NASCAR: sport or cult?

[Wells]

It is not my intent to disregard the rules for posting in the general discussion forum; particularly that of inflammitory language or generalization. Nor was this my intention in my earlier post about NASCAR and NASCAR Dads. I'm sorry that my post produced more disturbance than thoughtful discussion.

My 'battering' comment came from an interpretation of a Dodge Durango TV commercial now airing. A Dad and wife, new owners of a Durango 'argue' over how the wife coddles her son. "What are you doing?", says the Dad, in a demanding tone that can be interpreted as threatening. Subsequent ads maintain this personality trait. I believe this advertizement intentionally catered to a market of Dads who's obsession with power is related to their vehicle of choice; namely, one that is overpowered in design and driven recklessly.

My intent, often on this forum, is to point out the myriad of problems, (from social to economic to environmental), which dependence upon the automobile presents and which no high-tech advance like alternate fuels can resolve. The fans of NASCAR should not forever remain oblivious to the impact of their entertainment. Yea!! Reckless speed!! Whoopee!! A 12-car pile-up!! Such Early Modernist philosophy produces catastrophy.

My conclusions about the woes of human civilization, place 'unsustainable industrialization', above race, class and other political arguments. Reducing excessive industrialization to a moderate, sustainable level is our best hope. If such arguments will not be allowed at Democratic Underground, then we have less hope that their pertinent role in civilization's downfall will be exposed.

Transportation policy - (cars, planes, globalization)
Begets energy policy - (oil and gas)
Begets foreign policy - (WAR)

[flakey_foont]

1. in North Carolina

it is classified as "Religion"

[Heyo]

2. Well, if you're anti-car...

you're obviously gonna be anti-racing...

[DrWeird]

3. Cult.

Unless you're the kind of person who also classifies cheerleading and baton twirling as sports.

[jayfish]

6. Have You Ever Driven A Car...

for four hours straight, at 195MPH, in bumper to bumper traffic, in 105F heat, without power steering? Could you? And your non-sporting examples?

Jay

[DrWeird]

8. Oooo, no power steering!

That must be hard on a track that only has wide steeply banked left turns.

[Heyo]

10. They have power steering....

NASCAR cars have power steering...

Just an FYI.

[jayfish]

14. I Stand Corrected.

Uhhh... how about no A/C then? }(

Jay

[Jose Diablo]

21. The drivers suits are a/c, actually water cooled

[jayfish]

25. Yes They Are...

but if you have watched race at a very hot track you can see that the suits don't work all that well. Lots of ice is used to suppliment the suits.

Jay

[okieinpain]

56. hahahahahaha. but seriously racing is a sport, it's boring on tv

but it pretty good in person, and if you're really into it.

[JackRiddler]

31. cheerleading/twirling ARE sports

As is dance. Any strenuous activity with the human body as energy source can qualify as sport.*

Motor racing is not sport. The power source is an internal combustion engine. The activity is strenuous and the drivers may be athletic, but they are not athletes. They are machine operators.



-----------------
NOTE
*gravity also allowed as factor, being inevitable.

[AngryAmish]

37. By that definition

marital relations could be considered a sport. Especially the gravity part.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

50. jack, i concur

[Wells]

4. a Moderate position

Again, I'm sorry that my earlier post about NASCAR Dads was too contentious. I go on an attack mode regarding the automobile, but try to maintain a moderate position.

[QC]

5. Around here, the obsession seems to be on the art of NASCAR detractors.

Frankly, the appeal of baseball, golf, soccer, and hockey is a mystery to me, but I can't imagine starting multiple threads denouncing them.

[demsrule4life]

19. The detractors are afraid of life

people die in NASCAR, baseball, golf, soccer are for wimps.

[regularguy]

69. I agree!

Since I tend to get enjoyment out of watching a bunch of glandular case-studies put an orange ball through a hoop, I'm gonna hold off on criticizing/mocking fans of Nascar (or whatever). Seems so obvious to me.

[stopthegop]

7. I've seen the Durango commercial ..

and for what it's worth...the Dad's tone didn't seem threatening to me...that's reading a LOT into it ...

