The reason why the Bush AWOL issue is registering.

[Brotherjohn]

It's not because he dodged the draft. Of course, many young men did then, and who could blame them. Clinton was accused of doing so, and we defended him.

It's not because he's a self-proclaimed "War President" and struts around on an aircraft carrier in flight gear, yet his actual career in the military is drastically at odds with that depiction. That may get under some of our skins, and even disgust us, given that he is sending men off to die in a war of choice. But that's not really what makes it register and what's making it stick.

What is making the AWOL issue stick is it that it is "Exhibit B" in the case against his credibility. More to the point, the questions about his credibility have arisen not based on personal issues from years ago, but on issues of life and death, issues that have cost the lives of hundreds of Americans, thousands of Iraqis, and could directly affect the lives of millions of Americans.

Bush has been accused of at best exaggerating, and at worst outright lying, to gain support for the Iraq War. "Exhibit A" is the fact that no WMDs have been found in Iraq, and many of the statements Bush and his staff had made leading up to the war are now known to be in direct contradiction to what was known at the time by the U.N., our own intelligence, and others.

This has opened up a very large hole in Bush's credibility in general. Now that Bush's credibility is the issue, his depiction of his military record, and failure to come clean about it, is "Exhibit B" in the case against his credibility. Yes, the fact that he now parades around in combat gear, calls himself a "war president", and says "bring'em on", makes the contradictions all the more stark. Perhaps these things are the reasons why this issue is raising more attention than some rather glaring credibility questions regarding Bush budget deficits, for instance.

But the reason it registers beyond just the AWOL issue is because now, his very credibility is at stake. ANYTHING reflecting upon Bush's credibility is now fair game, and it is because of his own actions as president.

[Catch22Dem]

1. Clinton didn't get a deferment

He drew a high number and never got called. We can speculate all day about what he would have done if his number came up, but we'll never know. Thus we're left with only the facts & the pukes have distorted them completely.

Bush dodged the draft in a much more sinister way than most folks. In the case of most National Guardsmen, they were registered for the draft and waited on some list to get into the guard. Many men were drafted while on that list, and many of those men died in Vietnam. Those who got in, knew they were lucky and fulfilled their obligation, realizing that any fuck-ups would have them on the next C-141 to Saigon. Bush, on the other hand, got in the guard thru connections, then didn't have the common sense to do his job while others were dying over there. He used family connections to avoid combat. Clinton used the luck of the draw.

[Cooley Hurd]

2. Clinton received deferrments while in college, but did register...

...for the draft upon graduation. Dick Cheney didn't even bother to register - he kept making excuses (his "other priorities").

[Brotherjohn]

6. Okay, I edited to say "was accused of"... But my whole point was that....

... this goes way beyond the issue of whether someone evaded the draft or not, which is why Bush supporter's shouts of "but you defended Clinton!" have fallen on dead ears (no, it's not the "liberal media").

It's bigger because Bush's credibility at stake, particularly on issues of life and death, and for a president who based his entire presidency on the idea that he was a straight-talker, that he you could trust him to tell the truth, that there would be no evading issues and Clintonesque word-parsing in his administration.

Clinton's credibility was "in question" (by some) because of a lie about an intensely personal matter that hurt no one save his own family's feelings, a lie that any man in the same situation would probably have told.

Bush's credibility is in question (by many more here, not to mention most of the world) because of lies told, and distortions made, and words parsed, in an official capacity regarding war and peace, and costing thousands of lives.

[Catch22Dem]

12. I'm sorry, I wasn't getting on your case

And I REALLY enjoyed your post. You put a lot of thought into it, and I didn't acknowledge that. My apologies.

[Brotherjohn]

14. Oh, I knew you weren't getting on my case. I wasn't upset at all.

I just wanted to point out that whether he avoided the draft is relatively unimportant, and not why this issue is big. Just wanted to keep the thread focused so it didn't turn into a discussion of draft evasion by Bush, Clinton, or anyone else.

