Wolf asks: Dems mentioning AWOL=Dirty Politics?

[buycitgo]

He just asked if the Dems' bringing up dumbo's "service" in the TANG is dirty dirty dirty politics.

OK, he only said it once, but you had to have HEARD the SNEERING, derisive tone he used; oozing with disapproval

I can't wait to see how he treats it.

HOWEVER, there's a new man on the WashPost beat who is asking any and all for relevant links on AWOL

his name is dan froomkin....email him here, if you have anything you think is new/unusual

[e-mail]


from another site...urgent: Does anyone have a URL for the archived TT original threads on AWOL? The Washington Post's new eagle-eyed WH watchdog is asking for URLS for tomorrow's edition. I thought he might like to see the original work many of us participated in, as Marty found the FOIA documents and we worked to break the story.

And can someone post this info over there on TT?

Here's the URL for Froomkin's page.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/politics/administration/whbriefing/



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[45th Med]

1. Hell no!

Bush's service record is DEPLORABLE!

Daddy Bush made sure his little future POTUS wouldn't have to be shot at, or GOD FORBID DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY!

[0007]

17. Daddy Bush lied about how he received the Silver Star...

so why not lie to keep his little boy with the Silver Spoon from going to war and going to jail cocaine?

[45th Med]

24. In all fairness.....

Poppa Bush did earn his SS. He was in a pretty big shootup, things are very confusing and crazy under fire....frankly, I don't have a problem with the way he handled his aircraft. Whether or not he warned his crew to bail out, it is something he will have to live with for the rest of his life.

[buycitgo]

26. how does one earn a silver star by getting shot down, THEN

bailing out on your crew, so that ALL DIE?

[45th Med]

34. Like I said,

Things are crazy and confusing in combat, trust me, I've been there. A number of times, I was busy in the back of my chopper and didn't hear things being said to me by the commander or crew chief.

We can't second guess things that happen in combat sometimes. From what I heard, Bush announced several times for the crew to bail out. In the confusion, he might have left the the radio on the network instead of the intercom or forgot to switch over to the intercom. The radio could have been damaged. He also said he yelled to them from his seat through his armor plated seat, has anyone ever been in an aircraft while it was on fire or having engine trouble? I have. Trust me, you notice everything, every sound, every vibration, every smell when you're flying. Things are loud, crazy and confusing.

I was in a Blackhawk when an engine digested some foreign object and caught fire......no chutes......but no one had to tell me to GTFO when we hit the ground. As a former service member, I can't second guess what happened to Bush on that day.

[0007]

39. Accordingly, Mierzejewski stated that he witnessed "puff of smoke" emerge

from the plane and then quickly dissipate. The decorated WW II veteran asserted that no more smoke was visible, that Bush's Avenger was never on fire" and that "no smoke came out of his cockpit when he opened his canopy to bail out. "Only one man exited the Barbara and that was Bush.

Airman Thomas R. Kenne, pilot from another carrier, who had been picked by the Finback a few days after Bush, was also quoted as being surprised to hear about an alleged fire on board the Avenger, "Did he say that?

[45th Med]

45. How can a third party witness know anything about the state of Bush's

aircraft? I am aware of the Avenger's service record. They have self sealing fuel tanks and they are NEARLY impossible to catch fire....HOWEVER, the engine could have been on fire with fuel still pumping into it. The control surfaces could have been damaged. The hydraulics could have been damaged....any of a number of things could have been wrong with the airplane that could have made landing or recovery impossible. The only alternative to bailing out is ditching in the sea......something just as dangerous and could have killed everyone on board.

Shit happens in war. You do a grave dis-service to those who have died in combat to play the guessing game with incidents that happen in combat.

IMHO, the commander should always be the last to go. Back in WW2, there was no written rule that the Co was last out, it was something left up to the crew. They have to pay attention, hear the command to bail out and GTFO (get the f#ck out).

When you take the oath to serve your country, you either learn RESPONSIBILITY or you die or get someone else killed. You have to take care of the man on the right and the left and in turn, they have to take care of you. But in the end, no one is going to take care of you but yourself. It's too easy to be an armchair soldier, second guessing someone elses actions.....only thing that matters is your own.

