What is it with the general distaste for all things NASCAR around here ?

[arewethereyet]

I've been watching the races since I was a kid and going to races for a number of years and I can't see what there is about it that should engender this reaction that is not present in any other spectator sport.

Some think its boring, OK, other people think golf is boring. Thats personal preference and a lack of understanding and no reason for vitriol.

The have a flag and have the National Anthem done. Well, this IS America and I thnk you'll find a flag up at all sports venues and the anthem gets done in all the ones I've seen (thats limited to baseball, hockey and football for me). Again, no apparant reason for distain.

So if its something besides "just because" I'd like to hear it.

[GregorStocks]

1. It's pointless, deadly, and...

In the words of Homer J. Simpson: "This is our chance to see CARS DRIVING!!!"

[Speed8098]

33. "It's pointless, deadly, and..."

And the point of football, baseball, hockey, track, pole vaulting, and the whole gamit of sports is????

Narrow mindedness and intolerance is ugly

[smiley_glad_hands]

2. I like NASCAR

Live though---can't bring myself to watch it, Golf, or Tennis on television.

[Jose Diablo]

59. Oh man, I love NASCAR live

Ooo la la..party time in Ta-la-daaaa-ga.

The smell of hot oil, the stands vibrating from the rumble as the cars pass, it don't get better than this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. The impression, pushed by teh right

that Nascar is limited to Republican, blue collar working class
people

I say reach out for NASCAR, that is another consituency ripe for the plucking per the booing yesterday

By the way, Junior (not Bush) ran a great race.

[indepat]

11. I despise NASCAR giving a candidate for political office a free

forum to pitch his political rhetoric during the campaign season. A previous avid follower (my surname has long been associated with the sport), I've probably watched my last NASCAR event.

[Catch22Dem]

15. Did you feel the same way...

about the Bob Graham for President car last season?

[indepat]

80. That didn't surface on my radar screen.

[MrSandman]

152. Didn't Bob Graham pay for that sponsorship?

[Heyo]

32. I didn't hear him....

I didn't hear him mention a single political thing while he was there. He talked about the high Daytona banks, he talked about baseball, racing....

explain?

[buycitgo]

35. you're not serious, are you?

seriously

never mind....just get yelled at by the censors

why on EARTH do you think he was THERE in the first place?

to deliver care packages to the starving indigent in attendance?

to deliver a speech on energy independence?

what pl.......never mind

[Heyo]

52. I get what you're saying...

I just didn't hear any political rhetoric come out of him... I watched the whole race... not cause I give a crap about Bush being there, because I like NASCAR.....

He didn't speak about anything political that I heard....

Just calling it like I see it.

[indepat]

83. Everything is political during campaign season. How much free press

was this political junket at what cost to taxpayers?

[indepat]

82. Didn't watch the photo-op

[arewethereyet]

41. I've seen plenty of Dem polititians at races

primarily in the fall.

Its like parades and any other event where there are lots of people, pols appear.

[_Jumper_]

92. Bill Clinton

Clinton attended a NASCAR race in 1992...

[Silverhair]

120. Hey, the President also pitches the first ball of the baseball season.

One of the perks of being an incumbent president is that you can use the ceremonial part of the office to make appearances. Both sides do it.

[Peregrine]

157. Bill France Jr. is a Democrat

The Orlando Sentinel last week had an article about Bush* visiting Daytona and mentioned that France is a Democrat but is willing to serve as host for any dignitary, Republican or Democrat. And every President since Ronnie has attended the Daytona 500.

For those who don't know, the France family owns NASCAR, the Grand American Racing Series (see Daytona 24 hour), and International Speedway Corp. which owns several tracks to include Daytona, Darlington, and Taladega.

And for those who think only the rednecks attend, it is an expensive proposition to attend a NASCAR race. Something like 70% of those attending a race is from out-of-state. Tickets run $80+ each for the cup race but you can get tickets for the other weekend events, motel rooms run $150 a night for a sh!t hole to $300 a night for a Ramada with a three night minimum. So a weekend at the races could cost a family of 4 $2000 or more.

[YNGW]

12. Racin'

I like auto racing, but more in person than on TV. But, I know a bunch of people who are glued to it every Sunday.

>The impression, pushed by teh right that Nascar is limited to Republican, blue collar working class people

I don't believe it's "pushed by the right", and I would exchange the word "Republican" with "conservative". I would have to say the average blue collar working class person is conservative when it comes to social issues and has in the past voted Democrat because of the unions, working class roots, FDR, etc... IMO, if our party were to move more towards liberal economic policies and conservative social policies we could wipe up during elections.

[arewethereyet]

28. agreed

the Democratic Party left the Democrats behind in large part.

[MrSlayer]

4. I just think it's stupid.

Left turn, left turn, left turn.....Whoopie!

[_Jumper_]

93. Yeah

And seeing a bunch of guys running up a court throwing a ball into a hoop is soooooo dramatic!

[drdigi420]

103. yes, much

and you get teh bonus of not being surrounded by drunken hillbillies yelling wooooo at the cars as they go pass, again, and again, and again

[arewethereyet]

133. I gather you have never been to a race

its drunken yuppies and drunken rednecks and the only yell "wooooo" occasionally

[damnraddem]

5. There are such a wide variety and complexity of ...

interests, hobbies, avocations, and obsessions in this country; and that makes things interesting. But some folks, including NASCAR folks get into a mindset that if you're not interested in theirs, then you should be written off. By the same token, others get into a mindset that if you ARE interested in something, like obsessed with NASCAR, then there's something wrong with you. Just don't ask me to be interested in NASCAR, and I won't dis those who are.

[arewethereyet]

29. I officially ask that you only become interested in NASCAR if you wish it

how's that ?

[Indiana Democrat]

6. Hicks like NASCAR...

Hicks vote Repuke.


Not my opinion, just trying to answer your question...It's kind of like the bashing Christians take around here.

[RebelOne]

76. Well, I can sort of agree with you.

I worked for a while at a flea market on weekends in Acworth, GA. And all the rednecks (I mean real rednecks -- the heavily tattooed ones with 2 or 3 barefooted kids and a pregnant wife) would say to me that they had to rush home to watch the NASCAR races.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

7. While I am not a fan of NASCAR, I do not understand the.....

anomosity towards it.

The hate of NASCAR comes from a stereotype of NASCAR people are
are a bunch of right wing, Bushler loving, rednecks, which it
NOT TRUE. NASCAR has a very diverse fan base unlike
Country "Music".

