The case against Bush - AWOL or not?

[placton]

Ladies & Gentlemen, this is the case against George Bush:

First, documents agreed to by all parties demonstrate he did not complete his physical requirement and was suspended from flying. Other records demonstrate he did not appear for scheduled activities, either in Alabama or Texas.

Other documents and statements by Bush himself show that the young Texas flyer requested transfer from his regular Texas unit to the 187th Air National Guard Tactical squadron at Dannelly Alabama. Reason: Bush’s wish to work in Alabama on the ultimately unsuccessful U.S. Senate campaign of family friend Winton "Red" Blount.

Second, no witnesses exist who ever saw Bush near a military base during the period in question.

Our first witness: Retired TANG Lt. Colonel Bill Burkett
He: “complained in 1998 that aides to Bush improperly screened Bush's National Guard files”
He: “observed the records in a trash can” the next day

Our second witness, retired TANG Lt. Col. Dennis Adams,
“Burkett told him of the incidents shortly after they happened. "We talked about them several different times," said Adams, who spent 15 years in the Texas Guard and 12 years on active duty in the Army”

Our third witnes, George Conn,
“declined to comment on Burkett's statements. Conn, a former chief warrant officer for the Texas Guard and now a civilian on duty with American forces in Europe, said: "I know LTC Bill Burkett and served with him several years ago in the Texas Army National Guard. I believe him to be honest and forthright. He `calls things like he sees them.' "

Our fourth witness, Bob Mintz, a member of the Air National Guard unit that Bush allegedly served with as a young Guard flyer in 1972
had been told to expect him and (along with others) was on the lookout for him.
“I remember that I heard someone was coming to drill with us from Texas. And it was implied that it was somebody with political influence. I was a young bachelor then. I was looking for somebody to prowl around with.” But, says Mintz, that “somebody” -- better known to the world now as the president of the United States -- never showed up at Dannelly in 1972. Nor in 1973, nor at any time that Mintz, a FedEx pilot now and an Eastern Airlines pilot then, when he was a reserve first lieutenant at Dannelly, can remember.

“And I was looking for him,” repeated Mintz, who said that he assumed that Bush “changed his mind and went somewhere else” to do his substitute drill.

Though some accounts reckon the total personnel component of the 187th as consisting of several hundred, the actual flying squadron – that to which Bush was reassigned – number only “25 to 30 pilots,” Mintz said. “There’s no doubt. I would have heard of him, seen him, whatever.”

Mintz, who at one time was a registered Republican and in recent years has cast votes in presidential elections for independent Ross Perot and Democrat Al Gore, confesses to “a negative reaction” to what he sees as out-and-out dissembling on President Bush’s part. “You don’t do that as an officer, you don’t do that as a pilot, you don’t do it as an important person, and you don’t do it as a citizen. This guy’s got a lot of nerve.”

Our 5th witness, Paul Bishop was also a member of the 187th in the relevant period
“I never saw hide nor hair of Mr. Bush,” confirms Bishop, who now lives in Goldsboro, N.C., is a veteran of Gulf War I and, as a Kalitta pilot, has himself flown frequent supply missions into Iraq and to military facilities at Kuwait. He voted for Bush in 2000 and believes that the Iraq war has served some useful purposes – citing, as the White House does, disarmament actions since pursued by Libyan president Moammar Khadaffi – but he is disgruntled both about aspects of the war and about what he sees as Bush’s lack of truthfulness about his military record.
“I think a commander-in-chief who sends his men off to war ought to be a veteran who has seen the sting of battle,” Bishop says. “In Iraq: we have a bunch of great soldiers, but they are not policemen. I don’t think he was well advised; right now it’s costing us an American life a day. I’m not a peacenik, but what really bothers me is that of the 500 or so that we’ve lost almost 80 of them were reservists. We’ve got an over-extended Guard and reserve”

http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ID=2834&onthefly=1

Our 6th witness, retired Lt. Col. Reese, former commander of the 9921st Air Reserve Squadron (the postal unit):

that Bush didn't show up during those months

"He never did come to my squad," said Bricken, who lives in Montgomery. "He was never at my unit."

Bricken reviewed documents Tuesday showing Bush's transfer request to his squadron and his response to the request. He said he remembered sending approval back for him to serve in the small unit, made up of reserve members who met weekly.

"He was looking for a place to hang his hat, but he never came by," Bricken said.

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/10764971782...

The prosecution rests. Mr. Bush, please present your evidence.

[grasswire]

1. there's another witness now

His commander at the postal unit. He didn't ever show.

See my thread in GD.

[placton]

3. Thanks! I updated with your info!

[Elidor]

4. I love the smell of blood in the water!

After three years (more if you count the Lewinsky debacle), the juicy sound of all this shit hitting the fan, of Bush-fat in the fire, is making me HAPPY! HAPPY! HAPPY! Watching a crippled Bush trying desperately to swim for shore as the sharks are circling is a deeply gratifying experience.