[Heyo]

11. It wasn't theatening at all...

.. the commercial is showcasing the 2 sides of the truck.. the comfortable interior with DVD and what not.... (the stuff the mom likes).. and the powefull engine/performance.. (the stuff dad likes)...

typical commercial trying to sell a car to families with kids...

nothing really more than that...

Heyo

[Wells]

16. It's the father's tone of voice.

Listen carefully, next time you see this ad. The father's tone and attitude has a sharpness that can be interpreted as threatening. It's subtle, but it's definitely there.

[stopthegop]

18. still disagree...

if someone hears it, I suspect they're looking for it..
have a good evening..

[wuushew]

9. A ran into a bunch of conservative Nascar fans a couple of years ago

Six guys maybe more who said everytime they go down south for a weekend race an equivalent of 100 cases of beer is consummed. I honestly believe it is a sport created and marketed by Budwiser.

[locustfist76]

12. Who cares

Is this even worth discussing? By the way, don't think for a minute that all NASCAR fans are Republican. I bet you a large majority of all NASCAR fans vote democratic in local elections and republican in statewide/national elections. The national party shows no interest in representing the people of the South, at least I see no signs of it. Even the Cherokee feel neglected on a national level.

[wuushew]

17. Who left who?

It was the South that abandoned the Democratic party after LBJ signed civil rights laws. After forty years has the issue finally healed?

[demsrule4life]

13. Who cares?

A bunch of guys making left hand turns.

[alwynsw]

15. Too funny

[Deja Q]

22. You will, eventually

Just think of NASCAR when the oil runs out.

You'll no longer be able to use your car, because they wanted to make all those left turns at 250MPH for all those hours.

Do you like CDs, DVDs, computers, hairdryers, disposable plates/utensils, advanced medical tools, telephones, vasoline, numerous fertilizers, and dozens of hundreds of other products? Plastic is made directly from oil. No oil, no plastic. Again, thank the NASCAR buds for squandering what this society truly needs. (hell, the only thing we need to do is survive. DVDs, CD, hairdryers, vasoline, and computers are surely not necessary...)

There are reasons to care.

And while 20 years may not seem like much, prices for EVERYTHING revolving around oil (plasic, fertilizer, shipping of food, gas prices, you name it) will skyrocket. Watch the economy crumble, with NASCAR ironically being a significant contributor to the demise. (ironic because each car has 50 corporate logos on it... for the logos keep this nonsense in business. :eyes: Not sure how, I don't buy a product because I saw the logo on a car driving at 250MPH in a loop 500 times over...)

Still not care? If you don't, then I have to wonder... :-(

[Heyo]

23. See that's the difference between you and me...

I think that everyone on this board and their kids will be long dead and gone before we have an oil crisis.... and I also think a replacement energy source will be found way before as well.

But I'm sure you are about to DAZZLE me with "statistics" to prove me wrong.

Call me what you will.. I am not the slightest bit concerned about how much fossil fuels NASCAR is using.....

Considering a single translatic flight can use upwards of 15,000 gallons of jet fuel, and there are dozens of those every day.

Heyo

[Muddleoftheroad]

27. Amen

I agree with your whole post down to the tone.

:)

[wuushew]

28. Just so we are on record here muddle...

you are denying that we have reached peak oil?

[demsrule4life]

24. Why no mention of formula 1 racers?

Here is how I feel, cars are a waste of money, I dont use cd, or dvd's, I'm pretty much bald so I dont need a hair dryer, I don't use disposable plates and utensils because they are bad for the environment, I'm not kinky so I dont need vasoline, don't need fertilizers, figure my dogs can take care of that. Your whole post just shows how much you dont know, what burns more oil, a thousand or so NASCAR race cars or 50 million SUV's?

[drdigi420]

36. wow, musta taken a lot of floppy disks

to install your computer if you dont use CDs

[demsrule4life]

52. My computer already came

with everything installed. :)

[Elwood P Dowd]

30. Wrong again

"Watch the economy crumble, with NASCAR ironically being a significant contributor to the demise."