Country "Music" is another story. Most Country "artists" are openly
REICH WINGERS who love BUSHLER and hate anyone who critisizes him.
As we saw by the Dixie Chicks assault, the base of the Country Community is HIGHLY intolerant of dissent. Not all Country "artists"
are this way. There was Johnny Cash, there is Willy Nelson,
and now Merle Haggard, and I am sure that a few others exist.

But most the Country people are :puke:.

But, this hate towards NASCAR is stupid. I do not recall any NASCAR
people attacking those with anti-war/anti-Bush sentiments.

On edit: If NASCAR wants, it can have a bright future with an
ever increasing fan base.

Country "music" on the other hand is just about where it should be,
DEAD as the Dead Sea! :puke:

[Rich Hunt]

13. sigh

Country "Music" is another story. Most Country "artists" are openly
REICH WINGERS who love BUSHLER and hate anyone who critisizes him.
As we saw by the Dixie Chicks assault, the base of the Country Community is HIGHLY intolerant of dissent. Not all Country "artists"
are this way. There was Johnny Cash, there is Willy Nelson,
and now Merle Haggard, and I am sure that a few others exist.

C'mon, this isn't true EITHER.

I think if people could get over their snobbery, we could welcome a lot of these people back.

As it is, the Democratic Party has the whiff of Northeast liberal upper middle-class snobbery. This isn't helpful. It's your job as a 'liberal' to try to understand other cultures.

I think the -business- side of country is more 'intolerant' than the artist & fan side of it. Business and marketing as institutions are conservative.

[Indiana Democrat]

21. THANK YOU!!!

There was a day not long ago when a typical Democrat took his working class family out for a fun-filled night at the local races and on the way, listed to some good country music.

Not anymore...

THEY'RE ALL INBRED HICKS AND WE HATE THEM SO THEY MUST BE REPUKES!!!

[October]

39. double sigh

Your quote about "the whiff of Northeast liberal upper middle-class snobbery" wasn't so understanding, my friend.

It's just as wrong to bash/stereotype NE dems too.

Remember that ad calling Vermonters "hippies" "freaks" and "latte drinkers"? Obviously, everyone would rather make things up about the NE. It's not just the southerners who get bashed.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

45. BINGO!

.

[Rich Hunt]

50. like it or not

...the northeast is a media & financial center.

As such, I think they are blind to their biases. I think their culture is privileged over the others. People in more remote areas feel neglected. Snobbery is directed by the privileged toward the less privileged.

And yes, it's unfortunate that Vermonters had to be stereotyped that way.

[eileen_d]

65. Unfortunately, I agree

I think the stereotyping is bad on both sides, but there are some real factors behind it, which dymaxia has described. I say this as someone from Montana who lived in the northeast for four years, so I'm not the most objective source... but my friends who went east for college had similar impressions.

[October]

89. It works both ways

My husband flies as a pilot for a company based in the south. You might be very surprised at the comments he gets since he's from "the north." Their assumptions are astounding.

[Deja Q]

49. Culture?! You've got to be kidding!

America's culture, as it stands, is that of exploitation, finding fame for 15 minutes in something cheezy and manufactured and then discarding them for something else that turns our fancy for another 15 miuntes, and waste of materials and resources.

America's culture is the SUV, Britney Spears, and "Friends" (a TV show that's so asinine because of what these friends do for a living compared to the part of town they live in and yet don't have 3 jobs and have the time to be with each other...)

Meanwhile, we have tv and movies that ROMANTICIZE fairness and equality. Yet "Contact" was the only movie I'd seen where a lead character reminds us "Life is what we make of it". How come life is what we have now, rather than what we romanticize it to be? We as a society choose what happens. Disgusting concept, isn't it? But it's true.

I am a liberal and I seem to understand at last a portion of culture. What I have seen is depressing. What else can I do? :-(

[Rich Hunt]

53. you've got it wrong

If you think that all there is to 'culture' in America is what you see on tv, then maybe you need to stop watching tv so much.

We have a wonderfully diverse country with so many regional and ethnic cultures. To characterize American culture by a few pop culture items is reductive and unfair.

[arewethereyet]

58. and culture isn't restricted to the high brow

serious bluegrass is as compelling as Verdi albiet in a different way.

[Indiana Democrat]

16. Bashing Country Music too?

Geeeeeeeze...

[PROGRESSIVE1]

19. I have nothing against NASCAR and I have defended it.

I will NOT defend the Country community for any reason!
You are not being truthful by saying "Bashing Country Music Too."
This implies that I was bashing NASCAR along with Country, which I
was NOT.

NASCAR: YEA!!!!!!!
COUNTRY: NAY!!!!!!!

:eyes:

Just say no to Country "Music".

[Indiana Democrat]

22. It's no wonder we're losing more and more in the heartland.

We're totally and completely out of freaking touch.

[YNGW]

24. Amen!

Preach it brother.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

27. I am not the national party, I do not have to appease these....

people, SO STOP ATTACKING ME!!!!!!!!


:Puke:

[Speed8098]

54. What was that??

"I am not the national party, I do not have to appease these...."
Posted by PROGRESSIVE1

As long as we post here, we represent the party.

You should know that DU is quoted quite frequently in the mainstream, and this intolerance I'm seeing here today is not the face of the party I want to be involved with.

What the hell is going on?

It doesn't matter what part of the country you come from, or what music you listen to. Why should I care what sports you choose.

Do you have a job? Got enough food for your family? How about the mortgage, can you pay it this month? Need some help? Gotta go to the Doctor? Are you covered?

These are the things that matter. My party, the Democratic Party, icludes all. Even those of you who haven't yet realized what it means to be a Democrat, you will.

Now stop the bullshit. This kind of rhetoric and intolerance is only fuel for the right wing propaganda machine.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

95. Don't preach to me!!!!!!!!!!!

I am not going to take this "bullshit" from you.

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT party and nothing says that I
have to like or dislike something.

We are a BIG TENT party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember!

:eyes:

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Silverhair]

121. Exactly!!! That's why I gripe about the use of the word "sheeple"...

on this forum. When we needlessly run down a group of people, we send some of them into the Rep voting column. We don't help ourselves when we do that.

[drdigi420]

104. bashing it against a rock

as it should be

[PROGRESSIVE1]

17. If we are "Northeast Liberal Elitists" then Country people are...

"ignorant rednecks"!

:eyes:

:puke:

[PVnRT]

8. It's "redneck"

And therefore unacceptable to many around here.

[Indiana Democrat]

9. Here's a perfect example...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1128068

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. It's because...

