Hatred between Dems & Repugs;

[smirkymonkey]

Liberals & Conservatives; the Devout & the Secular, et. al. Obviously, I am not immune to this. What surprises me is how strong it is in me and how I can be reasonable over almost any subject but political orientation.

What are your opinions on why this hatred seems so strong lately? (steadily growing over the last decade). At first it seemed to be mainly repugs hating dems, but now the repugs are out of control - violent even, and it seems like we are catching up.

Although I agree that we need to be more agressive as a party, I also feel that no good can come out of such strong antipathy.

Why do you think this is? (besides this trainwreck of an admin). Not just the hatred toward administrations that you oppose, but people hating each other over their political views.

[Loonman]

1. Payback for Clinton

At least for me.

A good freep is a defeated freep.

[Catherine Vincent]

8. That's how I feel.

The way repuglicans treated former President Clinton is what persuaded me to dislike their party. Had they not been so hateful and vicious I more than likely would still be an independent.

[denverbill]

9. Ditto. I had no hatred for them until the 8 year Clinton bash fest.

I wasn't even much of a Clinton fan. But to listen to the hate-radio talk jocks and read freeper posts, Clinton was the most evil person since Adolph Hitler, guilty of murder, child molesting, treason, bribery, and virtually every other crime in the book.

I'm tired of being called a commie because I believe in national health care like every other first world country has. I'm tired of being told that shipping jobs overseas is good for America. I'm tired of being called a traitor for being against a war that most of the world opposed on a country which had never attacked us and did not threaten us.

[brainwashed_youth]

2. good question

this whole hatred seems like it started when we all found out about Clinton's blowjob, but I think the breaking point for this bitter hatred was the 2000 election. After that disgrace, dems and repubs just couldn't seem to get along. i don't think it will stop till Bu*h is out of office. but that's just my opinion.



p.s. Iraq also made a hostile relationship even more hostile

[mmm]

11. Discovering Clinton's blow job was the RESULT of the hatred

Repukes feel for the world, not the cause of it:
Repuke Congresspeople wasted all of their energy
on the Clinton witch hunt and other hate-filled agendas.
I first noticed the phenomenon- whereby all Repukes spew vitriolic hatred in perfect lock-step -when Clinton took office.
It is indeed a powerful hatred and it is not bound to get
any better. Dems must step up and take this country back by whatever means necessary. Now.

[KansDem]

35. I agree...

When the GOP took Congress in 1994, I just figured what they did was plain politics, albeit to an extreme. I bought into the Media Whore mantra that the American people wanted divided government. However, what did it for me was the 2000s/Election. When you thumb your nose at half a million Americans, then you have stepped over the line of "just politics." There was ONLY one note of concern from a Republican about the election that I was able to find on the internet (and I was on the internet a lot following that debacle). The writer expressed regret that his party seized the White House in such a contentious manner. But apparently, all other Repubs approved, or at least have remained silent.

I will NEVER forgive or forget what the GOP and Media has done to this country!!!
:grr: x 7,000,000,000,000

[AffirmativeReaction]

51. Statistically insignificant

Just a couple of points. First, while i did not care for the outcome of the 2000 election, the Constitution states that the candidate who garners the most electoral votes is the winner. This is to ensure that 85% (land mass) of the country is not ignored in an election season. If it was strictly popular votes, candidates would simply campaign in major cities, thereby "thumbing their noses" at many more than 500,000 citizens.

Second, there were 101,452,285 votes cast in the 200 general election. http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/

Al Gore received 50,996,116 votes. George Bush received 50,456,169 votes. The difference is 539,947 votes. This equates to 0.5322% of the total votes cast. As anyone who has taken a course in statistics can tell you, this total is statistically insignificant and could be attributed to random error in such a large sample. While there are plenty of shameful things this administration has done, the mathematics of the election does not get me riled.

[gander2112]

59. If we were sampling it would be...

But the 101 million-odd votes is a total sample. When one is talking about a complete set, and not a sample of the population as an indication, there is no "margin of error". Thus, he lost the popular vote, whether it was 1 vote, 500,000 votes or 50,000,000 votes.

Geoff

[AffirmativeReaction]

61. We both goofed

"But the 101 million-odd votes is a total sample."

Actually, it's the population. But the fact remains that the relatively miniscule difference can be attributed to random error. There was no clear-cut popular vote winner.

[KansDem]

62. Just a couple of facts...

I use this source, not CNN, for information:

World Almanac and Book of Facts, 2004
US population: 281,321,906
Election results:
Gore: 51,003,894
Bush: 50,459,211

So actually, it is 544,683 voters who are “statistically insignificant.” By referring to “thumbing their noses,” the Bushistas have been running this country as if they had a mandate. Bush has been catering, and continues to do so, to the minority who voted for him. And he’s done this in an arrogant, selfish, bullying manner.

