Oregon votes against tax increase

[ramapo]

Not good news....

Voters, by a wide margin, turned down a measure on Tuesday that would've raised taxes to fend off cuts in education, health insurance for the poor, law enforcement and other measures.

The package included a surcharge that would've cost $36/year for ahousehold with a median income ($41K).

50,000 of the working poor will lose health insurance coverage. Opponents of the increase said Oregon couldn't afford more taxes with an unemployment rate above 7%.

Full story here...or Google Oregon Taxes

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=81498

I though Oregon was a more progressive state. Maybe I'm missing something but the proposed increase was minimal and the cuts are major.

Any comment from Oregonians?

[West Coast Democrat]

1. Multnomah County voters were confused by Measure 30

because we passed a county income tax increase last year--this tax would have been reduced had Measure 30 passed, but I don't think most voters educated themselves on the issue.

Multnomah County (Portland) is the most progressive part of the state.

[TakebackAmerica]

2. Oregonian here..

This ballot measure was demolished. Multnomah County - the metro county- was against it 2-1.

[Qutzupalotl]

3. We've traditionally been anti-tax.

We're proud of not having a sales tax. (I voted for the measure, BTW.)

The radio says Oregonians rejected the increase because of high unemployment. Huh? Unemployed people don't pay tax.

So I don't know what we do at this point. Pass the hat? Our children's education is on the line.

[TSElliott]

6. If you were employed any time in 2003

you would have been responsible for paying it as a retro-active tax.

[Qutzupalotl]

but at a diminished rate

I don't have the tables in front of me, but if you were employed part of the year, you'd be in a lower bracket for the surcharge. But your point is well taken.

[TSElliott]

4. I voted no...

Every six months they vote to increase taxes here and most Oregonians are sick of it. It's always a nominal tax on your property or your income or gas or what ever. These nominal taxes add up and currently my state income tax is equal to my federal income tax, it's just too much of a burden for some of us to carry.

[West Coast Democrat]

7. I prefer income & property taxes to a regressive sales tax

Boy, TSElliot! You really must not pay much in Federal taxes!

[TSElliott]

8. My last paycheck was $5,000

and $2,000 of it went to taxes, Oregon was the recipient of $989 for 2 weeks of my labor.

[West Coast Democrat]

10. Oregon has to get revenue somehow!

I really don't want us to end up like Alabama or Mississippi. Do you?

[TSElliott]

I don't want to end up like those places either.

However I think our state government could be a little fiscal conservative when it comes to spending the money. What makes me go hmmmm is when I see my state taking equal portion of my check as the federal government? Where is all the money going and why do they need more?

[DrWeird]

16. If you make 182,000 dollars a year

I suspect you don't have many problems making ends meet.

[TSElliott]

19. Actually it's more like a $100,000.

My paychecks fluctuate depending on business, last month was really good next month may not be so good. Then throw in healthcare for my family and I, throw in my house payment, single car payment, daughter's college saving fund and I have barely anything left at the end of the month. I cannot afford to pay higher taxes, they are already taking enough.

[West Coast Democrat]

20. No Kidding! A $5000 paycheck every 2 weeks...

and he's complaining about paying taxes? Figures!

[Gin]

43. Read "Perfect;y Legal" and see who is carrying the whole load...

gin

[TSElliott]

11. Also a sales tax is way better than

an Income or property tax. With a sales tax it's based upon consumption so the more you consume the more you pay. Also with a lower income tax people will put more money into the bank accounts and have the chance to accrue a little interest on it. When you have a high income tax the government takes it from you before you have any chance to collect interest.

[West Coast Democrat]

14. Sales Taxes are always regressive

taxing based on consumption always puts a bigger burden on the lower classes.

[HornBuckler]

17. That's A Hefty Tax

But 5 G's Is A Hefty Pay Check.

[gristy]

26. I am surprised to meet you here.

Your support of regressive types of taxation is abominable.

[TSElliott]

27. Sorry lived in AZ before OR

and I loved the sales tax. It means that people with big money who spend it on luxury items pay more, simple as that.

I think it's ridiculous that people can buy $100,000 sports cars and million dollar houses in Oregon and not spend a nickel on sales tax.

[West Coast Democrat]

29. Ah! then you support a Luxury Tax

that's different from supporting a regular sales tax

[TSElliott]

32. I support taxation on Homes, Cars, Clothing, Restaurants, Hotels

Electronics, Beer, wine, pretty much everything except food.

