Bill Bush versus George W. Gates

[JailForBush]

Imagine if George W. Bush and Bill Gates traded places.

Could Bill Gates be a worse pResident than George W. Bush? Could Bush do a worse job designing software and screwing consumers?

Together, they could wreck public education even faster than Democrats. Come to think of it, they're doing that already!

[stevedeshazer]

1. Well,

You do seem to have quite an imagination.

[Democrats unite]

2. I happen to think Bill Gates is great

Talk about the American Dream!

To bad so many people envy him to the point of hatred.

[JailForBush]

3. Too bad so many people are blind to reality.

I passionately hate Bill Gates based on some very real issues - like his status as the world's most prominent monopolist, the crappy software he designs, the threat Microsoft poses to national security, the things Gates has done to Seattle (where I live), his shameful exploitation of public schools and on and on.

[Democrats unite]

5. The crappy software he designs?

He's not stopping you or anyone else from making better software. Go for it! He donates more money to charities than 3rd world Countries have in GNP! His support in the schools by me in Florida is great, when it comes to computers, he has helped out allot!

Like I said envy to the point of hatred.

on edit: it's called innovation, people that want someone else to do it is just plain lazy, don't like whats out there make it better.

[JailForBush]

8. LOL

"He's not stopping you or anyone else from making better software."

Many people in the high-tech industry would disagree with you on that one!

"He donates more money to charities than 3rd world Countries have in GNP!"

Watch out for the attached strings; they might blind you.

"His support in the schools by me in Florida is great, when it comes to computers, he has helped out allot!"

Right, like a lack of computers is the biggest problem in education!

"Like I said envy to the point of hatred."

Like I said, terrorists hate us because they're envious of our civil liberties. You and George W. Bush think SO much alike!

[Democrats unite]

10. You offer nothing but sarcasm here & no proof

When and if you ever find any proof come back & we will talk. Until then have a good evening.

[JailForBush]

12. Yeah, right - like your posts are just OOZING proof... LOL!

I think you just hate me because you envy my superior logic.

[stevedeshazer]

21. When you are finished

kicking your own thread with your superior logic, this one could use your attention: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=352180#352292

[JailForBush]

23. Thanks for the tip!

I sure hope they can provide me with the URL's I requested!

[Democrats unite]

22. Anyonethat reads this thread can see where the hatred is.

[JailForBush]

24. You noticed that too, eh?

Amen, brother! Democrats want to convince Americans that they're the party that will stand up to corporate corruption.

But threads like this reveal that an astounding percentage of Dems - quite likely a majority - suck up to MICROSHAFT!

The Democratic Party clearly doesn't have what it takes to reform its way out of a paper bag. They'll most likely endorse John Kerry, and I hope he beats Bush (who many people think is even worse than Joe Lieberman).

But what next? Will a victorious Democratic Party do anything to take back America, or will they be too busy sucking up to Microsoft, the Seattle Times and the ever so comical Seattle Weekly?

Reality Check: The Democrats are not the answer. Long-term reform requires people to jump ship and form a new party. Not the Green Party; they're really not much different than Democrats. We need a party with common sense and backbone.

[jmowreader]

25. Yeah, actually he is

It has gotten to the point where there is no venture capital available for software development. Venture capitalists all know two things: Microsoft has the best marketing engine in the world and Microsoft can write a version of whatever you make and distribute it free just to kill you. Look what happened to Netscape. Look what happened to Adobe Persuasion. Doonesbury did a piece on getting Microsofted.

The company I'm worried about now is Siebel. They make customer relationship management software. Expensive CRM software. Microsoft has released a sub-$300 CRM for "small business," but if my experience with Microsoft Publisher is any indication (people design six-color jobs in it; not even Microsoft claims it will do that), large businesses will buy MS's CRM and make it work.

If there is no money available to fund development of better software because the people who have it now don't want to lose it when Microsoft steals your idea and makes it available for free download, then Microsoft really is keeping you from developing better software.

And don't pull out the "open source" thing. You know what happens: the open source programmers come up with a great, wonderful, secure, free something-or-other and MS holds a press conference: "The latest open source widget is insecure. Don't risk losing your data to an untried, unproven, unsupported application. Only Microsoft cares about your business. Never do business with anyone but Microsoft." And the CIO sits there and goes "uh-huh, uh-huh, yes, Bill, right away" then tells you to trade in your copy of Photoshop for MS Picture-It because Photoshop is completely insecure. And get that damn Linux machine out of there because it's insecure. Throw that mainframe in the trash, we're putting in Windows XP Datacenter Edition. Microsoft will save us $100,000 a year through elimination of licensing fees on VM/390, so we can afford to hire four new techs at $33,000/year to keep the new Microsoft products running.

I hate Microsoft. They make crap.

[fujiyama]

26. He also donated...

money to Bush.

