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Clybourn: Gore made mistake: "Let AWOL ride. WE won't let it ride!"

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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:49 PM
Original message
Clybourn: Gore made mistake: "Let AWOL ride. WE won't let it ride!"
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 04:49 PM by buycitgo
Con. Clybourn just said that Al Gore made a mistake by NOT taking it to the chimp last time..."he let it ride. WE'RE not going to let it ride!"

Yeah, baby

just said it on Xfire
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sweet! Hey Chimpy!
Your free ride is over you douche!
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Toast him!
I want to see him SWEAT
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madmax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. That was Gore's biggest and most fatal mistake
He let a lot of things ride that he should have spoken out immediately and put straight.

We didn't have DU back then - now we'll clobber them with TRUTH!

:mad:
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lancdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Gore was a nice guy
who played by the rules, while his opponents didn't. And look where it got him - and us.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yup. I Think He Just Didn't Want to Sling that Kind of Mud
even if it was true, he wanted to stay away from there...
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glarius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Those are my thoughts too...He was a genuinely nice person who was
portrayed by the "liberal" media as a stiff, boastful liar....Remember how they went on and on with the lie that he claimed to have invented the internet? ..... And they portrayed lying George as friendly and straightforward!....:puke:
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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I think Gore has looked back
and has determined he made plenty of mistakes -- just by being civil and courteous.

I read somewhere that Dukakis is speaking out as well, about not taking Bush to task for his lies and letting Bush slide.

He commented that Bush Sr. had problems reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, but he let it slide. One of his biggest regrets.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. I remember that. Dukakis said his biggest mistake was not fighting back.
And they played dirty with him, too. So dirty that the dreadful Lee Atwater, while on his deathbed, felt compelled to call Dukakis and apologize. Now why would someone near death feel urged to apologize to someone? You don't make amends to someone when you're on your deathbed if you spit off his bridge or gave him a paper cut. You scramble to make amends if you did something you won't be able to answer for at the Pearly Gates.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. I don't know if he called Dukakis....doubt it.....but he DID call.....q
his mentor, Ed Rollins.

I have Rollins' book (got it for a buck)

he goes into great detail WRT Atwater's death, cause Atwater called HIM to exorcise his myriad demons.

very interesting chapter that was

maybe I'll reread the section on Atwater, Willy Horton, and the Bush family.

he paints an exTREMEly unflattering portrait of the WORST of them all, too.....Big Fat Bug-eyed Bar.

she is ONE mean badger, with a memory as deep as a Cray.

PLUS, there's a fantastic picture of her and Rollins, at a WH fete, in which she looks like she's about to bite his head off!

not kidding....I scanned it once, then posted it somewhere.

think I'll do it again....it's a fanTASTIC picture!

she looks like a rabid pit bull......all neck and jaw, thrusted out toward Rollins....compelling.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. here it is
"Too bad this book's 96 release was too soon to receive much boost from the internet. Would have liked to read of author Rollin's take on the Monica/Clinton sex scandal. Rollins is observant enough to mention qualities of public figures that are seldom mentioned (such as Barbara Bush's mean-spiritedness)."

Bare Knuckles and Back Rooms: My Life in American Politics


http://www.101investing.com/products/ASIN0553067311.php
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marigold20 Donating Member (802 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. Does anyone remember a poll taken in 2000 re Gore & *
I knew Bush's spinmeisters were really good when I heard that a poll showed that more Americans believed Bush served in Vietnam than Gore! It was just too much. At the very least, this AWOL story may enlighten a few more people about the Bush service record.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. We're gonna win SC. I KNOW IT.
AWOL is NOT going to go over well in this state.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Begala doing a great job flogging the AWOL story
Novakula plugging away diligently to change the subject.

Ha! I think this one has legs.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. Legs? Baby, it's a Rockette!
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. It's Ann Miller time!
;-)
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
42. It does!
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cavebat2000 Donating Member (347 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. no offense but one more reason why im not voting for edwards
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
10. made mistake
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 05:00 PM by buycitgo
posting.....hold on
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
11. Novak said this:
Are you serious about campaigning against a man who flew fighter jets AND got an honorable discharge?

Clybourn said that the point was that he was MISSING for a year of his duty, and that THEY weren't going to make an issue of it....the Washington POST would make it an issue.

Before making the "Gore let it ride" comment, he mentioned the Globe article, saying that it had gone into great detail looking into dumbo's service record.

they went to another topic fairly abruptly, but Novak made NO attempt at a comeback. There wasn't really anything he could say.

He DID reiterate the fascistos only two possible defenses, weak as a newborn panda as they are:

1) he flew FIGHTER jet planes

2) he "earned" an honorable discharge

can't WAIT until those records start to become scrutinized in the mainstream media to the extent they have been by the likes of Messrs. Heldt and Rogers

can't WAIT!!!