[TSElliott]

33. Oh yes and most importantly GAS... I think GAS should be taxed

$1 dollar per gallon. And Car registrations should be like $500 for a new car every year.

[West Coast Democrat]

28. I share your surprise

it's very odd

[SuffragetteSal]

56. NO sales tax - Oregon will never go for that

and if you were an Oregonian you would know that.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. As a former Oregonian

I am puzzled by your statement. They don't "vote to increase income taxes every six months." There was the Multnomah County surcharge last year, but otherwise, the deductibility of federal income tax was raised to $5,000, wasn't it?

[HornBuckler]

5. Oregonian Talk Radio Played A Big Part

As Progressive As This Fine State May Be Our AM Radio Is Filled With Neo-Cons. Victor Boc, Lars Larson Among Others Worked Like Wild Animals On The AirWaves Sponsoring "Take This Tax And Shove It Day" And Organized Several No Vote Rallys And Collection Areas. The Local Paper "The Oregonian" Really Advocated Voting YES. However, People In Multnomah County (Portland) Passed A County Tax (First Ever West Of The Mississippi) And Alot Of Folks Didn't Want To Be Taxed Even More.

Things Are Messed Up Pretty Bad Here.

[oregonjen]

9. Lars did his best to sabotage our schools

His main line was the Oregon government needs to spend within its means without taxing people more and more. My problem is we can't fund schools when the fed. government keeps reducing the amount it gives. How can we protect our schools, along with funding all kinds of services for our state?

[West Coast Democrat]

12. I'm glad I live in Multnomah County

were we finally decided to go ahead and raise taxes to fund schools.

[MissB]

35. Ditto

Without good schools, we'll have a harder time attracting new businesses.

[HornBuckler]

13. I Agree

Lars Is An Uber-Douche - I Have A Hard Time Listening To Him, However I Sometimes Do To Get A Little Insight Into The Demented Mindset.

[Straight Shooter]

15. I voted for it and I am thoroughly disgusted with it not passing

I live in a small rural area and you would not believe the children without health care, their teeth are going to hell. Yes, it would have hit me in the pocket. $36 a year. Big F Deal. I'm more than happy to give up going out to lunch 4 times a year. I'm not exactly rolling in the dough over here, having taken a 15 percent pay cut a few months ago thanks to some savvy Repub maneuvering.

Not only that, we are hurting for police protection.

Some people carry on about how we need to spend wisely with tax dollars already coming in. Right. But the point is, whenever a tax measure is defeated, it's back to business as usual and those same people stop carrying that torch, until it's time to try to help their neighbor or community again. Little kids don't vote and little kids have no idea that the majority of Oregonians have told them that it doesn't matter if they need medical help or dental help. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps, kiddies. Buck up! It's a new world now.

Everyone thinks of the short-term cost. The long-term cost is much much worse. I guess I'll be donating even more to our local charities now.

It seems to me, the less we have, the stingier we get. Or is it the other way around.

Edit: BTW, Lars said people always vote their financial self-interest. He couldn't imagine someone voting against it. Sounds like a fine Christian attitude to me.

[oregonjen]

18. Exactly!

Couldn't have said it better!

[West Coast Democrat]

21. the govt will have to send them to a charity

and non-profits aren't exactly raking in the dough right now.

[lcordero]

22. It's not Oregon's fault exactly

I've talked to a few people and they are in the habit of saying "NO" to every single ballot measure that comes across for two reasons:

1. the summary that is on the ballot doesn't summarize any of the gotchas and it doesn't have any of the fine print that the original legislature has.

2. they will not give the state anymore powers even if it's a life and death situation.

[YNGW]

23. Just Wondering

I see some people are saying that this tax increase would only cost them $35 - $50 more a year, but it's worth it for what it supposed to do.

What's preventing those who feel this way from paying more tax to the state than they actually owe? Every little bit would help, right?

[TSElliott]

24. Your talking 35-50

if your income or combined family income is 35,000.

[YNGW]

25. OK

But even if someone only contributed $5, that's still putting the state that much closer to providing these needs. Do that times several thousands of citizens and you can make up the shortfall. You don't have to pass a law and tax people to raise the money. Find out what people are willing to give to the State on their own.

