Any psychologists in DU???

[historian]

I am 57 yrs old, well travelled and familair with many different places and people but in all my years of life i have NEVER seen anyone who fills me with such loathing as bush. I cant even stand to look at his weasel face with his close set eyes much less hear his voice. I know there are many others like me, fairly intelligent people who become snarling animals when they see him.
I felt like this from the day he stole the elections
Can anyone account for this?

[LeahMira]

1. You are absolutely normal.

n/t

[formernaderite]

27. This comes via my brother...

...I've asked him why I feel like that when watching the Dubya. In essence...it's the "feeling" aspect of this. We are not much different than the republicans who viscerally hated Clinton, regardless if they were wrong or not. We're emotionally rapped up in the political end game, and can not fathom how any part of the country could like this guy. This was identical to the republican attitude towards Clinton. What we must keep in check is our feelings, and not get too carried away whereby we sound hateful.
Anyway, his advice to me was to stop feeling so much, and start thinking logically. I am now able to watch Bush and actually critique him rather than simply wince at the sight of him. "Know they enemy"

[Skittles]

2. ME TOO

what historian said

I have felt this way since BUSH INC ran the f***ing puppet for governor

[Mairead]

3. What sort of accounting are you looking for?

[historian]

4. no accounting

simply some sort of explanation as to why one person can cause such world wide loathing and hatred.

[Mairead]

18. Okay. Well, as Jackpine put it, you seem to have an effective

psychopathy detector. So your system, not knowing any better, is opening your taps to prepare you for 'fight or flight'. This chemical flooding produces high physical arousal which you then interpret as intense loathing.

On another level of 'why' the answer is: because you had monkey ancestors who could spot the predator BEFORE it ate them. :)

[ixion]

5. really, you are not alone

I'm a bit younger than you (39), but I get the same feelings of loathing when confronted with (especially with video) of Bush. There is something about his persona that truly offends me.

I have felt disdain for politicians in the past, but that simply doesn't compare to what I feel when Bush speaks.

He does a great disservice to humanity, IMO.

[onebigbadwulf]

6. We loathe cheaters, liars, and stealers.

This is all natural being a coalition forming primate.

Feel no shame.

[soleft]

7. when you hear things like, he's so likable, you want to have a beer

with him - I just don't get it.

[politick]

8. My ENTIRE family

shares your psychosis. I kid you not. Every one of us. I am able to put the torrid ire away for the few moments it takes to watch him on TV. But my parents and brothers are not able to even do this. My roommate has punched the wall after seeing Bush.

I think there may be a general frustration with the state of reality. You watch his flat eyes and his grimmacing mug, and you think, "This man is president? THIS MAN IS PRESIDENT!" Because you know he's a fraud, a shill, and extremely dangerous. Yet the rest of the country is somehow fooled. Or we're all under some hypnosis. And there's the frustration at not being able to do anything about it.

Shame not. It would be interesting to see what a psychologist thinks. But take heart: we hate looking at him, too.

[Love Bug]

21. "flat eyes" indeed

Thanks for that description--Bush has flat eyes like a shark.

[Jackpine Radical]

9. I'm a licensed, PhD psychologist. and

I think you just have a particularly good intiitive psychopathy detector working for you. I've worked in forensic and correctional psychology for the last 11 years, during which time I've done in-depth psychological evaluations of maybe 2000 criminal offenders, and I get the same feeling about him. Always have. He has very strong psychopathic and narcissistic features.

Google terms like "Robert Hare" and "Psychopathy Checklist-Revised" (PCL-R) to get more information. Also Google "Narcissistic Personality Disorder" if you want more information on what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, neither the psychopathic or narcissistic literature is extensively based on spoiled little "fortunate sons" like Shrubby, so the fit is a little loose.

[Mairead]

12. "the fit is a little loose"

Indeed. I think someone could get quite a useful dissertation out of the unexamined classism in DSM and its implications for social control.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Heh. Heh. Sure seems like the Rockefeller Foundation

has funded a lot more studies of the poor than of the rich.

[depakid]

20. Hare's "Without Conscience"

The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us was a very chilling book and really opened my eyes to the extent of the problem. I would guess that most of us have met or know a sociopath- what Hare calls a sub-clinical psychopath (I prefer using the term "sociopath" to describe most people who present these sort of symptoms and history, because the language is less loaded- most people with the disorder won't go on to become overtly violent criminals, which is what the term psychopath implies).

