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CNN WEB MA high court rules same-sex couples entitled to MARRY!!!!!!!!

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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 11:52 AM
Original message
CNN WEB MA high court rules same-sex couples entitled to MARRY!!!!!!!!
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 11:53 AM by bearfartinthewoods


DETAILS TO COME
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. woohoo!
So this is a clarification of their previous decision?
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. to answer my own question
This is a response to the state Senate's request that the court rule on whether civil unions would be an appropriate remedy to the denial of equal rights.

See www.boston.com for an AP report
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
2. Woo Hoo!
more details when you get `em would be appreciated !!!

YES! :toast:
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. www.boston.com has details!
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. link
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/02/04/gay.marriage.ap/index.html

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AP) -- The Massachusetts high court ruled Wednesday that only full, equal marriage rights for gay couples -- rather than civil unions -- would be constitutional, erasing any doubts that the nation's first same-sex marriages could take place in the state beginning in mid-May. my bold

The court issued the opinion in response to a request from the state Senate about whether Vermont-style civil unions, which convey the state benefits of marriage -- but not the title -- would meet constitutional muster.

"The history of our nation has demonstrated that separate is seldom, if ever, equal," the four justices who ruled in favor of gay marriage wrote in the advisory opinion. A bill that would allow for civil unions, but falls short of marriage, makes for "unconstitutional, inferior, and discriminatory status for same-sex couples."

The much-anticipated opinion sets the stage for next Wednesday's constitutional convention, where the Legislature will consider an amendment that would legally define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. Without the opinion, Senate President Robert Travaglini had said the vote would be delayed.

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Hammie Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. Outstanding
They've overruled millenia of human customs regarding marriage and violated the separation of powers by commenting on pending legislation. If they could've only figured out how to work in their own band of storm troopers, they could have made it a hat trick.



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. try again, o! lover of the constitution
They've overruled millenia of human customs regarding marriage and violated the separation of powers by commenting on pending legislation.

(the point to which I am responding is emphasized)

The text of the Court's opinion, http://www.boston.com/news/specials/gay_marriage/sjc_020404/, begins (the bit that the wise person wants to know before blowing an opinion out is emphasized):

On February 3, 2004, the Justices submitted the following answer to a question propounded to them by the Senate.
I'm not seeing any violation of the separation of powers by the Court.

It is common for constitutions to provide for questions to be "referred" by the legislature (or executive) to a jurisdiction's highest court with inherent powers to interpreted and apply the constitution. The Canadian constitution contains just such a provision, under which the questions currently before the Supreme Court of Canada regarding same-sex marriage were in fact referred by the executive, in our case.

Here's what happened, again from the Court's opinion -- be sure to read the last paragraph I quote:

The undersigned Justices of the Supreme Judicial Court respectfully submit their answers to the question set forth in an order adopted by the Senate on December 11, 2003, and transmitted to the Justices on December 12, 2003. The order indicates that there is pending before the General Court a bill, Senate No. 2175, entitled "An Act relative to civil unions." A copy of the bill was transmitted with the order. As we describe more fully below, the bill adds G. L. c. 207A to the General Laws, which provides for the establishment of "civil unions" for same-sex "spouses," provided the individuals meet certain qualifications described in the bill.<1>

The order indicates that grave doubt exists as to the constitutionality of the bill if enacted into law and requests the opinions of the Justices on the following "important question of law":

"Does Senate, No. 2175, which prohibits same-sex couples from entering into marriage but allows them to form civil unions with all 'benefits, protections, rights and responsibilities' of marriage, comply with the equal protection and due process requirements of the Constitution of the Commonwealth and articles 1, 6, 7, 10, 12 and 16 of the Declaration of Rights?"<2>

Under Part II, c. 3, art. 2, of the Constitution of the Commonwealth, as amended by art. 85 of the Amendments, "<e>ach branch of the legislature, as well as the governor or the council, shall have authority to require the opinions of the justices of the supreme judicial court, upon important questions of law, and upon solemn occasions." "<A> solemn occasion exists 'when the Governor or either branch of the Legislature, having some action in view, has serious doubts as to their power and authority to take such action, under the Constitution, or under existing statutes.'" Answer of the Justices, 364 Mass. 838, 844 (1973), quoting Answer of the Justices, 148 Mass. 623, 626 (1889). The pending bill involves an important question of law and the Senate has indicated "grave doubt" as to its constitutionality. We therefore address the question. See Opinion of the Justices, 430 Mass. 1205, 1207 (2000).

Now, would anybody -- especially anybody who is such a devotee of constitution thingies as we know Hammie is -- want to be retracting his allegation that the Massachusetts Supreme Court is analogous to Nazis and fascists and thugs?


As for overruling "millenia <sic> of human customs" etc. ... well, so did those notions of equal protection and due process I guess, eh? You know: the notions in the constitution in question, which govern the constitutionality of stuff the legislature does, and which the Court here applied in rendering its opinion.

Is somebody suggesting that some pigs are, or oughta be, more equal than others? Funny how that's not what the constitution in question says.

I believe I was just saying yesterday how it often seems to me that some fans of constitutions are really just fans of the interpretations and bits of constitutions that serve their own interests ...

.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. what now? what happens next? more
The soonest a constitutional amendment could end up on the ballot would be 2006, meaning that until then, the high court's decision will be Massachusetts law no matter what is decided at the constitutional convention.

The Supreme Judicial Court ruled in November that same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry, and gave the Legislature six months to change state laws to make it happen.

But almost immediately, the vague wording of the ruling left lawmakers -- and advocates on both side of the issue -- uncertain if Vermont-style civil unions would satisfy the court's decision.

The state Senate asked for more guidance from the court and sought the advisory opinion, which was made public Wednesday morning when it was read into the Senate record.

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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. mid-May
it's a great time for weddings to begin with.... :D
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Rove's wildest wet dream has come true.
And I would have put this in LBN myself.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. it's in LBN, don't worry!
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Ah. Missed that. Thanks. nt
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. SCREW ROVE!!!!!! IT'S IN THE COURTS
that's the way it is supposed to happen and he can just fellate himself to death in joy if he wants.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I think Rove will be in for a disappointment
Edited on Wed Feb-04-04 12:22 PM by truthspeaker
He may think this is a winning issue but I predict it will only resonate with the fanatic wingnut base. Sure, if you poll Americans a majority will express opposition to gay marriage, but IMHO for most of them it is not an election issue.

Besides it's only a matter of time before Ann Coulter realizes that persecution of gays could easily extend to transgendered people. If the "social conservatives" push too hard on this they could lose one of their most loyal liars.
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truthspeaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Waits for society as we know it to collapse...
Hm, nothing's happening. Where are the pedophiles running loose in the streets? Where's the moral degradation? Where's the rain of fire and brimstone from on high?

Could it be that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson are wrong?!?
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veganwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. *happy dance*
and i really thought today was going to suck.
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Kathy in Cambridge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:19 PM
Response to Original message
15. Great news-proud of my state today!
:bounce:

:toast:
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Me too!
The Revolution continues right where it began. :)
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. great...
now bush and rove can wed and live happily ever after!!
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-04-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Congratulations, Massachusetts!
Feeling very proud for you all today.

A wee caution... don't ever think that any win is forever. Keep your eyes open for those who will try to chip away at your rights.

But for today... :toast:
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