You anti-NASCAR guys keep making up stuff that isn't true. NASCAR uses up less fuel in a year than is used by personal automobiles in California in a single day! NASCAR doesn't even use .00001 percent of the total fuel consumption in the US. Significant? Not hardly!

[drdigi420]

34. simple solution: legalize hemp

hemp based methanol is a RENEWABLE resource and can replace petroleum in so many products that the rednecks can go burn up all the gasoline they want in their hi-octane circle jerk

[alwynsw]

20. Well

NASCAR fans do tend to worship #3 and Petty Blue. Maybe it's a Motor City meets Sesame Street cult.

[_Jumper_]

26. Cult

:eyes:

[JackRiddler]

32. You are referring to the picture of the General & admirers, perhaps? n/t

[Fescue4u]

29. Well no Nascar drivers have flown aircraft into the Pentagon

So Im pretty its a cult.

When we start getting suicide Nascar killers, we should reconsider.

[drdigi420]

33. neither

just an excuse for rednecks to get together and get drunk

[drdigi420]

35. Hi-Octane Circle Jerk

thats all

[oasis]

38. "NASCAR dads" is entirely a Rove/ media creation to give a large segment

of American society a sense of belonging to an even larger group. This group has now been politicized and programmed to vote Republican.

It's not like the NASCAR folks don't share, to varying degrees, many other common interests.

[Dunedain]

39. its a car going around in a circle

How long does it take before you say 'Hmm, I get it' and then go do someting constructive with your life.

[oasis]

46. All the pretty colors. And the patches: Penzoil, STP, AMOCO,Michelin.

[PVnRT]

49. I guess

posting smarmy comments on an internet discussion board is "something constructive"? :eyes:

[Dunedain]

57. Got me there...

[Dees]

40. What's the point of NASCAR? People have driven faster,

in rougher terrain and if you ever have driven in NYC...well.
It's not like watching a thoroughbred. But, to each their own.

[muffin_man]

41. The point? Well... I like it

It is not something you can jump into or understand without someone to guide you to start.First and foremost you have to love cars. It is very complex and is a high speed chess match. Every driver at the NASCAR/Nextel cup level was a champion in their class before coming to NASCAR. If it was simple you would not see certain teams finishing at the back every race. They dont have the skill/ know-how/money of the other teams.I say again it is impossible to turn a race on for the first time and have a clue what is going on.Every lap counts as much as every postion for every driver.As far as people going faster NASCAR was slowed to increase saftey.

[Elwood P Dowd]

42. You can't talk rationally with these people

They don't know a damn thing about the sport. Just look at some of their comments. In many ways, some of these anti-NASCAR posters are worse than republicans about throwing out lies and innuendo.

[muffin_man]

43. This means something.

How easy people are to argue.This is a good example of knowing you are right and attempting to explain to someone how the things they are saying are completly untrue,but you know they will never get it no matter what you say.

[Lugnut]

44. Being called.....

A beer swilling redneck Bubba doesn't help my attitude either. The number of Cup drivers who aren't from the South outnumber those who are. :shrug:

[locustfist76]

47. Redneck

Should the term "redneck" even be used in today's society. It tends to have a racial undertone to it. I would be somewhat offended if someone called me a redneck just because I'm white, from the South, and watch NASCAR.

[locustfist76]

45. A theme

Most people on this board diss things they don't understand. If it's not NASCAR then it's Christianity. If you "get it" then don't talk about it. It appears that everyone on this board is Anti-NASCAR, Anti-Christianity, Anti-Bush, Anti-War, Anti-Hunting, Anti-Guns, Anti-Rich, Anti-Pro Market, Anti-anyone's idea that differs from you own, Anti-Common Sense, Anti-Media, etc...I figured out you hate many, many things, but is there anything positive you can talk about? Action is better than reaction. It could be contagious. We can can't win if we are against everything and have no solution to what we are opposing.

[Heyo]

51. Exactly...

I think there may be a hint of apprehension there...