[buycitgo]

47. that's all fine and good, but WHY are you defending him so fiercely?

you seem to have quite the knowledge of such aircraft.

have you read the very detailed testimony of those who were there?

the stuff linked by 0007 represents just a small fragment of what has been told by others.

I understand very well your POV regarding personal combat circumstances, but, again you seem to be VERY happy to play the devil's advocate in this situation.

how do you feel about the missing days of GHWB's cowardly son, and his refusal to end all speculation by releasing his military records?

[45th Med]

49. There is no dispute that Bush was AWOL

I never had a problem with GHW Bush's presidency. We truly liberated Kuwait, I was there. We got the job done and we GTFO. He ditched his constituency by raising taxes and he was duly voted out of office.

Now, on to GW Bush.

This document shows that Bush cleared his training base and was performing equivalent duty in Alabama. Whether or not he checked into his new base and was performing any actual duties or not is the real mystery.



Now, this document shows that Bush was grounded from flight status for refusing to take a medical examination. Medical exams are a coke fiends worst enemy, lol. He was assigned to alternate duties in Denver Colorado but IIRC, he didn't show up....it was his last 6 weeks of his service obligation. A subsequent report shows that he didn't satisfactorily complete his military obligations.

[45th Med]

51. BTW, para 2-10, AFM 35-13 is administrative reassignment to ORS

Denver, Co.

[buycitgo]

40. lots of other stories out there about what happened

including some VERY unflattering ones.

given the history of that family, if I had to choose, I'd pick the one in which he abandons his crew.

neither one of us was there....

who you going to believe?

you'll be standing in pretty good staid to remember this little encomium: NEVER, EVER believe a Bush.

[0007]

41. Mierzejewski stated that he witnessed a puff of smoke "emerge

from the plane and then quickly dissipate. The decorated WW II veteran asserted that no more smoke was visible, that Bush's Avenger was never on fire" and that "no smoke came out of his cockpit when he opened his canopy to bail out. "Only one man exited the Barbara and that was Bush.

Airman Thomas R. Kenne, pilot from another carrier, who had been picked by the Finback a few days after Bush, was also quoted as being surprised to hear about an alleged fire on board the Avenger, "Did he say that?

[buycitgo]

44. like I said

who would YOU believe?

[0007]

35. Never could figure that one out!

"Evidently the U.S. Navy agreed and warded Bush the Distinguished Flying Cross for completing the bombing mission against the Chichi Jima radio transmission tower." page 7 & 8 in J.H. Hatfield book, "Fortunate Son"

[Stephanie]

2. I'm sure he's deluged, but here are my links

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

The pundits immediately went berserk after the debate. As well they should. Because they know that they -- and much of the mainstream media -- ignored this Bush AWOL story when it was first revealed by an investigation in the Boston Globe (in 2000). The Globe said it appeared George W. Bush skipped out in the middle of his Texas Air National Guard service -- and no charges were ever brought against him. It was a damning story, and Bush has never provided any documents or evidence to refute the Globe's charges.

George W. Bush was missing for at least a 12 month period. That is an undisputed fact. If you or I did that, we would serve time.

Senator Daniel Inouye, Democrat of Hawaii and a World War II veteran, joined with Vietnam vets Sen. Max Cleland and Sen. Bob Kerrey to challenge Bush on the gaps in his military record. "The question is, where were you, Governor Bush? What would you do as commander-in-chief if someone in the National Guard did the same thing? At the least, I would have been court-martialed. At the least, I would have been placed in prison," Inouye said.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The definitive site - a comprehensive collection of links, articles and official documents:

http://www.awolbush.com/

Where were you in '72?
Most of us remember...Bush does not...

So, while the news networks have sat on this explosive story for months, it's well documented that George W. Bush never showed up for National Guard duty for a period of approximately one year, possibly more, in 1972-1973. Despite all the talk about "honor and dignity," Bush seems to have a problem meeting his commitments.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/3671

FINALLY, THE TRUTH ABOUT BUSH'S MILITARY SERVICE RECORD
George W.'s Missing Year

Marty Heldt is a farmer. He told us, "I spent 17 years as a brakeman before moving back to the farm. That job had some long layovers that gave me a lot of time to read and to educate myself." He lives in Clinton, Iowa.

Nearly two hundred manila-wrapped pages of George Walker Bush's service records came to me like some sort of giant banana stuffed into my mailbox.