And where were you during the Florida vote count? Don’t you remember these stories:

Texas Gov. George W. Bush appears to have sealed his claim to the White House through a premeditated mob action that influenced the Dade County decision to halt a crucial recount.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/112400a.html
“The Mob” identified:

1. Tom Pyle, policy analyst, office of House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.).
2. Garry Malphrus, majority chief counsel and staff director, House Judiciary subcommittee on criminal justice.
3. Rory Cooper, political division staff member at the National Republican Congressional Committee.
4. Kevin Smith, former House Republican conference analyst and more recently of Voter.com.
5. Steven Brophy, former aide to Sen. Fred D. Thompson (R-Tenn.), now working at the consulting firm KPMG.
6. Matt Schlapp, former chief of staff for Rep. Todd Tiahrt (R-Kan.), now on the Bush campaign staff in Austin.
7. Roger Morse, aide to Rep. Van Hilleary (R-Tenn.).
8. Duane Gibson, aide to Chairman Don Young (R-Alaska) of the House Resources Committee.
9. Chuck Royal, legislative assistant to Rep. Jim DeMint (R-S.C.).
10. Layna McConkey, former legislative assistant to former Rep. Jim Ross Lightfoot (R-Iowa), now at Steelman Health Strategies. --Washington Post
http://www.bushwatch.com/bushdec1.htm

How about the decision to not count all the votes:

Gore requested a hand recount of some 14,000 disputed ballots from South Florida. Bush's battery of lawyers said the Florida Legislature made no provisions for manual recounts, especially since there has been no allegation of voting equipment failure. Also involved in the case were lawyers for voters and for Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris, who has declared Bush the winner by 537 votes.
Earlier Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court ordered the Florida Supreme Court to take another look at a vote recount decision that benefited Gore. But Republicans say they're not celebrating. "We don't want to jump to any conclusions," a Bush campaign official told CNN.

http://www.sweetliberty.org/issues/election2k/sanders.htm

How about no time for the recount:

Bush wins after 36-day legal fight;
Florida recount halted by U.S. Supreme Court

http://www.indystar.com/library/factfiles/gov/politics/election2000/results.html

I GUARANTEE you that if a political party, any party, sends in mobs to break up legal recounts, in essence shutting them down, while pursuing a legal strategy that eats of time for said recount, that party WILL win.

This only scratches the surface. Forget CNN and start looking on your own. The information is there and it is so much more rewarding when you find it for yourself.

[lisarenat]

56. I have never understood how Gore could have won.

From what I remember during all that, Gore did not win how would it have been right for Gore to have been President. I am all for a democrate in the office. I just did not see where it could have been any different then the way it turned out. Gore kept carring it out a lot further than I thought he should have.

[KansDem]

63. See post #62...(eom)

[chemenger]

37. I seriously doubt

that the hatefest between the Democrats and Republicans will end once Bush & company are outed. This fire was started even before Clinton took office but was fueled by the Repubs for the 8 years he was in office. Then their blatant actions in stealing the presidency in 2000 was like throwing gasoline on the fire. Even though the "Great Uniter" only exacerbated this situation, you also have the likes of Limpballs, Man Coulter, and a frightening number of like-minded conservative right-wing extremists.

THIS SITIATION WILL NEVER GET BETTER. In fact, I would predict that it may eventually lead to violent confrontations. It is definitely spiraling out of control and reason.

[EstimatedProphet]

3. It's the neo-con element

40 years ago there wasn't the hatred between the parties, because both parties operated together. It's been the rise of the neo-cons that are driving all the anger. Their arguments are patent lies much of the time, they have an extreme arrogant attitude, they're self-absorbed and convinced that everything they say is the absolute truth simply because they say it, they're selfish, piggish and mean. In short, they are bullies.
I don't hate traditional Republicans. I certainly understand (but don't agree with) the desire to limit taxes and reduce government spending. Neo-cons only give those ideas lip service though, and then try to make anyone who doesn't think we should rule the world out to be a coward and a traitor. The neo-cons don't act like a seperate party; they act like conquerers. Pretty simply really, why Democrats are mad, after having to put up with that kind of treatment.

[Nadienne]

32. 40 years ago they hated Commies

and Commie sympathizers. I'm not sure why...

The radical Conservatives define themselves by their hate. They use the power and influence that is the reward of their general selfishness to frame the issues to their advantage. I still don't understand how anyone can think of them as "moral".

Personally, I don't hate them. They are misguided and fearful (though they will deny this vehemently). I hate the destruction they cause.

[zanana]

38. Things haven't changed in 40 years.

This is the same kind of hatred that was aimed at liberals during the Vietnam era. Just substitute "Socialist" for "Communist" and you have the conservative argument. The language has changed so little, and the flag is once again the captive of the Republicans. It's discouraging to realize how little progress has been made.

[Nadienne]

43. They play on our fears.

They give us our fears, and they exploit them. Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to Conservatism.