As has been stated before, about 75 million people, or roughly 1/4 of the population of the U.S. identify themselves as NASCAR fans. That block of people is indeed largely conservative, and don't subscribe to the left wing schools of thought that are par here at DU. Alot of them support the military, and support Bush. And for that particular group of fans, there isn't anything that is going to change that. Trust me they have heard all the left-wing talking points about how "Bush lied people died" etc.. and they are not interested. It's not that they are ignorant or uninformed, their belief system is just different. I think it worries some people on the far left end of the spectrum that there is this group of millions of people that they just can't touch no matter what they do. And this activity engaged in by tens of millions that they can't or won't understand the appeal of.

I think it might be easier on their minds just to condemn the entire thing that is NASCAR, or to just dismiss it as a bunch of racists rednecks getting together just to wave flags and talk about how they love Bush.. and maybe race some cars on the side, than it is to accept this is a huge block of 1/4 of the US that are perfectly intelligent people, who vote mostly repub, because they are not interested in what the left currently has to offer. (Liberal race fans excluded, obviously)

They are fans of the racing, and are not interested in left wing politics.. they just want to see their driver win races or finish in the top 5 or whataver...I guarantee any attempt to inject politics into NASCAR will be rejected in the strongest possible terms.

The 'NASCAR Dad' thing I think is a lame media buzzword I think... but hey.. it is what it is.

Heyo

[Pattib]

59. I understand Bush..sorry I'm not able to jump on your pro-bush

wagon. This is a site for Democrats. Why would we be pro-Bush???

[locustfist76]

66. We can't all think alike

It's possible to be Democratic and not anti-Bush. I'm done with hating people. It's not worth it to dispise someone so much you wish they were dead. I refuse to be consumed by hate. I thought the Democrats would have learned this from the Clinton era. Republicans hated him so bad, it consumed there every thought. Now the reverse is in affect and I do not like it. How many lives must be destroyed because of politics of hate? The point of my previous post was that we should have a positive counter-message to defeat Bush. Where is the love man?

[Heyo]

67. Even though we are night and day.....

That's one of the smarter things I've heard said around here lately.

Heyo

[drdigi420]

72. i love cars, just not the cars they race in nascar

i prefer high performance cars to american 'stock' cars

they wont let BMW, Mercedes, Maserati, etc race in those races, so the whole 'car lover' argument falls flat

someone that loves cars would prefer to see better cars being raced

[Dees]

48. Zoom Zoom....

[Cronus Protagonist]

53. I'm sorry you had to write this disclaimer

Just to post your observation, which is perfectly valid, of course.

"FUCK BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[donsu]

54. race cars = air pollution

nt

[demsrule4life]

55. Hopefully you havent driven the

family car and caused more air pollution. I have an idea let's ban all family cars since they pollute much more than a few race cars do.

[donsu]

68. but it's unnecessary pollution

nt

[demsrule4life]

70. I'm with you here

how much driving with the family car is really necessary? If it is being used for anything other than driving to work or for a medical emergency, it is causing unnecessary pollution.

[YNGW]

58. "NASCAR: sport or cult?" - ROTFLMAO

Thanx. That was a great laugh. A cult? HAHAHA

It's something that some people enjoy watching. That's all. No more, no less. Some are more serious about it than others. If other people don't like watching, no one's holding a gun to their head and making them. No one needs to make anything more out of it than that.

>My 'battering' comment came from an interpretation of a Dodge Durango TV commercial now airing. A Dad and wife, new owners of a Durango 'argue' over how the wife coddles her son. "What are you doing?", says the Dad, in a demanding tone that can be interpreted as threatening.

Threatening? You're kidding, Right? Trucks are macho. The guy is portrayed as wanting his son to appreciate the truck has a hemi engine. It's called "target marketing".

Sometimes people read more into things than are actually there.

[Wells]

73. Funny or Unpatriotic?

Well, I don't begin threads here often. I have too little time for replies. The Durango ad is disturbing. Its producer should recognize the potential for a subliminal message in the Dad's pointed demand, "What are you doing?" What the wife was doing was coddling her son, something that can and does infuriate "macho" Dads.