AABB!!!Baby!
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salin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. weren't those "fighter planes" - obsolete for combat?
I thought that I read that he was trained in planes that were no longer being used in Vietnam (or no new ones had been ordered, so that they would become obsolete) - further protecting him (even from the confines of the champaign unit) from ever being likely to be sent to Vietnam.

Keep pumping that line Novak - and we will play it back like the silver spoon that the particular planes he flew were... we ain't no fortunate son....
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. that's absolutely right...F102s were decommissioned for VN combat
possibly BEFORE he even began flight training.

I found a link specifically coverning that: date he started flight training, the exact date F102s stopped flying in Viet Nam

and don't forget.....he marked the box where he said he did NOT want to go overseas to serve.

IIRC, it was said that he either marked the wrong box, or "forgot," and someone else filled in the "wrong box" FOR him!

who has details on that?

that little tidbit is pretty nasty to explain in itself

love to see him try.
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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. And that's why they trained him on the F102's...
They were obsolete!
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nannygoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Remember when * incorrectly filled out another form for jury duty
and may have committed perjury?
http://dir.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/05/jury_duty/index.html

* is a complete and utter idiot!
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Let's examine the "fighters" he flew in
wasn't the F-102 a crappy plane by the late 60's? Certainly not any of the advanced fighters of the time. They taught him how to fly a plane so that he could say he knew how some time in the future.
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Ivote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Who Else
was in the TANG with him and where are they now?
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
18. you'll LOVE this, from one of Luciferanne's ignoramus posters:
"As I understand it, The President was flying F-102's (hard to master), applied for Viet Nam duty, but was rejected because F-102's were not deployed there, and retraining him was not in the cardsdue to length of commitment."

well, you 'understand' it comletely WRONG, you moran!

if there's ANYthing that coward DIDN/t do, it was APPLY for service in Viet Nam.

more on this

oh....check this out for a laugh......her poor, idiotic flock is trying to justify the goons' going AWOL, and somehow twist it back on dems for being so unpatriotic for bringing it up.

quite a hoot

http://www.lucianne.com/threads22.asp?artnum=111029
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. if you loved the above, I don't know WHAT you'll think about THIS!
Edited on Tue Feb-03-04 05:30 PM by buycitgo
also from Lucianne

"McAwful is the biggest puke on the planet. I'd like to see President Bush sue the pants off him. And I'd like to see some intrepid reporter as McAwful how someone who's supposedly gone AWOL gets an Honorable Discharge."

PLEASE, PLEASE

DO SUE him!

PLEASE!
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eek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. bumper stickers, LTTE, Tshirts etc
Gotta turn aWol into a brand name.

Strike while the iron's hot; time to Dixie Chick him.
And don't forget to refer to yourself as the Patriotic American you are!
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. you can't have AWOL
without the W!
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. THAT is completely brilliant! GREAT line!
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. wish I could remember where I saw it.....might've been here
oops.....I got it wrong, in my PSD

it's even better:

"You can't spell AWOL without the W!"

The Hong Kong based Blue Box Toys company announced plans to distribute a one-foot-tall GI Joe doll of the president called "Elite Force Aviator: George W. Bush-- U.S. President and Naval Aviator." A spokesperson for the company commented, "We are excited to release this new doll, especially after the marketing department killed plans for a 'National Guard Deserter-- you can't spell AWOL without a Dubya' childrens toy."

http://newfunny.com/quips/?page=2

this has been around since at least last August!

time to start hyping it?
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. lots and lots and lots
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. here's where I saw it first, FWIW
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. hahahahaha...that is HILARIOUS!!!
.
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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 05:43 PM
Response to Original message
22. Kit Bond, sen. MO
"offended by wild, slanderous things said by Terry McAuliffe"

he "wouldn't denigrate national guard service"

hahahahaha! Bond served in.......National Guard! another chicken hawk bawk bawk bawk!!

he used one of the only TWO possible defenses....just watch

"he earned an honorable discharge"

didn't go so far as to say he "completed his duty," though....cause he DIDNT!



and, of COURSE, toolshill MSNBC Lester asks NO follow up about it. just lets him call McAuliffe a SLANDERER

what, exactly, did he SAY to slander that person?

BTW, is accusing someone of slander.......slander?
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Ask him to define "earned"
That honorable discharge seems to be another favor to Bush's VIP daddy. If Bush were to actually "earn" it, wouldn't he have to show up?
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lolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
27. If they don't like it . . .
The answer is simple. Just release all the info AWOL has on his whereabouts for those 18 months. If he has proof, why doesn't he produce it?

