I feel for the little girl in Florida, But...

[Robin Hood]

It stuns me that the whole nation is grieving over this one child, when our children are dying everyday in Iraq. When we have murdered thousands of Iraqi children with shock and awe. I don't mean to be insensitive, Her murder outrages me.

But where is the outrage over Bush getting our children killed everyday for no reason? Where is the outrage and grief over the Iraqi children that we've killed and maimed? This is a sick, sick country.

[mhr]

1. No TV Coverage Equal No Outrage, For Many TV Is The Only Reality!

eom

[Robin Hood]

3. It is sad that TV has become reality.

TV is not reality!!!

[Catherine Vincent]

14. You are 100% correct.

Because we saw the little girl being snatched on video is the reason there is more outrage over this than any other kidnapping and murder. More than likely, as we type, another little girl or boy is being abducted and will be murdered. :cry:

[Robin Hood]

19. So true.

I just can't understand what would make someone abuse another person like that? Especially an innocent child. It is really disturbing to think about.

[DrWeird]

2. It's all about the TV coverage.

I didn't think they'd find the girl until next season.

[Robin Hood]

5. lol..

That pretty much says it all.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

4. I agree. And while I feel terrible about that little girl,

would her abduction and death be getting this much attention if she were African-American or Latina?

[Robin Hood]

7. No it would not.

You know that, and I know that. Whether this nation of deep denial would ever admit to that is another thing.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

25. the tabloid national media tends to give attention to pretty white girls

like Elizabeth Smart and Lacey Peterson. Tell me that isn't true. Maybe your local affiliates cover the senseless deaths of minorities, but I seriously cannot think of one that was given constant attention by the National Media. Can you?

[Democrats unite]

10. Oh please!

[Misinformed01]

24. Oh please what?

I think she might be right.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

28. I know I'm right, Stephanie

Can you think of one instance where CNN was on site 24/7 to cover the abduction of an African-American girl?

[Misinformed01]

30. Nope, not one

The only difference here is the video camera.

However, if you want to look at another case...I would say look at the way that kid in Utah was all over the news for a year.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

37. Elizabeth Smart, JonBenet Ramsey, Laci Peterson

at the same time Liz Smart disappeared, an African-american girl in Milwaukee was abducted on her way to school.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/missinggirl_milwaukee020621.html

[DrWeird]

40. There was the one case...

Back in the last wave of abduction coverage, some people started complaining that no black kids were getting coverage. So finally CNN found a story where a black kid had been abducted.

Only nobody was interested and the ratings flopped. If CNN posted on DU that story would have been a thread killer. Fortunately the found the girl alive and well, but nobody noticed, not like with that blond Utah girl.

[outinforce]

56. Is Anyone Else

Is anyone else going to be watching the coverage of Oprah's Birthday party later?

[DrWeird]

71. Maybe Oprah fans.

I myself will be busy spending too much money on my own birthday.

Why do you ask?

[outinforce]

72. Why Do I Ask?

I dunno...I just found it a bit strange that a national natework like ABC was going to devote so much time to the birthday of Oprah and not to the birthdays of David Letterman or Jay Leno or Jon Stewart.

I don't know what you have to do or be in order to get your birthday ocvered on national TV these days.

[DrWeird]

76. Hey, she's a billionaire.

If Oprah wanted a big ass birthday party in North Korea she could invade, conquer, throw the party, and be back in bed by ten.

She's something of a Jesus figure to middle aged women isn't she? Here target audience is just the kind of people who would have big hang ups about turning fifty.

[outinforce]

79. A Billionaire?

How is THAT possible? I didn't think a society as racist and as sexist as ours would EVER in a billion years let a woman become a billionaire -- and an African-American woman? How did that happen?

I happen to be a male who is 52 years old. I think you have just dissed a whole lot of people by suggesting that Oprah's audience would have "hang ups" about turning 50.

[DrWeird]

80. Yeah, it was all in the news about a year ago.

She's a mogul. Shes got a hit TV show, magazine, God knows what else. I say more power to here.

Dissing Oprah's audience? Well, I don't really care about Oprah's audience. But isn't the sort of topic on her show stuff like: "So, you're hung up about being 50," "I can't believe I'm turning fifty," "I tried to commit suicide when I turned fifty," and "fifty?! Time for a makeover!"

[Robin Hood]

83. lol..

You are funny.