NASCAR racing uses miniscule amounts of fuel, compared to fuel use in the entire transportation market. However, some fuel use is a necessity, some a luxury, some an inefficient waste, some a redundant waste. NASCAR fuel use is a luxury, for an entertainment, the least defensable use of fuel. And, because such sports encourage the sale of overpowered vehicles, everyday driving becomes an exercize in inefficient waste.

General Motors' influence upon US foreign policy sends boys to die in wars for oil. To those who would rather remain oblivious to Oil Wars, opposition to NASCAR is either funny or unpatriotic.

[SinkingInTheRain]

60. NASCAR is a polluting, noisy and wasteful activity

I can't how any Democrat would support it. It destroys the environment and Kerry should use it to beat Bush over the head with.

[locustfist76]

74. Honestly

Everything we do is wasteful if you really get down to it. We are consumers. You can sit high on your perch and say this is wasteful, but what isn't? The computer you're using is wasteful. What about all the phone lines and fiber optic lines that are being used so you can condemn NASCAR. What about the all servers worldwide that allow the world to be connected throught an Internet. The shoes you wear are wasteful. So is the electricity you use to keep your house lit at night. Shame on YOU. How dare you point your finger at NASCAR when you are just as guilty!

[MrBenchley]

61. Waiting for a wreck is a sport?

"Some friends of mine went to the NASCAR EA Sports 500 at Talladega... One of the guests was the new Miss America, Ericka Dunlap. What's the big deal you say? Apparently it's still not cool to be black in the dirty south.
According to my friends, the climate was less than ideal. When she was announced she was greeted with mostly silence. People in the crowd were heard screaming "N****r!". "

http://www.free-conversant.com/thom/108


"WASHINGTON — NASCAR chief operating officer George Pyne praised what he called a "classic American success story": the sport's growth from a regional fan base to a national, mainstream following under the France family's guidance, in a speech Tuesday at the National Press Club.
Pyne fielded written questions from attendees after his speech and was challenged on a sensitive aspect of NASCAR's stated desire for diversity. Why, one questioner wondered, would an African-American fan want to go to a race when he or she sees an infield full of confederate flags on television — a symbol of heritage to some, but a symbol of racism to many of the fans NASCAR is trying to attract.
Pyne said NASCAR prohibits the display of confederate flags in the areas of the track it controls. Pyne said NASCAR has "zero tolerance" for racism but fans have freedom of expression. If a guy in a camper wants to display his confederate flag, there's nothing NASCAR can do about it."

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2003-10-21-diversity_x.htm

[SinkingInTheRain]

62. All the more reason to get Kerry to pound Bush with NASCAR

His speeches should be more harsh on NASCAR and Bush. Kerry needs to bring up the points you made above.

[MrBenchley]

63. I disagree....

Kerry should stay positive and continue to take the occasional sideways jab....

[SinkingInTheRain]

65. Then why bother making the claims?

If your claims are true then why not bring it to the people? Since when did it become democratic to hide the truth? I don't get it.

[Heyo]

64. If Kerry comes out...and starts bashing NASCAR.

Then might as well let Bush do his next four years and not even HAVE an election.

Heyo

[Bridget Burke]

71. Which would make SOME people very happy!

It would be rude to mention names....

[[e-mail]]

75. NASCAR- It's still about the economy

http://www.americanprogress.org/site/pp.asp?c=biJRJ8OVF&b=33336

[Broken]