[John BigBootay]

58. Come on... Let's not equate Dems with Communists...

First of all- republicans don't hate Dems the same way they hate Communists. Dems do not have a verified track record of killing tens of millions of citizens, denying rights, denying food and essentials for survival to the general populace.

Let's get some things straight: Dems aren't communists and reps aren't Nazis. End of story.

However, I am distrubed at the venom both sides now freely revel in. We are all on the same team here-- when will we start acting like it?

[mac2]

4. Hate over political issues

Where is that uniter President? This President gives no voice to the other minority party of more than 50%...of-course we're angry. We are not heard and even pushed aside as unimportant. We are not a minority. Our tax dollars and futures ruined...our children dead on the desert sands for oil and a PNAC agenda...by a few Neo Cons.

Even our Constitution and Bill of Rights ignored...votes stolen, lied to for war, profiterring, etc. Bush is one of the worst leaders in history. He is right up there with the other tyrants and fascists.

Angry that our country is about to disappear...along with our rights and way of life. I think so!!!

[rockymountaindem]

5. That's a good question.

Recently I have been thinking about breaking off my relationships with some good friends of mine because of their conservaitve views. It hurts me greatly to think that politics are pulling us apart. I still like them very much, but I can't seem to get past their politics lately.

[smirkymonkey]

15. I know what you mean, I just find myself

holding my republican friends and acquaintances in so much contempt lately. I feel like they are one of 3 things - hateful, greedy or selfish - traits belonging to the kind of company I don't wish to keep.

It's more than that though, not only do I not want to be around them, I want to beat them senseless!!

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

33. I have people that I love and care about that are Republicans and

we used to pretty much agree on all the basics. I thought that they believed in Democracy, at least. But in the past several years, they have turned so hateful toward democrats, they made it clear that they had no respect for my husband's and my opinions or beliefs. They just sneered and basically came out and said we were losers. The subtext is that we identify with the party of the "inferior" type people, of course.

Then after the election, I started taking a good long look at them and THEIR morals after they have acted so smug and superior all that time. I noticed that my husband and I are basically quiet, mind-our-business type of people that save our money and don't live in debt and don't go around judging other people and believe in equality.

They are status-conscious, go into debt, act superior, don't give to charity, bad mouthing, racist and so on. They are cynical and annihilistic. The would rather see their beloved Republicans win than anything, they don't care about people dying or getting horribly wounded. They don't care about democracy. They don't want to know the truth. When we protested the war, they sneered and said it was just "communists" that were doing that. What a stupid statement!

At one time I would have been hurt by this, but now I just despise everything they stand for, even though I still like them as people when we aren't discussing politics. I just think of them as spoiled, ignorant children. I have stated my opinions to them and they used to just sneer and laugh, but now they don't bring up politics. I think they will vote for Bush, but they don't act all braggardly and proud about it anymore, so hopefully the environment will become inhospitable for people like them soon, as it did back in the sixties and seventies. They just got all excited in the past several years because they thought they were "winning" something. Now I think they are realizing deep down that EVERYONE is losing at the expense of Bush.

On edit: I forgot to mention the most glaring Republican trait of all that has become apparent: MASSIVE HYPOCRICY!

[noonwitch]

6. The GOP still wants revenge for Watergate/Nixon, among other things.

They've never forgiven the democrats for driving Nixon out of office. They also are still holding a grudge over the Iran/Contra investigation into the treasonous acts of their saint Reagan. They feel like they are entitled to power and how dare some hick like Clinton beat their precious "Wimp" "Yalie" GHW Bush. (I didn't call him a yalie and wimp, Reagan did in 1980)

Religious conservatives have a deeper agenda than revenge, they want to impose their beliefs on everybody else and the whole world.

[SharonAnn]

60. Revenge on us because they were guilty? Sheeesh!

Why not revenge on their established "leaders" who betrayed them?

[Bandit]

7. Rush Limbaugh

:shrug:

[tnlefty]

10. Nixon, the Iran-Contra gang, the S&L fiasco while screeching about

being the party of honesty, integrity, family values, etc. just for starters.

[Asteroid]

14. Compassionate Coservatives

And the lies they spread, tomorrow on Sally.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

12. I think the GOP started it, and we Dems are in "backlash" mode

I think the outright hatred of "liberals" - which seems to have started with Reagans crap about "(black) welfare queens driving around in Cadillacs" and really ramped up under Gingrich and Rush - has finally caused a massive backlash. I certainly feel that way.

[blurp]

13. You fear being controlled and so do they

The federal government is more powerful than ever. The stakes are much higher than in the past.

Now suppose power were distributed more to the local level. Would you really care that much about what the Repubs were doing in some small town somewhere? Would they care as much about what you were doing?