I really like Drag Racing. ;-)

[Rich Hunt]

18. I don't watch NASCAR

....but I'll bet it's more fun than watching golf, and less exclusive.

[justsam]

14. to set for

2-3 hrs and watch cars going around a circle, to me is a waist of time, I can just flip channels every 50 laps and not miss a thing. i believe a good share of the fans are there to see blood and not a winner'

[arewethereyet]

34. You may be confusing it with hockey

I hope you will accept that if you knew what to watch that you would miss quite a lot over fifty laps.

[Shoedogg]

20. I hate NASCAR...

...because it's, as I once read in Sports Illustrated quoting a fan of racing, a "white man's sport."

I know, I know. I'm sure it's not true that ALL NASCAR fans think like this. But when I think of NASCAR, I think of southern racists, I think of low-class, I think of beer-drinking and wife-beating.

But that's just me....

[PVnRT]

23. What about golf? Polo? Lacrosse? Hockey?

You could make the same argument for each.

[Shoedogg]

78. As far as...

...being almost totally exclusive to whites, yes.

As far as making me think of a stereotypical racist redneck, nope. The argument just doesn't hold.

[Rich Hunt]

25. so...

'low-class' = wife-beating, racist
southerners = racist
NASCAR = southern and exclusively working-class

...and beer drinking is bad?

All silly.

I mean, skiing is kinda a white people's sport as well.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Indiana Democrat]

26. What about people who "Hate Rap Music"?

"Because it's music for Blacks"???

Whould you let someone like that get away with saying...

"But that's just me"

???


Not trying to flame...Just curious as to where you draw the line.


(And if it matters, I don't care for country OR rap. I'm a hardcore Rock and Roller, myself).

[Shoedogg]

77. I'm sorry...

...I'm really not trying to be dense here, but how are these two things related?

[arewethereyet]

36. thats interesting considering all the blacks I see at races

and I don't mean a handfull. Seriously.

[QC]

56. Unfortunately, it's not just you, and that kind of prole-hating

has a lot to do with us being a minority party.

And the fact that you exclusively identify the working class with boozing and wifebeating says a lot, none of it good.

[Shoedogg]

81. Sorry...

...but, yes, I do. And I'm part of it.

[Silverhair]

122. If it's "white" it is only because other races just aren't interested.

The different races in America DO tend to have subcultures that go with each, and that means differences in the things that culture finds interesting. That is neither good nor bad, it just is.

NASCAR is not closed to any race. Get up the sponsorship for your car, qualify race it, & you can be in too.

[shanti]

142. not interested?

pah-leeze. when i see a black nascar driver, i'll change my tune.

[talleyJudy]

155. 'seekthetruth', get ready to "change my tune"

Back in the '50s when NASCAR first began, there was Wendell

Scott, a black man, who raced quite often in the Grand National

Division (what is now the Cup Division) He died several years

ago.

But if you really want to 'see' a black NASCAR driver, I have a

surprise for you...THERE IS ONE!

Bill Lester drives in the NASCAR Craftsman Truck Series. Bill

drives the #22 Toyota for Bill Davis Racing... The past two years he

drove a Dodge in the same series for Bobby Hamilton.

If you are really interested in watching Bill Lester race, the

Truck series will be in Hampton, GA, March 13, at 1:pm.. If you can't

get tickets (hehehehe), the race will be televised on Speed Channel.

BTW, many teams (Cup included) are seeking sponsors, including

Bill Davis Racing. I noticed that there was a 'dust up' among the

'fans' because the Rev. Jesse Jackson 'skook down' the France family

for a quarter of a mill last year, and I also noticed that he is NOT

'sponsoring' a local, grass roots, black driver or black team owner.

:think:

[cushla_machree]

134. hahah me too

Whats so fun about watching cars go around and around and around and around. It just seems so simple minded (stereotype, i know!). I can't fathom the draw of watching a nascar race. aren't all cars more or less the same? Id rather watch horse racing.

[jmowreader]

143. No, there are different kinds of cars

Race shops will build different cars for different conditions. The car you run at Talladega is not the car you run at Martinsville. Talladega is an aerodynamics track. At Martinsville, the last guy with brakes left wins the race, and at Watkins Glen you have to set the car up to turn both left and right. Chicago is a weird track; it doesn't have a long straight section, so you're dealing with complex turns. Rockingham requires a great deal of tolerance for worn-out tires because the track is so rough.

Okay, scenario: You, I and Kamika are Nextel Cup drivers. You have a Chevrolet, I have a Ford and she has a Dodge. She and I are running side-by-side and need an aero push from another car to get to the front. Your mission is to get past either Kamika or I, then pass HawkerHurricane (who's also in a Chevy) to take the lead. Your car drafts better with Dodges than with Fords, but last week you bumped Kamika on the way to the front and she may still be pissed off about that. Do you get behind me and hope quality driving will overcome my being in a Ford, or do you get behind Kamika and hope she doesn't decide to side-draft off my car in an attempt to keep you back there?

[HawkerHurricane]

145. I wouldn't mind you using my name...

If you hadn't put me in a Chevy...

As for NASCAR...

I don't watch it, never really liked it. Used to watch Grand Prix circuit... Formula One was 'cool'. But now I find it boring. I also find Golf, Hockey, Basketball and Soccer boring. Baseball can only be watched live or listened to on the radio; televised it is boring. Football is perfect for television, not so good live. Football on radio is only good if the announcer is a fan and gets enthused.

There are a lot of stereotypes in the world; NASCAR fans being uneducated white rednecks who vote Republican is one of them. I try not to judge people by thier choice of sports. The fact that most of the NASCAR fans who I've met were uneducated white rednecks who vote Republican when they bother didn't help.

BTW...
My Grandpa on my mom's side always said he was a redneck; a redneck being someone who couldn't hire farmhands and had to work his own fields... voted Democratic his whole life.

[shanti]

141. thank you!

nascar is the last stand for white men...is there even a black nascar driver? that's another reason i dislike it.

[depakid]

30. It may have to do with the confederate flags

that so often get waved around at NASCAR events. See, e.g.,

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-bush16feb16,1,7307887.story?coll=la-headlines-politics

Personally, I think Howard Dean was right- we should reach out (notice I didn't say pander) to these folks, because whether they realize it or not, they share much more in common with us than they do with Republicans.

[arewethereyet]

51. I guess, though I see them everywhere I go

At least at the races its seens as just stupid and ignored much like an unruly child.

