Do people here honestly believe that things are going against the asshole-

[T Wolf]

in chief?

Frankly, I think that many Democrats, especially people on this site, are deluding themselves into thinking that the tide is turning against Bush* and his regime. It seems that many (most) are latching onto anything that can possibly be interpreted as good-for-us or bad-for-him as real indications that we will win in November.

So, there is a whisper about AWOL. There are one or two questions about 911. There are a few mentions about Iraq and the lies that put us there. The economy gets a couple of lines on the news. A small minority of Americans have heard about BBV. BFD!

Does anyone doubt that the scum GOP'ers will do anything to "win" the election in the fall? We have to recognize that the deck is so stacked to deal the repukes another four years as to make the "election" more of a farce than it was in 2000.

All I see is people who want to feel that they are at least fighting the good fight. But, unless more direct action is taken, it will have no effect on the final result. Only a fool plays in a rigged game. And only a complete fool plays by the rules in a rigged game.

Yet, practically everyone continues to waste time and effort in defending their candidate and attacking others, as if having the "right" nominee will magically send Shrub back to Texas. This especially applies to the candidates themselves. I will vote for the Democratic nominee because we cannot afford not to, not that it will make any difference. But none of the ones at the head of the pack have endeared themselves to me by attacking fellow Dems. All they are doing is writing Carl Rove's fall advertisements for him.

Wake up people. People seem to ignore the "Underground" part of Democratic Underground. And that way lies certain defeat.

[dweller]

1. you might want to edit your subject line

if you want anyone to read this for long.

on second thought, i just looked in GD for the rules, but hey 'ass' is everywhere..i guess it's okay now..
:D
dp

[Q]

2. I believe you're right...

...and we shouldn't fall for the line that the 'media is finally starting to report the truth' about the Bush* government. The media is PART of the lie and they're not about to give up their golden calf now.

[AlinPA]

8. Once its down to two, the media will go into full attack mode

on the Dem candidate. Rove will have a couple hundred million $ to start with.

[BigDaddyLove]

3. I do indeed feel that there is real reason to believe that Bush....

can and will be beaten in November.

Name one (truly) good thing he has done for this country since taking office.

There are certainly things that can be seen as 'good' for various special interest groups and the for the people he considers his base, but it's becoming more and more obvious that he is his own worst enemy with regard to the wishes and values that average, moderate Americans have.

Nothing he does is good for this country and people (not just DUers) can see it more and more plainly everyday, as evidenced by his lowest ever approval rating recently.

[Mistress Quickly]

4. the bush hasn't even started yet

he will begin campaigning soon, and then we will see what the weather is like.

Until then, it is like trying to do a 15 day forecast - right on some days, but wrong on most.







Did any of that make sense?
:shrug:

[BigDaddyLove]

5. True, but once he begins campaigning he can only.......

campaign on his record as President, and that record is absolutely dismal.

[Homer12]

6. Just becuase the GOP will do anything to "win"

Does not mean that they will win.

[matcom]

7. not only believe it - i am HEARING it every day!

Local RW radio is slamming him on a daily basis
Blair getting grilled in the UK
AWOL
fake 'investigation' committees appointed by Bush (pissed off people)
conservatives (note: TRUE Conservatives) are bullshit at his budget
conservatives pissed off about his immagration proposal
etc...
etc...
etc...

[Mistress Quickly]

9. They will all fall in line come election day.

n/t









on edit: sorry, feeling sorta pessimistic today. I wish non-DC insiders could do better in the primaries.

[snippy]

10. Day by day and voter by voter Bush continues to demonstrate his

Fecal Midas Touch. Everything he touches turns to shit. Will this be enough for him to lose in November? Who knows. But the trend is your friend and I like the trend.

Nearly every election featuring an incumbent comes down to a referendum on the incumbent. Depending on a variety of factors Bush may lose that referendum.

[Kolesar]

11. So what the hell are supposed to do, T Wolf?

I'd love to see your plan.

