Convince me NOT to emigrate to Canada

[thermodynamic]

With everything going on, I'm ready to wipe my slate clean, get a bankruptcy while I can, then save up a few bucks and get out of this shithole of a country that Bush* is clearly destroying. I want no part of it anymore and I refuse to be permanently relegated to "second class citizen" when other countries treat homosexuals equally like everybody else.

I have had it and now I'm going to do something about it.

Emigrating is the only way. No more tax dollars from me going to the * administration. Bush doesn't care about improving America, just helping out his corporate buds who also don't give a fuck about America.

I want to move to a community that cares for its people and to a community that cares about itself. That is something I desperately want to partake in. The US offers less and less to me each and every day, especially with that _____ !^@%#$ _____ @%#&^!$ idiot* in the white house.

I just can't take any more of it.

Why should I stay in America, a country I am rapidly losing faith in?

[gWbush is Mabus]

1. .

if everybody did that,

we would have a world superpower of just Freepers.

yikes!!!

[sweetheart]

34. no, the superpower leaves with us

The freepers are like teenagers with dad's car... when dad leaves, the superpower will be no longer... that is why it is important to leave... could you imagine how bad things would have gotten if the nuclear scientists did NOT leave germany in the 30's?

The entire superpower is built on the backs of the real people with power... that is liberal america...

We are the rich wife that the wicked husband married to kill her and steal her wealth... if she ditches him and walks, he's just a fucked up murderer in waiting... and such are the freepers.

A country of 100% police and no citizens is no country at all.

[brokensymmetry]

2. Hmm.

Well, the Canadians like to put vinegar on their french fries instead of ketchup. And you'll have to learn to say "Eh?" a lot. That's about all I can think of!

[thermodynamic]

10. Just like Steak Escape!

I love that vinegar!

And ketchup is nothing but tomatos and mounds of sugar, the Canadians rather have a good point...

Eh? No problem!

[Emboldened Chimp]

3. Chimpy will lose in '04

And you will have a sane, Democratic president once again.

[thermodynamic]

11. I recall a lot of DUers thinking we'd win in 2002 as well

Then Wellstone was murdered and Rick Khan made an ass out of himself, whose presence went nationwide, and turned the elections nationwide into a "landslide festival" for the pukes. I can see something like that happening again in 2004.

I will not live under Bush and not how America is heading. I don't know of any other form of protest I can make, except for suicide but I've decided I'd rather live in a civilized country.

[Emboldened Chimp]

28. The climate is much different now

and stands to only get worse for the Chimp. People were still afraid in Nov '02; the push for war in Iraq was just under way; visions of mushroom clouds were dancing in the heads. Now people know it was bullshit. And the more our men and women die over there, the worse it will get for him.

[TheDonkey]

4. Your call?

It's your choice really. If you are that mad at living in the US, don't have your blood pressure rise when you can easily leave.

I personally enjoy American food, weather, sports, and entertainment more. O Canda always seemed like an awkward song to me too. ;-)

[amazona]

5. some practical reasons

1. U.S. citizens, unlike citizens of most other countries, have to pay federal taxes even if they live outside the U.S. and don't enjoy most of our services. So...they get your tax dollar anyway if you ever want to come back and visit your friends and family.

2. Canada is no longer making it easy to emigrate because of the hordes of health care emigrants that they would see pouring out of the U.S. to escape our crippling health care costs. Can you afford to emigrate? Would you be allowed to work in Canada? Emigrating is not going to be as easy for most of us as we tend to imagine unless we're wealthy or want to marry someone for their citizenship. So we're going to have to figure out how to make a community right here.

[thermodynamic]

12. Oh dear

You've got a point.

Which is sad, how dare the US be so fucking greedy to go after my money even after I left? The pukes say "Love it or leave it, but if you leave you continue to pay us." WHat a bunch of !&@^#%$ ____ !^@%#$ uncivilized savage bullies!

Especially #1, which seems to make suicide a preferable form of protest if it ever gets to such an extreme point. (Something I won't intend happen because maybe I should refuse to let America sink even lower than it has.)