[Zero Gravitas]

31. NASCAR Bashing

I agreed the NASCAR bashing around here is silly. its a popular sport among many demographics in this country, not just the stereotypical white southern "redneck". Personally I can't stand NASCAR and its "sportsertainment" approach to motor racing, but the broad brush stereotyping of NASCAR fans is just silly. Many of the NASCAR fans are exactly the kind of people the Dems need to be going after in the next election. They are just one "ah-ha" moment away from stitching from the GOP (and many are already Dems we just don't need to dis them.)

[Heyo]

38. Nascar has 75,000,000 fans in the US.....

we have, what, 300,000,000 people? That is about 1/4 of the US population who consider themself a NASCAR fan.

I would imagine that alot of the bashing is just because alot of those fans have different political views than 99.99% of DUers... that's why "the whole sport is stupid, the people are a bunch of ignorant hicks, etc..."

I can respect people who just don't like it....

But to try and make a politcs thing out of NASCAR... it's NOT political.

It's racing. It's about racing... it's for people who like racing. Just because the fand may tend to lean one way doesn't make the whole thing political.

It's about racing. If you like it you like it, if you don't you don't.. but I am against politicizing NASCAR.

Heyo

[drdigi420]

105. its not about racing

its about selling shit

if it was really about racing there would be more than just american cars on the track and there would be turns in both directions

[Silverhair]

124. For many people here, EVERYTHING is political, 2/7/365.

And even on leap year they don't take a break on Feb 29.

Personally, I like to have a lot of my life that isn't political.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Personally, I don't like cars in general

and the idea of wasting gasoline driving a bunch of them around in a circle seems really silly. But it makes no less sense to me than tennis, which I find as boring as golf to watch, and I can't stand playing either one.

That being said, the Dems would not have lost so many NASCAR fans if they'd tended to business during the 1970s and 1980s and not caved in to the Reagan revolution while letting the Republicans paint them as the party of the Brie-eating Northeastern elites giving free handouts exclusively to non-white non-males while inviting the Communists to come in and take over.

The New Deal coalition held together because it had something for everyone. This year, the Dems need to emphasize the economic issues, the ones that affect everyone, regardless of race or gender or sexual orientation or belief system. Health care, education, affordable housing, jobs, workers' rights, real tax reform--there are plenty of winning issues out there.

[DrWeird]

37. It makes coaching college football look like the UN.

And it's the racing equivalent of watching paint dry. It's kind of like curling only boring. Or like professional wrestling without the talent.

[arewethereyet]

44. I've watched all forms of racing

it is a little different than some but no less interesting to me.

[waywest]

40. I prefer cars that can turn left AND right.

Funny how NASCAR races only go LEFT.
Maybe a subliminable message to send out there.

[arewethereyet]

46. there are two venues that can satisfy that requirement

oddly, they area generally considered the more boring of the events.

[jayfish]

57. Not To Mention That...

the road racing folks always try to sneak (well not really sneak) a ringer (see road course champion) into the each of the NASCAR road races. They get thumped every time. Also take a look at the IROC series. I think that the last time a non-NASCAR driver won IROC was Al Unser Jr. in the mid-nineties. And as a NASCAR fan I can tell you that the road course races ARE the more boring of events.

Jay

[arewethereyet]

60. I find them boring as well

but the reason Boris Said doesn't win is that a lot of the drivers do have open wheel on their resumes.

Thats actually a good point, Tony Stewart had a promising and lucrative career in open wheel and came over.

[jayfish]

62. Jeff Gordon Was Raised...

an open wheeler. TS was an excellent open wheeler. When he said he was going to give NASCAR a try, I chuckled. He proved me wrong. I just like to argue with the people who insinuate that NASCAR is a no-talent league. I like all motor-sports.

Jay

[Heyo]

67. yeah.....

I hear rumors tony might go back to open-wheel...

is this true?

[ThoughtCriminal]

71. What about figure-8 racing?

Left and right - hardly dull.

[Heyo]

55. Just for the sake of accuracy...

There are 2 road coarses raced each year in NASCAR.. they have both right and left turns. Watkins Glen and Sears Point.

[Deja Q]

42. Witness:

* The danger to human life: Not just the spectators, but the drivers as well. Yes, it is dangerous to go driving in circles for 2 hours straight. Seeing them crash into each other, into a wall, or seeing a car malfunction is probably what induces orgasm in many of the spectators, but I only see tragedy brought about by stupidity and pointless waste. This is entertainment?!

* The waste of resources (oil) that cannot possibly be replaced. Not only is it a sheer waste, it makes us look even worse in the eyes of the world, as we use far more of these resources than everybody else combined. People with brains know this stuff is going to run out, so why do we continue creating more races, mindlessly burning up more of the stuff that much more quickly?! Oil for gas, oil for motor oil, oil for the plastic used in parts of the car... you'd be amazed at the versatility of plastic and how it's entwined in our society. GE can also make as many advertisements pompously promoting plastic as being a wonderful thing, but unless they include a statement on the use of oil as a primary component of plastic, they are wasting money in their pompous promotion. (fortunately, I haven't seen that commercial in a couple of years...)

Both of these are strong and utterly legitimate reasons to hate the sport. They weigh far more heavily than "I've watched it 500,000 times as a kid so I don't see the problem so I don't see why people hate it", forgive my audacity when paraphrasing to back up my moralizing.

As to waving the flag, I could care less. Ever since Iraq, where our faux job of "liberating" them ended so many sorties with some dumbfuck raising the US flag (clearly showing our dominance, conquest, and status as an unwelcomed INVADER and not a friendly liberator, duh) before someone else told the guy to take the flag down (and probably got promoted for raising the flag instead of punished, the flag take-down being a tawdry media event only)... The flag has been so misused and abused and downgraded, I can only raise the flag in an UPSIDE-DOWN state. We are in a humongous crisis of unparalleled proportion, and that's what an upside-down flag indicates.

Am I a treehugger? You can bet your sweet bippy I am. And I have every right to be angry, particularly at the wasting of resources.

[Heyo]

47. So.... let me get this straight..

It's up to you and you alone how we use resources? And you don't think any should be used to race cars, therefore nobody should race cars?

[fudge stripe cookays]

130. No it's up to ALL of us,

and what HypnoToad is saying echoes perfectly what I and many others think.

NO, racing may not be political, but it damn sure evades common sense and common decency. It's a WASTE. Besides, it's stupid.

"Left turn, Clyde."

[MrSandman]

153. How much oil is used...

By Super Bowl Spectators
World Series Fans
NASCAR fans
College football fans...ad nauseum....to get to the venue?

A LOT more than used by the NASCAR teams.

