thing. We served honorable and are proud of it. The real issue is credibility. I will always believe he avoided his physical because he had a snoot full of Peruvian marching powder and didn't want to get caught. All his explanations have been bogus. Those of us who were there want an answer. Bet we never get a credible one.

[mike1963]

18. Yep, you nailed it. I freely admit I got into the ANG with some 'help'...

the C.O. was my next door neighbor and I even got him to help one of my best buddies (we learned to fly together) get in. We both had commercial pilot tickets and thought we might get to fly (the unit had C-124s at the time) - he made it but I was just barely too nearsighted.

And of course no way to prove it (yet anyway)but I think you're exactly right on the Peruvian powder speculation.

[woofless]

20. Ummmmmmm Mike

That was the FANG remember? Heh, heh, heh.

Woof

[symbolman]

36. Woofless

Exactly the same applied to me -- I was in from 1971-74 USAF --

I remember the shivers of all the drug addicts when the random drug tests were started..

I saw German SHepards rip the back of an airman's uni off his body cos he was carrying coke in some tin foil in his back pocket..

It's a life of extremes and YOU DON'T MAKE YOUR OWN RULES..

unless you are being given Preferential Treatment - or you were in Purchasing like I was :)

thanks for serving, we did time together brother.

[calimary]

17. HE felt there was no reason to take it?

Who the hell did he think he was back then, deciding for himself that there was no reason to obey an order?

How 'bout our guys in Iraq take that attitude? A good way to get 'em all home, don't you think?

[TacticalPeek]

22. I tried that deciding for myself about orders twice.

Hello, stockade.

Both times, and once was ONE day late, just ONE frigging day late . . . on a 48hr pass :).

[freeminder]

21. very interesting (and unbelievable)

as others have said "I didn't think it was necessary" :wtf:

This is nowhere in the news over here in Europe. But then again, we already know the time of day. No pun intended, so do DU-ers of course.

[TahitiNut]

23. "no reason to" follow orders?

Just let the guys know that who're now in Iraq and Afghanistan.

A failure to report as ordered is an offense that resulted in imprisonment and dishonorable discharges for others. There is absolutely nothing to show that Junior ever reported for a physical after 1971, despite repeated orders to do so. Send that arrogant, elitist piece of shit to Leavenworth! :puke:

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

24. Jimmy Breslin's Newsday Column

points at another possible reason for skipping the physical and being grounded--heavy bombing campaign kicking off at that time despite the war winding down, needing fighter support with guys getting shot down. In other words, more chance for the shrub to actually get called up out of his cushy slot. In other words, cowardice...

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/ny-nybres143670574feb15,0,6023710.column?coll=ny-lipolitics-print

[Hailtothechimp]

26. The article is a no holds barred attack. I loved it.

Do yourself a favor and read it.

[Bunny]

29. A no holds barred attack ,indeed.

How nice to finally read this, in the (somewhat) mainstream press.

[blm]

25. And that's why James Bath was grounded at the SAME TIME?????

.

[PurityOfEssence]

27. Smirky the Shirker

Can't even go through the motions. How pathetic.

[KansDem]

42. Hey, you hit on a new nickname for His Royal Flatulence...

"Smirk the Shirk"

Sounds like a Be-bop tune! :D

[Lisa]

28. which shows that he did NOT do everything possible to keep flying

If he felt that he had to work on the campaign out of a sense of family obligation, say, but still wanted to maintain his readiness as a pilot (and the Bushies make a big deal out of him "volunteering" for that Palace Alert thing) -- surely he would have jumped through the hoops? (Just as I keep up my driver's license even though I haven't had access to a car for almost a decade.)

Also -- Sangha, I think you've nailed something important. Everybody I know in the military, even officers, has said that it meant following orders and doing boring or unpleasant tasks. (Even National Guardsmen.) But Bush got to go home to his own apartment in Houston at the end of the day, and do whatever he liked after that.

I think that he was not only unwilling to live under barracks conditions, but knew that he wouldn't be able to stand not being in control.

[sangha]

31. Bingo!

Everybody I know in the military, even officers, has said that it meant following orders...

Bush* was ordered to take a medical, and he didn't. Tell that to any vet, and bang!, Bush* lost another vote.

[guitar man]

30. What a load of crap

"Because there was no way Mr. Bush could fly planes in Alabama, Mr. Bartlett said, he did not bother to report for the medical exam. "

Bullshit. I bet if he REALLY wanted to fly the planes in Alabama,I would imagine the instructors could have gotten him checked out in short order.Plenty of pilots have transitioned from one type to another,I see no reason * couldn't have also,unless he had a problem like .......oh.......let's see......oh I know. HE WASN'T THERE!!!

[ewagner]

32. Excellent point

I've never known a fighter jock who didn't want to fly everything that had wings. Hell, most of the guys I knew would've flown a friggin box kite to keep in the air. Transitioning would have been realitively simple.

[guitar man]

37. Sure enough

One of our old family friends flew starting in WWII and stayed for 25 years.He flew a P-51 Mustang in WWII, an F-86 Sabre in Korea and if I recall correctly, flew the F-100 super Sabre and then the F-4 Phantom in Vietnam. A pilot flies airplanes. They each have thier own quirks and characteristics,but an airplane is an airplane.

If he applied himself,he could have flown the planes in Alabama.But it seems like he has always had trouble in that area.

[sangh0]

40. "If he applied himself......"

Thanks for the laugh

[sangha]

34. See "Bush*'s record of compassion for vets"

at:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1128869

[boobooday]

35. Never does anything he don't wanna

Daddy said so.

The world is his playground, and when he gets tired, he will take his ball and go home.

Let's tackle him and take his ball.

Then send him home with a wedgie he'll never get over.


http://www.wgoeshome.com

[sangha]

38. *kick*

for the morning crowd

[Junkdrawer]

39. "because drug testing was introduced around that time"...

This is a point not nearly emphasized enough.

[tom_paine]

41. Bush felt "I had too much cocaine in my pee"