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Cush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:41 PM
Original message
ABC News is talking about AWOL
on now, only 4 years too late
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Turnipseed..
has backtracked.
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. I'd be asking Turnipseed why he LIED through his teeth to Newsweek in 2000
That is NOT what he told Newsweek in 2000. He told them they could find absolute NO record of Bush showing up and doing his time in the ANG after being transfered from Texas.

He either got a death threat or a big ass check.

David
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Cush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. its over
pretty lame and tried to spin it for Bush
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. They've just..
neutralized the issue. We probably won't be hearing about it again this election cycle.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. What do you mean?
What did they say?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. said he reported 19 times!
SHOW me the record!!!!
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. There has to be a record
As an X-Army Personnel Specialist I know there has to be a record of Bush's attendance. If there is anything the military is good at it is paperwork in triplicate. I spent 2 years on active duty and had to attend summer training the year after. I wonder what would have happened if I would have failed to show up for training? Leavenworth perhaps!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. no doubt since your name was not bush.....
welcome to DU doc03.... and Peace.


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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Well, for one thing,
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 06:58 PM by girl gone mad
now Turnipseed is saying he really can't remember either way. For another, they said Bush's friends at the time remember him going.
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. yup
ended up with saying a couple of his pals remember him leaving on weekends to go to guard duty. More likely going for a lost weekend.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. find those people
get them to say it on the air

put them on the spot

it really is amazing the lengths to which the media goes to defend him.

just think back to when they took ANY old thing about Clinton, then ran with it forever, regardless as to its veracity.

like, say, Jeff Gerth
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Pathwalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. (Insert expletive of your choice here)!!!!!!!!
They COVERED HIS ASS!!!! They spinned it as though this charge is totally false!!! :grr:
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. A couple of his "pals"??
This is evidence? Check BOSSHOG's thread - those vets did not get a couple of their "pals" to vouch for them - they have RECORDS.
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Timefortruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. Exactly, the fact that he told people that he was going in for duty
may only mean that he was AWOL from the Guard and the campaign. It certainly doesn't mean he reported for duty.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. Keep On Pounding!!
Democrats need to keep up the heat on the AWOL issue!
:bounce:

goclark
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MoonAndSun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why are we surprised that ABC is covering for bush*?
wasn't it Jennings who said it was not factual? Why would they make it seem like it was anything else. For those who thought Jennings did us a favor by bringing this up, I think this has proved them wrong, IMHO.
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DemoTex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. The one-two punch: AWOL (POW!) ... DRUGS AND ALCOHOL (POW!)
Keep 'em on the ropes. When they "answer" AWOL, hit 'em with DRUGS AND ALCOHOL (driving record, arrest record, missed flight physical, etc). When they answer DRUGS AND ALCOHOL (with "found Jesus!") hit 'em with AWOL. Keep them way off balance. Ultimately, the WMD lies and the economy will be the KO. But don't give Bu$h a pass on AWOL and his DRUG/ALCOHOL use.
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. ....
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demgrrrll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. The Turnipseed turnaround is interesting. The quotes from him I have
seen in the past were along the lines of he never saw him
at any time and he thought he would remember if he had seen him. He still isn't saying that he did see him, just
that he doesn't remember. I would love to know who gets to
these folks and what they say to them.
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
16. white washed
The honorable discharge is the main talking point, as I have said until I am blue in the face.
Here:
I send this out every time it comes up on the web. Maybe somewhere it will
get some traction. Feel free to use any or all of this, with or without
attribution.

At the time I joined the guard (1963), my unit was in dire need of pilots.
The 117th Tactical Recon Wing and the 106th Tac Recon Squadron were
recalled to active duty in October 1961 during the Berlin Crisis.
The units were relieved from active duty in August 1962.
Many of the pilots elected to remain on active duty and make a career
of the Air Force.

I heard about their pilot training program and just walked in off the
street. I took a 4 hour Air Force Officer Qualification Test (AFOQT,
basically the old Stanine general intelligence test) and another four hour
Flight Aptitude test. I passed both, although I don't remember what a
passing grade was. I do remember that 8 or 10 of us were taking the tests
and only 2 of us passed. I also took and passed a flight physical with the
base flight surgeon. You DO NOT take a flight physical with your
"personal" physician.

While my test papers and applications were
forwarded to National Guard Bureau in Washington for processing and
approval, the FBI ran a security check on me. A few weeks later I was
notified that all preparations were complete and that I could present myself
at the monthly drill week-end for swearing in with a temporary commission as
a 2nd Lt. No boot camp, no nuthin'. The temporary commission was to become
permanent upon my successful completion of pilot training.

A few months later, my unit secured a slot for me in a USAF pilot training
class. It was a 55 week program. When I was awarded my wings, I returned
to Birmingham, AL (106th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, 117th Wing,
Alabama Air National Guard) and 90 days of active-duty-for-training
to check out in our unit's aircraft, the RF-84/F. I then completed my 6
year obligation and was honorably discharged with the rank of Captain.
Massey Lambard
Foley, AL

AWOL? Deserter? Here are the FACTS.