[PragMantisT]

48. I watch NASCAR (go Mark go)

and just about all motor sports.

I wonder if the freepers hate football (soccer).

[jayfish]

61. I Feel For Ya Man.

MM is a class act. He practically revolutionized health and fitness issues in the sport. Guess he forgot to dose his car with enough Viagra yesterday though. If you haven't done so yet, check out the WRC. They are some of the best drivers in auto racing. You can probably catch some replays of the Rally Sweden (snow and ice) on the Speed Channel. i think I heard that the average speed for the first day was 120mph... in the snow.

Jay

[Wells]

63. Don't worship cars

NASCAR: a sport (sic) that glorifies reckless endangerment; ego-maniacally competitive road rage; encouragement of the widespread waste of a finite, heavily polluting natural resource; driving in circles like a dogs chasing their tails.

It isn't enough that US cities are deluged with traffic daily, heavily polluted air and water by this traffic, making neighborhoods, communities and commercial districts hazardous, incurring costs which are deferred into other costs of living, (housing, health care, food, etc). No, we have to further elevate the automobile as entertainment, even at its most reckless potential. Yea!! Cars go zoom!! Oh boy!!

[JohnOneillsMemory]

84. Amen. "Vroomanian Nulture" my dad calls America. "In-Car-cerated."

Automobile culture is a major symptom of how destructive and inhumane our country is.

As long as you need a car and a driver's license to go anywhere and do anything, the POLICE STATE has you captive and controlled.

All Merkins do is drive around and buy shit. Privately owned malls and bedroom 'communities' replace real neighborhoods and downtowns.

You know why there was an anti-BushWar protest of a million people in Italy? Because they have public transportation and car-free outdoor urban areas with cafes where people sit and talk to each other-COMMUNITY. Not just fucking malls isolated by highways.

Isolated in speeding ballistic cans destroying the environment, cut off from nature, cut off from each other. A culture of motorized death polluting the world.

Highways destroyed urban communities and public transportation in the 50s. No more community, loss of humanity.

Our lives are spent hostage to jobs supporting our G-force addiction.
We must buy cars, OIL, insurance, OIL, bad food, OIL, invade OIL producing countries.

That's what's wrong with NASCAR and America.

[Heyo]

86. I'm anxious to hear your plan...

.. on how we should get from place to place.

Not trying to bait homie... just wondering what you've got in mind.

Heyo

[JohnOneillsMemory]

90. Exactly. How do we move now? You can't get anywhere without a car!

Because this country was developed as automobile-accessed only after WWII.

And we've allowed ourselves to be shackled to our cars economically.

The people are divided and conquered. Eisenhower saw how effective Hitler's autobahns were in mobilising his forces.

The automobile companies helped finance the dismantling of the rail system and trolley cars in the 1950s. Now this admin. is denying funds for Amtrak. Gee, I wonder why?

There are numerous books on the topic of the systemic tragedy of this country's automobile culture that took over the country in the 1950s.

Read 'Aphalt Nation' or 'End of the Road'-don't know the authors.

It is possible to change and maybe our oil wars will help wake us up.

[Butterflies]

127. I like the way you expressed that

I've never thought of it that way before.

[EV1Ltimm]

64. I frequented sprint car races...

so i must be what's scraped off the bottom of the barrel.

[reprehensor]

66. What a waste of non-renewable energy.

What a waste of time.
What a useless distraction for the hoi polloi. Wouldn't want them to be spending any time on something useful.
The West needs to step away from fossil fuels, not embrace them.

[QC]

68. Perhaps you could give us 'hoi polloi' a list of acceptable entertainments

You know, some things that aren't too counterrevolutionary, don't waste energy, etc. Just to enlighten us a bit.

[fudge stripe cookays]

131. How about reading...

working at a homeless shelter,
volunteering for your favorite candidate,
gardening,
home improvement projects,
bicycling,
kayaking,
walking,
jogging,
aerobics,
yoga,
paint a picture,
write a novel,
tai-chi,
tae-bo,
kickboxing,
surfing the net,
hosting a party,
riding a horse,
visiting an arboretum so you can appreciate nature instead of destroying it,
take your dog for a walk,
visit a museum,
go fly a kite...................................

GET IT? There are virtually hundreds of "hoi polloi pursuits" that don't destroy the environment and promote happiness and well-being for others.

You should try one sometime instead of wasting your brain cells. Your ridiculous protestations sound like some of the nonsense we hear from freepers about why they drive gas guzzlers.

[QC]

158. Oh please.

I'm not a NASCAR fan and I quite enjoy a trip to the arboretum.

What I was getting at was the breathtakingly self-righteous snobbery of the previous post and, indeed, most of the anti-NASCAR commentary here, a point that you have made far better than I could have hoped to.

Let's be honest here. Given the country's enormous fuel consumption, what gets burned up at Daytona is insignificant. The real problem that most people here have with auto racing is that it is considered the sport of white Southern proles. Much of the faux concern about Mother Earth is just windowdressing covering ugly, old-fashioned snobbery.

[Heyo]

69. I'll be with ya....

As soon as you can get 800 HP out of a hydrogen fuel cell, I'm right behind ya...

As soon as you get one of those hybrids up to 200 MPH.

Until then.... love the smell o' that racing fuel. :evilgrin:

Heyo

[drdigi420]

102. check out the BMW 750 ih

hydrogen powered and high performance

but then again, nascar is scared to race against foreign automobiles

nascar is, after all, just one huge commercial for substandard cars, overpriced laundry detergent, old man dick fixers, beer, and cigarettes

it started out as a way to sell cars, which is why they won't let the foreign cars compete. it doesnt help your publicity to keep being beaten by BMW and Mercedes and Porsche all the time.

[ThoughtCriminal]

70. I prefer Demolition Derby

Why sit around waiting for an accident?

[Blue_Tires]

72. live axles, carbureted engines, "stock" cars that

don't even look like their real world counterparts...Nevermind the fact that it is so hemogenized, commercialized, and the rules and engine/engineering restrictions are slanted to the point that all the cars are alike, other than color.

And add to the fact that every team openly admits to cheating (just a little gamesmanship), or causing other cars to wreck yet gripes when the rules committee comes down hard on their team/car style, or tries to enforce any kind of discipline...

Simply put, NASCAR is not real racing, IMO. I like IRL, WRC, ALMS, hell, even NHRA, which i feel is more pure in its heart than NASCAR...And I say this as a Virginian who was born and raised on NASCAR (back when it was a strictly southern thing)

[Jose Diablo]

73. That..is why its a sport

"engine/engineering restrictions are slanted to the point that all the cars are alike, other than color".

