Honorary Discharge from military duty........

[onecitizen]

the same as an Honorable discharge? A small thing maybe but a man on CNN defending bush just said he had an Honorary discharge. Obviously, I do not trust them.

[CO Liberal]

1. About as Valuable as an Honorary Degree

You can use it to cover a spot on the wall, but that's about it.

[freestatevet]

2. Sounds like the man on CNN made a mistake

there is no such thing as an "honorary" discharge. He probably meant "honorable."

[Rowdyboy]

3. Freudian slip?

[freestatevet]

5. Sure sounds like it!

[RobertSeattle]

4. Depends on the meaning of "honorable"...

When I was a LT in the Army, we had a E-6 come down positive for cocaine in the monthly drug test. He protested his innocence (of course they are all innocent). He was nearing his enlistment. My commander made a simple compromise with him: you don't re-up (end career), no charges pressed. Simple, done. The E-6 received an honorable discharge, left the army and got on with his civilian life without the nasty cocaine charge on his record.

Allegory to Bush's experience? I wouldn't know...

[tabasco]

13. That's right. You have to screw up pretty bad to not get HD.

Bush probably was suitable for an Other Than Honorable or General Discharge, but, of course, Daddy has fixed things for him his entire life. An honorable discharge in no way disproves Bush's AWOL problem.

[LunaC]

6. I caught that Freudian Slip too!

"Honorary discharge" that was bestowed as a gift that wasn't earned or deserved.

[onecitizen]

8. So you think it was a slip or......

the truth in fact? I looked it up and there does seem to be a slight difference. It apparently isn't used alot. Isn't it sad that we have to watch these people so intensely? I'd much rather be doing something fun instead of watching all this like a hawk.

[freestatevet]

10. Looked it up? Where?

There's no such thing as an "Honorary" Discharge.

[onecitizen]

20. I did a Karnak search and found.........

some things. And I looked it up in Gilbert Law Dictionary. It does NOT list Honorary discharge. BUT I found several people who had been given Honorary discharges but no reasons given. For instance: Lt Flinn, USAF,

http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/19/pentagon.flinn/

mentions that she was offered an honorary discharge which she refused at the time.

[freestatevet]

27. She was not offered an "Honorary" Discharge

It was an "Honorable" Discharge.

[onecitizen]

28. I don't know what happened.........

in that case and I don't care really. The military said NO to an honorable discharge and according to the article,and she (Lt. Flinn) would accept only an honorary discharge.

Look, all I'm asking or thinking about here is there a subtle difference between the two (honorable vs honorary)? Since the two words have different meanings, seems to me there must be a difference when issuing one or the other. That's all. I have no military background at all and I'm not trying to argue about it. It's just that the person defending bush yesterday, when discussing the AWOL story, definitely said he received an honorary D/C from his duty. It might just be that the military uses the two interchangeably, I dunno.

[freestatevet]

29. I'm trying to point out to you

that the military does NOT use the term "Honorary Discharge;" there is no such thing! Flynn would only accept an HONORABLE discharge. No "HONORARY" discharge was ever mentioned because it does NOT exist. Re-read the article you posted. The Bush defender made a mistake. He said "honorary" when he meant "honorable."

[onecitizen]

32. sorry but........

the article DOES use "honorary" as well as "honorable". It uses BOTH terms. And for something that does not exist, alot of people have been given "honorary" discharges. I think you ARE right though. I'm not arguing that with you. Because I cannot find a definition for "honorary discharge" anywhere. That's all I was wanting to find out. Did the guy misspeak or was bush given something less than an honorable discharge from his military duty? I realize that both terms suggest honor in their duty. I was wondering if honorary was just a little bit different than honorable. BUT again, I reiterate, I think you are right in the end. It does NOT exist in military lingo.

[freestatevet]

33. Good Lord

That screw-up Flynn's dumb ass lawyer MISSPOKE. The article quoted his statement (they should have used "sic" after the word honorary, but the reporter probably didn't know any better). What do you mean "alot (sic) of people have been given honorary discharges?" They most certainly have not, because there is no such thing! The guy misspoke yesterday, just like Ms Flynn's lawyer did.

[onecitizen]

35. End of this discussion. nt

nt

[stopbush]

7. Does going AWOL absolutely preclude one from getting an HD?

I would guess not. Go AWOL, spend some time in the brig or make the time up elsewhere and you still get the HD. Suppose you go AWOL in training. Does that mean you won't complete your training and later see combat? Nope. So you go to war, get wounded, save some lives. Do they still award you a Purple Heart? I'd imagine so. After your tour of duty is up, do you get an honorable discharge? I'd think so, previous AWOL notwithstanding.