I had been seeking more information about his military record to find out what he did during what I think of as his "missing year," when he failed to show up for duty as a member of the Air National Guard, as the Boston Globe first reported.

The initial page I examined is a chronological listing of Bush's service record. This document charts active duty days served from the time of his enlistment. His first year, a period of extensive training, young Bush is credited with serving 226 days. In his second year in the Guard, Bush is shown to have logged a total of 313 days. After Bush got his wings in June 1970 until May 1971, he is credited with a total of 46 days of active duty. From May 1971 to May 1972, he logged 22 days of active duty.

Then something happened. From May 1, 1972 until April 30, 1973 -- a period of twelve months -- there are no days shown, though Bush should have logged at least thirty-six days service (a weekend per month in addition to two weeks at camp).

<The documents are available at: http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm >

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Paul Krugman:

http://truthout.org/docs_03/050703G.shtml

Mind you, it was funny. At first the White House claimed the dramatic tail-hook landing was necessary because the carrier was too far out to use a helicopter. In fact, the ship was so close to shore that, according to The Associated Press, administration officials "acknowledged positioning the massive ship to provide the best TV angle for Bush's speech, with the sea as his background instead of the San Diego coastline."

A U.S.-based British journalist told me that he and his colleagues had laughed through the whole scene. If Tony Blair had tried such a stunt, he said, the press would have demanded to know how many hospital beds could have been provided for the cost of the jet fuel.

But U.S. television coverage ranged from respectful to gushing. Nobody pointed out that Mr. Bush was breaking an important tradition. And nobody seemed bothered that Mr. Bush, who appears to have skipped more than a year of the National Guard service that kept him out of Vietnam, is now emphasizing his flying experience. (Spare me the hate mail. An exhaustive study by The Boston Globe found no evidence that Mr. Bush fulfilled any of his duties during that missing year. And since Mr. Bush has chosen to play up his National Guard career, this can't be shrugged off as old news.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<Right click and copy link location - it's so long it distorts the page>
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/One_year_gap_in_Bush_s_Guard_duty+.shtml">Boston Globe

One-year gap in Bush's National Guard duty
No record of airman at drills from 1972-73
By Walter V. Robinson, Globe Staff, 5/23/2000

AUSTIN, Texas - After George W. Bush became governor in 1995, the Houston Air National Guard unit he had served with during the Vietnam War years honored him for his work, noting that he flew an F-102 fighter-interceptor until his discharge in October 1973.

And Bush himself, in his 1999 autobiography, ''A Charge to Keep,'' recounts the thrills of his pilot training, which he completed in June 1970. ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several years,'' the governor wrote.

But both accounts are contradicted by copies of Bush's military records, obtained by the Globe. In his final 18 months of military service in 1972 and 1973, Bush did not fly at all. And for much of that time, Bush was all but unaccounted for: For a full year, there is no record that he showed up for the periodic drills required of part-time guardsmen.

Bush, who declined to be interviewed on the issue, said through a spokesman that he has ''some recollection'' of attending drills that year, but maybe not consistently.

From May to November 1972, Bush was in Alabama working in a US Senate campaign, and was required to attend drills at an Air National Guard unit in Montgomery. But there is no evidence in his record that he did so. And William Turnipseed, the retired general who commanded the Alabama unit back then, said in an interview last week that Bush never appeared for duty there.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://bushwatch.org/bushgate2.htm

JUNIOR AWOL ON DRUGS?

"THE Republican frontrunner for the White House, George W Bush, was suspended from flying as a young pilot for failing to take a medical examination that included a drug test.
"Documents obtained by The Sunday Times reveal that in August 1972, as a 26-year-old subaltern in the Air National Guard, Bush was grounded for failing to "accomplish" an annual medical that would have indicated whether he was taking drugs....While he has consistently admitted to a "misspent youth", Bush has evaded questions about cocaine or other drug use, implying only that he has not taken illegal substances since 1974, the year after he left the Air National Guard....

"Bush was not required to face drug tests when he first entered the reserve unit as a Yale graduate in 1968. It was only at the end of 1971 that the US Air Force, facing a backlash against drug-fuelled escapades in Vietnam, introduced a screening policy. In April 1972 the Pentagon implemented a drug-abuse testing programme that required officers on "extended active duty", including reservists such as Bush, to undergo at least one random drug test every year. The annual medical exam that year included a routine analysis of urine, a close examination of the nasal cavities and specific questions about drugs....