Its more than just the car, its the driver, and a little good fortune too, that determines who wins.

THAT makes NASCAR a sport.

[jayfish]

99. Yeah IRL Is Awesome. Especially When there's Like, Two...

cars on the lead lap at the finish. ZZZZZzzzzzzzzz

Jay

[BlueStateGirl]

74. Snobbery, elitism, and a disdain for anything that

"hicks" might enjoy.

NASCAR is no more or less pointless than any other sport. Men running up and down a court or field chasing after a ball can hardly be deemed more purposeful than cars going around a track.

It's entertainment. That's all. I guess it's just enjoyed by the wrong kind of people.

[QC]

75. BINGO!!! nt

[JohnOneillsMemory]

87. Maybe for some. But there is so much more OIL related, POWER worshipping.

Automobile culture is a major symptom of how destructive and inhumane our country is. Hurtling past a world we have no relationship with. Worshipping faster, stronger, louder, bigger.

As long as you need a car and a driver's license to go anywhere and do anything, the POLICE STATE has you captive and controlled.

All Merkins do is drive around and buy shit. Privately owned malls and bedroom 'communities' replace real neighborhoods and downtowns.

You know why there was an anti-BushWar protest of a million people in Italy? Because they have public transportation and car-free outdoor urban areas with cafes where people sit and talk to each other-COMMUNITY. Not just fucking malls isolated by highways.

Isolated in speeding ballistic cans destroying the environment, cut off from nature, cut off from each other. A culture of motorized death polluting the world.

Highways destroyed urban communities and public transportation in the 50s. No more community, loss of humanity.

Our lives are spent hostage to jobs supporting our G-force addiction.
We must buy cars, OIL, insurance, OIL, bad food, OIL, invade OIL producing countries.

When Schwarzenneger wanted his own Humvee after BushWar I, he single-handedly boosted the trend of SUV design and ownership that is part of remilitarizing our civilian culture. Death on wheels for a death-worshipping people.

That's what's wrong with NASCAR and America.

[Wells]

98. a ridiculous sport

In some ways, I regret starting this discussion about the way NASCAR and motorized sports is indicative of moral lapse. Yes, I'm snobbishly against NASCAR as senselessness, recklessness, its' fans obliviousness regarding the automobile's impacts and costs that affect everyone. NASCAR celebrates destruction, more than speed.

[drdigi420]

101. you say that like its a bad thing

i dont like country music, pro wrestling, ford trucks, or fucking my sister either, does that make me an elitist?

[BlueStateGirl]

115. How did you make the leap from Nascar to

fucking your sister?

I have no issue with people not liking the NASCAR. I don't especially like it. I do, however love cars. And prefer Formula 1 or drag racing. My problem is the disdain with which some view the fans.

As if prefering golf or tennis or soccer to watching cars circle a track is somehow more worthy. Or denotes anything about the character of those enjoy the sport.


As for country music... a good deal of it is crap. But Lucinda, Willie, Dolly, and Johnny more than make up for that.

[LeahMira]

85. A few reasons...

So if its something besides "just because" I'd like to hear it.

Well, for one thing, here we are trying to save energy and fighting wars over oil, and pollution hangs in our air and floats on top of our water, but here are a bunch of guys using up gas and oil and at the very least stinking up the air around the race track just because they can. They couldn't race bikes?

Then there's the rather expensive cars they manage to crash from time to time, not to even mention the occassional life that is lost or the bones that are broken. This they call fun?

Yes, I understand that people could break a leg falling off the steps of their own front porch, and I understand that it takes a certain talent to race cars and keep them on the track at high speeds, but surely there are other ways of demonstrating driving skill that don't involve such direct violence to and waste of the earth's resources as well as the deliberate risk to life and limb.

[Heyo]

88. I guess...

...the concept of someone doing something they love and probably dreamed of all their life to do escapes you....

If you like it, watch. If you don't, turn the channel and don't go to the track. It can't be simpler.

Heyo

[arewethereyet]

91. OK, thanks

I guess I see the fuel as a drop in the bucket, the emmisions are not nearly as bad as rubber and brake at least in terms of stink. And the manufacturing side I see as a positive as it employes a lot of Americans (yes, actual Americans).

But your points are taken and appreciated.

[K8-EEE]

94. It's Portrayed As A Bunch Of Bush-Fawning Idiots Who Are 80% GOP

Plus it's a loud, obnoxious, stupid sport IMO. I went once in Reno, ugh....

[Heyo]

96. You know...for example.

I think professional wrestling is pretty lame...

That's why I don't go to wrestling matches... and I totally respect the fact that people like it.. more power to 'em...

I'm an open minded guy, don't get me wrong..but when we get into this 'peak oil' discussion talking about racing stock cars.. It just goes a little too far out in left field.. (not talking about left-right political spectrum)... I mean... Americans have loved racing since the days of the moonshiners.... to try and turn it political just ain't right...

I find it ridiculous quite frankly.

Heyo

[Bombero1956]

97. Look

I am a Puerto Rican from Massachusetts, now how the hell does that make me a redneck hick? If you don't like Nascar or motorsports in general, then DON'T WATCH !!!!! It is amazing how a small group can band together to marginalize another group based on their choice of entertainment. I like Broadway shows too, anyone have a fucking problem with that? Do I realize that a majority of Nascar fans are repugs? Hell yeah, but I am willing to put that aside for the sake of my choice in entertainment. When I go to the track and talk to other race fans politics are the last thing we talk about. It is very easy to put down a sport when you are predisposed to not like it. What sport isn't over commercialized today, just about every sports arena has a corporate name attached to it. Just about every basketball star has a sneaker contract. We have baseball players and football coaches pushing erectile dysfunction medication on TV and yet the only overly commercialzed sport is Nascar. Such snobbery gives Democrats a bad name to because it plays into the repugs who think of us as a PC crowd.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[muffin_man]

109. Drunken toothless rednecks?

Well if that turns you off to the sport would it also turn you off to helping out at homeless shelter? I mean if you dont want to associate with "that type" and all As previous post state we should be reaching out, who cares if the person is toothless/drunk or a redneck If its just the drunken,toothless redneck part that turns you off thats kinda lame. If its the sport not the people I understand. As far as not having skill, come on now if you are a race fan you would know the very hard time drivers from any other class have making it in NASCAR.Going slow at the road course? Totally different cars!Has nothing to do with driver skill. Just American vehicles? Toyota just got in NASCAR trucks and one of the teams driver is an African-American and is a long time driver and I belive will do very well. So the redneck image is being squashed. I can't belive my first post is about racing! I had such grand schemes!