For someone that claims to care so much about education, health care, and the general well being of people, his political contributions don't reflect that.

I used to sort of respect him for his charitable causes, but it seems like he's as much a conniving, crooked son of a bitch as any big CEO out there - it's convenient how he gives Bushies money considering they dropped the suit against him...

No one dare say the word bribery.

[leyton]

13. The software is not crappy...

Computers are bound to malfunction some of the time. Has your car worked perfectly since the day you got it? Have you not had to make any repairs to your house at all?

Microsoft is expected to create an operating system that
1) runs smoothly on every make of computer, with every printer, every monitor.
2) runs every program currently on the market, each having varying demands (particularly in the graphics department with games).
3) runs all the programs that previous versions could support. That is, people expect their old Windows 3.1 games to function perfectly, meaning that the programmers of Windows can't change anything that might affect that program aversely.

I have dabbled in computer programming, and I can tell you, it's not easy. To make a small program to work correctly requires skill; for it to be smooth, good-looking, portable, and tolerant of users who don't know how to use it, you have to be a first-rate programmer.

And I reject the notion that Microsoft stifles innovation. They come out with new versions of software every few years, adding security features and all kinds of other things I can't keep up with. And I also don't think it's so bad that Microsoft controls a large portion of the market share. As many problems as you may have with software, imagine if you were trying to run software engineered for one operating system on another computer; imagine if you were trying to transfer files between platforms; imagine having to network computers on different platforms. Not easy.

[JailForBush]

14. Imagine THIS...

"Computers are bound to malfunction some of the time."

And PC's operating on Windows are bound to malfunction far more often than PC's running on Linux or Apple computers.

"Has your car worked perfectly since the day you got it? Have you not had to make any repairs to your house at all?"

I don't have to install an upgrade in my car every other week to protect it from flaws Microsoft built into it.

"Microsoft is expected to create an operating system that
1) runs smoothly on every make of computer, with every printer, every monitor.
2) runs every program currently on the market, each having varying demands (particularly in the graphics department with games).
3) runs all the programs that previous versions could support. That is, people expect their old Windows 3.1 games to function perfectly, meaning that the programmers of Windows can't change anything that might affect that program aversely."

That isn't true at all. But most people do expect Microsoft's Windows to at least run MICROSOFT programs smoothly!

"I have dabbled in computer programming, and I can tell you, it's not easy."

So why don't you find another job?

"And I reject the notion that Microsoft stifles innovation."

I reject your rejection. Unless you're referring to Apple and Linux, which Microsoft can no longer stifle. I can't wait until Red Flag Linux hits the market!

"They come out with new versions of software every few years, adding security features and all kinds of other things I can't keep up with."

Yeah, right. They also come out with an endless stream of fixes in a lame attempt problems they should have nailed in the first place.

"And I also don't think it's so bad that Microsoft controls a large portion of the market share. As many problems as you may have with software, imagine if you were trying to run software engineered for one operating system on another computer; imagine if you were trying to transfer files between platforms; imagine having to network computers on different platforms. Not easy."

Of course, it isn't easy; that's because Microsoft engineers everything the Microsoft way. What were you saying about stifling innovation?

Fortunately, the open-source community has pioneered a variety of ways to bridge the platform gap the Microsoft community engineered.

Go Linux!

[leyton]

15. Pardon me...

"I don't have to install an upgrade in my car every other week to protect it from flaws Microsoft built into it."

Do you expect Microsoft to be able to foresee every virus? There are millions of lines of code in Microsoft software, and viruses come out every week. Computers change much faster than cars.

"So why don't you find another job?"

Wow, let's not get personal, okay? I never was a professional computer programmer, didn't ever plan on it; it was a hobby.

"Yeah, right. They also come out with an endless stream of fixes in a lame attempt problems they should have nailed in the first place."

Again, you assume that making a perfect piece of software is easy. In my experience, the problems are usually fairly obscure and apply to a very small percentage of users.

I don't have anything against Linux. But let's not hate Microsoft because it's successful, and let's not fault them for not coming out with perfect, flawless software.

[JailForBush]

17. Success Is Fine, Corruption Isn't.

"Do you expect Microsoft to be able to foresee every virus? There are millions of lines of code in Microsoft software, and viruses come out every week. Computers change much faster than cars."

It's probably too late now. They're astounding software design failures have left the barn doors open for hackers - just like George W. Bush left the barn doors open for terrorists.

"Again, you assume that making a perfect piece of software is easy. In my experience, the problems are usually fairly obscure and apply to a very small percentage of users."

Windows' problems are obscure???

"I don't have anything against Linux. But let's not hate Microsoft because it's successful, and let's not fault them for not coming out with perfect, flawless software."

I don't hate anyone for being successful. I hate Microsoft because it's corrupt.