[Democrats unite]

33. Playing the race card on this is just plain stupid.

[DrWeird]

36. Why?

You don't think TV covers a disproportionate number of pretty little white girls when it comes to abduction?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. In what way is pointing out media inaccuracy playing the race card?

:shrug:

[DrWeird]

42. Pointing out racial injustice = playing the race card.

Can't have any of that.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

45. Oh, I forgot! Racism Doesn't Exist! it's a figment of our imaginations!

Ahh, so many progressives on DU-NOT!
;-)

[DrWeird]

53. See, now you get it.

So now apologize for trying bring attention to the thousands of juvenile terrorists cleansed in Iraq so we can get back to watching our shows about children being raped and murdered, with all the juicy little details about how it was done and in what obscene position the body was left in.

[Muddleoftheroad]

62. It's a combination of factors

The video is key. There is actual video of the kidnapping. As for the other cases, many of the parents in these situations are very media savvy. If you play the situation right, you increase the chance of having it turn out well. Poor parents -- white or black -- are less likely to know how to do that.

[polmaven]

69. Racism is not a game!!

It is all too real, and there is absolutely nothing playful about it!

[outinforce]

11. I'm Not Sure, RationalRose

I don't know the answer to your question, RationalRose.

But I can tell you this:

During the past week here in the Washington, DC area, the top local news story has been about the killing of young high school student. The student was a young man, and he was killed by another student who had somehow managed to get a gun past the metal detectors and into the school itself.

The young man who was killed as on the football team of the high school. He had, according to all who knew him, quite a promising future ahead.

He was also African-American.

I head the Chairwoman of the local Board of Education (who happens to be White) say on the radio last night that she is partly to blame for this young man's death.

[Pithlet]

87. There are also many instances

where race does play a factor.

A few years ago a little boy, not even two years old, was last seen wandering by himself. I don't know if they ever found him, because I only ever saw one brief news story about him, after the sports segment. That very same news station, the very same year, covered a story about a little boy, about 6 years old, who went missing for about a day. They found him on the side of a creek with his dog, who had stuck with him. Thankfully he was not harmed. Not only did they cover it, but they constantly broke into regular programming to update us, and even after he was found, there were recaps of the story, complete with overblown graphics ("Little Boy Lost!") and dramatic music.

The only difference between those two little boys that I could see was that one was white, and one was Latino. Guess which one got the overblown coverage? I never heard back from them when I wrote the station a letter asking why this was.

[MisterC2003]

6. You don't MEAN to be insensitive

but you are kinda being insensitive. Using the Florida gal's death as a way to promote your agenda on Iraq. And on a board where very few readers support the Iraq war. Yeah, seems insensitive to me.

[Robin Hood]

8. What's insensitive is white washing the military deaths.

and making excuses for an incompetent president. Now that's insensitive. Tell the 530+ kids who have died in Iraq how insensitive you think i am.

[outinforce]

13. I Hope You Are Not Suggesting

that the American troops who have died in Iraq are "kids".

The American Men and Women who have died in Iraq deserve better than to be referred to as "kids".

They were Men and Women.

[Robin Hood]

16. If you consider 18-20 year olds to be adults.

I don't consider them to be adults. And let's not forget the 9,000 estimated Iraqi civilian deaths, 9,000!!

[outinforce]

23. I Do Not Consider People Who Gave Their Lives

in combat to be boys and girls.

I consider them to be Men and Women.

I think that most adult people consider it to be an insult if someone refers to him as a "boy" or to her as a "girl".

I would never refer to someone who had served in combat and who was killed in combat as a "boy" or a "girl". They are adults -- able to vote. And probably much braver than I ever would be.

[Democrats unite]

9. Your out rage seems disingenuous to me.

[Robin Hood]

12. And I need you to tell me how I am feeling.

Yeah, I don't really care about my tax dollars being used to kill innocent people. Used to put my neighbor into harms way for no fucking reason what so ever. Thanks, I needed you to tell me how I feel from the comfort of your keyboard.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Democrats unite]

21. What did that little Girl have to do with Iraq

I stand by my original statement.

[Robin Hood]

32. It has to do with our nations conscience.

Everyday, American and Iraqi children are being killed in the Iraq invasion, but it is only reported as a foot note in the media. And most Americans don't even hear the reports anymore. It has slipped into the sub concious of our social psyche.