It became apparent to me early on that Bush exhibits many of the classic features of sociopathy and narcissistic personality disorder. This is more than simply a hunch or feeling, it's also based on objective review of facts and descriptions in the literature (which, as you say, is scarce when it comes to functional and especially successful sociopaths). Then again, the same was true with respect to mood disorders until about 10-15 years ago.

Moreover, I think more a few of today's Republicans are susceptible to this analysis. Think about it and go down the list. It's scary, but it's also illuminating- it's important to know who and what you're dealing with, even if you're like me and can't fathom for a second what it must be like to think and feel that way.

[RedEarth]

10. My wife and I feel the same way

Any time Bush comes on the TV or radio we switch channels. We taped Meet the Press but couldn't bring ourselves to actually watch it. You're not alone in your feelings.

[TXvote]

11. There are many reasonable reasons

A. No humility is his body language. Not an iota.

B. He smirks which usually proceeds pranks such as super wedgies.

C. He contradicts the truth constantly and anyone with a bit of wisdom recognizes a liar when you see you. (voice pattern response= negative )

D. He squints and has close set eyes (provoking inherent distrust)

E. And by now any reasonable human being would be concerned by the threat this man and his adminstration pose to the world. (repeated trauma)

Is there a cure? (FYI: I am not a doctor nor do I claim to be one) I believe we are moving through the stages of grief and close to making piece as a nation with the tragedies that have befallen us. Sounds like you are in Anger, that being one of many phases including shock, inappropriate submission, bargaining, disbelief, self-blame, and finally solution.

Let's hope we come to solution pretty quickly here.

Peace,
Teresa
www.votervirgin.com

[kayell]

13. What I can't account for are all the people

who look at that smirk, hear that sneering, ignorant voice and describe * as God's chosen one, as a charming common man, and some one you can really trust to set the country on the right path.

You seem completely normal.

(on the other hand, I'm a horticulturist, and only allowed to medically diagnose vegetables....Oh, well then... You are turned off by * because he has the charm and morals of a psychopathic rutabaga.)

[onecitizen]

14. I'm an armchair psychotic...........

oh, I'm sorry. You said psychologist! I'm not either actually but I react similar to you when seeing or hearing you know who.

[RedEarth]

16. LOL....that's great, I'll need to remember that line......lol

[enough]

15. The most troubling part

is that you know that many of your neighbors and fellow-citizens like him and think he is a perfectly acceptable president.

It tells you (us) something very frightening about the people you are surrounded by and about the powers that run the country.

When you look at him, you are not only looking at a psychopath, you are looking at a psychopath who has been GIVEN (not earned or taken) the greatest power ever granted to any human being on earth. How could this happen?

It's not just HIM as an individual that's scary.

[smirkymonkey]

33. I think that's what creeps me out even more

- what kind of person must you be to find this loser likeable or charming - or honest??! It is just so abundantly clear to me that he is completely devoid of any positive human attributes, that I can't comprehend how somebody could NOT see it.

Maybe it's denial or something like that, but it's beginning to freak me out that there are so many of this type.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

17. Read: psychological evaluation of W. He's a sadly abused, abusive man.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1033904,00.html

See this psychologist's evaluation of W based on interviews with his friends and family.

It's from the UK's Guardian paper and called:
'So George, How Do You Feel About Your Mom and Dad?"

This article explains why he's so righteously destroying the world.
Barbara Bush is a cold, vicious mother. Alcoholism is hard to manage.

Family dynamics we grow up with form how we deal with the world unless we analyze and overcome hurt and fear. Microcosm=Macrocosm.

See also linguist George Lakoff's writing on the framing of issues with words. He's said that the American schism between Democrats and Republicans represent two different ways of seeing gov't as family:

Repubs sell the image of 'Strong Father,'-Uncompromising, harsh, violent.

Dems sell the image of 'Soft Mother'- Tolerating, nurturing, peaceful.

With TV stirring up a fearful public, they turn towards the 'Strong Father Model.' Adolph Hitler did the same thing. "Furher Knows Best."

[Hekate]

42. The guy scares me

My visceral reaction goes beyond politics and policy, which are enough of a nightmare. For some reason that I can't logically identify the words "wife beater" come to mind when I try to watch him talk. Maybe he's never raised a hand to Laura, but that's not the point when it's my own reaction I'm trying to figure out. The closest I can come to an explanation is that my subconscious is reading his body language and that's what's setting off the alarm bells. The smirk says disrespect, the thrust of the shoulders over the podium says he'll invade my space, the strut and swagger say he's the boss and we better get used to it or face the consequences.

I dunno--it's not my best skill, but I am not a tall person and a couple of times in my life I've felt really crowded by big men who stood close and rather literally "looked down on me" to make a point of their superiority, although I did not feel in physical danger. That feeling plus the danger is cubed just experiencing W on tv.