The question isn't, "was he honorably discharged?" The question is, "was he AWOL?"

The repig talking point on this is so typical, along the lines of the 2000 election. Bush got fewer votes and was selected by a panel of 5 repig operatives who ordered that the votes not be counted. R answer: "But, he's president."

Diversionary tactic that we've all seen before.

[ThomWV]

11. No, It Does Not - Read My Post Below

.

[ThomWV]

9. Maybe Its Different Now

When I was in, back between 1966 and 1970, you had a 6 year committment. It could be filled one of several ways, the most common being to have been drafted for 2 years followed by 4 years of non-attending reserve.

When I got out I got my DD-214, just like everyone else, but you don't get the actual discharge until the full 6 years was up. So, my Honerable Discharge (as I recall that is exactly what it says on it - but its in the Safety Deposit box so I can't look), actually didn't arrive until 2 years later.

At that time you could get an Honerable Discharge, which of course is what most everyone gets. You could get a General discharge, which simply ment that you had committed some infraction within some time period of your end of duty (different bad things you might have done had effectively what may be thought of as statutes of limitation). You could get a General Discharge under less than honerable conitions - and I think that is what Bush would have earned. Or you could have got yourself a Dishonerable Discharge. In order to get the last one you would have basically have to have been released from the Federal Prison at Levenworth at the end of your sentence for something like Desertion.

Oh, General Discharges were convertred to Honerable at some later date as I understood it but I don't really know much about that at all.

My point is that I was AWOL for a couple of days (less than a week) in comming back late from a Leave I was on. They fined me a little bit and added a couple days of time to my active duty, and then it was right back to every-day army life. It was no big deal really. Because I was charged (what is called an Article 15 - which is about the equal to a nasty traffic ticket) the missing time shows up on my DD-214 but of course it was just over a year before I got out so my discharge is Honerable. See what I mean?

The crime here, presuming Bush was absent from required meetings, is that he was not charged with AWOL. That is the great whitewash.

Thom

[BrotherBuzz]

14. You received an Honorable Discharge document?

A piece of paper stating such? Is there a Honorable Discharge document? All I ever got was the DD-214, and the best I can make of it was that I was separated from the service: Character of service - Honorable..and the reason for separation from active duty on 29 April 1974 was: "Early Separation of Oversea Returnee".

I want an Honorable Discharge document (suitable for framing)!

[ThomWV]

15. Yea, I Got One

I'm trying to remember what it looks like. I havn't seen it in years and years. As I recall it looks a lot like a Stock Certificate, but its got a lot of Gold - really my memory is that poor - and in a very fancy script it says Honerable Discharge, and then it goes on and on and finally signed by someone or another.

I got it in the mail sometime around early 1973, which would have been about 6 and a half years after I enlisted.

Thom

[BrotherBuzz]

17. I guess mine got lost in the mail....

Hmmm, lots of gold, you say. I want mine!

[trof]

19. Mine came totally unexpected.

After I finished my 6 years guard obligation, I was assigned to the Inactive Reserves for some period of years. Basically a file in a cabinet in Denver, but you could still be called up in a national emergency. Years later, here it was. Completely and totally a civilian again.

[BrotherBuzz]

21. It will be totally unexpected if it does come.

I did my active bit (AUS), ready reserves (two weeks camp - no monthly meetings) and inactive reserves, but Alas no Honorable Discharge papers. Are you saying that I simply need to stop thinking about it and they will send one? Jeez, it's been almost thirty years!

[x-g.o.p.er]

16. I got one

when I switched from enlisted to officer, and a DD-214. It's suitable for framing, too!!

[TahitiNut]

23. DD FORM 256A, 1 MAY 50

Honorable Discharge
<eagle>
from the Armed Forces of the United States of America
This is to certify that
<little ol' me>
was Honorably Discharged from the
United States Army
on the   1st   day of   March 1974  . This certificate is awarded
as a testimonial of Honest and Faithful Service

<Signed by>
Louis J. Prost
Brigadier General, USA

[TahitiNut]

24. I'd like to see a certified copy of one of these for Smirk.

(I won't hold my breath.) :eyes:

[Bandit]

31. You made a statement yesterday that you had two DD-214s

How did you manage that? I have two separate Honorable Discharges but only one DD-214. Did you serve in two separate branches of service?

