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pippin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 09:39 AM
Original message
Why Are Gas Prices Rising?
I thought the whole point of going to Iraq was so we would all be swimming in cheap oil? What's the price per gallon in your neighborhood? Price in our neighborhood is up to $2.00 for premium and about $1.80 for regular.
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. price gouging & OPEC
Price gouging by the oil companies, as well as OPEC recently either cutting back production or refusing to increase it to meet rising demand...I forget which it was.
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whatelseisnew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. Opec is at max. capacity, their cut-back was not volutary
they can no longer extract as much oil, world production has likely peaked in the year 2000
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Zech Marquis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. my co-worker said about this
we both agree that the powers to be know that * is on the way out, so they want to milk us all before the party's over. nd the il supply is runnning out faster than they're telling all the Joe Six Packs driving H2s...
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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. we're being gouged.
simple as that.
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FreakinDJ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. That and the dollar is losing value
the dollar is trading lower and lower as the Bushit propaganda admin seeks to decive the public with the "paper recovery"
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
5. Test Marketing.
Gotta find out how much per gallon the Cattle are willing to pay and then keep it there.

:evilgrin:
dbt
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junker Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
6. Peak oil and the falling dollar. Do not expect gas price to drop again in
your lifetime....sorry. Just the way it is. I will be surprised if we do not hit $6+ a gallon by summer of 05
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. They're already talking 3 bucks a gallon
Boy, am I glad the leases on my 2 Grand Cherokees ran out last week.

I got them 5 years ago, and gas was about 89 cents a gallon then. I just bought 2 smaller fuel efficient vehicles.
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Taeger Donating Member (914 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. High gas prices ...

Overall, high gas prices will actually be good.

They provide real economic incentive for making vehicles with high gas-mileage. They provide economic incentive into alternative energy sources.

The policy of keeping gas prices low until the wells start running dry is a policy for disaster!!!

We as a civilization need to ween ourselves off of fossil fuels. I don't think they'll ever COMPLETELY go away. But we can learn to get most of our energy from solar, wind, hydroelectric, and geothermal sources.

Of course, the BIGGEST step is creating a society that uses less energy overall. Mass transit is a HUGE plus. More energy star devices is a HUGE plus. Direct taxation of vehicles that get low gas mileage is a BIG plus.

ReDeveloping communities around PEDESTRIAN traffic models will help not only our gas bills, but our wastelines as well ;-)


Environmental types have ALWAYS wanted higher gas prices. So I'm not certain why people around here are bitching.

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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Broad energy based inflation always hurts the poor the most
Edited on Sun Feb-15-04 01:37 PM by wuushew
atleast in Europe the price of gas is high through taxation which is spent hopefully in progressive and socially benefitial way. Also not only does it cause inflation, it causes stagflation which is horrible for everbody. With CAFE standards rich idiots who drive the hummers are ones being targeted. Adjusted for age the more a vehicle costs the worse its fuel economy.
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Taeger Donating Member (914 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Tax Hummers

The need for energy efficiency will NEVER be made clear until gas gas prices go up. It's that plain simple.

Our energy inefficiency is hurting the nation in indirect ways that are difficult to reflect on a receipt.

Vehicles in Europe get 80+ miles per gallon because fuel is VERY expensive. I don't want $5/gallon gas. But the economic reality MUST hit home before the spigots start to run dry. At that point, we'll have $10/gallon gas and everyone will be driving SUVs that get 15 mi/gallon.

We really have to make a case that our country needs to be MORE energy efficient. To date, only Carter managed that but his hand was forced by gas shortages.

Higher gas prices DO affect the poor most heavily. That's why you would offer tax credits to offset the loss.

The reality of high priced gas is upon us whether we like it or not. We can prepare for it, or we can go trudging on like idiots. It's better to have gas prices effectively rise over time. This will create market based incentives for fuel efficiency and car-pooling.


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Taeger Donating Member (914 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
28. Fuel saving driving techniques.

Basically, take it easy on the accelerator. Don't rev the vehicle between stop signs. Be MELLOW. You will use LESS gas that way.

People hate me for driving that way. I have a peppy little ultima and I only use the extra horsepower for getting into traffic. There is no reason to launch yourself off a stop sign as if it were a drag race. Especially when you just have to stop again in another 200 feet.

Here is a tip to annoy people like this. When someone passes you on the road and THEN are stopped at a light, make sure you honk when you catch up. Same thing with stop signs. Give them a little honk to let them know that they aren't as fast as they THINK they are and all their doing is endangering the public and WASTING gas.

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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 10:07 AM
Response to Original message
8. It's Economic Manipulation Again...
When I hear the GOOPies claim that the recession/depression began in 2000 (of course that being Clinton's fault after 7 previous years of economic growth), I remember clearly the games that were being played in early 2000 that were certainly movitvated to destroy the economy.