[Karenina]

24. Click here for the perfect cartoon accompaniment

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=34375

[fizzana]

2. The more I read about this, the more I think he wasn't AWOL

It's something else and it's related to some disciplinary issue, possibly drugs, probably including an arrest.

We have evidence of an attempt to destroy his records. We have information blacked out on some forms. We have rumors of doing community service in Houston.

[guitar man]

30. I was wondering the same thing

If there isn't something else to be covered up or swept under the rug.

I was reading something about the possibility of him being "excused" from duty to go work for the campaign. I wonder if him being excused from duty to go do something else,at a time when there were thousands of guys in Vietnam who had no hope of being excused from hell on earth might not play so well in the public eye right now. Especially since he has Guard units in the Iraq meat grinder. I bet their family members would love to see them "excused" so they could come home.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DrWeird]

7. What's it feel like?

To be on a sinking ship?

[DK666]

19. Did I miss a tombstone ?

[DrWeird]

22. Yup.

Basic idea: an article in George magazine four years ago proved George wasn't AWOL. So get a brain, morans.

very, Very Boudelangish.

[placton]

8. Thanks for the GOP take on this!

I am surprised lately by the number of low number posts which seem to always support the GOP.

Always good to have more info, though, even if inaccurate.

[pinto]

9. was that community service he was providing at Operation P.U.L.L?

[seemslikeadream]

10. JUMP JUMP JUMP

before its too late. :nuke:

[librechik]

14. hey, you spelled "moron" right! That's pretty good for a moran

put to rest, yeah, that's a predictable spin. Reminds me of the tape loop Snotty was running yesterday, about the "proof" he was waving around in his hand.

No, PROOF proof, not some Karen Hughes, Dan Bartlett spin. I guess that's too much to ask the Republicans--about ANYTHING! No WMDs, no military records, no surplus--all MIA and they just can't show why except to scream "it wasn't me" at the top of their voices. Ah, the Party Of (ir)Responsibility!

ah well, welcome to DU (better edit out those extra paragraphs) and enjoy your (no doubt brief) stay.

[placton]

17. Ya know, librechik, you may have the theme for the election!

"BUSH military records & service, 3 million jobs, the Bill of Rights--all MIA"

[fob]

16. Did you READ that story? What else do "we" need?

One is an April 23, 1973 order for Bush to report to annual active duty training the following month; the other is an Air National Guard statement of days served by Bush that is torn and undated but contains entries that correspond to the first. Taken together, they appear to establish that Bush reported for duty on nine occasions between November 29, 1972-when he could have been in Alabama-and May 24, 1973. The "torn" document referred to here has since turned up UNtorn and the dates assumed here don't jive with the "torn" version.

The difference between AWOL and DESERTION is "intent to return". I just noticed on my read through of this article that;
Bush spokesperson Dan Bartlett told Georgemag.com: "You take that exam because you are flying, and he was not flying. The paperwork uses the phrase 'suspended from flying,' but had no intention of flying at that time."

So if he was trained as a pilot and had no intention of flying at that time, it is pretty straightforward then that he had no intention of returning to TANG, as he would have had to taken the physical and continued flying, unless of course 1Lt's get to choose when/what they do and not their CO's(which actually appears to be the case, at least for bush*)

And just fo rthe record it's MORANS!

[fob]

6. What about the dental visit in Jan 1973 that the Dentist doesn't

recall bush* being there?

[placton]

11. The poster quoting the George article

merely recites some conclusions. I felt it best to tell the story in actual words and documents. You see, this is called evidence. Opinions are interesting, it's true. But I really feel, like Harry Truman, if we just tell the truth, the GOP will feel like it's hell.

[pinto]

15. "Bush doesn't change policies, he changes facts", from the

"Book on Bush", by Green. Heard the author's quote on tv today, thought it was a telling read.

[pinto]

12. great post, placton. one thing, Busboy gets a day for seeing the dentist,

before he went back to Houston, for whatever reason.......

[placton]

13. dentist does not remember seeing famous Dim Son

but I guess we should give him that day. Amazing that this child of privilege skipped his duty, but still apparently wanted the taxpayers to make sure his teeth were OK!

[thebaghwan]

18. There maybe One big problem to the AWOL Charge!

I am familiar with the above and I do believe that Bush shirked his duty, the whole bit. BUT, I am a paralegal and therefore deal with legal definitions. In order to say Bush was AWOL, we would need the definition of AWOL used at the time (1972-1973)only with any other pertinent executive orders and/or resolutions. The definition would be found in the version of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) in effect at the time.

Now, if the then version was as it is now, I would say that within the strict definition of AWOL, Bush wasn't.