"Bush was said to have been unable to take the medical because he was in Alabama while his doctor was in Houston. his campaign official, however, said Bush was aware that he would be suspended for missing his medical as soon as he left Houston because the air force was unable to process his new status before the August deadline for the test. "It was just a question of following the bureaucratic procedure of the time," he said. "He knew the suspension would have to take place."

"William Turnipseed, a retired general who commanded the Alabama unit at the time, said Bush never appeared for duty. Two commanders at Ellington air force base in Houston said in his record they were unable to perform his annual evaluation covering the year from May 1, 1972 to April 30, 1973. "Lt Bush has not been observed at this unit during the period of this report," they wrote.

"...Chris Lapetina, a former marine and Democratic political consultant, said controversy about the medical exam could hurt Bush's chances among several voting blocks, including pensioners and veterans. Many servicemen would be upset if they thought a possible future president had avoided an obligatory military examination that included a drug test, he said. "When someone doesn't take a physical in the military there's got to be very good reason," Lapetina said. "It looks like he made a decision not to take it because the alternative was unpalatable." " --Sunday Times (UK), 6/17/00

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

<http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A59151-2000Jun25¬Found=true>

Records of Bush's Ala. Military Duty Can't Be Found
By Wayne Slater
Dallas Morning News
Monday, June 26, 2000; Page A06

AUSTIN –– After a thorough search of military records, George W. Bush's presidential campaign has failed to find any documents proving he reported for duty during an eight-month stint in Alabama with the Texas Air National Guard.

But a spokesman expressed confidence Saturday that inquiries will turn up former Guard members who can corroborate Bush's having been there.

"He specifically recalls pulling duty in Alabama," spokesman Dan Bartlett said of Bush. "He did his drills."

<snip>

"I can't remember what I did, but I wasn't flying because they didn't have the same airplanes. I fulfilled my obligations."

In May, retired Gen. William Turnipseed, the former commander of the Alabama Guard unit, said Bush did not report to him, although the young airman was required to do so. His orders, dated Sept. 15, 1972, said: "Lieutenant Bush should report to Lt. Col. William Turnipseed, DCO, to perform equivalent training."

"To my knowledge, he never showed up," Turnipseed said last month.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.agitproperties.com/chickenhawk.html

Please read the scathing letter from Captain Maureen Griswold, (who lost her brother Scott to the Vietnam War debacle), to KB toys about their bush (non)action figure. Here's a brief excerpt:

"Note: AWOL and absent without leave' and desertion (defined as AWOL beyond 30 days), are actual crimes with NO STATUTES OF LIMITATION."

Other links to bush's (non)duty are provided on the linked web page and within the letter of Captain Griswold.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On the lack of coverage
http://www.uaw.org/cap/01/news/day3media.html

Let me give you some statistics," responded panelist Paul Begala, "I worked for Bill Clinton in 1992 and …in anticipation of this very question, I looked this up on Nexis. There were 13,641 stories about Bill Clinton 'dodging the draft' …and there were 49 stories about Bush and the National Guard," Begala said.

And here is a timeline.

http://uggabugga.blogspot.com/2003_01_12_uggabugga_archive.html#87590816

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Bill Burkett:

May 28, 2002
A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

Pausing to Reflect After Memorial Day: Were George W. Bush's National Guard Records Scrubbed? Bill Burkett Should Know. The Nation Deserves the Truth.

(See http://199.96.2.183/contributors/2002/05/24_supreme.html to understand the context of this letter to BuzzFlash.com from Bill Burkett. It is also recommended that you read these two important postings from the Democrats.com archives: http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=171 and
http://www.democrats.com/display.cfm?id=154)

Additional BuzzFlash Note: Major General Daniel James was head of the Texas National Guard at the time of the alleged scrubbing of George W. Bush's National Guard records. He was appointed by George W. Bush to be commander of the nation's Air National Guard -- and was confirmed by the Senate last week.

A Letter to BuzzFlash.com from Bill Burkett, formerly of the Texas National Guard:

In regards to the BuzzFlash contibutor piece, "SUPREME IRONY" (http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/05/24_Supreme.html)

This BuzzFlash reader gets it closer to right than anyone has since 1998 when I broke the Bush AWOL story as a whistleblower.