If there is some problem to be solved, we're trying to find a single solution for everyone. There is none. There are all kinds of people and they live in all sorts of different ways and value different things. By making everything a national issue, we force different kinds of people into conflict.

[Bombero1956]

17. I've been hating for a long time then

I've hated repugs since Reagan was prez. 8 years of Reagan 4 yars of bush 1 and 3 1/2 of bush II.

[CaptainClark23]

16. Fear - Fuel for the Machine

We're all scared, 'them' and 'us'. While that fear might manifest differently, the bottom line is the same. We all know we're pretty fucked, and we're looking for simplistic solutions.
The simplest is to blame it on 'them', whoever they may be.

And the continuing conflicts distract attention away from the folks pulling the strings.

[TNOE]

18. It seems much worse to me....

I do not ever remember such hatefulness, spite and venom spewing. I think * has brought out the worst in people - he and Rove and the gang encourage the sound bites, "anti-war", "un-patriotic", traitor, which has morphed into commie liberal, american haters, etc.

* just tapped into the known dark side he knew existed in many. That's why it had to be brown colored Arabs to be blamed... start the hate and division. It's intentional.

[Jose Diablo]

46. The 'dark side' is within us all

All of us have within ourselves part of the 'dark side'. We can choose what to believe and how to act.

"There will be peace in the world when there is peace within the nations. There will be peace in the nations when there is peace within the people." I forget where I heard this, it did not originate with me.

In the end, peace in the world is a result of peace within each person.

It is up to us. Hate is not 'out there'.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Because the Republicans aren't conservative...

They are supporting the agenda of a fascist corporate crook not the agenda of a conservative. I really wish that, even though I disagree with the president, I could at least watch the lighting of the National Christmas Tree Ceremony without being sick to my stomach thinking about everything wrong that he has done.

[Deja Q]

20. They started and kept up the hate; both in words and action

What should we do, bend over backwards and allow them to do their worst? x(

Let's beat 'em at their own game. We have no other choice. Remember, their idea of "bipartisanship" is for the Dems and Repukes to come together on something, and then ask the Dem to sit back and do nothing.

[Az]

21. It is reflective of a larger social discord

Ours is a Post Modern society (whether that is a good thing is relative). That is in order for our diverse society to get along with itself we have had to insist that no one group is right and that all deserve a say in the process.

A bit of understanding of history helps here. For centuries the authoratative Churches of Europe held absolute power. They decided who lived and who died. Entire nations were of one belief. When nations colided it was often along these lines.

Eventually economic pressures brought about mingling of the various beliefs. Nations became more diverse. The churches still maintained that they were the only voice of truth. But their grip was sliding. Eventually the people rose up and demanded more rights. The Magna Carta and later the Constitution were the results of the Age of Reason. These Documents seperated the churches from the absolute control they once had.

As the Humanist revolution took hold many churches struggled to reinstate their claim to absolute power but the people stood strong. Over time the peaces of Post Modern sensibility permeated most of society.

Post Modernism has a particular weak point. It cannot support any one path even if it is right. It can only defend. It cannot progress. Therefore it has held society in place while the old Church institutions struggled to reinstate their claims to absoltue truth.

Over time the Churches have continued to pump the notion that their morality is the only true morality into the people. Occaisional clashes with Post Modern society were rebuffed. But eventually the forces trying to force their views found ways to game the system. If they caste themself as the oppressed minority they could turn Post Modern methologies around. Thus they found their way back onto the stage.

Since then this struggle between relative morality and absolute morality has escalated. On the right the Republicans have sided with a very organized religious coalition determined to place their absoltue beliefs above everyone elses. On the left the Democrats have sided with a loose collection of groups fighting for principles based on humanity.

[Nadienne]

34. Wow, how insightful

Thanks, Az. I really like how you wrote that.

[lisarenat]

57. Best post I read today! I can go along with that

[tom_paine]

22. The Busheviks have been using Nazi-style propaganda to program the stooges

They have also constructed a Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media a la the Nazis and Soviets to launder any lie they wish or obfuscate any truth they wish.

As a result, a growing indigestible mass of Party-Loyal Automatons, as unAmerican as Chinese Communists, now infests this nation. They are irrevocably programmed because they have been train to ignroe any information that isn't Party-approved. (This is addition to being trained to receive their "opinions" wholesale from the Party-Loyal Right-Wing Sub-Media without question or analysis...the opposite of their treatemnt of non-Party-Approved Sources, which are dismissed out of hand even if they assert 1 + 1 = 2...Limbaugh and O'Reilly say it's 3, though)

Further, they are also programmed like their spiritual antecedents, the Nazis to have a deep hatred of their foes, whom they are encouraged to think of as subhuman.

As this bloc of Brownshirts has swelled, as their propganda and memes have slopped over into a weakened, apathetic and mostly defensless public, it has become more prevalent.