Whether it is this poor girl in Florida or a poor 18 year old in Iraq, it shouldn't matter, they both died needlessly and senselessly, in brutal and horrible ways. And it is only fitting that the forgotten soldiers in Iraq get the same grief and respect that this sweet little girl is getting.

[Democrats unite]

38. Sorry can't speak to a closed mind

This little girl had nothing to do with Iraq period. She is dead period. I live in Florida and yes I grieve for the girls family, I have been grieving for the children of Iraq since it happened, I don't like the way you started your message & I will never like the way you started it. Once again that little girls had nothing to do with Iraq.

[Robin Hood]

47. It is not my mind that is closed.

It is not me who is denying that this little girls death is happening everyday to our children at the hand of our government.

[DrWeird]

49. Closed mind?

The open mind would see they have a lot in common. They were both murdered.

[outinforce]

34. As Best I Can Figure it Out

It goes something like this:

(disclaimer: I don't necessarily agree with this line of reasoning -- I am merely trying to explain it)

We have people serivng in Iraq.

Some of the people we have serving in Iraq are ages 18-20.

People 18-20 are kids.

About 530 or so of those kids we have serving in Iraq have been killed in combat.

We have not seen their caskets on TV, even though we, as a countrym have the right to do so.

We have, however, seen a lot of TV coverage of the 11-year-old (kid) girl who was abducted in Florida.

We should have seen just as much coverage of the kids who were killed in Iraq as we did of the girl who was murdered in Florida.

If you don't agree, then you are agreeing with a massive whitewash and coverup and you most likely make real patriots (those who have a genuine concern for people who are being killed in Iraq) sick.

I think that is what the girl who was killed in Florida has to do with Iraq. At least, it is what I understand this thread to be saying.

[yellowcanine]

15. Every lost child should be grieved over

Grief is like love. There is an unlimited supply.

[Robin Hood]

17. Amen..

n/t

[Momof1]

18. We aren't allowed to see the caskets

If we saw them coming off the planes, there would be outrage.

BTW I love you signature. Johnny Cash all the way.

[Robin Hood]

22. Ding, Ding, Ding.....

You have hit the nail on the head. And the White wash of these soldier/childrens deaths is an outrage against this nation, the military and their grieving families.

We as a nation have the right to know.

[outinforce]

27. It Does Seem to Me

that this point about us as a nation having the right to know about the deaths of the brave Men and Women who gave their lives in Iraq could have easily been made without bringing up the sad death of the girl who was abducted and murdered in Florida.

But perhaps that's just me.......

[DrWeird]

31. I think the point was...

most people care more about pretty little white american girls than they care about swarthy, terrorist, Iraqi children.

And shame on them.

[outinforce]

44. I thought it had to do

with the 530+ American soldiers.

see, for instance, post #43.

[DrWeird]

46. Maybe you should read the original post.

It's about both.

But apparently most people care more about 19 year old american kids that three year old Iraqi kids.

And for all the talk of Supporting Our Troops most care little about neither.

[outinforce]

52. I Do Hope, DrWeird

that you are not including me when you suggest that " most people care more about 19 year old american kids that three year old Iraqi kids."

You do not know me or how I feel about the deaths of children in Iraq from American weapons, or how I feel about the deaths of children in sub-Saharan Africa due to malnutrition and polluted water. Or How I feel about the death of children who are sold into slavery around the world. Or How I feel about the deaths of children right here in ther USA due to parental neglect or abuse at the hands of an overburdened foster care system.

You don't know me at all.

So I do hope that you are not including me in your holier-than-thou pronouncement about who care about children dying in Iraq and who doesn't. Or who care more about 19 year old American (and, in some case, non-American-citizens) Men and Women who have died in combat.

Sorry, I won't stand for being accused like that.

[DrWeird]

57. I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

I wasn't refering specifically to you so I'll have to reserve judgement for later.

[outinforce]

My Apologies for

jumping to an unwarranted conclusion about what you thought.

[DrWeird]

68. See, I think we're getting our wires crossed.

The whole point of this thread is that sensationalist tabloid news coverage is ignoring thousands of murders for the sake of TV ratings. And they get those ratings because people woudl rather here about one sensationalistic kidnapping/murder than anything that's happening in Iraq.

[onehandle]

29. The media loves dead American children...

Better than Viagra for ratings chasing whores.

[yellowcanine]

35. No, no no. That is way over the line.

This is a child. She has parents and grandparents and friends. It is time to grieve for her and her family, not score political points.