[T Wolf]

24. Your handle gives the clue,

and though extreme care has to be taken with any effort to remove the repukes because they do hold all the power (executive, legislative, judicial, military/police, media, you name it...), I do not think there are any limits on what tactics should be in play to DDT the Shrub.

A part of me would love to believe in the American system of free, participatory democracy. But I just do not see that happening. I have lived through too much and seen what the enemy does to grab and hold power. From Jack to Martin and Bobby and Paul, from all of the real scandals that have been ignored to the BS BJ-gate that crippled Bill Clinton, it is clear to me that we simply cannot go on as before.

REmember.

REcall in California.
REdistrict in Texas.
No REcount in Florida.
REpukes have no REspect for elections.

Why should we? To continue to try to fight (and I use the term fight with a large load of sarcasm) on their terms only insures our defeat. Do we look down on the colonial rebels who attacked the British from the shelter of the woods instead of meeting them in open, regimented combat? No. We applaud their ingenuity in recognizing that the old system favored the British and new methods and tactics were needed.

If we have not learned this by now, we are doomed.

[Kolesar]

25. you did hint "direct action" eom

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren Stuart]

13. Yes I honestly do

It's a thing called trust, once you got it, it's as solid as the biggest mountain, once you lose it, it ain't the same.

The steady drip, drip, drip of embarassing stories, the lies that pile up. The public remembers what happened to Clinton, and sees that Bush is getting a different treatment. The former cabinet members who come out and say the most devestating things about Bush, can't be explained by partisian bickering.

Bush himself is his own worst enemy, his admission that he dosn't read the papers only enforces a growing perception. The people in this country are not stupid, they see what's happening, and it should frighten them.

Twelve years ago Ross Perot railed against the $100 billion deficit, saying that if it went to $300 billion that this would be disaster. Four years ago we had a surplus. Today we have a half a Trillion dollar deficit, without counting the continuing Iraq costs.

Bush has issues.

[Lindacooks]

14. I think anger is the key

The media whores are finally starting to talk about voter anger. And I think there is a ton of it out there. Democrats, Independents and even some Repukes are furious at what Bush is doing, from lying about the war to stealing election 2000 to ruining the economy and losing 3 million jobs to spending like there's no tomorrow to running up the biggest deficit ever.

Rove has underestimated this anger, and I HOPE it will be Bush's undoing.

[TNOE]

15. Think you're wrong

I can definitely see the media turning against Bush* - and its only because the real people in power have allowed it to happen, its obvious the corporations are ready to cut him loose. I haven't heard "can anybody beat this "popular" president" or "is there any way this "popular" president can be defeated in weeks now. FINALLY they have stopped referring to him as "popular" - because the truth is out there that he is not. From the NH primary to last nights - the message is Americans (not just Democrats) are PISSED OFF - not just dissatisfied but PISSED OFF. He is not going to be able to escape the lies about going to war with Iraq - and only a miracle can save him from his foreknowledge of 9/11 and they know it. That story is so close to breaking - its a rising tidal wave. Especially with the Ellen Mariani lawsuit coming up - they know they can no longer protect him IMO. He's done, bet on it.

[Bandit]

16. When people talk about appointing independent commissions there is

trouble in paradise. There will be an independent commission appointed and where it goes no one knows.

[Misinformed01]

17. Yes, I do, and furthermore, I don't think the little

problem of "no jobs" is an Underground issue.

Truthfully, I think most people are somewhat fascinated by the AWOL issue...but, if they are out of work, and worried about rent, losing their house, and dinner...that they don't give a fat rat's ass about what that moron was doing in 1972.

People want jobs.

So, yes...I think if things don't improve..and I don't see how they are going to..he is out on his ass.

Think Hoover.

[Wendigo]

18. I hang around a computer gaming board

and it's pretty amazing to see the contortions the conservatives there are going through. Basically they don't like Bush, don't like his budget, don't have an answer to any of the corrupt dealings he's openly engaged in...but they're still going to vote for him, because they don't want a "tax-and-spend" Democrat.