And more successful, as all nazi Propaganda does unless vigorously challeneged. It is also why Nazis and Bushviks share a similar loathing for liberals and intellectuals, who function as society's lie detectors.

Eventually, and especially given that the Nazi Model exists for us to study and remember, more and more people are waking to what they are up against. Many people like myself, who could have lived our entire lives without becoming involved in campaign politics, have finally roused.

How can you not hate Nazis (even if they ARE "kinder and gentler" for the moment) once you realize what they are?

So, of course many Free Americans who had nothing against Republicans other than some philosophical disagreements, simply LOATHE the Totalitarian Busheviks.

Some of it is loathing these unAmerican scum who are now a hair's breadth away from killing the American Experiment forever. Some of it is just being fed up with turning the other cheek and rising above people who would Gulag or kill us if they thought they could get away with it. We all saw how well that worked for the German Jews.

If the Imperials are not stopped, that day may yet arrive.

[9215]

Excellent post!

:thumbsup:

[x-g.o.p.er]

31. As usual, Tom, great post

But if I may add the perspective that many on the right feel that the media is the left's toady, and will spout anything that the Democratic party wants them to. The media is reviled by both left and right.

[RandomKoolzip]

39. But how is that possible?

How is it possible that these gigantic multi-national media corporations would ever willingly support the spreading of a message that advocates their own destruction, i.e the "liberal" agenda? How do they NOT see the contradiction there? If the media is liberal, how come we NEVER hear any of the DU talking points on the evening news? How come I've never heard the words "living wage" or "LIHOP" on Tom Brokaw's watch?

How would these conservatives explain Michael Powell's heading the FCC while his high-placed repub father gives the Bush Administration its daily shoeshine and a blowjob? And how would thay explain GE owning NBC and producing all sorts of defense industry products at the same time?

The media is a wholly corporate creature, while that left supports an anti-corporate mindset. So somebody PLEEEEASE tell me HOW IN THE FUCKING WOOOORRRLD the media could be "the left's toady?!"

[tom_paine]

48. You are right. As usual there is a grain of truth at the center of that

Bushevik Pravda Point wrapped in lies (makes it easier to swallow, of course).

It is true that, for a long time, there was a majority of reporter who were Liberals. What about the managers and editors who determine what those reporters get to write...unknown. It is further interetsting that the poll the Busheviks are so fond of citing regarding the media's "liberal leanings" is not only grotesquely outdated (1984 or so)but the sample selection method was skewed towards giving small-town newspaper reporters entirely too huge a weight.

So yes, that poll shows in 1984, a majority of newspaper reporters, with uninfluential small-town papers being given a weight well beyond their influence, identified themselves as Democrats.

Welcome to the Bushevik World of Pravda...careful of the distorting mirrors

But, journalism was, to a certain degree, a self-regulating mechanism with strict ethics codes which are no longer adhered to, regarding fabrication, allegation, innuendo, and injecting opinion into "news" pieces.

They weren't perfect, but they tried hard to be objective. They had RULES and FACT-CHECKERS which is something almost unheard of along the length and breadth of the Party-Loyal Bushevik Sub-Media.

See David Brock's book I recommend below, also see this article which outlines the rare Bushevik propagandist TELLING THE TRUTH about what they do and what they are about (I'll bet his Bushevik editor rapped his knuckles about admitting that).

http://www.tompaine.com/feature2.cfm/ID/7928

In a nutshell, it comes down to this: the Mainstream media has objectivity rules and guidelines and fact-checkers and often attacks Democrats or parrots Republican attacks for them... the Bushevik Sub-Media has NONE of these things (perhaps Faux "News" has a token fact-checking staff that scan the lies and twisted half-truths for legally actionable items) and NEVER CEASES to attack Democrats while NEVER attacking the Busheviks on ANYTHING!

And anyone who thinks today (let alone years ago) that the media will print whatever the Democrats want is detached from reality. Is THAT why they waited 4 years to report on or discuss at length Bush's AWOL? Why they didn't give his Harken Stock Scandal one-hundredth of the attention the less-serious Whitewater got? The list goes on and on...

Most improrantanly, how does that explain why the media SAVAGED Gore while giving Emperor Bunnypants* a free pass from everything from his lying about his arrest records "Have you been in any trouble with the law recently." "Not since 1968, Tim." or his lying much worse than Gore (who mixed up who he went down to Texas with, but he DID go to Texas after that flood) during the First Debate, where Bush said, "I signed a Patients' Bill of Right in Texas while I was governor."

(no Bush you didn't you fucking LIAR, the record shows you DIDN'T sign it when it came before you THREE TIMES, then it passed WITHOUT YOU SIGNATURE!)

Now let's compare scandals:

Watergate (real attempt to subvert the process and steal elections, dirty tricks squads, bribery, misuse of government agencies, slush funds,break-ins, etc.)

