Grammy's sexism.

[Ripley]

I didn't watch the celebrity/pop crap award show that seems to honor so-called musicians, but...

I heard Janet was banned and Justin was allowed to perform and was given awards. Doesn't this sound a little odd to people? The woman who had her breast exposed by a man on national TV (whether she approved of it or not) is punished. And the guy who did it is given respect and praise and honor.

Whatever you think about the SB situation, that is just plain wrong. Why wasn't he held equally accountable for the action? In reality he should be held more accountable because no one forced him to rip her shirt off. Come on...I heard the punk say on TV that he "was appalled and shocked by the situation, he couldn't believe it happened!" WHAT????????????{/b]

Oh and btw, did any female win an award for her singing or musical ability? Or is it still just the slutty T&A porno princesses that win it all?

[Dookus]

1. They were both offered the chance to appear

if they apologized. Justin took them up on it, Janet didn't. No sexism involved.

[Ripley]

3. I thought I saw her "apology" picture in the paper...

Didn't read the article, but I thought she gave a videotaped apology to everyone. Is that true or not?

[Tim4319]

14. She already apologized once,

It seemed a little ridicules to me, for Janet and Justin to apologize a second time. That seems like a little double jeopardy to me. Why is she being punished again for something she has already repayed her debt for.

[Mistress Quickly]

2. He apologized, she didn't

but the funk part was kick ass.

Robert Randolph and the Family Band? They rocked! Earth Wind and Fire? They rocked. George and P-Funk? They're gettin' old, but damn, it was smelly ol' funk!

[freestatevet]

4. Beyonce is a

"slutty T&A porno princess?" Not like making erroneous generalizations; is there?

[Ripley]

6. Uh, yeah. I've seen her on MTV.

Isn't she the one that acts like a street whore to the rapper's "pimp" persona, then she poses in "fuck-me" positions in the sand to some middle eastern beat? Including continually spreading her legs for the camera?

If that's not slutty to you, what is?

[freestatevet]

10. Nothing is

I don't appreciate men using pejoratives to attack a woman who desires to flaunt her looks and/or sexuality. Only weak men and jealous women call women sluts, IMHO.

[Loonman]

5. Aretha is a T&A porno princess? News to me.

Traditional R&B Vocal Performance: "Wonderful," Aretha Franklin

[Ripley]

7. Like I said, I didn't watch. Glad to hear real musicians are covered.

If you guys really think the bevy of females who are featured on this show are not dressing and acting slutty, I wonder what it takes to define "slut" in your book.

Aretha of course would not fall into the Brittny, Christina, Lil Kim, etc. majority.

[NashVegas]

17. Slutty, No. Provocative, Yes

It's all just more sexism. Who do you think designs their clothes?

[madrchsod]

26. beyonce`s

mother designs the majority of her costumes. she will wear designer clothes to some appearences but for the most part blame her and her mother for her clothes

[belle]

40. I like L'il Kim. Slut power! Christina's okay too in my book.

Britney is a blank-faced Bush-barbie blow-up doll; my problem with her isn't that she's "slutty" but that she encourages American hypocrisy about sex, and unlike the other two, genuinely D-U-M-M.

But if you really want a Brainy Kickass Slut: Princess Superstar. I live for the day she gets the mass recognition/worship she deserves.

[randr]

8. It was Janet's choice not to appear

and not to grovel in an apology that is not necessary.
The only thing shocking that she exposed was the rampant hypocrisy that has run amok for far too long.
Hoorah Ms. J! YOU GO GIRL!