[newyawker99]

27. Hi Wendigo!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[lancdem]

19. Bush's approval ratings are now in the high 40s

the lowest of his presidency, and that's no accident. And Dems are fighting back. Gore barely touched AWOL in 2000, and look what's happening now. They're pushing it - hard. This doesn't mean Bush is toast, but our chances are a helluva lot better than they were a few months ago.

[chromotone]

20. Interesting noise out of California...

I spoke with a relative a couple of weeks ago. Her husband is a neo-Con who listens to Rush, and she's a xenophobe. But we still converse, as long as politics doesn't enter into the conversation.

I was surprised by a comment she made. She wondered who I thought the Democratic nominee would be. I gave some kind of non-committal answer so as to not spark an argument. Then, out of the blue, she said "We are angry with Bush out here." I said (suppressing by shock), "Oh, really?" She said "Yes, he is despised in California, Arizona, and New Mexico for his recent proposal regarding immigrants. We (she, her husband, and the California voters) are totally pissed off!"

I can't attest to the factual content of her comments regarding the citizens of CA, AZ, & NM, but it was the FIRST time something negative about Bush came out of the mouths of this particular Freeperesque couple.

I hope it festers and grows.

[zbdent]

21. No, I don't believe that they are really going hard against him, but

the seeds are being sown. If there is fertile soil, they'll bloom.

I don't make superbowl predictions in July. I'm not stupid.

What I do have is a copy of some Bush-licking idjit who wrote a letter to the editor, saying that Bush was going to win in a landslide.

What I'm hoping for is that when the polls close, Bush has to worry about how he's going to protect himself once the "executive priviledge" is removed, because he's no longer the "executive".

That's when I would love to constantly play the Dean scream, prefaced with the phrase:

"Rush Limbaugh, what do you think of the election results?"

or

"Average Republican, how did your boy do?"

[Beam Me Up]

22. It is going to be an "interesting" and . . .

possibly "dangerous" year. You are right, T Wolf, to not underestimate the Neocons and their intention to remain in power. They didn't steal an election and do everything else they've done just to leave quietly should they be "voted" out of office.

ON THE OTHER HAND, there is a very real rising tide of anger at *Bush*. As post #20 points out, in California and the South West there are many conservatives who are very pissed off about *'s policies regarding illegal aliens. There IS, also, the economy and the lies about the war. Some people are waking up and smelling the *Bushit.

I also think there are things going on behind the scenes that we don't know anything about. Plame, the CIA, etc. In any case, what we are witnessing is a major social upheaval and it may be that the selection of 2004 will only be the beginning of something that even the neocons and the elites had not forseen. There are lots of players in this game.

[YNGW]

23. Spot On!

These "whispers, questions, innuendo, and lies" are all a distraction to get us off focus, that being:

**** Security & the Economy ****

Come November, swing voters will vote based upon two (2) things; how secure they feel and their wallets. Either the candidates address these issues to the satisfaction of the electorate, or they lose. Everything else is red-meat for political junkies who have already made up their minds anyway.

[Carl Spackler]

26. I agree - repubs will fall into line come election time

Regardless of how offended they are by the budget, by immigration reform, by even the war they will vote on Abortion and other morality issues, and will turn out.

[kid_nz]

28. I don't think we can afford to think we're not making headway...

That kind of despair will get us defeated in November for sure.

The more we're out there saying stuff, the more chance it is that other, more timid people, will know they're not alone. I've heard too many people say things like, "I'm too afraid to speak against the President for fear of being called unpatriotic." or worse, "for fear of the Patriot Act."

Yes, we have to think of different ways to reach people. Yes, we have to keep them focused. And we can't afford to let anyone forget each and every offense, misstep, lie, and criminal act of the administration's last three years. But spreading futility and doom are certainly not going to help.

I'm part of a group whose website is attempting to address the apathetic voter and the swing votes in a different way. It's not anarchy. But we are hoping it's persuasion and that it will make people think.

Maybe this is what you mean. Maybe this is peanuts compared to what you mean. But at least it's something...