Iran-Contra (serious violation of the Constitution. Congress shut off Contra funding because the nun-raping and murder of innocents started trickling back, Bush and his boys set up Ollie North in the basement to deal weapons (which is proved) and drugs (which isn't, though there are certainly some things worth investigating which strangely enough never were) to MIDEAST TERRORISTS in exchange for "hostages" (yeah, right, funny how the veracity of THAT statement was never checked on by the "liberal media", they just repeated it over and over and OVER for the Bushes...what, other than illegal monies to be funneled to the Contras, were they trading those arms for,exactly?)

Whitewater (Clintons exonerated)
Travelgate (exonerated)
Filegate (exonerated)
The Lewinsky Scandal (yes, Clinton got a BJ, what was wrong about it was that it happened at the office, his perjury is less criminal by far than the collusion and conspiracy the Busheviks entered into to maneuver him into the Perjury Trap, IMHO)

The media didn't used to be reviled by the Left. Oh, not for the Pravda the Busheviks spout, but for their dedication to fairness, which is a Liberal characteristic which they sometimes take too far, also (another topic for after the crisi is over and things return to "safe normal" if that ever comes around again). Of course it IS impossible for someone to fully excise their own views from reportage. BUT the difference is a series of rules/journalistsic ethics/fact checking and TRYING to get it right versus trying to construct the best Pravda to serve your Party regadless of the facts.

By the way x-g.o.p.er (you know your monniker is incredibly hard to type in...gotta use the copy/paste function), here is a book (by one of the main Vast Right-Wing Conpsiracists prior to his conscience getting the best of him) books about what the Busheviks were up to while most of us "slept" through the 80s and 90s:

"Blinded by the Right" by David Brock

And another from the outisde about the (in my opinion) RICO-violating conspiracies set up to assualt the Clintons and the Constitution (no, I don't believe the Clinton's are perfectly moral and pure, as your Bushevik co-workers think of their Emperor):

"The Hunting of the President" by Conason & Lyons

I have avoided referring you to anti-Bush opinion like "Dude Where's My Country" or "Lies & the Lying Liars Who Tell Them" because, even though I am bitterly (because I would rather NEITHER side had gone down this road) pleased that the Left is slowly creating their own counterstructures to the Bushveik Pravda Machine, you have already known that sort of thing from the other side and perhaps you'd like to take a break.

I must confess I like it alot and that, unlike never before, I WANT to hear smears (truthful ones, unlike the Busheviks) against the Imperials now. My civility-loving days are over. I guess being indirectly called an unpatriotic traitor enough times makes you want to hit back, eh?

(I know you are starting to understand exactly what I mean)

[suegeo]

64. Another thing re: Iran Contra

I also heard that in addition to drug and arms running, the CIA was also making money by harvesting organs (from orphaned children they killed and from the rebels they were torturing).

No wonder Ollie North wanted to turn some old military bases into concentration camps.

[smirkymonkey]

23. A lot of interesting perspectives....

I think we have just been taking a beating for so long, and trying to take the high road through all of it - meanwhile repug hatred has become more and more virulent. It's only natural that we have reached our breaking point.

I think at the source of it all is fear. We are a nation living in fear and looking for someone or something to take it out on. I think this administration has played those fears to the hilt and if we don't get them out of office this November, I truly believe that this country is headed for disaster, maybe even total collapse.

Does anyone else feel that the tension is almost palpable these days?

[EstimatedProphet]

25. Yes, I feel the same way

Every day I wonder if I'm in a parallel universe. I keep seeing "opinions" from people that are so far off the wall, I wonder how anyone with any kind of critical thinking process could believe them. Far too often I find myself wondering what I will do if * gets back in in November-should I try to emigrate?
If * gets back in, with a Republican congress and SCOTUS, the Repugs will try to bring back the fight to overturn the 2-term limit on the presidency. That will be order #1. They almost did it under Reagan, but didn't make it because of congress. If they are successful, they could keep * in for life. Next comes the draft, even more outsourcing, even higher tax burdens on the middle and lower classes, and we'll end up a third world state in short order.
How can people NOT see where this is leading?

[mike1963]

24. It transcends normal politics. It is a basic rift between philosophies

that is ironically (in the proper sense of the word) and improperly couched as "right vs. wrong"

But in fact, now the "right" is wrong and the "left" is right (as in correct.)

According to the so-called "conservatives" nowadays, rights are actually privileges, discrimination is justified, plutocracy is democracy, polluted air and water are clean, freedom is contingent, mendacity is acceptable if it supports the far-right agenda but impeachable if it comes from the other side.

Whoever made up the list of the Seven Deadly Sins missed a couple: apathy and stupidity. Pogo had it right ...when was that, 40 years ago?

[tom_paine]

55. "mendacity is acceptable if supportng the far-right agenda but impeachable

if it comes from the other side."

By God, you nailed it there Mike!

