We're all going to hear it from the right about Clinton's 'draft dodging'

[Screaming Lord Byron]

in defence of Bush's Guard Record. As far as I'm concerned, Clinton registered for the draft, but as a Rhodes Scholar in Oxford was pretty unlikely to be called for service. I'd like to put this nasty little right-wing meme to bed, here and now. Anyone have the categorical evidence?

[SlavesandBulldozers]

1. Clinton's not a candidate

so it would be fun to watch them try.

Also, if memory serves me. Clinton essentially admitted to dodging the draft which put an end to it for everybody except the chickenhawks.

[Gman]

35. Clinton has not been a candidate since 1996

[colonel odis]

2. i didn't realize clinton was running for president.

so why would he be even remotely relevant to this?

[Screaming Lord Byron]

3. Because to the right, everything is about Bill Clinton.

It's playground stuff. 'Well, our 'President' may have gone AWOL, but your President was a draft-dodger'

[underpants]

8. W can't stand on his own and be his own man

Everything has to be "but but he did too!!!" or "He did worser!!!" or "He said the same thing"

Comes off as whiney and childlike. Not that the MTP interview is going to help any either.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. I'd like to remind the right of Cheney's record

He got 5 deferements, and said he had "more important things to do". I like to quote that and look for reactions.

[NNN0LHI]

9. Cheney had more important things to do like get 3 drunk driving arrests nt

[NewJeffCT]

30. I thought it was...

That he "had other priorities"??

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Supposedly

He pulled a high enough number in the draft lottery (remember that) that it wasn't even an issue.

Besides W said it Viet Nam was a political war and that he didn't support it either.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. Speaking of political wars....

... yeah, do I really need to say it? :puke:

[displacedtexan]

6. We dissected this earlier today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1100232

The best point made: Dodging and Deferment are not equal.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

11. Yeah, dodging implies a deliberate course of action.

This'll probably all get mired in semantics, as usual with right-wing talking points.

[cosmicdot]

18. exactly ... framing of the topic is at play in the pundit pigpen

as betweenwars posted in that thread:

Don't fall for the language trick:
"Draft dodging" is not the same thing as "Deferment."

[bryant69]

7. I hadn't thought about this

But you are dead on--this will be what they say. One of that advantages to Kerry (should he be our nominee) is that they will be stuck with Clinton to make this case. But I don't think it will convince anybody who doesn't already hate Clinton, love President Bush, and has general disdain for Republicans (in which case they wouldn't vote for us anyway). Centrists won't be moved.

Bryant
check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Bandit]

31. Advantage with Kerry ~ They are already saying Kerry left the service

a year before he was due to get out. don't know the particulars but it is their justification of Bush* leaving a year or more early.

[liberalnurse]

10. Well, Clinton is not running....

So lets not give them the diversion advantage. Reflect back tho the original issue.

[NNN0LHI]

12. Don't tell nobody but I think a lot of people wish Clinton was still pres

[bowens43]

13. Why would we hear that? Clinton isn't running.

I respect anyone who actively opposed the Vietnam war as Clinton did.

[polmaven]

22. Well, exactly.

GWB "Supported my government" about the war, which, of course, is evasive speak for supporting the war.

But, as were many of the elite at the time, GWB was given preference and leap frogged over less connected men to the National Guard.

President Clinton was opposed to the war, demonstrated against it, and yet obeyed the law, registered for the draft, pulled a high number, and no doubt would have, if necessary, requested a student deferrment.

We all know, candidate or not, President Clinton's service will be introduced by the Republicans. Not to worry, though...his actions were honorable and legal, and he never tried to cover them up.

[Randomthought]

14. don't let RW frame the debate.

Don't let the RW decide what the issues are. This should be a non-issue since Clinton isn't a candidate. Stay on message! The issue is GWB's military service.

[KharmaTrain]

15. This Big Dog Don't Hunt...Clinton Fear Is Hillary Now

Most intelligent bipods know the difference in Clinton trying to avoid the draft (many of us did or tried), including bunnypants and Quayle...and the question of the manchild's missing year and inability to directly answer this question the more its asked. This is a classic case of not the lie, but the cover-up that's hurting among his followers.

There are many on the Reich wing who fear Hillary will still enter the race and she's the ultimate evil. They feel Bill's been trashed on thrown on the ash heep of history. If anything, he's a convenient fall-back for the failings of this regime (Clinton bombed Iraq, too...Clinton's recession...Clinton's intelligence, blah blah).

Hillary, however, is that looming threat...be very, very scared!!