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm#802.%20ART.%202.%20PERSONS%20SUBJECT%20TO%20THIS%20CHAPTER

802. ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER
(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in
the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the
Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.

Bush was not in Federal Service, thus not subject to UCMJ, and therefore not
AWOL or a deserter under UCMJ.

However, from the Texas Code of Military Justice, which Bush "may have
been" (see below) subject to says:
Acts 1987, 70th Leg., ch. 147, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1987. § 432.130. Desertion
(a) A member of the state military forces is guilty of desertion if the
member:
(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or
place of duty with intent to remain away permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid
hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the state military forces,
enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another of the state
military forces, or in one of the armed forces of the United States, without
fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated.
(b) A commissioned officer of the state military forces who, after tender of
his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or
proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away permanently is
guilty of desertion.
(c) A person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be
punished as a court-martial directs.

Bush was certainly in violation of one or more of these sections, but notice
the law was passed in 1987, well after he was out of the guard. So far, I
can find no information as to what the law was when Bush was in the TANG.


I was a pilot in the ALAANG 1963-1972. I can find no documentation of Alaba
ma military regulations on the web, but here's what I know to be true from
personal experience:

When I joined the guard to be trained as a pilot I signed an agreement, a
"contract" if you will. Upon successful completion of USAF pilot training,
I was committed for six years of service in the Alabama Air National Guard
(ALAANG). Pilot training lasted a little over a year, so my basic
obligation was for seven years.

If I had done exactly the same thing Bush did, skipped out and not shown up
for required drills and Flight Training Periods (FTPs)
1. I would have been located/contacted (if possible) by a superior officer
on an "unofficial" level and asked about my absence. In reality, it would
have been unthinkable for me or any of my squadron-mates to just drop out of
sight without any prior communication with my squadron or wing as to a
reason for this.
2. If I had no satisfactory "unofficial" explanation I would be required to
meet with an evaluation board of senior officers to explain my actions. If
necessary, I would have been taken into custody by military police.
3. Now it gets "official" If the board found I had no acceptable excuse,
they could offer three options.
a. I could make up the missed periods, possibly by extending my
obligation.
b. If I was unwilling to do this, I could have been assigned to
"involuntary active duty" (essentially "drafted"), probably into the Army,
as a private, for a period not to exceed the balance of my obligation. At
the time, that was a ticket straight to Viet Nam.
c. If I refused, I could be sent to jail for the balance of my obligation,
probably to Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary.

You can see why it was in my best interest to show up each and every time
with a shine on my shoes and a smile on my face. That Bush was able to
shirk his obligation with absolutely no penalty angers me. It was wrong,
and he should have paid. But he didn't. He had the right connections and
he got off scot free. Another reason this was "papered over" is that, had
it been publicized, his commanding officers would have been seen as guilty
of dereliction of duty in not dealing with the situation according to
established military regulations.

Two more points:
1. Bush was mustered out as a 1st Lt. As a normal matter of course, just
serving the necessary time-in-grade and having no major black marks in their
records, all National Guard pilots were awarded the rank of Captain a year
prior to completing their 6 year obligation. That Bush did not speaks
volumes and should have been a "red flag".
2. In spite of Bush's flagrant disregard/violation of military regulations,
he received an Honorable Discharge (which cheapens mine and the
accomplishments of all who have received one). This is one of the strongest
"talking points" used by his supporters.

We can bemoan the fact, and wail and gnash our teeth, but there's no way
(that I know of) that this wrong can be righted. I won't "get over it", but
I can move on. We can publicize this as much as possible, but he will never
be brought up on criminal charges over it. Periodically someone discovers
www.awolbush.com for the first time and thinks "Aha!". Well, I'm glad you
learned about it. Go tell others, for whatever that's worth. But don't
think you will ever see Bush in a court of law, military or civilian,
because of this. The only small, faint hope we have is the court of public
opinion.

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msanger Donating Member (737 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
19. he was missing for a long time - then showed up
I think the 19 times he reported was AFTER he was missing for a long time.

And if his friends say he took off weekends to go to the Guard, do we think he went to the Guard (when nobody remembers seeing him) or was he off drinking and drugging.

Not that I have anything against drinking and drugging, just not when you are supposed to be serving.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. I am beginning to think this has "legs"
I had given up on this story - but the way the pubbies are responding to this makes me think they are truly worried that this is going to blow up in Shrub's face. They keep throwing out the red herring about NG service being honorable - but I have heard no one say it wasn't. Pass the popcorn.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
23. He was AWOL after a period of good service.
The ABC coverage was not favorable to Bush. It stated clearly that he was given special treatment in getting into the Guard in the first place. The AWOL came after he served in the TX Guard for a few years. He simply failed to show up when his duty was transferred to Alabama. If Bush showed up for his drills in AL, he should have copies of his evaluations from that period, but he DOESN'T. He stopped showing up and phone calls were made to get him a honorable discharge.
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