I hope that more information will be coming soon as a few journalists are now asking questions that should have been asked in 1998.

http://www.buzzflash.com/analysis/2002/05/28_Scrubbed.html

* * *

Also from the Veterans for Peace website:

What do you say?
By Bill Burkett
Online Journal Contributing Writer

March 19, 2003—I've sat in total grief for the past three years, watching the institutions of America being spent as if they were lottery winnings.

I don't want to say it, "But I told you so."

In January of 1998 and what seems like a full lifetime ago, I was stricken by a deadly case of meningoencephalitis. I was returning from a short duty trip to Panama as a team chief to inspect the hand over of Ft. Clayton to the Panamanians. I had been 'loaned' from the senior staff and state planning officer of the Texas National Guard to the Department of the Army for a series of these special projects after angering George W. Bush by refusing to falsify readiness information and reports; confronting a fraudulent funding scheme which kept 'ghost' soldiers on the books for additional funding, and refusing to alter official personnel records .

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/what_do_you_say_032203.htm

Who is Bill Burkett?

Lt. Col. Bill Burkett completed 28 years of decorated service and was medically retired from the US Army National Guard in 1998 after suffering meningoencephalitis on return from an assignment in Panama. From 1995 until his illness, Burkett served as State Plans Officer for the Texas Army National Guard and Governor George W. Bush. After refusing to follow direct orders involving falsifying readiness reports, Burkett sought "whistleblower" status for reports involving anti-Semitic activity; personnel fraud; readiness fraud and the alteration of the personal military file of Governor George W. Bush. Lt. Col. Burkett is currently the plaintiff in his appeal to the US Supreme Court in the case of Burkett v. Goodwin, Taliaferro, Meador, et al, in regard to the retaliation against him following breaking the Bush records issue. Lt. Col Burkett served as a War Plans Officer during Operation Desert Storm and functioned as a senior trainer in conducting simulations exercises for deploying troops.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

David Neiwert:

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2004_01_18_dneiwert_archive.html#107489673457218778

Bush blew off his commitment to the Texas Air National Guard by failing to take a physical, and thereafter failing to report to his superior officers at his old unit for at least seven months. His flight status was revoked, and he never flew again -- at least, not until the Lincoln stunt.

These facts have never been disputed since they were uncovered, and in fact were acknowledged by Bush's spokespeople. Moreover, as Joe Conason has already noted, Bush actually falsified this aspect of his service in his ghost-written autobiography, A Charge to Keep, describing his pilot's training in some detail, then concluding: ''I continued flying with my unit for the next several years." In fact, Bush was suspended from flying 22 months after he completed his training -- a period that does not even generously fit Bush's description.

Several of Bush's former superiors in the TANG -- most of whom remain on friendly terms with the president -- have defended his service and suggested that there was nothing wrong with Bush's behavior in what for most other servicemen would be considered a fairly clear case of dereliction of duty.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[GreenPartyVoter]

3. Blitzer makes me want to retch

Some "journalist".

[neverforget]

4. Character. It shows what kind of character Bush had when the

nation called on him to serve. He used his family name and friends to get a TANG assignment ahead of hundreds of others and then was AWOL for a year. Add to this his drug and alcohol use and his DUIs. I think that shows what kind of character Bush has.

[bobbieinok]

5. Marty's email address is [e-mail]

There was some talk in 2000 that one/some of the people were saving the threads.

I still think a book which basically follows (using the TT threads)the story of Marty and the rest working on this story - and still working on it - would be great.

[buycitgo]

21. Marty is actively working on this again

he's recently filed more FOIA requests

[DebJ]

6. of course. Truth always = 'dirty' politics to those who love to abuse

their power. war=peace defense=offense etc

[knight_of_the_star]

7. No more dirty than sneaking into Clinton's sex life

Actually I would have to say Clinton's sex life is worse because that is something that is PRIVATE (unless you're an exhibitionist or something like that).

Bush, on the other hand, did something that is in the PUBLIC domain, and it SHOULD be discussed.

[Jacobin]

8. Of course. Anyone who says anything negative about the Emperor

is employing dirty tricks and further is a traitor. (see Ann Coulter).

Anyone who besmirches the reputation of a Dem on grounds that are baseless is a hero and a patriot.

Didn't you get the memo?