[arewethereyet]

144. then Charlotte is the track for you !

no rednecks allowed

[JackRiddler]

106. It's totally irrelevant and fun to mock

go ahead and mock all other spectator sports, while you're at it. And don't leave out all entertainments, from TV to the art museum.

Motor racing is pretty ridiculous though. Several hours of mmmmmmmmzzzzzzzoooooowwww! mmmmmmmmzzzzzzzoooooowwww! vroom, vroom. mmmmmmmmzzzzzzzoooooowwww!

In a circle!

Though I got nothing against the beer and hanging out part.

[BlueStateGirl]

117. LOL! This is a great answer.

[DemBones DemBones]

107. It's an elitist disdain for the common people

that Democrats are supposed to support.

[locustfist76]

116. exactly

That's what the national Democratic Party is becoming. Apparently NASCAR and Christianity are the most hated things in this forum. Both things are assiociated with the common man/woman. It's not a good direction for the party.

[QC]

126. Amen! n/t

[Beaker]

110. They should combine NASCAR and a Grand Prix...

it just seems so pointless- the cars going around and around and around...
why not have the NASCAR cars driving a course thru a major U.S. city...?(I recommend Chicago- LSD and the mag mile would look great on TV with stock cars whipping down them)

now that I could get into...maybe they could even keep a couple traffic lights operating along the route...

[PVnRT]

111. It's Chicago

They would just run those red lights like almost everyone seems to do up there...

[shivaji]

112. What has Nascar, Golf and Sex have in common?

Not fun watching but a huge thrill doing it LOL.

[Dude_CalmDown]

113. I absolutely hate NASCAR - Hate it in every way

-I love any kind of racing that requires at least a shred of talent - so naturally I hate NASCAR

-I love Honda - so naturally I hate NASCAR

-I love F1 - so naturally I hate NASCAR

-I love BTCC - so naturally I hate NASCAR

-I love SCCA World Challenge races - so naturally I hate NASCAR

-It takes up 99.9% of the programing on the SPEED Channel

-Several years ago I worked with about 20 of the most die-hard NASCAR fans in the world, tried to bring up football once - couldn't - apparently because "football is a Nigger Sport" - I didn't realize that.

-Fuck NASCAR. It is the most useless form of racing ever. Sure there are a few people out there who are not stupid rednecks and somehow find a way to enjoy watching a bunch of cars (virtually restricted to being the same exact fucking car) go in a circle for hours on end. Wooooooo Hoooooooo!!!! That sounds like a thrill. I know that not every NASCAR fan is a fan because they too are racist piles of shit - In fact I'll bet at least half of them are human. But it is an undeniable fact that that "sport" is as popular as it is because of it's true fan-base. Not only that but it's fucking boring as watching grass grow yet it takes about 30% of the overall programing on television. It's mind-numbing. Left! Left! Nuther Left! Left! Again! Again.

[Elwood P Dowd]

119. Thanks for giving George Bush a few extra votes

Nothing like trashing NASCAR. If 10% of their fans are on the fence and read posts like yours, guess who they vote for? Oh well, it's only 7.5 million votes. Let's keep trashing NASCAR fans since we're such an elite bunch of educated idiots.

No wonder the repubs say we will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. We have no common sense. Just read this forum a few days.

[Beaker]

123. "NASCAR dads" make up less than 2% of the electorate-

and the biggest share of them are solidly repuke.
not much of a swing voting group to begin with, and especially not one we should overly concern ourselves with.

[Dude_CalmDown]

146. What amazing power I hold!!!

I'll bet you're just jealous that you don't have complete control over how 7.5 million people will vote. But that's just the tip of the iceberg - did you know that with a slight flick of my wrist I can force over 300 million people to poke themselves in the eye until I command them to stop? Oh well at least now you have something to shoot for.

[Name removed]

128. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

150. Deleted message

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[aldian159]

118. 85% mechanic, 15% driver

that's all.

the only racing I like is rally, where the Euros drive in the countryside and it's more than a bunch of left turns in a sterile enviroment.

[Bridget Burke]

125. "the goatee is the new mullet"

It's a style difference. People have different tastes & different interests. Apparently, some people have a serious interest deficiency, so they spend their leisure time criticizing the interests of others. "Look at those fools who think they're having fun; we're having no fun, so we must be superior."

Is it so hard to turn off NASCAR & select another channel? Or take a walk? Or attend a Bergman film festival? Or go shopping for clove cigarettes?

The quotation I used is from John Nova Lomax's screed against ClearChannel radio in The Houston Press; he's describing the demographics of two local ClearChannel stations: "Broadly speaking, the Buzz is for tools with goatees and the women who love them; KLOL is for tools with mullets and the strippers who fleece them. (And the goatee is the new mullet, for what that's worth.)"

www.houstonpress.com/issues/2004-02-12/racket.html/1/index.html

[Ripley]

129. Because NASCAR just like Southerners are OK to hate here.

See there are only certain groups of people who are protected by "bigot" posts on DU...namely gay men and black people.

Note the slew of South-hating threads around. Oh, excuse me...white southerner hating threads. Some people who want the south to secede obviously have never been here, don't know that millions of black people call this home and like it here.

I may not care for NASCAR, but I also can't stand watching basketball. The anti-NASCAR posts are just a cover for more Southern-white people hatred.

Soon, these threads will die down and we'll be back to the women-hating threads.

[Heyo]

135. I'll agree with you there...

I live in the south.... Growing up around my family, I spent alot of time and was raised around alot of people some people may want to call so called rednecks or hicks whatever. I still see alot of people like that to this day when I go visit my dad. I could almost even say I am one, minus the accent and where I live. I can speak for the ones I know that they are truly not deserving of all the jokes, etc.. and the idea that it's okay to marginalize and stereotype them.

There are different traits I noticed when spending time with them other than what you often hear about. These are people who you could call at 3 o'clock in the morning with a crisis and they'd be right there. People who would stop for a total stranger if they saw you broke down on the road, drive you to an auto-parts store 50 miles away and back and help you fix your car to make sure you are ok. People who would give you anything in the world they could if you needed it. And yeah, their overzealous church thing is annoying. And yeah they do preach about God a lot and that gets annoying. I'm a Christian too, but yeah, it's a little cheesy with them. The churches also get together and cook meals for dozens of migrant workers (alot of those where my folks live) and bring them out to the job site. Gather cans and all kinds of stuff for people who need it, raise tons of money for hurricaine Andrew victims, the list goes on. (Andrew hit close to here) Alot of them like NASCAR, but aren't as into it as I am. (I collect NASCAR die-cast cars, too ;) I can only afford the cheap ones though)

I don't see their being really religious as any type of danger, I see it as maybe corny and a little annoying if they get preachy... but not the types to try and impress their views on other people. Aside from the occasionaly overzealous official with a fundy religious view who almost always gets shot down, I don't see this big supposed attempt to force Christianity on people. I see it in a few cases, but when I do the courts seem to rule against the Christian side.