I'm torn right now...

But I won't go until after 2004.

[brokensymmetry]

20. About taxes -

I believe the first $75,000 per year that you make as an expat is not taxed. There was a proposal to take that benefit away, but I don't believe it has passed yet.

Of course, if you're planning to make MORE than that, I guess you'll get taxed.

[sweetheart]

35. 70K exemption

You get a 70 k exemption on foreign earned income, and it is unlikely you'll be making a salary over that in canada, so the tax point is moot.

Learn french, it will help you on your points for emigration. Also, you can't lose by getting university or professional qualifications as ALL western nations are in need of some professions like nurses, teachers and such.

Don't keep canada so narrow... new zealand could support your needs also... and the best way to emigrate is to get in a university in that country for a degree/diploma... that way you can assimilate in an environment designed to work you in to the economy... much as foreign working people come to america... first to university and then in to the working world.

Also, if you don't file your taxes in america, what are they going to do?... extradite you... more than unlikely. The law suggests you do not have to file until you "return" from being abroad... as the law is pre-telecommunications... and if you went to canada in 1890, you could not possibly file your taxes until you returned anyways... so you have a grace period to file all missing years if you've been overseas.

Also, there is obviously no state tax when you are abroad. Best to prepare by getting your finances in an international form, as once you start banking in canadian dollars, operating in US dollars will be a pain... so maybe open a bank account/credit card to being setting up a track record in your new country.

good luck.

[amazona]

60. well, i had to assume he had a U.S. income

Do you really think he will be able to get a work permit/job in Canada? That is a completely different issue.

So far, my investigations have not convinced me that getting a job is very likely, but I am looking south -- Canada is much too expensive for my budget.

[Sufi Marmot]

19. Foreign Earned Income Exclusion...

Per my understanding and prior filing, U.S. citizens are exempted from being taxed on the first ~$80,000 of foreign incomed earned outside of the United States, if you legitimately reside in a foreign country and earn income there. So unless you get a really high paying job, you don't get taxed twice. Of course, you are still taxed for interest, captial gains, and dividend income on American securities.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2555.pdf">Form 2555

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f2555ez.pdf">Form 2555-EZ

Tax attorneys, is this correct?

-SM

[LEFTofLEFT]

6. I just went for a visit

All I will say is - Go and Go fast - save a place for me - I am on my way

[hotphlash]

7. If you can't stay and fight then Happy trails.

"There is nothing wrong with America that can't be cured with what is right with America"

-Bill Clinton

[Andy_Stephenson]

8. Pave the way brother....

I may be right behind you.

[mlawson]

9. Their ten months of winter alone, would do it for me!!

If I left, it would be for some British island in the Caribbean. But I'm not gonna.

Hey, at least hang on and see what happens next year in the election. You will know by April or May, if bush is going down...

And there are many gay-friendly places in the US in which to live. I live in one.

[thermodynamic]

14. I live near Minneapolis, but with the news claiming

Bush has a chance of winning this state in 2004, I'm just sad and outraged and purely pissed off right now.

[Kellanved]

13. Easy: move to Europe instead

just kidding :hi: ;-) :hi:

[Postman]

15. Because we're Free and the evildoers hate us....Oh..., that didn't work?

wait....wait!!!...WAIT FOR ME I'M LEAVING TOO!!!!!

[Resistance Is Futile]

16. More jobs in Canada

http://www.statcan.ca/english/Subjects/Labour/LFS/lfs-en.htm

"Since the start of 2003, employment has grown only 0.5% (+84,000). Even so, this is a better performance than in the United States, where employment declined 0.2% over the same period."

This, dear reader, is the benefit of being ruled by a responsible but inattentive government as opposed to being ruled by an organized kleptocracy pretending to be a government.

[KFC]

25. Wrong

First of all, there are obviously more jobs in the US.