[AirConditionedGypsie]

16. I wish somebody would claim that * "loathes the military"

Maybe that would shut up the RW.

[Bridget Burke]

25. * has certainly been responsible for more military deaths.

Plus all the military wounded.

Plus all the veterans' benefits cut.

[AirConditionedGypsie]

32. But Bush still has not claimed that

he hates (or loathes) the military.

It would be useful if he did say that.

[Bandit]

39. If you are insinuating that President Clinton did say that you are wrong.

President Clinton wrote a letter which has been used by the right-wingers to show he hated the Military when what was said in the letter was that he knew many people who disliked what the military was doing. Knowing people who feel a certain way and feeling that way yourself are different. But leave it to the Wing-nuts to not get it right. Do they ever get anything correct?

[ThoughtCriminal]

17. Bring it On

Easy thread killer is a list of Republicans who used student or questionable medical deferments. It's a long list - Start with Cheney and Rush. They absolutely will NOT want to talk about it or start making lame excuses. At that point, they're losing ground and wanting to talk about anything but military service.

[leetrisck]

19. I will never forget Clinton at the Vietnam Wall

giving his first speech after election (to mostly veterans). Many of them turned their backs on him. He faced their criticism head on and gave a great speech that day. The only time that I know of that bush has actually been to the Wall is when he sneked over very early on either Memorial Day or Veteran's Day. It was raining, he had an umbrella and there was nobody there - they made sure of it.

[Skip Intro]

20. I hope they try it

That will backfire on them worse than the flight suit.

The American people (sleeples and all) are not stupid. The shifting of blame and failure to take responsibility, the evasion of addressing issues and the increasing parsing of words and meanings are already pulling the moron down.

Attacking Clinton as a defense of g.w.awol will fall flat. I hope they try it, I really do.

[RapidCreek]

21. Clinton ain't the President anymore....he hasn't been for 3 years

Whether he dodged the draft is irrelevant. He got a deferment on the promise that he would join the ROTC which he did not. He subsequently went to school in England and after he graduated put his name back into the draft pool but was never called.


RC

[mac2]

29. Clinton vs. Bush AWOL?

Let's remember Clinton suffered humiliation because he refused Perle and Cheney their war in Iraq (it's in writing). Clinton wasn't a "war monger", that's the big difference. He almost got a peace agreement in the ME. He succeed in Ireland.

For Clinton to stand up to them ruining his own legacy was pretty brave. He would not have attacked his own citizens or abandoned them in their time of need on 9/11. Hillary was right...it was a RW conspiracy on many levels.

Clinton wasn't AWOL or breaking the law...getting trouble, etc. Bush is always on TV telling about his religious "conversion". He forces religion on us while he has broken every commandment of his. Clinton avoided the draft because he didn't like killing people and the war was wrong. Bush because he was incompetent and a drunk..and lied about not doing it.

As far as I can see, GW Bush is a "cold hearted, arrogant, murdering, thug" like his father. Clinton wasn't delusional about power. The Bush's feel entitled to it.

I feel, Neo Cons have been influencing our government before Clinton...since Reagan. Clinton lived under their heel for eight years while Republicans ruled the Congress.

RWers (X-President Bush & family) are jealous of Clinton's popularity with the citizens (especially women). He didn't need whole city blocks closed off when in a city. He didn't put people in jail for not agreeing with his bad policies. He was in the crowd...hugging. He didn't ruin people's lives...or torture them...murder them. He wasn't into fear...like now. Clinton was more of a human being than any Bush. Clinton has more compassion and people know it. People around the world still love him...everywhere he goes they crowd around him. Bush? Well...you know.

Clinton wasn't about fear or tyranny. He wanted to protect our enviornment. He wanted the vote for DC.

Clinton still thinks globalization is good for us...but we should give people decent wages and their rights. I can't see how this system can work for anyone because so much power will be abused...like now.

As X-President Bush stated, at the 10th NAFTA Anniversary dinner of NAFTA on CSPAN, "his" plans were interrupted for eight years...now they are back on track to put the World Union in place..murder, rob, and pillage weaker countries for profit and power. PNAC is going forward unless we can stop it.

There is a wide gap here between Bush and Clinton as President of the most powerful democracy on earth today.

I'm still hoping for a President who is of the "people" and for survival of the world. PNAC isn't our plan but one for the elite few. It will destroy us all. We need a Cininatuis now.

[magnolia]

24. It's not about....

...the draft dodging or going AWOL...it's about the LYING. Clinton didn't lie.