You can pick a bad sub group out of any group. Everyone takes shots at the 'beer swilling trailer trash', but what if we made jokes about black people being criminals, arabs being terrorists? Nobody in their right mind would do that.

That's my rant for now. Bottom line is the rednecks are all good as far as I'm concerned. :toast:

Heyo

Thanks fer noticin'
-Eyeore

[Ripley]

136. I noticed you Heyo.

The DU is a hard place for southerners to try to get even treatment...

We are very often stereotyped for the worst.

[Heyo]

137. Amen brother...

Hang on a sec, let me just grab my hat with the 2 beer holders on the sides and the tubes you drink out of....wooohoooo! :headbang:

:toast: Ripley

Heyo

[dawn]

132. My hubby and I are doing a website for a Busch league racer...

We are working for my friend's new start-up company on the side, and she is a longtime friend of a racer from Massachusetts. I knew absolutely nothing about racing until late last year. I have had to do some target market research and it is true that NASCAR is growing as a sport, and into higher income brackets, etc.

Our friend just loves racing. When she came over to dicuss the site one day, we watched some race (not sure which one). I found it really boring but bit my tongue, of course. And meeting some of the people associated with it confirmed some of my previous notions (alot of the fans just love Bush*, were gung-ho about the war, etc.), but not all of them. I talked to a few fans who were Democrats and loathed him.

It's been an interesting experience.

[amandabeech]

138. I don't care for auto racing much in general because

it's just too noisy for me to enjoy in person. I find distance races like NASCAR and Indy boring on TV, although the short races are a little better. If I want to see something racing around the track, I'll watch ponies or humans. I'd rather smell road apples or human sweat than auto exhaust and kerosene fumes,

I know NASCAR has a reputation for attracting a hard-core, nasty crowd, but I've known perfectly decent people from many walks of life, with all sorts of neck colors, who like it. Who am I to judge what sports other people like?


Amanda

[Heyo]

139. Well...

I think..

"I know NASCAR has a reputation for attracting a hard-core, nasty crowd,"

.. is a misconception.

Heyo

[arewethereyet]

149. just an aside in case you didn't know, horse racing is cruel to horses

a horse's skeletal system is not developed enough to carry weight ride till 3 years of age. And that doesn't even get into the bad stuff.

[shanti]

140. yes, i can't stand nascar

i have better things to do besides watch cars go around in a circle. oh, and i hate golf and baseball too - BOOOOORIING!

give me some basketball and i'm good to go! :headbang:

[laruemtt]

148. pointless waste of oil

that our troops are dying for right now

[muffin_man]

151. This should really just end.

Why do so many like minded people have to find does seem something to call each other names over.BTW it seems as though it is the anti-nascar/pro-any other racing fans that are calling people names. Kinda goes against the steroe type of a "nascar fan".sheesh it is only entertainment not policy or anything.Stop hatin! If you can hate someone for the sport they enjoy or even hate a sport and berate people who like it how weak is that! One last thing,the oil use is so minute its not really worth mentioning. I mean 40 cars running 500 miles,hardly a drop in the oil drum.

[Elwood P Dowd]

156. Most just hate southerners

NASCAR = southern, bear drinking, rebel flag waving, redneck, etc. Even though NASCAR is not a southern sport anymore, that's what they think.
They refuse to believe 75 million fans follow the sport, even though all the marketing departments of Fortune 500 companies can prove it.

Basically, many upper middle class liberals or progressives practice their own form of racism directed at certain classes of people. It appears that southerners and NASCAR fans are their favorite targets lately. They don't practice what they preach. Remember the ole' saying,
"Do as I say, not as I do". If these characters controlled the Democratic Party, we wouldn't get 20% of the vote come November. By the time they got through with their "intellectual cleansing", there wouldn't be much left.

[Dob Bole]

154. This thread is a pointless waste of oil...

Is that what this board has been reduced to? Stereotyping people who watch the races? Sheesh, with friends like you who needs enemies...

[scarface2004]

159. average iq of nascar...

46

average iq of those who say nascar sucks....146

do the math

[Elwood P Dowd]

162. Moon Unit likes NASCAR

That's good enough for me. BTW, I made 47 on my IQ test.

[QC]

165. I used to say that sort of thing in high school,

when I was trying to convince people that the Drama Club was better than the football team.

It wasn't very convincing back then either.

[fujiyama]

160. I find it boring...

I don't really have a problem with most other real sports -- hockey, football, basketball, soccer, whatever...But NASCAR and car racing in general doesn't feel like a real sport -- don't get me wrong, it sure requires some skill, but the endurance needed just isn't the same as one of the sports I named above.

Oh, and I will also say golf is boring as hell to watch.

I don't hate cars though. Admittadly I'm not very knowledgable about fixing a car...but if I had the time and money I'd love to work on a car.

I also think it would be fun to actually DRIVE at a NASCAR event though.

Plus, I'd also say I like imports better anyways. I also think it'd be cool to go to one of those street races, just watch of course ;-)

[Lindacooks]

161. It's noisy, wastes fuel, and

is just plain irritating.

Considering how many soldiers have died for oil, running through hundreds, if not thousands, of gallons of fuel to race around and around a track is just plain stupid.

[Heyo]

163. I don't even know how to respond..

that post is just too moronic...

My bullshit meter has just gone off the scale..

I give up.

[QC]

164. What about flying yuppies to the Caribbean?

That undoubtedly consumes more fuel.

And what about the energy and nasty chemicals needed to keep the nation's thousands of golf courses looking nice?

And then there's the millions of barrels burned up by people who drive fifty miles each way to work so that little Brytneigh and Dakota won't have to go to school with brown and black children.

I'm with you 100% about auto racing being obnoxious, but when you consider how much oil we consume in this country, the amount that auto racing takes up is, no doubt, a tiny part of it.

[Elwood P Dowd]

166. More oil is used in LA traffic in one single day

than is used by NASCAR in a year.

George Herbert Hoover Bush probably used
enough oil Sunday on Air Force One to run
the Daytona 500.