76. "redneck"==hypocrites

I have come to this site for a couple years and read. I have come accross "white trash", "trailer trash", "redneck" numerous upon numerous times. And you Liberals get on working class whites for being fundamentalists and racists, thereby taking the guilt off of middle and upper class whites and puttting it ALL on the shoulders of working class whites. While all along the racism of working class whites has to do with CLASS OPPRESSION from the middle and upper class. You see working class whites are in competition with each other and other races of people for jobs. This creates racial tension, because middle and upper class whites blame minorities for making life hard on working class whites by taking 'their' jobs, and so gives them a little bit of privileges to not feel as powerless. Essentially these two races are pitted against each other so as not to fight against CLASS OPPRESSION! THEN, after all this, middle class Liberals have the nerve to blame working class whites for not joining up with them and voting for them, while calling working class whites "hillbilly's", "hicks", "ignorant", "poor white trash", "trailer trash", "REDNECKS", "racists", and such, and such, and such.........It's the middle class Liberal who is really the racist, yet he/she has been educated to hide it better then ignorant working class whites, and so has joined up with the struggles of people of color AGAINST 'those' racist redneck white trash working class whites, to free themselves of white guilt. They blame racism on US (the white working class), when it is mainley caused by the oppression of working class whites by middle/upper class whites. So, not only are they racists, but classists as well......And ya'll have the nerve to hate on working class whites and scapegoat them/us for not having any desire to side with progressives. And you guys have the nerve to act perplexed as to why a working class white person might not feel wanted by progressives/liberals. At least conservatives PRETEND to care about working class whites..read on.......



"The derisive treatment of working class whites by middle and upper class whites stems from two emotions within themselves: fear and guilt. Working class whites are the embodiment of uppers worst fears..fear of slipping in the class system, fear of social isolation and fear of this socially unstable class that retains an emphasis on physicality rather than intellect and moral judgements rather than ambiguous relativity.

Since the Civil Rights movement, white Americans have shouldered a lot of well deserved guilt about centuries of abuse toward minorities. Coupled with this guilt, there exists in most people a basic craving for absolution. The desire to feel forgiveness and move forward. This need is a strong force in society today......................
One option is to take the worst historical attributes of whites and placing them on those whites who are most powerless and isolated in society. Then you can blame and hate them for their crimes against humanity and your own. Upper class whites can join with blacks and other minorities, thereby alleviating their guilt, taking attention off themselves and bonding with minorities against poor whites. Uppers are still pitting the two groups against each other; they have merely switched sides. For proof, just take a look at recent voting patterns. The liberal, well educated white votes alongside minorities against politically conservative working class whites...........................
Saying that working class whites were in a tough spot, is never to deny their role in debasing blacks in society. However, the relationship between poor whites and slaves, or poor whites and
poor blacks is a multi-layered one. Poor whites and poor blacks historically and presently have much more in common than either class with uppers. Historically, particularly after the Civil War, poor whites and poor blacks held a similar position in society. They typically worked as sharecroppers and tenant farmers, with no possibility for land ownership or education, constantly under the control of land owning wealthy whites. The upper class whites were and still are aware of the power that working class whites and blacks would have if they were to join forces in political and social affairs. Therefore it has been beneficial to upper class whites to encourage animosity between these two groups of people. With the obvious racial distinction, it was not difficult to do...................
For the first two hundred years of American history, wealthy white employers and white churches constantly reinforced the poor whites' ideas about their superiority over blacks due to the color of their skin. Desperately desiring some power in society, poor whites gladly claimed this role, despite the obvious flaws in this argument. In Origins of the New South, C. Vann Woodward writes, "it took a lot of ritual and Jim Crow to bolster the creed of white supremacy in the bosom of a white man working for a black man's wages" (p.211) Poor whites and blacks share similar religious doctrines, family ties and community loyalty; yet have remained separated by racial animosity. "
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA97/price/race.htm

[Broken]

77. boot

ok, I'm booting this. I want people to read my previous post, even though might make some people angry. But whatever, I'm so sick of the scapegoating from white liberal middle class people, simply to relive their white guilt. Which, I think was done to a degree on this thread, but even more so on others.

[Broken]

78. aagh

one more bump, I care not if anyone responds. Just so some will read and think how what they say might effect the political ties that working class whites have, instead of just hating them for it. I think it's time for white middle class liberals to take a good look at how their classism and well hidden educated racism hurts the very people you call "rednecks", "white trash", "beer guzzelers", "ignorant", and such and of course 'minorities' in turn. And how scapegoating white working class people for racism is actually quite classist.

[Heyo]

79. I hear ya...

I haven't got the chance to read your post in detail yet, I have skimmed it but am trying to not burn my dinner....

but I will read and respond, 'cause what I read so far seems interesting....

So yeah, somebody is out here listenin'...

Will get back to ya when I get a chance.

Heyo