If it is slander, why doesn't he sue?

Yeah, right.
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Rockholm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
29. What a Beautiful moment!
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
34. Gore made a few mistakes
primarily, the biggest being not standing up to a bully and not supporting those who did stand up to him--namely the Black caucus.

Never ever let that happen again. Gore had it all over Bush but did not understand his strength for the good of the country. He was too reticent. Was not willing to take the risk after the SCOTUS propelled Bush into the White House, illegally.


I like Gore and I like his wonderful family. He has been forceful in the past few months, but it is too little too late.

This kind of enabling will not save us from the likes of a fascist leaning, evil Bush, or a fascist ideology that would follow him, or, excuse me, rather lead him. He is really not leading anyone, and he knows it and we know it. He is merely the boy Dauphine.

We do NOT need people who are scared to make a move. They do NOT do us any favors with the cautionary approach.

They, if we support them, will give us more of the same, and frankly, I am fed up with them all who are not willing to challenge the quite evident fact that Bush was AWOL from his own military duty and is now acting as if he is the ultimate commander in chief, strutting about in costume as if he were a member of the military yet.



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buycitgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I really think Gore's reluctance to fight back had a lot to do with......
the freaking media.

I don't think he was prepared for the vicious attacks he suffered as soon as he came out from under the womb-like environment of the Vicepresidency

he had it pretty easy for eight years, especially considering the vehemence of the attacks on WJC

he had no reason to expect the press to turn on him the way it did.

I don't think he ever recovered, and, lacking a core of advisers the likes of Carville, Begala, and, yes, Stephanopoulos, they didn't realize how important it was to fight back HARD, within the same news cycle, and keep the echo chamber effect to a minimum

not saying that in defense, cause he DID blow it in Fla by failing to embrace the fight of the disenfranchised there. but, again, he was taken aback by the amazing vituperation of the press, who screamed at every turn that he was trying to STEAL the election, while, at the same time, they ignored the fact that the pugs were doing exACTLY that.

he also screwed up BIGTIME in his strategic decision to NOT call for a statewide recount

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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Someday we may find out why.
Maybe .

Thanks for that input. I really do feel some compassion for Gore,and actually love him a lot, but, as much as I do, I do not think that any candidate challenging Bush in today's climate, should ever, ever let this same thing happen again.

There is NOTHING about Bush that deserves the slightest bit of respect or, heavens forbid, awe. Bush is evil, greedy, ruthless , ignorant and stupid and has not the foggiest idea of what is really going on under his forced tutelage, which, actually, only he believes he is tutelaging anyone.!!!

`` He is truly stupid , base and uninformed, caring only , it seems, for the "role" he must play and learn to play convincingly--and loving that part of it--ie. landing on the USS Lincoln all dressed up like the combat pilot with the very evident "codpiece", he fantasizes he is. That is his idea of "foreign policy" and "leadership" HIs own appearance all dressed up in costume--whether it be appropriate or not. Or even truthful and representative. I mean, can anyone imagine Jimmy Carter performing this type of a stunt?



The Bush cabal is evil, wicked, ruthless and without any sense of morals or ethics.

They will stomp on anyone who gets in their way. Their primary concern seems to concentrate on getting more wealth into the coiffures of their, already fabulously rich buddies. For if they help out their buddies, they will, certainly be "taken care of"by those same buddies once they leave office, or even perhpas while they are in office.

That is the Bush claim to fame amongst that crowd who will always contribute millions to the next Bush campaign for the pay back presidency who will bend over backwards to accomodate them, no matter what suffering the people of the country must endure.




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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-03-04 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
39. here
I send this out every time it comes up on the web. Maybe somewhere it will
get some traction. Feel free to use any or all of this, with or without
attribution.

At the time I joined the guard (1963), my unit was in dire need of pilots.
The 117th Tactical Recon Wing and the 106th Tac Recon Squadron were
recalled to active duty in October 1961 during the Berlin Crisis.
The units were relieved from active duty in August 1962.
Many of the pilots elected to remain on active duty and make a career
of the Air Force.

I heard about their pilot training program and just walked in off the
street. I took a 4 hour Air Force Officer Qualification Test (AFOQT,
basically the old Stanine general intelligence test) and another four hour
Flight Aptitude test. I passed both, although I don't remember what a
passing grade was. I do remember that 8 or 10 of us were taking the tests
and only 2 of us passed. I also took and passed a flight physical with the
base flight surgeon. You DO NOT take a flight physical with your
"personal" physician.

While my test papers and applications were
forwarded to National Guard Bureau in Washington for processing and
approval, the FBI ran a security check on me. A few weeks later I was
notified that all preparations were complete and that I could present myself
at the monthly drill week-end for swearing in with a temporary commission as
a 2nd Lt. No boot camp, no nuthin'. The temporary commission was to become
permanent upon my successful completion of pilot training.