Second, the unemployment rate in Canada is 7.7%, it is 6.1% in the US.

http://www.bmo.com/economic/headlines/cjul11a.htm

[glarius]

36. Actually the % figures don't explain it....Canada counts their unemployed

in a different manner than the USA....Don't ask me to explain...I can't remember how it goes but I remember hearing that the USA uses some method of counting that does not include everyone out of work....Canada's economy is booming....

[hotphlash]

17. what's with all this emigration INSANITY?

You don't like what's going on here, help fix it. Don't jump off the boat.

"Why should I stay in America, a country I am rapidly losing faith in?"
You don't lose faith. Either you never had it or you had it all along. Jumping off the bandwagon is silly. You are an American in good times AND bad. If you leave it now, don't come back when things are good.

PS...Shit like this gives Repugs Ammo in saying how much we hate our country!

[StopThief]

18. The winters are colder there.

NFM

[IndianaGreen]

42. Not for long!

Thanks to Bush and global warming, winters in Canada will be as balmy as they are in Tampa today.

[Stargleamer]

21. You should try to learn French too, if that's the case.

You write that you had to declare bankruptcy. Although I would hope this wouldn't matter to Canadian immigration authorities, in reality, it actually might. And it seems that you're way more likely to be granted approval as an immigrant if you are an engineer or doctor, than if you are working as a messenger or clerk. I think the Canadian immigration authorities have a list of currently acceptable professions and if your profession isn't on that list, it might be quite hard.

Good Luck. If you are readily able to emigrate tell us more unfortunate souls staying here what steps you took to become Canadian.

[newyawker99]

57. Hi Stargleamer!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[quilp]

22. It's too bloody cold up there!

Actually that's the only reason I can think of.

[glarius]

37. For God's sake it's only cold in the winter..Much of Canada has better

winters than Chicago!!!....Summers are great...Not unbearable like Texas or Georgia or Florida etc...
edit---spelling

[Nlighten1]

23. What exactly is the process for this anyway?

How do you get to "move" to Canada anyway?

[Tyler Durden]

24. R.R. 3, Ontario, in three years.

Stop by for a cuppa coffee.

[ShaneGR]

26. No offense, but stand up and fight you p**sy.

That's how you'll be viewed. When your country needed you most, you turned tail and ran. This is a war, and you will be dodging that draft. Stand up for yourself, be a real patriot. If we lose in 04, then I'll understand it... but not now.

[hotphlash]

27. THANK YOU! FINALLY! SOME SENSE!

n/t

[drdigi420]

30. here here

stay and fight, we need everyone we can get to oust the BFEE

Besides, if you leave, you risk becoming a victim of US foreign policy.

[ArkDem]

59. What would be the difference in 2004?

Why would you ever stop doing what you feel is right?

[Trad Bass]

29. Canada is AWESOME

I have been once but what I saw really impressed me.

It's nothing at all like the movie "Candian Bacon."

Best of luck to you. You sound like a cool person.

Canada could use you.

Trad

[LeftistGorilla]

31. Not really....

Right wing Nuts don't run this country and has little to no chance of winning power in a looong time...stay in America and fight for your freedoms that have been taken away...

we don't need you... your country needs you... the world needs you...

:nuke:

[newyawker99]

58. Hi LeftistGorilla!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Clete]

32. That's a hard one Thermo.

Most of my lifelong friends are Canadians, so it is hard not to like them. But, one of the reasons they are here is because of the cold winters. However, even that isn't much of a deterrent. Sorry, I'm not much help am I? I really like Canadians and Canada is a beautiful country. I don't know how many Yanks they want crowding into their space though.

[glarius]

39. What about the cold winters in Chicago and many other American cities?

I think it's a trade off...What's worse cold winters or unbearably hot summers, like Texas or Georgia or Florida etc., when it's impossible to spend time outside?....I was in Florida, in the summer time once and thought I would die.:)

[Clete]

43. True Glarius.

It was the only reason I could think of for him not to go to Canada, if he didn't like seasonal weather, but it wasn't meant as a slam. Heck I like north like weather myself. Right now I live in a place some people think of as a sort of a paradise and yet I find myself yearning for the woods and the lakes of the north.