And that is the most dangerous thing to the American Experiment. The Orwellian double-standard and the vast numbers of people throwing their ethics away in favor of it.

[Skittles]

26. because republicans used to be just f***ing annoying

NOW THEY ARE RUINING OUR LIVES AND TRASHING THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY. DAMN STRAIGHT I F***ING HATE THEM.

[drdigi420]

27. repubs hate because they blame others for their shortcomings

'its the blacks fault'
'its the jews fault'
'its the mexicans fault'
'its the homosexuals fault'

long answer:
republicans have a hard time taking responsibility for their own actions, hence their need for a nanny state to attempt to keep them from using prostitutes, recreational drugs (other than alcohol), gambling, or having sex
since they blame others for their perceived lack of success in their lives, they hate the people they feel are responsible for their own unhappiness

short answer:
republicans are spoiled little bitches

[drdigi420]

28. i hate republicans

because i have a very low tolerance for stupidity

[9215]

29. Hate is too powerful

a term. I have seen Repugs who "saw the light" moderate their stance and I realize I dont' hate them personally only despise their ignorance.

The Repugs are the ones who foster hatred as Tom Paine points out above. They manipulate the emotions of their flock and systematically keep them in the dark about the facts.

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[EV1Ltimm]

36. Republicans set par for the course...

when they started hating the PEOPLE not just their POLITICS.

"I hate clinton" as opposed to "I hate clinton's policies"
"I hate liberals" as opposed to "I hate liberalism"

And then the crazies got computers in the mid-90's, so they could start composing their own crazy-ass diatribe and email it to every person in existence. The crazy-ass population probably increased 10-fold because of crazies with good grammar and a smart-ass attitude.

[Brewman_Jax]

40. Same here...

The way the republicans think brings to mind the line from Animal Farm, "all animals are equal, some are more equal than others."

The Republicans can't win on the public issues, so they have to use the private/wedge issues for political gain. They say, We'll legislate morality to keep "those" people in line and keep you "good" people safe.

It's always easy to bully the poor and marginalized. The Republicans rail against welfare cheats, but let corporate insiders float away on golden parachutes. They rail against affirmative action, but it's okay to call dad's friend, Mr. Company Executive, to get Junior an inside track. It's the hypocrisy. It doubly irks me since I'm not a WASP.

Reagan really lowered the bar in blaming the poor, minorities, the marginalized, Jimmy Carter, etc., for the ills of the country. The easy solution--elect me and I'll put "those" people in their place. I'll deregulate everything and Reaganomics will make the "good" people rich. History has shown otherwise.

I have found that I don't like most republican voters. They don't think beyond their own selfish interests. They made fun of us on the left for many years, esp. the recent Bush* supporters. I know a few who've been laid off, they aren't laughing now. Some say they won't vote for Bush*. Good! Now they want to come over here. Why now? It's no fun now that the dog is biting you instead of the people you were laughing at for the past 12 years.

[SpiralHawk]

41. Fusion

http://www.chiron-communications.com/communique%207-10.html

(snip)

As he met with audiences in Santa Fe, Mr. Barrios told a story about the most recent Mayan New Year ceremonies in Guatemala. He said that one respected Mam elder, who lives all year in a solitary mountain cave, journeyed to Chichicastenango to speak with the people at the ceremony.

(snip)

Mr. Barrios explained: "We live in a world of polarity: day and night, man and woman, positive and negative. Light and darkness need each other. They are a balance. Just now the dark side is very strong, and very clear about what they want. They have their vision and their priorities clearly held, and also their hierarchy. They are working in many ways so that we will be unable to connect with the spiral Fifth World in 2012."


"On the light side everyone thinks they are the most important, that their own understandings, or their group’s understandings, are the key. There’s a diversity of cultures and opinions, so there is competition, diffusion, and no single focus."


As Mr. Barrios sees it, the dark side works to block fusion through denial and materialism. It also works to destroy those who are working with the light to get the Earth to a higher level. They like the energy of the old, declining Fourth World, the materialism. They do not want it to change. They do not want fusion. They want to stay at this level, and are afraid of the next level.


The dark power of the declining Fourth World cannot be destroyed or overpowered. It’s too strong and clear for that, and that is the wrong strategy. The dark can only be transformed when confronted with simplicity and open-heartedness. This is what leads to fusion, a key concept for the World of the Fifth Sun."

(snip)

[buck4freedom]

42. As Jefferson said...

regarding the French Revolution:

"The Tree of Liberty must be watered (every ten years) with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants."

We're spinning out of control since 1980. Think about it, except for a brief respite during Clinton's first term we've pretty much been sliding down the slope to totalitarianism ever since. They made sure that Clinton's second term was useless thanks to the impeachment and other attempts at a political coup.

[AG78]

44. As has been said

it's basically just another thread in history. That's all America is. We didn't stop history.

It's nothing new to this country. It's just that more people have a voice these days.

And it's nothing new to the world. We're just such a young country by comparison, that it can be surprising.

Hatred has been around for a long time. Love can sometimes win out, but it takes a long time, and many lives for it to happen. And then, all it takes is one event to have it come crashing down.

Existence is a struggle against itself. That's why you can't give me a decade in human history where there hasn't been a war or some horrible human condition happening.

It's not new. Same old story.

[Strapping Buck]

45. It's become a culture war, plain and simple...

Until the past few decades, Democrats and Republicans held pretty much the same values concerning faith, family, and society. They differed, often radically, on matters politic-- but basically were the same stock of people.

In the past few decades, beginning in the 60's and 70's, the Democratic Party has moved to represent a purely secular worldview while the Republican party has pretty much stayed in the rut of the traditional Judeo-Christian worldview. And these two cultures are clashing head-to-head right now. It is unclear which culture will win out in the end.

That's why it is so much more intense now. It's not just about politics anymore-- it's a war of cultures and a war between the most basic values people hold about who they are and what their purpose in the universe is.

[swinney]

47. gop POLICIES AND EVIL ATTITUDES AND DEEDS CREATE HATRED

1. Policies of Destroy. Tear down good things D have done for our nation.

2.No Social Projects. Darwin--Survival of the Fittest. If a few get all the wealth that is Ok they deserve it.

3. KKK--Fought WWII Draft.NRA

4.Joe NcCarthy--Strom Thurmond-Hesse Jelms-Tom Delay-Lee Atwater-Karl Rove-Harding Teaopot--Reagan::: Iran Contra--Hud--S&L--Beirut-Grenada-
Increase spending by 80%--Debt by 187%--deficits by 110%(conservative???)GWBush-pathological lying--destroying fiscal stability-alienating the world--getting our people killed all over the world--Debt-Debt-Debt.

5.COUNTRY CLUB PARTY help rich help rich help rich

[ComerPerro]

49. Because they are condescending, arrogant liars

They are assholes whose nationalism and jingoism borders on fascism. They readily eat up any lie Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity want to tell them, with no documented evidence provided; but if you try to tell them something that is even an obvious and easily accessible fact, they demand five sources and they dismiss every source you show them.

These fucking morons are such assholes that they are actually proud of the fact that they will believe anything another reich winger tells them. They don't care about the truth, and in fact they will relish their ingorance as long as it gives them something to feel proud about.

They are bullies, they are the reason Hitler achieved power so easily. Their type enabled the Nazis to take power.

I am sorry, but I have no respect for someone who kisses the ass of the upper class at their own expense. In fact, I only feel contempt for such people.

They can all go get fucked.

And don't get me started on their fundamentalist, religious reich, skewed Christianity, holier-than-thou morality police bullshit...

[SpaceCatMeetsMars]

54. Yep, I have come to realize that a lot of them WANT to be

brainwashed because it allows them to feel superior. They won't lift a finger to try to find out the facts of a story for themselves. They love getting fed by the right-wing and will discredit any fact as being "from the liberal media" or from foreign countries that they say "hate us." As if evreyone in the whole world is always wrong and they are always right!

[BiggJawn]

50. The ReTHUGS would see us all Dead or in Prison

So why should we be concerned if caring about our own survival amkes us seem "mean"?
I make no appologies for my dislike of ReTHUGlicans. I may not wish to do to them what they wish they could to me, but I sure as hell don't have any in for tea, either....

[tom_paine]

52. Well said, BiggJawn

I like your style, sir...

[dawn]

53. I think the GOP started it...also, it's their hypocrisy.

That's the main thing for me, their hypocrisy and their belief in legislating their version of morality.

Also, the way some rich Republicans look down on those who makes less than them makes me sick.

I have compassion for them, but I don't have to like them.

[mrgorth]

65. I heard comment on this

that the attack on Clinton was revenge for the 60s. It was revenge for Nixon and Iran/Contra but also the whole 60s. Clinton represented that to them. Like some others have implied, the issue is that they feel they are entitled to do whatever they want in "our interests". That involves slaughtering socialists in central america, allowing american hostages to be held longer than necessary and sacrificing hundreds of thousands of american and southeast asian lives to "fight" communism. The refuse to be called on the carpet for it.

[Iverson]

66. They hate us for our freedoms.

n/t (exept this bit)

[texastoast]

67. Whiner repressives lost . . .

in 1992. They had had the office for 12 years, and wah wah wah they didn't want to give up their turn.

I watched a true division in our nation start in 1994 when the ultrhypocritical Gingrich came to power. He used the mouthpiece Rush Limbaugh to do more damage to our country than anything since the Civil War. Together they used Clinton's faults to divide our nation.

Whether or not it is high-minded to play this game (and a game it is--with very high stakes), paybacks are hell. However, these repressives who seek power now are evil. The Democrats must not back down. There is a war on the way.