And TSE, I certainly understand your pinch at making ends meet, even making $100K a year, especially with the cost of living in your area of the country. I'm in the same predicament where I live, I'm overtaxed, too.

Out of interest, how many of you who are saying this tax not passing will hurt the needy have paid into the Oregon Treasury more than is required just so they'll have a little bit extra to work with?

[gristy]

34. Oh, that's right.

Since your income is so much more than that, you'd be paying in the 3 figures! Heavens! So much better that you be able to put that money into a savings account and make some interest.

[TSElliott]

39. I would rather take that extra 482 dollars

and put it twards my daughters college education. And why am I to pay so much while Corporations such as Nike and Les Schwab were going to pay 0. Sorry I do not support taxes that affect citizens and benefit big corporations.

[West Coast Democrat]

44. the tax increase was to effect corporations like Nike & Enron

but we understand how you're just struggling to get by on your six-figure salary....

[TSElliott]

46. Yeah it affected them by them paying .0002% of their gross.

While other people pay 1% of their gross, go figure. I would probably pay more in tax than Nike for last year on my nice 100,000 salary that must make me so rich.

[West Coast Democrat]

49. I don't make anywhere near $100k per year

and I voted yes on Measure 30. Leave Nike out of it...you're going to have to do a better job at convincing me you can't afford a tax increase.

[TSElliott]

50. Yeah and I bet you did not pay anywhere close

to 40,000 in taxes. I may have taken $60,000 home but that is not much when I have a house payment, health insurance, car payment, college saving fund and a tiny retirement package.

And why leave Nike out of it, I think everyone should know that the average citizen will pay more in Oregon Income tax than that corporation will. Do you really think it's fair that they will get away with paying $250 for a year when I paid $989 for 2 weeks?

[West Coast Democrat]

51. I paid plenty in taxes, just like everyone else does

and do you think I don't have bills to pay also? I mean, what's your point?

[TSElliott]

52. That's exactly it, we have bills to pay

and when it comes to paying them we suck it up and pay them, if we are low on money we cut back on spending to pay them.

But our state government does not cut back on spending, matter of fact they increase it year after year even if the money is not there because they know they can pass it off to you and I.

It would be nice for me to go to my employer and ask for more money every time I run out but I cant so I have to make cut backs, why can't the Oregon government do the same thing?

Why can't they hit those up who have more money to spend, like fat cat corporations?

[John BigBootay]

54. TSE has a right to complain about his taxes--

We don't have to LIKE being taxed. Taxation, in general, sucks. It hurts and it's a burden.

But it's also an obligation we have to our nation.

What we can and SHOULD do as citizens is be a lot more vigilant about how the money is spent and see to it that it is not wasted at any level of government.

Personally, I think government can do a much better job of spending the money than they have in the past.

It would certainly make ME feel a whole lot better if I knew that it was being spent more efficiently. With some stats putting the efficiency rating of federal dollars going to any given program at between 30 and 70 percent-- I see a lot to complain about.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

45. I would agree with you about the corporations

During the time I lived there, the percentage of tax burden borne by individuals and coporations was reversed.

I hated the way Phil Knight and Mark Helmstreet and the Hollywood Video guy were treated as heroes in the local media when they were such greedy, self-important pigs.

[Fla_Democrat]

53. Well, gosh

don't you think that's a little selfish of you? (sorry, couldn't resist :evilgrin: )

[YNGW]

41. Geez

The guy just said after paying expenses he barely has enough to get by on and that he can't afford any more taxes. It's not enough to live off one's income, you need to have your money earning money, too. People better be saving their money for a rainy day like TSE is doing. I know I am. I certainly don't expect Social Security to be around when I'm old enough to recieve it (not like that would be enough to live on anyway).

I'll never understand people who think they have the right to tell other people what they should do with the money they earned.

[YNGW]

42. Dupe

Oops!

[MissB]

31. I voted yes

So did dh.

We live in Multnomah County. As someone has already said, the county passed an increase last year. The County commissioner made some pretty boneheaded moves lately. One of them had to do with trying to pay county employees for a snow day, even though the county was closed that day. Maybe a week or two later, she said that there *could* be *some* refund of the new county tax if the state tax (Measure 30) passed. Could. Some. That didn't go over too well.

The cuts are supposed to be major, but already the Governor is telling the agencies to cut where they can. He does not want to call a special session of the Legislature. Most of the effects will be felt farther into the two-year budget year. Many school districts assumed that this measure would fail, so they decreased spending in anticipation of that. The most urgent (and obvious) item will be the Oregon Health Plan which I think may have to make some cuts in August.