[ieoeja]

12. I have an Honorable Discharge

And it really, really, really pissed off my dad when I got it. He went through Korea. I spent two weeks at Quantico.

Really though, everything I have read about Bush AWOL suggests it was 90% beaucracy and 10% "why bother":

o Bush moves to Alabama and applies for transfer to specific unit.
o Transfer denied as unit is full.
o Bush applies for any available Alabama Guard unit.
o After several months a transfer comes through.
o Bush doesn't bother showing up since he only has a couple months left in 'bama anyway.
o Bush returns to Texas and fails to check in.
o Bush finally checks in and reports for 30+ straight duty days to make up for the missed time.

This is as much a non-story as Clinton's deferrment application. Since the RW made Clinton's application a story, then I have no problem with the LW making Bush's AWOL a story and do take some glee in it. But without the resources to play this 24x7, I don't see this story having much direct impact.

On the other hand, the indirect impact is great. Because the real story is draft-dodging. Anyone over the age of 45 knows that joining the Guard during Vietnam was nothing more than a legal draft dodge.

Though I did witness a Guardsman get one over on a Vietnam vet by asking, "would you have rather been in my shoes in Chicago during '68 and '69 being shot at by your fellow Americans?"

[trof]

I think I resemble that remark.

"legal draft dodge"?
So I spent 7 years with an F-84 strapped to my ass dodging the draft?
Boy, it sure didn't feel that way.
All those air-to-air refuelings in thunderstorms in the blackest nights was just draft dodging? How come my ass was biting washers out of the seat cushion?
And the time the whole damn hydraulic system blew and I thought I was gonna have to punch out but finally managed to get the gear down and landed no-flaps and no-brakes and the drag chute failed (wouldn'tcha just KNOW it?) and I got the sucker stopped by putting it in the dirt off the end of the runway, I was just dodging the draft?
Who knew?

Well, in spite of all that goofing off, I got my Honorable Discharge too, so I'm just as good as the rest of you guys.
So there.
:evilgrin:

[Skittles]

18. spoken by someone who never served

it's crap

[jmowreader]

22. A less-than-honorable discharge is a pain in the ass to do

There are five classes of discharge: honorable, general, under other than honorable conditions, bad conduct and dishonorable.

A general discharge requires you to put the troop under a bar to reenlistment, a wait of six months, reevaluation after the six months to see if the performance deficiencies have been corrected, then a complete medical examination including psych evaluation must be conducted before you submit a packet that weighs about five pounds to the first special court-martial convening authority in the chain of command. At that point all you can do is hope the commander can be an asshole when necessary, because he can do one of three things--give him the general you asked for, give him an honorable that's marked "not eligible to reenlist" or throw the whole packet back in your lap and tell you to fix the soldier. (However, if I was going to try getting someone a general discharge, the captain, the colonel and I would be in very close contact all through the procedure to make sure he got the general.)

Under Other than Honorable Conditions discharges require a few nonjudicial punishments. This one's tricky to do because most commanders don't like to fuck up a guy's future the way this discharge does unless it's absolutely necessary. I know how to do one but never actually had to. This is another lengthy process.

Bad Conduct and Dishonorable discharges are very quick, but they're issued as sentences at courts-martial.

I could get rid of a guy in a week if I wanted to and would settle for an honorable with no reenlistment eligibility. Here's what you do: When your guy needs to be thrown out and he's doing some shit that proves him unfit for service--bad hygiene, personal equipment not ready for combat, whatever--you write the Magic Counseling Statement. It says that if the unacceptable conduct does not cease, proceedings would be started to expeditiously discharge him. Wait a couple of days and if he's still doing the thing he was doing, write a second counseling statement saying the proceedings are being started to EDP him. After that, assuming your colonel will go along with you, 72 hours is all it takes to get him sent home.

[Bandit]

30. There is also a Medical Discharge

Which of course is Honorable

[onecitizen]

34. Thanx for that.........

last night I found alot of good info on a website that listed all the discharges possible. It had alot of what you have posted. It did not mention "honorary" at all. But if you google the term, you find alot of references to "honorary discharge". I was just curious about it was all. Thanx for your help.

[freestatevet]

36. Not again... N/T

[DemoTex]

25. "Honorary Discharge"

Sounds like a Bu$h malapropism to me. The guy that said it must be dumber than Dubya.

[Rowdyboy]

26. kick

:kick: