Who here believes we have a free market?

[Solon]

When I ask this, I'm not saying, that we should have one or not, but more importantly, can one exist in the real world. It is my belief that we have never had, nor have now, what the right wing and most of America believe is the "Free Market".

Its a myth, and one that perpetuates throughout the country, on both the left and the right of the political spectrum. When private companies need subsidies to survive (Pharms, Airline industry, GE, Boeing, Lockheed, etc.) they are not an example of a free market. When companies rely on government to provide any service, it is not a free market. When Corporations need public courts to enforce contracts, it is not a free market. When companies rely on the public to build their infrastructure (ATT, GE, etc.), it is not a free market.

So why is the belief in free markets so predominate? If it was never free in the first place, why not regulate it, and heavily. I say that if the government is to take a hands off approach to corporations in regulation, then they are to do so in all other areas as well, then we will see how much these companies rely on US for their sustinence. I would say most of my examples would collapse in a year.

[mhr]

1. I Agree, The Biggest Myth In America!

eom

[Fovea]

2. I have been saying for a year and more now

that we are heading into a full command economy.
Indeed, that is the only way Bush can be so sure
about 2.6 million jobs this year.

These will be the best job you never applied for.

[qwertyMike]

3. Corporate Socialism

might be a better term.

[lastknowngood]

5. corporatism is more rightly called fascism check out

Mussolini's writings.

[BillZBubb]

4. Agreed

The free market is a myth left over from the early days of capitalism (Smith's "The Wealth of Nations") when there were no economic giants--just small manufacturers.

Our markets are semi-free, but not free by a long shot.

[einniv]

6. Public subsidy of research and then private profit from it,

is what our system is. It is kinda like reverse socialism. Take from the people and give it to private entities.

I'm pretty sure this isn't what Adam Smith had in mind.

[DuctapeFatwa]

7. It is a free market within a feudalist framework

for example, the value of a day's labor is determined freely by the lords.

In the US, that value has now fallen below the price of a day's survival for the serf.

[Touchdown]

8. Nature abhors a vacuum

If we have a so called "free market", then somebody, somewhere will get powerful enough to subjugate everyone else. Ask Apple, Netscape, Oracle, and Sun. Be they tyrants, kings, tyrranies of democratic (generally, not us) majorities, or corporate raiders, only one constant remains, somebody will control it all.

The key to defeat this is a healthy balance...which means regulation, and a focus on the poeple of a nation, not the corporatists.

[HEyHEY]

9. Free,? yes. competitive? no.

[Solon]

10. Definition of Freedom, in an Economic sense.

In the ideal right wing fantasy, any company in the country can fulfill its highest potential in profit, with no government interference. That is their idea if a free market. However, they never would get rid of the subsidies and help, not to mention infrastructure, mail, and other services the government provides. If the government can regulate the public behavior of the populace, then why not the behavior of companies as well.

[HEyHEY]

11. I agree

much better explained than I.

[maggrwaggr]

14. even a boxing match has a referee.

It's not truly competetive without regulation

That's the flaw in their argument.

Most people are too uninformed to know this. They get it pounded into their heads over and over by the corporate media and the repubs all the time -- "what's good for corporations is good for the economy and therefore good for Joe Sixpack".

It's a lie.

[Solon]

15. Thats is the flaw.

The Repubs envision a type of deathmatch with no rules in the arena for the corporations. But that quickly degenerates, the market must be regulated, otherwise it would collapse.

[maggrwaggr]

16. the repubs don't CARE

they don't care about anything but lining their pockets and doing favors for their friends.

They don't care about the country, the people, anything else.

All they want to do is tell whatever lie will let them get away with their activities. They get off on getting away with shit.

It's pointless to argue with them about this stuff, what's vital is that we pass laws and enforce them.

I'm sick of arguing with these crooks.

[maggrwaggr]

12. all right, who's had an Econ class?

"free markets" only exist when there is a 100% level of competition.

When it exists, it does result in the best products for the lowest prices.

It doesn't exist in its pure form very often.

And it's not an "invisible hand" by any stretch. In a competetive situation, what happens is that the big and strong try to knock out the small and weak, either by buying them up or by engaging in practices that limit actual competition.

This results in, of course, monopolies, the antithesis of what a free market is supposed to make happen

The role of the government is supposed to be to PROMOTE competition. By passing laws and making sure that the big boys don't use their size and strength unfairly.

But what we have now is a government that is pretty much run by the big corporations, none of which are actually competetive. These huge corporations are oligopolies.

So the irony is that you have corporations LYING about their needs -- i.e. they say it's about "free markets" when it's really about protection for their unfair business practices.

They don't WANT competition.

[0rganism]

17. Exactly -- competitive markets require regulation, or they deteriorate

It's quite natural. Monopolies and oligopolies are a function of economic entropy.

[RainDog]

13. we have a bunch of corporate welfare cheats

who do not have to take any responsibility for their crimes.

Ken Lay
The entire Bush family
The Halliburton subsidy which used forced child labor in Burma to "elevate" their standard of living via free trade...

the revolving door between govt and lobbying which makes the whole issue of trade and law a joke.

Elite cheats. some guy has written books on this very subject. the rich are different than you and me...they commit crimes knowing they have the pols in their pockets.