I agree with many others...he's not running. I'm the biggest Clinton fan there is but I'm not wasting my time and energy defending him. If it's brought up...it's the perfect opportunity to shift to Kerry's record.

Side note regarding lying: With personal matters, Clinton lied...as in "I did not have sexual...", "I did not inhale." etc...but with important matters like military...he told the truth.

[swinney]

26. clinton and draft dodging

a book--"Bill Clinton-The Inside Story" covered it well.
Also,"The Comeback Kid" book.

1. He did hate the Vietnam War. Hated it. He wrote on it in his letter to Colonel Holmes. He stated that, as a member of Senator Fulbright's staff, he had more knowledge of the war than most people.
Senator Fulbright was most active member of Congress against the war.

2. He joined the Reserves for one reason: To take advantage of a once in a lifetime educational opportunity. He had worked two jobs to help defray his expenses at Georgetown and here was an opportunity to not work but study. He was a studious young man.

3. His error: He wrote Colonel Holmes(a Republican) and said "Thank you for saving me from the draft". Political opponents beat it to death.

4. He should have written:"Thank you for allowing me to take advantage of a once in a lifetime educational opportunity".

5. He did deceive Colonel Holmes by using a Dimbaugh tactic-Sin Of Omission. Had he told Holmes of his hatred of the war he would never have been given his membership in the Reserves.

6. His long letter to Colonel Holmes from Oxford revealed exceptional intelligence for one so young.

7. He received notice he had been accepted into the Yale Law School.
This was while in his second year at Oxford.

8. He left Oxford to prepare for entry into Yale in the Fall.

9. HE JOINED THE DRAFT --UPON RETURN TO HOT SPRINGS.

10. It was required by law.

11. He received a high number which meant he would not be called since drafting was being reduced.

12. YES! HE DODGED, TEMPORARILY, THE DRAFT. HIS REASON WAS DIFFERENT FROM DAN QUAYLE AND GW BUSH. THEY WERE TO BE INDUCTED SHORTLY AND GO TO F I G H T. ONLY RECOURSE WAS NATIONAL GUARD.

13. CLINTON DID AVOID THE DRAFT NOT TO GO TO VIETNAM BUT TO COLLEGE FOR A PURPOSE.

14.INTENT--A DIFFERENCE.

15. HE HAD PROMISED COLONEL HOLMES HE WOULD JOIN THE ACTIVE RESERVES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS UPON COMPLETION OF HIS STUDIES AT OXFORD.

16. WAS IT AN INTENT TO DECEIVE. WHO KNOWS? DID CIRCUMSTANCES CHANGE? LIKE BUSH SR AND NO NEW TAXES PLEDGE. LIKE JR AND CONSERVATIVE COMPASSION? LIKE JR AND I WILL BE THE EDUCATION PRESIDENT?
LIKE JR AND WMD?

I WILL TAKE BILL CLINTON'S CHARACTER THROUGHOUT HIS LIFE OVER ANY BUSH ALIVE AND ANY REAGAN ALIVE.

I WILL TAKE THE CHARACTER OF MOST DEMOCRATS IN WASHINGTON OVER CONSERVATIVES.

DEMOCRATS ARE FOR BUILDING. REPUBLICANS ARE FOR DESTROYING THE GOOD THINGS BUILT BY DEMOCRATS.

clarence swinney burlington nc

[Screaming Lord Byron]

33. Thanks, that's the kind of hard evidence I was looking for.

[CatWoman]

27. Yep

Yesterday, I was posting most of the day on the Yahoo message boards, and that's the only way they can defend * -- the ole ABC approach.

ABC = Always Blame Clinton.

I was responsible for quite a few exploded heads over there :D

[devinsgram]

28. It's now 2004, not 1992.

What's Clinton got to do with it? They just don't let it die, do they.

[amazona]

34. i wasn't aware that clinton was running

Whenever the right brings up irrelevant comments like a non-candidate's military record, I think the proper response is, "So?"

Clearly Kerry, Clark, and many other fine candidates are not dodgers.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

36. It is wrong to even reply to Clinton accusations in this election season.

He's not running, period. That's the only point that need be made.

[BiggJawn]

37. At least Clinton wiped his ass properly...

Unlike that great warrior Gush "Pill-Poppin'" Pfleghmball...

[alcuno]

38. Repeat after me, "Everything changed after 9/11...."

It doesn't matter what happened before.

[justsam]

40. they would be

waisting their time,, Clintons been there-done that.. there is no where for him to go but down.Hes been on the top 2 terms