Standing during the pledge: can they make you do it?

[Colin Ex]

My best friend got in trouble today for not standing during the pledge. I was kind of curious as to whether or not they can force you to stand by threatening disciplinary action.

I'm sifting through a little information on the matter myself; any of the DU experts know a thing or two about this?

-C

[no_hypocrisy]

1. No, you can't be punished. There was a US Supreme Court case

in the 40's where Amish children refused to salute the flag and they were punished. The holding protects not only the freedom of religion not to demonstrate patriotism but also the freedom of expression to withhold the same. The decision has not been overturned. Do you want the name of the case?

BTW I think Jehovah Witnesses are not permitted by their faith to show allegiance to a secular symbol like a flag.

[Colin Ex]

2. The name of the case would be cool.

If you can remember it off the top of your head, sweet.

Otherwise don't worry about it, I'll be able to get ahold of it.

-C

[Colin Ex]

4. Okay, I got it.

Tons of thanks, guys. You all rock.

-C

[question everything]

3. Thanks, I have often wondered about it

I would go to meetings of my city council that would start with the pledge and then with an invocation. I would just stand still, looking straight ahead. No hand over my heart and no bowing my head during the invocation.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. I stand corrected: it was JW, not Amish. Name of case is

West Virginia Bd of Ed vs Barnette.

http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=!28!7C!29/doc/{@1}/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only?

Either cut & paste link or google "salute-flag" and "Jehovah's Witness"

[Taeger]

5. When I sub teach ...

When I sub teach, I don't stand for the pledge.

Loyalty oaths are inherently un-American. Repeating them EVERY MORNING, is just mind-numbing and stupid. Besides, I'm not sure that 10-year old children have the capability for subversive activities.

The thing that I REALLY hate about the pledge is it turns kids minds OFF at a time when they should be turned ON. If they want to do morning patriotism, there are TONS of writings by various founding fathers and freedom activists that would instill a LOT more patriotism.

[MISSDem]

7. Why would you not want to do this honor?

Am I missing something. That just seems silly and childish.

[matcom]

9. Honor what?

:shrug:

[UnAmericanJoe]

10. Because it is wrong to pledge

allegiance to anything but reason and nature. (IMO)

When my country does right I will stand with them.

[baldguy]

11. In America we have something called the First Amendment.

It grants the right to free speech to people. FORCING a person to swear an oath - either for or against something - violates that right.

[Taeger]

13. My allegiance is to the Constitution !!!!

The flag and the government that claims to represent it is ancillary!!!!

[UnAmericanJoe]

8. I once refused to stand during the national anthem at a baseball game

It was an uncomfortable period.
I could feel hundreds of pairs of hating eyes on me and it kind of scared me.

I don't stand during the pledge or anthem at all anymore. I've gotten used to the staring and derision.

[Ysabel]

12. the first time I did not stand up for the pledge or for the flag...

was on the fourth of july 1969 - i was 8 years old...

aside: a number of years ago my kids then aged approx. 9 and 10 went down to the capitol (all on their own initiative - i wasn't with them - nor did i encourage them to do this, although we had discussed the issue) and protested about the christmas tree lights on the capitol lawn - the idea was that tax payers ought not be paying for religious decorations on public property. things got a bit rowdy, some lights were broken, and my kid (one got away) was arrested and was charged with (actually could never figure out what the charge was) and was listed in a book along with a bunch of other people, as a "political subversive"...that same year that same son refused to sing religious songs at his public school (the school was preparing for a holiday program). the teacher argued with him for several days and then offered him study in a broom closet as an alternative. sure - some kind of alternative. i raised un-holy hell. this incident and several others, led to me pull my kids out of the public school system and do (non-religious) home-schooling with them. Anyway, my point is that children are certainly capable of "political subversiveness"...

editiing to add - oops - i was 10 yrs. old in 1969 - i just had my birthday last week and i'm 45 now - that is if i remember correctly - lol - it's getting easier and easier to forget...