If they do cut spending in the agencies and we do not see major problems, then it will be another win for the anti-tax people. I'd love to see the state cut spending without hurting the least fortunate amongst us, but I don't see that happening.

And I say that as a stay-at-home mom whose husband makes a bit more than $100k a year.

Someone else in this thread essentially asked if we put our money where our mouth is. The answer is yes. Dh and I will be giving more money to local charities because this measure failed. We will not give it to the state, however. The reluctance to give it to the state in this instance is only because of the realization that the local charities will need the money and giving it directly will have the most effect.

[YNGW]

37. I'm pleased to hear that.

>Someone else in this thread essentially asked if we put our money where our mouth is. The answer is yes. Dh and I will be giving more money to local charities because this measure failed. We will not give it to the state, however. The reluctance to give it to the state in this instance is only because of the realization that the local charities will need the money and giving it directly will have the most effect.

Your last line was very interesting. There are those here at DU who would argue that local (private) charities are not as cost effective as the government. I disagree with them. Bureaucracy's have a lot of waste where private charities tend to watch the dollar more closely and can provide more directly to the need at hand. I think you did the right thing.

I commend you for doing extra. My guess is there are many families just like you in the State who will pitch in and help where needed, whether it be monetarily and/or volunteering their time.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. What they really need to do is get rid of the damned kicker

For non-Oregonians, that's the legislatively mandated tax refund that is handed out if state tax receipts exceed the budget by 2%.

It's based on the right wing radio fantasy that tax money is "yours," even after you've paid it and received services from the government in the form of highways, schools, police, fire, health inspectors, etc. Hmm, I should try that at the store. "Oh, remember that $50 I paid you for a sweater? Well the money is mine, and you had a better year than expected, so I want a 2% refund." Yeah, right.

My income was close to the median for Oregon most years, and I got a whopping $85 dollars or so. Whoopeee--NOT.

I would have much rather foregone the double digit check every other year or so and seen the state build up a "rainy day fund." Keeping the kicker would have done the job.

But you might as well try to mandate a seven-day work week as try to repeal the kicker.

[MissB]

38. I whole-heartedly agree

Many people have taken to signing their kicker check over to the school districts.

How stupid is it to not have a rainy day fund?

[Muddleoftheroad]

47. Here's why

You have a state like Maryland that spends and spends and then assumes they can raise the taxes no matter what, even with a rainy day fund to allegedly cover things.

It was that attitude that brought them a damn GOP governor.

[MissB]

48. Oh, I think we're headed towards a GOP governor

I don't imagine that our current gov will run again. I'd be surprised if he did.

Depending on who the Republican's put forth, we may just have one in 2006. If they manage to put forth a moderate they would have a good chance.

Oregon is being forced to make cuts. There is still waste in Oregon state government, but I don't believe that it amounts to $800 million. Having worked for an agency in the past I know that there is waste. But the savings that would be realized from cleaning up even that one program within the agency would be rather small.

Prioritizing the spending should mean cuts. It'll be interesting to see where they happen exactly. And it'll be interesting to see the public's response to those cuts.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. By the way,

the triumph and continued advance of the anti-tax crazies was one reason (not the main one, but part of the list) why I didn't feel bad about leaving a state that I once thought of as my ideal place on earth.

So I move back to Minnesota and find the same kind of wingnuts at work here. I'm hoping that "General Winter," the first real Minnesota winter in several years after a string of unusually warm ones, drives all those fundamentalist right wingers back to Texas.

[depakid]

55. More hardship & economic decline brought to you by....

Dick Armey, C. Boyden Gray and the so called "Citizens for a Sound Economy". The state's major newspaper, The Oregonian, while paying lip service to Measure 30 (and always ready jump on sensational stories of pain and suffering) continues to repeat the meme "citizens for a sound economy" throughout all of their stories, without ever identifying who these people are or what their agenda is. Nary ever a mention of the fact that they are decidedly against a sound economy- at least if you believe actual economists, like Nobel prizewinner Joeseph Stiglitz.

I may be optimistic, but I think that if Oregonians knew that they were being manipulated by out of state interests- and this was made a central issue- repeated over and over (or at least as often as the dishonest meme is repeated) the results on ballot measures like this would be a lot different.