[Ripley]

11. That's not true...here's the link of her apology.

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=Janet+Jackson+apology&page=1&offset=2&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26amp%3BrequestId%3D1059051b845b8797%26amp%3BclickedItemRank%3D1%26amp%3BuserQuery%3DJanet%2BJackson%2Bapology%26amp%3BclickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.mtv.com%252Fnews%252Farticles%252F1484801%252F20040203%252Fjackson_janet.jhtml%253Fheadlines%253Dtrue%26amp%3BinvocationType%3D-%26amp%3BfromPage%3DNSCPTop&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mtv.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F1484801%2F20040203%2Fjackson_janet.jhtml%253Fheadlines%253Dtrue

[NicoleM]

9. You know what cracks me up?

You start a thread decrying sexism, and then you end it by calling some unnamed women "slutty T&A porno princesses."

[freestatevet]

12. Right on Nicole

He's just another man who feels it's OK to label an overtly sexual woman as "a slut."

[Ripley]

18. So anything that is "overtly sexual" is cool and never "slutty?"

Gee, since when did feminism bring about an end to sluts. I didn't call all women in music sluts...but clearly if anyone has watched MTV (which is all the GRammy's seem to cover) you will see the most popular videos shown are more than just sensuality.

Oh well, I guess I'll be labeled a prude now because I don't want my 8 year old nephew to see a pierced nipple during the SuperBowl and have to explain why the guy ripped her shirt off.

Thanks all of you "progressives" for saying "anything goes." :eyes:

[freestatevet]

22. That's right

"slutty" is just another word used by men (mainly) to stereotype and pigeonhole women. Especially women who chose to flaunt their sexuality. It's demeaning. Why shouldn't a woman have a right to dress or act the way she feels comfortable, or she feels best expresses herself without being called names?

[NicoleM]

23. Here's a friendly tip.

You read a lot into people's posts, things which may or may not be there. For example, I haven't seen anybody say "anything goes." You should probably ask people if that's what they mean to say, rather than telling them they said something they didn't--it makes for a more civil and productive conversation.

[Ripley]

34. So it is productive here to say nothing is degrading in the way

women are portrayed and portraying themselves in the music world these days? We all know it is for ratings...or the adolescent boy's eyes.

Why are you attacking me for thinking it diminishes their talent when their entire dress and actions describe sexual activities regardless of what the song is about? I'm not saying women can't "express" themselves...but you know and I know this is marketing and is grossly overused to the point we had Janet meltdown at the SB.

I'm done with this thread, because clearly no one will allow me as a feminist to express my objection to the objectifation of women as sexual devices used to sell records and for the most part most women in the music world have sold out to it.

[freestatevet]

36. I don't agree with your assessment that your objection to women

being objectified "as sexual devices" makes you a feminst. A feminst would say that women have the choice of using their sexuality to sell records if they CHOOSE to do so. It's all about a woman's (or man's) right to choose.

[NicoleM]

38. You did it again.

I didn't say "nothing is degrading in the way women are portrayed and portraying themselves in the music world these days." I also didn't attack you "for thinking it diminishes their talent when their entire dress and actions describe sexual activities regardless of what the song is about." If you assumed that, that's your problem, not mine.

Just for the record, I also think it's deplorable that so many young women in the music industry feel for whatever reason that their primary selling point is their sexuality. I don't agree with it. I don't buy music from artists who do it. If I had kids, I wouldn't let them watch it. But I also respect that what they do with their sexuality is their choice--and isn't that a part of being a feminist, not judging women for their choices?

I also don't use the word "slut." As has been noted, it's a pejorative that is used almost exclusively to put women down for behavior that is accepted when men do it (i.e. promiscuity).

You would have known all that if you had bothered to ask, instead of jumping to conclusions.

[belle]

41. I think being patronized and sneered at is what's "degrading."

Whores were priestesses, once. And some of the brightest, most evolved women out there today are whores. here, enlighten yourself:

www.carolqueen.com

www.susiebright.com

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/3L5PII9E2DG48/104-5837150-5899930

p.s. your nephew's probably more comfortable with the sight of an exposed breast than you, that is unless you've been communicating how AW-FUL it all is to him consistently. Why not stop hiding behind "the children" and just admit it makes YOU uncomfortable? It'd be a start.

[Ripley]

13. So it's sexist of me to call a slut...a slut?

Gee, don't you think there are any sluts on MTV? Oh, I get it..you get to define slut, not me. Hmmm, so much for my free speech.

[NicoleM]

15. Gimme a damn break.

You can call anybody a slut. You can define a slut any way you want. I don't see anywhere in my post where I indicated that you should be unable to call a woman a slut. However, *I* think it's sexist to call a woman a slut.

[freestatevet]

16. Why even use

that word? It's demeaning and pejorative in the context in which you are using it.

[Ripley]

21. From Merriman-Webster...

Main Entry: slut
Pronunciation: 'sl&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English slutte
1 chiefly British : a slovenly woman
2 a : a promiscuous woman; especially : PROSTITUTE b : a saucy girl : MINX
- slut·tish /'sl&-tish/ adjective
- slut·tish·ly adverb
- slut·tish·ness noun
- slut·ty /'sl


Big difference between women being sensual and sexual and women portraying themselves as prostitutes (you know the women who sell their bodies for money). Sorry if I offend any prostitutes out there.

Sheesh.

[freestatevet]

24. So it's okay to use it?

Gee we should just start tossing around the N-word then. It's a pejorative term, used mainly by men to denigrate women. The term is as offensive to me as the N-word is to some.

[brainwashed_youth]

27. perjorative?

who the hell says perjorative? degrading is a better word

[freestatevet]

29. You pick your words

I'll pick mine! :-)

[brainwashed_youth]

31. just saying

I've never heard anyone say "perjorative"

[freestatevet]

33. Roger that

Well, now you have.

[NicoleM]

32. Freestatevet

does, and I do, too. It's a good word. Nothing wrong with having a good vocabulary.

[brainwashed_youth]

20. I think ur obsessed with sluts

"oooo,I need a dirty woman"-Pink Floyd

[Bridget Burke]

35. Yes, it's sexist.

"Slut" is nowadays defined as a woman who is sexually promiscuous; there's no word to describe male behavior that's quite so negative.

Of course, the earlier meaning for "slut" is a dirty, slovenly woman. Most of the women on MTV take extreme care with their appearance. They diet, exercise, employee hairdressers & manicurists, & spend lots of care choosing their outfits. The final result may not be to your taste (or mine), but nobody's forcing you to look at them.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madrchsod]

19. ya somewhere

i got lost in what the hell is going on in this post. janet got screwed over cause she`s a woman,justin is the new savior of pop music so it was ok for him to show up-without saying he was sorry- then it was changed to both of them ,so the corp boys could cover their asses for staging the whole dam thing. they knew it was going to happen...janet should have just came out and said ya it was staged and if you don`t like my tit -deal with it...but that would be the kiss of death for her musical career.

[slappypan]

25. Alison Krauss

Alison Krauss won 3 Grammys — a great example of a talented female musician and performer, who has a lot of class and dignity.

[DrWeird]

28. So I hear Outkast won best album.

That's one thing they got right, more power to them.

[brainwashed_youth]

30. yup

Outkast deserved it 2. They are the sole reason hip hop is interesting. Andre 3000 could very well be the next Prince

[peekaloo]

43. Stank you, stank you very much.

:thumbsup:

[republicansareevil]

37. Janet engineered it.

She's admitted as much. I don't think Justin knew it was going to happen. I think she suckered him and everyone else. I don't see Janet Jackson as the victim here. She played everybody.

[PragMantisT]

39. June Carter Cash!!!!

She won two.

BTW isn't it always the woman's fault? Abuse, pregnancy, incest, rape.
Sounds like SOP to me. Blaming the guy just makes him prouder.

[adriennel]

44. Missy & Christina

Missy Elliot won best female rap performance (luv Missy!)

Christina (the original T&A porno princess ; ) won best pop female vocal (take THAT Beyonce, with your breathy little voice)