[buycitgo]

9. hard hitting Mr. Relevant brings up BOTOX!

what an asswipe

he just mentioned AWOL again.....it will have something to do with Terry McAuliffe, apparently

wonder if it'll deal with what he said to Stephie on ABC yesterday

over to AMPOL to see what they had to say.....

[buycitgo]

12. pretty good rehash of McAuliffe on AWOL

Terry Mac said he looks forward to a debate between Kerry, a war hero, and Bush, who abandoned his duties with the Texas Air National Guard when he went to Alabama as a "scampaign" staffer for some GOPer who eventually lost (ha, ha! so much for "values" -- look for Smirk's so-called "war" record to become an issue that will damage him among fence-sitters to whom character does matter). Is it legitimate to bring up Bush's "failure to show up" for guard duty as an issue? Terry Mac made fun of Smirk's flight deck dress-up -- and said that the Democrats will not allow to happen to Kerry what happened to former Sen. Clelend. "Call it what you want... AWOL, desertion..." said TM, because the Democrats will make it an issue.

But Terry wasn't through wielding the Ginsu knife of scrutiny on the former Texas governor's character and honesty. He turned to the other issues: "Jobs, jobs, jobs" and "misleading the American public" about what his Medicare scam will really cost. "They outed a CIA operative" because people questioned what Smirk said in the 2003 SOTU. Independents, he said are turning to the Democrats; NH is in play, and the Dems will take Iowa.

Steph would not get off the topic of Smirk's "war record" -- and Terry said in so many words that the Dems are not going to relent.

(Take this to the bank -- it does not matter who gets the nomination. The Bush scion's character, honesty AND temperament will be an issue -- and activist Democrats would be wise to start talking about it. And yes, some independents are turning to the Dems, but many, particularly in the red states, may also opt to sit this election out -- which would also help Democrat hopes.)



http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040201punditpap.html

[Zero Gravitas]

10. It speaks to character

and the conservatives think that a man's character is the single most important thing when it comes to being President of the United States.

Not only did Bush wish to avoid service in Vietnam, he got into the TANG only after haveing strings pulled for him and then deserted his unit rather than take a drug test (or because he was busted for drugs). Then he lied about it.

I would argue that this incident alone speaks volumes about Bush's (lack of) character. Any conservative who truthfully felt that Clinton's hanky panky was a reason to impeach should also feel that Bush lacks the character to be Commander-in-Chief just based on his TANG "service" alone.

[45th Med]

11. What is TT?

nt

[Stephanie]

14. It's the message board at Salon

It's Pay-to-Post. Used to be fun, before.

[45th Med]

18. Pay to Post?

That's outrageous! So, I guess you'd better have something good to say before hitting the post button, eh? LMAO.

[Stephanie]

29. It's a subscription

You don't pay per post. But that's an interesting thought! Maybe we should try that here?

[bobbieinok]

30. You have to pay a yearly fee, then can post as much as you want

In 2000, salon.com hadn't started this so lots of us discussed all sorts of things there.

[buycitgo]

13. oooooooooohhhhhhhhhh.....they just went into quite a bit of detail

DeFENDING him to the hilt......taped it

THEN, they just showed a poll, showing that Merkins say that dumbo his MORE patriotic than Kerry by

49 to 34 percent!!!!!!

and you should have heard the way he LEANED INTO the word "MORE" as he said patriotic

was Wolf Axis Sally in an earlier life?

I wonder if he has any idea how transPARENT he seems

now....let's go to the tape

[jpak]

15. Yo Wolfie - ask Valerie Plame about dirty dirty politics

Oh that's different....yeah right.

[Democrats unite]

16. And wich Dem nominee got the ball rolling on this?

I case you don't know it was Wesley Clark on National television!

[0007]

20. Should have been rolled out before the 2000 election

The freepers sure rolled it out before junior was nominated and probably have more information about the rat than we do. I remember reading it all, someone even claimed to have a naked photo of junior dancing on a table in a Austin nightclub nude.

[efhmc]

23. Yes, he did and I cheered when it was reported. Please explain to me

why in any way shape or form, this is dirty politics.

[Terwilliger]

31. it was Michael Moore

[buycitgo]

19. heeeeere we go!