Some may remember (I sure do), oil was under $1.00 a gallon here (Chicago area) and had been stable for a long time. That changed when the oil companies and the GOOP decided to go after the biggest strong suit Gore had going into the election...the economy. Nothing can move things from prosperity to recession faster than climbing oil prices. It affects everyone and everything we do. A dime rise per gallon is passed along in the price of everything you buy...but don't you dare try to pass that dime along...then you're unpatriotic (unless your an RNC contributor).

Someone (if I'm not mistaken a Repugnican) called a price hike in oil the eqivelent of a tax hike as there are so many taxes attached to it...and the hike in oil also brings in additional revenues lost through the tax givebacks to the rich. Thus, the backdoor way you and I are paying more for this regime's dirty deeds. They all have to go.
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Taeger Donating Member (914 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. Gas Taxes

Someone (if I'm not mistaken a Repugnican) called a price hike in oil the eqivelent of a tax hike as there are so many taxes attached to it.

Gasoline is taxed by the Gallon, not by price. That means the HIGHER the price of Gas, the LOWER The tax is relative to cost.

Thats why it was so STUPID for states (like Indiana) to cut gas taxes during high gas price periods. The suppliers just upped their prices to match and pocketed the money that WOULD HAVE gone into the state coffers.
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arewethereyet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. its winter
OPEC needs a new pair of shoes and your Iraqi oil theory is apparantly baseless.
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jackstraw45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Stealing Iraqi oil
stealing Iraqi oil was NEVER for us. It was NEVER to bring down prices.

It was simply to add more profits to oil company donors to the RNC.

Simple as that.
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. Why is it that...
when prices go down it's good ol' market forces and capitalism at its finest, but when prices go up, someone's out to rob us?

Rising worldwide demand for oil, static production, limited refinery capacity, increased production and extraction costs, odd weather patterns throwing refinery schedules out of whack...

These have nothing to do with it?

The falling dollar probably has less to do with the gas price rise than anything else. Oil is traded in dollars, and the big players all hedge currency anyway.

If everyone wants the price of gas to go down, just drive less. And when you drive, drive something a little smaller than a Hummer or an Explosion. I vaguely remember someone calculating that if we increased overall fuel mileage on passenger cars by 5 or 10 mpg, we could cut out most of our oil imports.

Come to think of it, those of you into guerilla tactics might plaster Hummers, Mercedes S classes, Chevy Suburbans, V-10 doolie pickups and other such fantasy machines with stickers saying "Thanks for helping make me pay twice as much for gas. That's where MY tax break went."

Now, if we could get the idea across that your boss got a huge tax break that allowed him to buy that new gas-guzzler and it affected what you pay to fill up that old clunker, we would show how "trickle-down" works in the real world.

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salinen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. TreasonousBastard
nails it.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. Peak oil....we're in phase one....
enjoy it...
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loudnclear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
13. If gasoline goes much higher, you can kiss Bush "good-bye!"
It will be worth it to pay a few more cents for gasoline to get rid of him.
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wuushew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. If gas goes any higher 90% instead 70% might support the murder of Iraqis
Edited on Sun Feb-15-04 01:19 PM by wuushew
That really bothers me, I am looking to the public and historians to deliever a damnning and strong rejection of the entire Bush doctrine.

From what I see save the activist left, people don't give a shit. They are more offended by the lie to go to war then the actual results of the tradegy.
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maggrwaggr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
15. Hmm, the price of gas was WHAT in Nov. 2000?
This could be a good campaign point. If the price of gas has doubled since Shrub took office?

With all his buddies in the oil business?

oh, but there's no inflation!

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's not peak oil - OPEC just cut "production"...
For 'production', read 'collection'. You can't make this stuff. Once it's gone, so is our advanced lifestyle.

OPEC is trying to manipulate the market.

Besides, for months I've seen oil prices randomly fluctuate from $1.50 to $1.73 and back again. Whenever the price is low is when I fill up. Right now, it's all politics and greed.

By 2010 however, it WILL be because we passed the peak production (collection) period.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Some experts disagree.
From what I have read you won't know that you have hit the peak until about 4 years after it has been reached. I have also read some experts think that we peaked in 2000.
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kalian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Peak oil occured in 2000....
and most theorists believe that we have entered the "first phase"
which is a steady increase of oil/gas prices irregardless of the
"production".
By 2010, we're expected to see the first part of "phase two"...

Let's just say that its too scary to contemplate but if you want a
more detailed discussion, head on over to the Econ forum where this
issue has been talked about for quite some time.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. because they can....and the gov will allow it
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not systems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. Iraq's total output is about 12 billion a year for what we spent...
this year we could have bought all Iraqi oil for the next 15 years.

All the little empire builders should put that in their pipes and smoke it.

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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. "the little empire builders should put that in their pipes and smoke it"
LOL! u rox
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Dissenting_Prole Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-15-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. It's not how much you can buy, it's how much you can control
Edited on Sun Feb-15-04 01:34 PM by Dissenting_Prole
When the US gets into a contest with China over access to the remaining oil, I doubt if money will be the deciding factor.


THE END OF SUBURBIA: Oil Depletion and the Collapse of The American Dream
http://www.brant.net/gvmr/electric.htm
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