The issue is making news because it further casts doubt on Bush's credibility. It's a game he himself started when he said he would bring honesty and integrity back to the White House and then lied his way into an unneccessary war.

[RapidCreek]

10. Cinton DID get a deferment.

The result ofan oral commitment to Colonel Eugene Holmes that he would join the ROTC. This commitment he never lived up to.

http://www-tech.mit.edu/V112/N3/clinton.03w.txt.html

In any case...whether or not Clinton got a deferment is immaterial. He isn't the president and hasn't been for 3 years.

RC

[Catch22Dem]

13. I stand corrected

And you are right, Clinton hasn't been prez for 3 years....unfortunately. Thanks for the info.

[Wapsie B]

3. I'm just glad

that something's finally registering with the people. Or maybe it has all along and the media whores are finally owning up to that fact.

[SpiralHawk]

4. As of today, what's the status of the AWOL issue?

I've been out of the loop for a couple of days.

What's the big picture as of today, in a nutshell.

Last I grasped of the whole AWOL enchilada, the WH was releasing tons of tangential records, but there were still big holes in their story. Calhoun was coming forward to try and boost the Chimp's story, but was being debunked because of date inconsistencies.

So? Any thing more concrete by now in terms of supporting Bush's claims of "honorable duty" or the case for his having been derelict?

[Brotherjohn]

7. See this article in... yes... USAToday.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-02-15-bush-record_x.htm

[seemslikeadream]

15. "Only George Bush knows why he was unable to continue flying

in the Guard," Roome wrote.

"It was an irrational time in his life."

Now what would make someone so irrational?

[Brotherjohn]

17. I hope the story dies down for now.

In reality, it is highly unlikely anything REALLY damning about W will come out of the AWOL thing, unless he himself talks (which ain't gonna happen).

As it stands now, the issue has AGAIN called into question his credibility. If it ends unsettled, with "only W knowing for sure", then there will always be doubts. If the press ends it saying as much, then that is very bad for Bush. He cannot say that "this matter has been settled" and get away with it (although he will no doubt try).

Think about it this way. In the past, USAToday would have been writing, at this stage in the story, that "the release of documents by the White House appeared to counter critics' claims..."

Now, USAToday is writing that "Why Bush stopped flying remains a mystery".

If the "story" ends today, the lasting impression people will have is that there is yet another reason to doubt Bush's credibilility. Candidates can bring it up as yet another instance where Bush has not been straightforward.

But if they keep harping on the specifics, it might begin to leave a bad taste in people's mouths. This is why I think Kerry is playing it REAL smart by laying off. He knows the story has already done its damage.

[Punkingal]

5. Exactly!

And the democrats need to phrase it that way now...CREDIBILITY.

[central scrutinizer]

9. credibility and hypocrisy

1. Support the Vietnam War, but make sure you don't have to go.
2. Stay out of harm's way (his words) again on September 11.
3. Dare the Iraqis to attack US troops (including reservists): "bring it on."
4. The flight suit stunt photo-op and all of the lies surrounding "Mission Accomplished."

[seemslikeadream]

8. The charge, Mr. Bush is Dereliction of Duty

In other words, it's probable that Bush missed the physical deliberately in order to force the transfer to Alabama.

What does this add to the mix? Did the scrubbed records contain any correspondence between Bush and the Texas Guard regarding the missed flight physical? Did Bush, after receiving millions of dollars worth of flight training from the Texas Army National Guard, deliberately refuse to maintain his flying privileges in order to stay in Alabama?

And if so isn't THE ISSUE also one of dereliction of duty?

Dereliction in the performance of duties

a. That the accused had certain duties;
b. That the accused knew or reasonably should have known of the duties; and
c. That the accused was (willfully) (through neglect or culpable ineffciency) derelict in the performance of those duties.

http://www.mathewgross.com/blog/

[DrBB]

11. This is the exact and damning subtext

...and deserves to be trumpeted abroad as explicitly as you have stated it here.