A few months later, my unit secured a slot for me in a USAF pilot training
class. It was a 55 week program. When I was awarded my wings, I returned
to Birmingham, AL (106th Tactical Reconnaissance Squadron, 117th Wing,
Alabama Air National Guard) and 90 days of active-duty-for-training
to check out in our unit's aircraft, the RF-84/F. I then completed my 6
year obligation and was honorably discharged with the rank of Captain.
Massey Lambard
Foley, AL

AWOL? Deserter? Here are the FACTS.

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/ucmj.htm#802.%20ART.%202.%20PERSONS%20SUBJECT%20TO%20THIS%20CHAPTER

802. ART. 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER
(3) Members of a reserve component while on inactive-duty training, but in
the case of members of the Army National Guard of the United States or the
Air National Guard of the United States only when in Federal Service.

Bush was not in Federal Service, thus not subject to UCMJ, and therefore not
AWOL or a deserter under UCMJ.

However, from the Texas Code of Military Justice, which Bush "may have
been" (see below) subject to says:
Acts 1987, 70th Leg., ch. 147, § 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1987. § 432.130. Desertion
(a) A member of the state military forces is guilty of desertion if the
member:
(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or
place of duty with intent to remain away permanently;
(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid
hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or
(3) without being regularly separated from one of the state military forces,
enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another of the state
military forces, or in one of the armed forces of the United States, without
fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated.
(b) A commissioned officer of the state military forces who, after tender of
his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or
proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away permanently is
guilty of desertion.
(c) A person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be
punished as a court-martial directs.

Bush was certainly in violation of one or more of these sections, but notice
the law was passed in 1987, well after he was out of the guard. So far, I
can find no information as to what the law was when Bush was in the TANG.


I was a pilot in the ALAANG 1963-1972. I can find no documentation of Alaba
ma military regulations on the web, but here's what I know to be true from
personal experience:

When I joined the guard to be trained as a pilot I signed an agreement, a
"contract" if you will. Upon successful completion of USAF pilot training,
I was committed for six years of service in the Alabama Air National Guard
(ALAANG). Pilot training lasted a little over a year, so my basic
obligation was for seven years.

If I had done exactly the same thing Bush did, skipped out and not shown up
for required drills and Flight Training Periods (FTPs)
1. I would have been located/contacted (if possible) by a superior officer
on an "unofficial" level and asked about my absence. In reality, it would
have been unthinkable for me or any of my squadron-mates to just drop out of
sight without any prior communication with my squadron or wing as to a
reason for this.
2. If I had no satisfactory "unofficial" explanation I would be required to
meet with an evaluation board of senior officers to explain my actions. If
necessary, I would have been taken into custody by military police.
3. Now it gets "official" If the board found I had no acceptable excuse,
they could offer three options.
a. I could make up the missed periods, possibly by extending my
obligation.
b. If I was unwilling to do this, I could have been assigned to
"involuntary active duty" (essentially "drafted"), probably into the Army,
as a private, for a period not to exceed the balance of my obligation. At
the time, that was a ticket straight to Viet Nam.
c. If I refused, I could be sent to jail for the balance of my obligation,
probably to Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary.

You can see why it was in my best interest to show up each and every time
with a shine on my shoes and a smile on my face. That Bush was able to
shirk his obligation with absolutely no penalty angers me. It was wrong,
and he should have paid. But he didn't. He had the right connections and
he got off scot free. Another reason this was "papered over" is that, had
it been publicized, his commanding officers would have been seen as guilty
of dereliction of duty in not dealing with the situation according to
established military regulations.

Two more points:
1. Bush was mustered out as a 1st Lt. As a normal matter of course, just
serving the necessary time-in-grade and having no major black marks in their
records, all National Guard pilots were awarded the rank of Captain a year
prior to completing their 6 year obligation. That Bush did not speaks
volumes and should have been a "red flag".
2. In spite of Bush's flagrant disregard/violation of military regulations,
he received an Honorable Discharge (which cheapens mine and the
accomplishments of all who have received one). This is one of the strongest
"talking points" used by his supporters.

We can bemoan the fact, and wail and gnash our teeth, but there's no way
(that I know of) that this wrong can be righted. I won't "get over it", but
I can move on. We can publicize this as much as possible, but he will never
be brought up on criminal charges over it. Periodically someone discovers
www.awolbush.com for the first time and thinks "Aha!". Well, I'm glad you
learned about it. Go tell others, for whatever that's worth. But don't
think you will ever see Bush in a court of law, military or civilian,
because of this. The only small, faint hope we have is the court of public
opinion.

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