[outinforce]

41. Exactly

Think of how YOU wold feel if your 11-year-old sister/daughter/niece/friend had been abducted and then found murdered and you saw a thread like this one.

[Robin Hood]

43. No one is trying to score political points off her death.

This is not about that, this is about remembering the forget soldiers in the Iraq invasion, they are dying everyday, and forgotten everyday. Forgotten by their government and nation. Their family is affected, but the nation that they volunteered to defend does'nt even want to grieve their death. How fucked up is that?

[yellowcanine]

51. I disagree. Complain about coverage of Janet's boob but

give this child her due. The media should be covering this and the stories of Iraq War victims. They would have plenty of time/space for both if they wouldn't be chasing the "gasp!, Someone showed a boob on TV!" stories.

[sangh0]

73. "give this child her due"???

Exactly what is her "due"?? If it's anything like what "due" to the thousands of children who have been abducted and/or murdered, then her "due" is to be ignored by the media, the way almost *ALL* abducted/murdered are ignored by the media.

If the media really gave these children their due, the entire country would be outraged at how we treat children in trouble, and the demands for action would then require spending money on these children.

Good Lord, we might even have to raise taxes!!!

[DrWeird]

82. Some times I think...

people are just trying to justify their own perverted fascination with the latest Reality TV show.

[onehandle]

59. No problem...

But if this child had died in a accident or by sickness, we would have never heard of her.

My comment had nothing to do with the right to grieve.

[yellowcanine]

67. Media is not supposed to report when a child is kidnapped and murdered?

Get real.

[sangh0]

74. Media generally does NOT report when a child is kidnapped and murdered

so why is it going crazy over this case, which coincidentally comes at a time Bush* is being accused of lying on WMD's and going AWOL?

[joe_sixpack]

84. Exactly

you are exactly, exactly right. This is one thing that I don't believe we need to tie into our issues.

[TSElliott]

50. pathetic

n/t

[DrWeird]

54. Which?

nt

[TSElliott]

55. the original post.

She's not even in the ground yet.

[DrWeird]

60. And the kids that are blown to bit's in Iraq?

I guess maybe parts of them are in the ground.

Of course there's thousands of american kids abducted every year. But I guess they're not important.

[TSElliott]

64. Nice....

Because I dislike his use of a little girls death for his Iraq grandstanding you believe that I don't think other kids abductions are important.

[sangh0]

75. Well, you haven't said anything about those other kids

nor have you made any comments as to why the media ignores them, but not this one young female

[TSElliott]

81. Your right, I did not.

Nor will I. A little girl is dead and I feel no need to compare her death to others.

[sangh0]

86. Nor do you seem to feel a need to compare how the media treats her

death compared to how they treat the others, nor any need to examine the motivations of the media when it comes to the disparity in coverage.

That is pathetic

[TSElliott]

91. Your correct again.

Scary almost like you can read my mind.

Sorry that I am not so shallow that I would trivialize a little girls death while her parents are still in mourning, so I can stand on my soapbox.

[bicentennial_baby]

58. As a woman I feel rage today

and an inestimable sadness over Carlie's brutal murder. I feel that her story, and every other murdered female's story belongs on the front page of every paper. A rape occurs in America every 7 minutes. Many rape survivors call it "unfinished murder". While I agree that people across this nation should feel the outrage over Iraq and the killing of our own men and women there, as well as the thousands of Iraqis, until the tide of violence against women on our own soil begins to turn, I will support coverage of these types of stories. It could be me, it could be your sister, or your mother. Remember this.

[Robin Hood]

61. I totally support the coverage of her murder.

And violence against women in this country has never really been dealt with. But the point of my post was to also remind people that our children are also dying everyday in iraq. it sickens me that they are being forgotten about.

[bicentennial_baby]

63. Oh I agree completely

We've had a local soldier killed in Iraq, and my brother has friends over there. I, for one, refuse to ignore or forget them, as well as the Iraqis who have died as a result of my country's actions.

[outinforce]

66. Here's A Suggestion, Liberla_Guerilla

Here's a suggestion, Liberla_Guerilla, that is offered in all sincerity and good will.

You original post seemed to suggest (to me at least) that you were stunned that people were grieving over the death of the girl in Florida while people were being killed in Iraq. What your original post said to me was, "You have not right, as long as people are being killed in Iraq, to grieve over the death of this girl in Florida".

I now hear you saying that the point of your post was to remind people that people -- Americans and Iraqis -- are being killed every day in Iraq.