Anyhow, thank you to all of our resident DU shrinks for affirming my not-craziness.

Hekate

"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." ~Donald Rumsfeld

"But why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many,
what day it's going to happen, and how many this or what do you
suppose? Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my
beautiful mind on something like that?" ~Barbara Bush

"I guess the 'nation's grandma' isn't the grandma of those her son sends into harm's way." ~Hekate

ARLINGTON WEST, SANTA BARBARA CALIF.
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Default.htm
click on the large photo of AW to go here:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Arlington_west_121003.htm
Scroll down the page for all the photos...

[Redleg]

22. Organizational psychologist here- I can only help you if your problems

occur at work!

[DemBones DemBones]

25. Well, then, tell us what you think of

Bush's problems at work! :evilgrin: How would you analyze his management style? His communication style? (Miscommunication style?)

[Redleg]

38. I have- he and his (mis)administration are textbook examples

of numerous decision-making defects and perceptual errors. Don't even get me started on his so-called "leadership." It's all I can do to not rail on Bush while I am discussing these issues with my class. AAARRRGGGHHHH!

[durutti]

23. Psychology... ugh...

I'm skeptical of everything, but especially of psychology. Some good has come out of it, but much of it is pseudoscience.

[maggrwaggr]

34. obviously you've never been to a really good shrink yet

When I was your age, I felt the same way.

Since then I've learned otherwise.

Six or so years ago (when I was in my late 30's) I happened to meet an astounding therapist. This guy was, for lack of a better term, a genius. Seeing him completely changed my life.

It was an astounding experience.

[Redleg]

39. So what constitutes "real science?"

Why shouldn't the study of humans and their societies be an important and respected field of endeavor?

One can find "bad science" in almost every discipline. Psychology and other behavioral and social sciences get a bad rap because most laypeople have their own implicit theories of human behavior and feel they have as good an understanding as those who have worked hard to learn and contribute to a body of knowledge.

[Mairead]

45. "much of it is pseudoscience"

I think you're thinking of classical Freudian psychoanalysis, today hardly a part of psychology at all.

Most psychologists are as much scientists as physicians or biologists are, but since human minds run as interpreters--i.e., most of our behaviors are learned, and can be changed within our own lifespans--the data psychologists must work with is inherently less exact and more changeful. Physicists, chemists, and other so-called 'hard' scientists don't face that problem. No matter how many times you toss a baseball up into the air while standing on Earth, the ball is going to come back down along a path complementary to the one it went up. And at the same rate of acceleration each time. The ball is never going to gradually learn not to come back down, or to glide, or acquire some other novel behavior. Its repertoire, unlike human repertoire, is completely determined by laws we now understand somewhat well. The same is not true of humans, and quantum uncertainty practically guarantees it never will be. But that doesn't mean psychologists don't follow the fundamental principles of science: be honest, be sure your theory is falsifiable (that was Freud's problem, btw), conduct tests, change only one thing at a time, don't mistake interpretations for facts, etc.

[DemBones DemBones]

24. We're all HERE because we feel that way, too,

aren't we? I've never known anyone at DU to express merely a mild discontent with Bush's persona.

Early on, when he first started appearing on television back in 2000, I knew him immediately for the smart-ass frat boy that he is. It's so obvious that he's used to getting his own way and to lying. And I think he's the sort of person (the sociopathic sort!) that only sees others as scenery. He's the only real person in his world. Laura's a bump in the bed, the twins are annoyances who whine (remember he calls the pool at his 'ranch' the 'whining pool' because Barbara and Jenna whined to get it.)

That's still one of my favorite terms for him:

smart-ass frat boy

[Emillereid]

26. What you feel is an appropriate response to reality --

I worry more about people who like Bush -- definitely have authoritarian personalities and probably low self esteem. As I heard a while back -- These days, if you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.

[JMac]

28. True story

I thought I was the only person that felt that way. Last night I thought I was going crazy. After watching many hours of news from Colin Powell lies, to Scott McCellan (sp?), and topped it off with Condi Rice on LKL last night. Larry King kept playing clips of Shrub and his weapons proliferation speech. I finally went over the edge, with a fit of rage, cursing, and (some thoughts that I can't express for fear of a visit from the Secret Service) while watching Shrub speak. So I turned off the tv and took time to let my blood pressure go down. Anyway, as I calmed down, I was glad to have an appointment with a psychologist today. She refered me to try some relaxation exercises and visual imaging. Ahhh I fell better again, lol.