The current version, states that in order for the UCMJ to apply to ANG people, they must be "in Federal service". I have not found a definition of this term, but would speculate it could mean called to active duty and neither ANG units were called to active duty.

So I do not mean to defend the asshole, but his actions may not fall within the legal definition. Of course, if it ever got done to this granularity, he would be toast.

[placton]

20. As a lawyer who litigates

I disagree, except with you last conclusion. The time for nuancing arguments is long past. Who cares what the legal definition is? People know what we mean by AWOL. And, as you indicate, let Bush say things like, "Well, technically I wasn't AWOL, I was just not there all the time I was supposed to be." Kinda like the Clinton sex thing.

I don't mean to attack you, just indicate that we need not worry about defining things who call Clinton a draft dodger - which he, technically, was not.

[mike1963]

21. That is technically correct with respect to the federal UCMJ specifics, bu

but the ANG has equivalent provisions. I posted some excerpts from both the TANG regs and the NGB the other day but it seems to have sunk like a simonized anvil. Will try to reconstruct.

[ggreen29]

27. My Vote: Not UA/AWOL

I've several years experience in active duty, and no experience with the reserves or the ANG. However I've several coworkers who are in the reserves. First to the points you raise.

The UCMJ has had only a few changes since its inception in the 1950s IIRC, and UA/AWOL are almost certainly not affected.

"in Federal service" would probably mean showing up for duty, or being required to show up for duty. When an ANG shows up for mandatory or non-mandatory duty, that is probably considered "in Federal service." If an ANG is required to show up for duty on Tuesday Noon, the "in Federal service" would start Tuesday Noon, whether he/she shows up or not. This is speculation on my part since I never served in the ANG or the reserves, but as a general rule I think it's safe to say that if they are on duty or supposed to be on duty, they are in Federal service.

The salient points for the Bush situation are as follows:

There are 3 elements of proof required for a conviction or finding of guilt under Article 86 (Unauthorized Absence) of the UCMJ:

1. That the subject had an appointed place and time to appear;
2. That the subject was aware of said requirement;
3. That the subject failed to appear.

The reason why Bush's absences are not UAs is that the first element is not met. Reservists often have a very flexible schedule, with few required meetings. If a reservist fails to appear for a drill it is often assumed by the reserve command that he or she had good reason, and that he or she will call and explain, and set up a time to makeup the drill. Depending on the unit, this flex time can be quite flexible. I was talking to a coworker a few weeks ago who commented that a fellow reservist appeared to have retired because he hadn't shown up for 5 months. The fact that this senior SNCO didn't know the status of his reservist was startling to me, but apparently not a big deal to the reserve SNCO.

One of the reasons that the reserves are set up this way is that the reservist's absence often affects the reservist most. When a reservist fails to appear at a drill, he or she:

1. Doesn't get paid;
2. Doesn't receive reserve points toward retirement.

So the command operates under the notion that if the reservist wants to get paid and eventually wants to retire, then he or she will eventually show up. (There are requirements that must be met annually.)

So when a reporter asks "Where was Bush during Dec, Jan & Feb", implying that lack of proof of Bush's presence is equivalent to AWOL, he's demonstrating his ignorance of the situation. In order for Bush to be AWOL during Dec, Jan & Feb (or any other time period), there first must be proof that Bush was REQUIRED to be somewhere during that time AND that Bush knew of that requirement AND that he wasn't there. Since reservists are seldom REQUIRED to be anywhere, they are seldom UA...silly, but true. Therefore mere absence and UNAUTHORIZED absence are not the same thing.

[maggrwaggr]

28. legal definitions don't matter. What matters is the perception

that something is being covered up, that Bush is being less than honest, and he's got something to be embarrassed about.

If the public buys that, he's a done puppy.

[ggreen29]

29. legal definitions don't matter, unless you're using legal terms

The terms UA, AWOL, & Deserter have very specific meanings in the military, meanings that this situation does not appear to meet. The more these terms are misused the less credible the argument becomes.

If you want to say that Bush slacked off the last year or two, or that he just barely met the minimum service requirements, or that he seemed to accomplish nothing but a dental checkup you would be completely accurate.

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. We the jury in the Court of Public Opinion

find the defendent guilty of all charges.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

25. No, he's NOT AWOL

He's a military deserter IN A TIME OF WAR, per the UCMJ: http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/bl85.htm

This is a firing squad offense, in case you weren't aware.

Let justice be done!

[Ripley]

26. From my local paper here in Alabama...

snip

Clifford Singley, the commanding officer of the 187th beginning Sept. 1, 1972, when Bush's equivalent training was to have begun in Alabama, is deceased, Horton said. His predecessor, retired Col. Henry Fillingim Jr., declined comment.

snip

Why wouldn't the old guy comment hmmmmm?

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