[leyton]

18. Yeah, Windows problems are obscure.

I don't know of any major problems that I hear about everyone encountering. They may manifest themselves in similar ways (blue screen, "illegal error," etc.) but that's not the same thing. This is among people who have Windows Me or XP, I suppose.

[JailForBush]

19. Right, obscure enough to make world headlines every other week N/T

[Deja Q]

20. Time for me to step in:

1) runs smoothly on every make of computer, with every printer, every monitor.
2) runs every program currently on the market, each having varying demands (particularly in the graphics department with games).
3) runs all the programs that previous versions could support. That is, people expect their old Windows 3.1 games to function perfectly, meaning that the programmers of Windows can't change anything that might affect that program aversely.


First, though: Innovation? http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/innovation.shtml speaks for itself. Innovative? Bollocks.

1. He makes the operating system. Therefore he should be supporting the hardware; not making hardware vendors whip up the drivers and pass a test which allows them to slap a MS logo on the box (which is VERY expensive and everybody has the logo yet not everybody's driver WORKS. The logo is nothing more than profiteering for Microsoft and does nothing to truly ensure the product you buy is going to be sufficiently compatible.)

2a. Again, how much of this effort should be on the part of the graphics card maker?

2b. Particularly with games. There were gaming standards before Mircosoft created bloatX, er DirectX. Namely OpenGL, which was faster than DirectX. Of course, Microsoft wants its own name for control sake, even if its product is slow and bloaty - screw the consumer, MS needs money. (I'm questioning society's desire of having one platform only. Makes hacking easier to do as well. )

3a. People want the ability to move forward while having the ability to use older programs as needed. Period. Some people can't afford to upgrade and are stuck with older programs. Should they be left to rot? Hardware can cost much less than software, especially if it's custom-tailored software. Are we now supposed to all buy the same shrink-wrap slop, like a bunch of tin-pot robots?

3b. EMULATION. Linux using Win4Lin v5 runs most apps as fast or faster than native Windows on the same hardware. This also fits in with 2a. Using Windows emulation under Linux has helped me a lot, and hopefully I can ditch the emulation as Windows software itself is bloated, inefficient, and slow (confirmed by benchmarking 3d first person shooter games made for both Windows and Linux, Linux is blazing by comparison...)...

Security features. You mean security HOLES. Everybody makes them and everybody corrects them, but Microsoft makes them more readily and easily, it seems. It's an embarrassment. And since Microsoft ain't open source, we have to wait for them to see if they'll bother to fix their problem. And if you're using a discontinued platform (Win95/98/Me/NT 4) you're SOL, go spend $300 for a new OS and $800 for new hardware to run it on.

Yes, programming is difficult. Problem is, if a bunch of anonymous people from a round the world can make a hack'em'up like Linux be more stable and faster than Windows... that's an embarrassment. I'll include Apple solely because of OS X. Any prior OS version they made made Windows look rock solid by comparison, I'll grant you that...

Also, C and C+ were meant to be portable between platforms. Same code, with a few modifications or tweaks if needed, could easily be recompiled for any platform. It works, often.

Then Sun made Java, proclaiming portability - but relying on a truckload of sloooooooooooow JVM software (Java Virtual Machine) to run within a browser and to run apps within it. This is stupid if you want to run anything that crunches numbers or renders graphics (two examples of CPU intensive tasks...) It works, to a point, but WTF happened to C/C+ and a bunch of competing platforms? People became indolent...

[JailForBush]

4. By the way...

Your comment "to bad so many people envy him to the point of hatred" is a classic. Have you noticed the similarity to George W. Bush's claim that terrorists hate us because they're jealous of our civil liberties?

Yeah, right.

[Democrats unite]

6. Our hatred to GWB, what would you call that?

Yea right.

[JailForBush]

9. What would I call "Our hatred to [of?] GWB"?

BINGO - you're getting it! If you're referring to George W. Bush, I'd say "our" hatred is genuine. People hate Bush for a reason. Likewise, many people hate Bill Gates for a reason. Terrorists hate America for a reason.

Millions of people don't ordinarily jump up and start hating someone or something for no reason at all.

[4morewars]

7. If the american dream...

includes a rich daddy, then yeah, way to go bill !!!!

[JailForBush]

11. Ha - Gates a victim of Silver Spoon Syndrome!

Yes, he was born with a rich daddy alright. You should have seen the Seattle Weekly cover that sported the headline, "Can the Rich Be Good" over a photo of Bill Gates' father.

On closer inspect, the moron was dressed like a medieval Italian - probably a subliminal reference to Bill Gates' purchase of Leonardo da Vinci memorabilia.

What a bunch of clowns. He should have dressed like an Italian prostitute.

[fujiyama]

27. I'll give...

his dad some credit for opposing the repeal of the estate tax though.

[WHAT]

16. Imagine...

IBM.open.com

or...Disney and Tinker Bell (the pixie/pixal?).