[DoYouEverWonder]

29. IMHO, I think you could classify W

has a classic Megalomaniac:

1 : a mania for great or grandiose performance
2 : a delusional mental disorder that is marked by infantile feelings of personal omnipotence and grandeur




Bush points to journalists asking questions about his dental records on the South Lawn of the White House, February 12, 2004, while on his way to the Marine One helicopter, en route to Andrews Air Force Base.

No matter what the diagnosis turns out to be, this is one sick MFer.

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[Iris]

30. Here's my self-analysis

Bush looks just like my father.

You can probably figure out the rest!


(Although, I should mention, my father would never, ever, ever, ever vote Republican.)

[smirkymonkey]

31. If my seething rage at Monkey Boy was any indication of

my psychological health I would be in lockdown in a psych ward for the rest of my life.

I am also a fairly worldly, peaceful, agreeable type of person but the sight of him, the sound of his voice or even the mention of his name make me apoplectic. It's like I just short-circuit or something - I can't think, talk or focus. My rage toward that f**Ktard is so all consuming, I am shocked by the intensity of feeling. :grr:

[ms_splash]

32. Did you feel the same way about Reagan?

I was just a little too young, but he did generally piss me off. I believe he made my parents sick to their stomach. Now we are all sickened by Bush II.

Unfortunately, read my sig line. (well, maybe not the world, but certainly a whole bunch of yahoos in America).

[wellstone_democrat]

36. yes, but oddly less hysterically

I hated him, didn't see or hear him if I could help it but not as visceral a reaction as I have from minute one (which unfortunately was a live campaign appearance). I cannot listen to or watch Bush*. I'm stunned by that and a little frightened at the intensity of it all. But, there it is.

Honestly, even before his bullshit hit the high tide mark during the campaign I wondered if he was proof that there was "evil" and that some people embraced it.

[Th1onein]

35. BS Psychology here

You're normal. I'll send you a bill later....lol

[Ladyhawk]

37. Yes, I have visceral near-hatred of the man.

My family loves him. It makes me sick to my stomach.

[TrogL]

40. I've spent a lot of time in therapy

being taught how to read body language etc. I'm an Aspie and I have to learn it the hard way.

Bush's deameanor screams LIAR LIAR LIAR. I've been taught that when confronted with anybody behaving like that and looking like that I should put my hand on my wallet and run like hell.

[SoCalDem]

41. I think it's because we are "aware" of what's happening

and so many are not paying attention.. It's like we are watching two cars heading straight for each other.. we're waving our arms and yelling, and we know what will happen..but no one sees us or hears us..

It's the helpless feeling, and the fact that WE feel let down by all the things we learned as a kid..

Play fair
Share
Be nice
Tell the truth
The truth will out
We can trust our leaders
If you read it in the paper, it's been researched and thought out


Our core values were shaken when we watched that fiasco of an election, and the "good guys" just rolled over.. It was disbelief...disappointment.. anger..fright...and those were directed three ways.. Bush & his guys... my fellow citizens who did not even care..and inward, because at that moment we knew that we really could not trust anyone..

and watching him steamroll over us and everyone else for three years has not really awakened many people..

[RebelOne]

43. Hey, I feel the same way.

Everytime I see him on TV, I spew obscenities.

[carolinayellowdog]

44. The face of evil

Hey,

Over a year ago, after hearing my mother say that both she and her best friend were unable to bear the sight of *'s face or the sound of his voice, I started a thread here about the phenomenon. At least 50 DUers chimed in back then. I don't rage and curse at the sight or sound of him. Unlike many of you, I don't hate him. Horrified incredulity best describes the feeling. For six months after the selection I refused to watch TV at all, so traumatized by what had occurred.

Although I'd normally think in psychological terms about this issue, and am not a religious believer, theological language is required to get at the heart of the phenomenon we're discussing. The visceral horror we experience at the sight and sound of this man is not about his individual characteristics, but the evil force he represents and serves. M. Scott Peck's book People of the Lie argues that some people transcend any psychological category and are downright evil. The main four criteria he provides are that the person is destructive, lies without remorse, engages in scapegoating, and denies all personal responsibility for his actions. Killing ten thousand Iraqis in retaliation for three thousand Americans killed by Saudis is a clearcut example of destructive scapegoating. And you know he will never ever accept any responsibility for having done so on the basis of a pack of lies. Or for the loss of a million jobs, or for the greatest deficit in American history. His endless lies are endlessly documented.

This is an evil man who has done an immense amount of harm in three years and can be counted on to continue in the same vein until stopped.

CYD