That is something that we all need to be reminded of, and I thank you for your reminder.

But if, as part of your reminder about the fact that people are being killed in Iraq, you did not mean to say that we should not grieve over the death of this one little girl in Florida, you might want to clarify that point. I think it is what has many folks here just a bit upset.

[Robin Hood]

77. in my original post

I don't think that I said that people have no right to grieve. I was saying that this nation needs to be in a constant state of grief considering that peoples children are being killed needlessly in iraq.

I am outraged at that fucker who killed this girl. he should be hung by his nuts and his throat slit and left to bleed to death. Monsters like this deserve no mercy, he showed Carlie no mercy.

I am also as outraged at the fucker in the White House who is murdering our children, he should suffer the same fate.

I was watching Imus this morning on MSNBC when they reported it and I was stunned just as Imus and his guests were. His whole set went quiet.

[ProfessorGAC]

85. Reading For Comprehension Is A Skill, outinforce

The original post suggested no such thing. It was obviously in reference as to why the media jumped on this as opposed to jumping on EVERY case, here and in Iraq, where children are killed.

There was no diminishment of the right and need to grieve. Now, you're reading into the post what you want to see so you can hammer home your point.
The Professor

[joe_sixpack]

88. Children are killed every day

Why I think this story was covered so much was because of the video. Seldom do we bear witness to the last moments of a child's life. Seldom do we see evil so starkly and plainly laid bare. In those brief seconds we are forced to watch helplessly as this poor child is led off to her fate. We see the shock in her eyes grow only slowly as the terror of what is happening begins to dawn to her. Yet we see her follow along, hesitant as if not knowing whether to resist or not.

Most of the time we are conditioned to think of video as something beyond actuality. Make believe that has been edited and enhanced with special effects to magically show something staged, not real. In this case, the shock comes from just how real this event is. How cold and terribly real.

[ProfessorGAC]

89. Off Point, But Completely Correct

Not sure why you responded to my post, but i agree with your assessment.
The Professor

[Pontus]

90. The murderer deserves the death penalty!

Read what Jesus said about those who "offend" a child!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

93. Jesus has no bearing on our legal system

keep your Jesus out of my Constitution.

And, BTW, I doubt Jesus would uphold Capital Punishment. He'd FORGIVE the murderer.

[DrWeird]

65. "a rape occurs in America every 7 minutes"

Really?! Watching the news I'd think it would only happen about once every 6 months and only around black male celebrities.

Surely you're also not going to tell me there's more than three or four kidnappings per year, across racial, gender, and economic boundaries??!

[bicentennial_baby]

70. Are you trying to be funny?

If so, you failed.

[DrWeird]

78. I never fail.

I wasn't trying to be funny.

I was pointing out how the media fails to report kidnapping, rape, and murder.

But hey, if you can't laugh at kidnapping, rape, and murder; what can you laugh at?

[Blue_Tires]

92. I posted this in the LBN thread; seems more appro here

I'm not trying to minimize the loss or make light of it, but i feel this needs to be said...

Why is this a national story?? What makes this one special? Where I live, teens get shot every day, children abducted and never heard from again, babies get found decomposing in dumpsters, etc...These things probably happen in most of your hometowns, too...

I guess my question is: where is all the outrage over the other tens of thousands of unsolved and unavenged murders, slaughters of the innocent, and other injustices? I've been reading DU for awhile, and this is the first time i've seen not only so many advocates of the death penalty, but people itching to throw the switch...

Why no bloodthirsty mob over Janklow? or the guy who got 1 year for killing the gay activist in TN? Does anyone see what I'm getting at?

[Kaysera]

94. Not saying that the media shows no bias, but ...

... it would be impossible to spotlight every crime against humanity which occurs ... and if we were subjected to the media's attempt to do so ... we would be constantly and forever in grief.

In my viewing of recent news broadcasts, I've seen reports of those who have died in Iraq, particularly of those from my area of the country.

In addition, I've witnessed periodic reports of rapes, abductions, murders, etc.

Even though we know that these things happen around us constantly, every now and then, a face is put on the victim of one of these crimes ... Carlie's face was one of these.

I don't think that all the grief that has been expressed today is totally for Carlie ... rather, I think that we grieve that this still happens to our children ... it's like there's nothing concrete that we can do to stop it.

Our grief for Carlie is our grief for all the victims in this world.