Canadians have given him the best reason though, which I think most Americans should think about, is to stay and fight for our country. Only, if it gets to the point that death goon squads start roaming our streets in the name of the government, then and only then should targeted groups should think of getting the "H" out.

[glarius]

49. Oh I agree completely...in fact I said that in a thread a few days ago

We in the rest of the world need you good Americans to stay and fight for your country...We depend on you to vote out Bush and company...By the way, I didn't think you were slamming Canada...Sometimes I come across sharper than I mean to...I guess I just never can understand when I hear that old refrain...Canada is too cold....:)

[Minstrel Boy]

33. It's not much of an exaggeration to say

the fate of the planet will be decided in America. Stay and fight. If you come to Canada and the kleptocratic imperialists hold sway in Washington, before you know it America is going to come to you.

If anything, concerned citizens of the world ought to emmigrate to the United States. If America is abandoned to apathetics and freepers then we're all finished.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

38. If you knew Bush was going to lose, would you stay?

I give you my personal guarantee that whichever democrat we nominate will kick his ass in a very close election.

[cthrumatrix]

40. I say ...go for it. At least you are taking action to better yourself.

Unlike our congress/senate and media which let this crime continue day in and day out.

[jiacinto]

41. I have some feelings about this

First of all you are lucky to be in America. Many other countries treat gays in a much more horrendous fashion. I hate to break it to you, but discriminatino against gays is everywhere.

You should be greatful to live here. Try living in a third world country and you'll soon find out how better America is.

[Clete]

44. Gee whiz, Carlos, Canada is not a 3rd world country.

Have you ever visited?

[jiacinto]

46. I didn't say Canada was a third world country

But I do think people don't understand how lucky they are to live here.

[Clete]

48. I have no argument with that Carlos.

I feel very lucky too, however, I can understand the American need to find greener pastures. It is a sympton that things are getting bad and yes, we need to make sure we don't turn into a 3rd world country.

[Dude_CalmDown]

45. Phuk Canada - Let's go to Jamaica

Canada's cold. Jamaica has magical plants. Convinced yet?

[alfredo]

47. two words

black flies

[aquart]

50. You wanna go? Go.

And if something goes wrong in Canada? New Zealand?

[Rowdyboy]

51. Shug, I hope you don't go...because we need you here...

But if you feel you must, then go. Hell, they have the internet in Canada don't they? The point is, you should be where you are happy. I'm happy here and now so I'll stay. If you think there's even a good chance you'll be better off there, shalom...

[quinnox]

52. I encourage you to go!

Heh, then after you are there, you can post on DU about how happy you are that you moved there and that the rest of us still living in the U.S. are a bunch of suckers who are living in a crumbling empire. (Satire, I have noticed a few ex-pats say this kind of stuff before on DU, *shrug*)

[sandnsea]

53. You should go, honestly

I've read a few of your posts and I honestly think you aren't made for this country. There's nothing in the world wrong with that. This country is never going to change to fit to your political/social views. At least not in the next 20 years anyway. If you are personally unhappy and the social structure is harming your life in personal ways that would be improved somewhere else, you shouldn't stay. If you can find a foreign country where you will be happy and contribute in a positive social way, you should do that. That's why we're on this earth. You really should never put love of country, which is actually complete bullshit, over your responsibility to yourself and any sort of worldly or spiritual belief you may have.

Just my two.

On edit:

I didn't know you were gay when I posted this, I don't tend to remember that kind of thing about people. 'you weren't made for this country' wasn't meant to imply anything about that, rather only the political/social views I've seen you express. And the anger, you seem kind of angry and unhappy. Fuck that. Take care of you.

[izzie]

54. Had a number of my family that left the US.

Ones that went to Can. loved it.

[HawkerHurricane]

55. The weather is nicer in Bermuda.

Oh, you wanted to be given reasons to stay in America, not suggestions of places to go...

[LeftHander]

56. Vote DK and go to a UU Church before you leave

YOu'll find a welcoming community at a Unitarian Universalist church and you'll feel good about voting for Dennis.

If Bush wins again then you can go, I'll go with you.

Peace