"Exhibit B" is precisely correct. This fact is easily missed and disguised by all the hoopla focussing on the issue itself. "How can it be secondary when it is the focus of all our attention?"--so quoth, or assumeth, the media and reichpundits one and all. It would serve Shrump very well if the matter reallly were so circumscribed: "No one cares about Viet Nam now, why not shut up? It's just politics."

But it's precisely because of the (GOP) elephant in the room that this matters:
it's not the question of what he did then, it's the question of why he has to lie about it NOW.

Here's a post I just sent to MSNBC in response to their online poll/question, "Do the viet nam war years matter?"

A simple fact: every other veteran presidential candidate in recent memory has waived privacy rights and opened his entire military file to public scrutiny. Bush is the only one who has not. Why is he, alone, afraid of his own record?

Obviously HE thinks the issue of Viet Nam still matters.

We need to keep your most excellent and telling point firmly in mind. Their OWN discomfort with the situation is powerfully evident--a subtle cue that people will pick up on more than any actual facts or data. That is the subcutaneous level at which any good scandal operates, thus all opportunities to maximize the irritant effect must be seized.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Another Aspect...

Great thoughts and posts here folks...and it got me thinking.

I missed Vietnam by one year...and still had to show up at the draft board to register on my 18th birthday in 1974. However, I for years before I didn't take anything for chance regarding my future and the military. I don't think I was alone in this thought process at the time.

In the early 70's I thought the war would go on indefinitely and I was seeing more and more of my friends and their brothers go off to this ugly war. Now, I could have headed north, but that would have devestated my family (and my funds) as well as leaving me with a bad feeling that I deserted my country in its time of need. Instead I worked actively (as one in his early teens could) in protesting the war and political campaigns (any remember Abner Mikva?).

After investigating my options (The Guard was virtually out since the slots had long since been taken by people like * and Quayle), and college deferments no longer existed. Instead I was ready to vanish into a service-realted area that would take me far away from the shit...I looked into joining AFRTS...the Armed Forces radio service...and was informed by a recruiter that if I volunteered and made it through basic, I could get in and spend the rest of my service time watching over a radio operation in Alaska. Another friend took up on a ROTC-like program that landed him in a nice desk job in Germany and still another jumped into the Navy...spending 18 months touring the Mediteranean. So there were other options to serve that one could do...and make a contribution...rather than just walk away.

I have a lot of Vietnam veteran friends who were suspect of * when the first stories of his "service record" began to surface and now are fully convinced he is as worse as a draft dodger and as bad as Clinton (considering these folks still see Clinton as evil, gauge accordingly).

Like others, I think it's time to tone down on the Deserter/AWOL stuff...the seeds are well planted and the regime couldn't kill it, and to move on to how *'s military non-record is relevent to his leading this country in on-going military activities, and how he and his henchmen are profiting. We have the dots out there...now time to connect.

[belle]

18. Well, it also drives home what a spoiled, entitled brat he is.

I mean, he got this plum gig with the National Guard, one that so many (probably more qualified young men) tried to get into; and then he just blew it off. At best, he "did his duty" with the bare minimum of what he needed to get by. Now it looks like he didn't do even that. It's the same as his Yale education-remember, Mr. C student?--but this registers a lot more, because unlike a Yale education, the National Guard saved his ass from getting killed. Meanwhile, people like Kerry, who could've also hidden in the National Guard, actually went--even though he didn't believe in the war (and Bush did...for other people). And now Mr. Chickenhawk is sending other peoples' beloved children and spouses off to get maimed, traumatized, or killed while he struts around in flyboy drag at taxpayers' expense. Playing dressup, when he avoided the real thing. He's a bloodthirsty coward and a hypocrite, and a spoiled little boy. He's DISGUSTING. Speaking of "character" issues. *That's* why this is resonating so much. It's finally sinking in, not just what kind of president, but what kind of man, he really is.

[Brotherjohn]

19. I agree with every word you say. But people weren't listening to that...

... in 2000.

Now, they are, because his credibility (and yes, his character) is open to question because of his actions re Iraq.

I don't know why he got a pass on this in 2000. But his pass has now expired.