"I'm look forward to that debate where John Kerry, a WAR hero, with a chest full of metals, is standing next to George Bush, a man who was AWOL in the Alabama National Guard."--go, Terry McAuliffe!

they go into how dumbo joined in 68, "served over the next four years in Houston an equivalent of 21 months on active duty"

"then, in 72, Bush moved to Alabama to work on a Senate campaign where he says he he continued to fulfill his Guard service on the weekends."

of COURSE, NO mention of the fact that he was SUSPENDED from flying.

they show a clip of Bush in 1999, downplaying charges that he skipped service, calling it "politics"

then, the clip of Michael Moore, shouting out "the General versus the Deserter. THAT's the debate!"

then, a clip of Ed "ScrewNose" Gillespie, saying something very close to this: "the democrats throw these charges out there---they're just completely inaccurate; and it's unfortunate that they stoop to this kind of politics."

more coming.....the stuff above is almost word for word, when in quotes.....from tape

[maggrwaggr]

22. it's going to be as effective as the Gropinator charges

in other words, completely ineffective.

I think the Dems should bring this up but not push it.

People don't care, because Bush is already president.

[buycitgo]

25. if it becomes part of the fabric of LIES......

currently being ever-so-meekly looked into by the groveling media, it could represent a major shift in the public's perception of this lying coward.

this, as somebody said above, is KEY for the dopey thug vote....as "Character" counts above all else for them. All THEIR candidate has to do is spew out bromidic platitudes, and the lap them up like ambrosia.

For pugs, it's ALWAYS 'watch what they say,' not watch what they do/have done

[bobbieinok]

27. NOT THE SAME the 'groping' charges came out the last weekend

this has been investigated since at least early 2000

READ http://www.awolbush.com

[Terwilliger]

32. yes, and he stole the election anyway

and the drunk driving charge was quite some time before the election, and that didn't hurt him either

[bobbieinok]

48. DUI was publicized the weekend before the election

Many of us think it was used to outyell Inouye and Bob Kerrey press conference on AWOL charges the Friday before the election.

The website that had the conference and MANY LINKS FOR JOURNALISTS was hacked and taken down that Friday and weekend (first time ever for this site).

DUI story was broken on FAUX!!!!! from info that had been available for some time. Interesting bit of manipulation to keep even a bit of AWOL story out of the media.

[Q]

28. I don't remember Wolfy complaining about 'dirty politics'...

...during the Clinton years.

[ComerPerro]

33. Normally it would be "dirty politics", but not this time

Bush fucking started it.

When FReeper-types went crazy about Clinton being a "draft dodger", I didn't like it. I really didn't see why it was necessary to bring up what someone did during Vietnam. It was irrelevant to me.

But Bush's pathetic record during Vietnam deserves to be brought to light. Why?
Because he is Republican? No. (Well, yes, considering what assholes they were to Clinton about his lack of service. But that's not the reason).

Bush's record needs to be exposed because he is pretending to be a war hero. He is the one who "landed" on the aircraft carrier dressed as a pilot, and called himself a "pilot in Vietnam". He is the one who has his own "Elite Aviator" action figure. He is the one who questioned the integrity and patriotism of John McCain and Max Cleland, despite his own terrible record.

He started this shit, and I don't think we should back down just because it looks like "dirty politics".

If those GOP assholes can dish it out, they better fucking be ready to take it.

[nostamj]

36. wolf swallows

every drop that doesn't end up in his beard.

god i loath that crackwhore!

[buycitgo]

37. back to the tape....this part is disgusting

and, I believ inaccurate.

can someone help with their interpretation of AWOL, and how it's applicable to the smirkmonkey?

bimbette says this:

According to military code, President Bush can't be technically labelled AWOL or a deserter. Only active duty soldiers in the US military who don't appear for thirty days qualify for that, Wolf.

is that correct? if it is, accoring to HER, then it's imPOSSIBLE for a Guardsman to be AWOL, under any circumstances, right?

AND.....he obviously missed more than thirty days (does it have to be active duty?) can somebody clarify that.....quote is exact, btw.

did he ever attend those two week stints from 72-73, which, unless I'm mistaken, ARE considered active duty? Is that how he skates? That would only be 28 days.

Now, this part is clearly open to interpretation, for all you Kerry lovers/haters:

Wolf plays tape of Kerry saying this......

I spoke out against the use of the word "deserter," which I thought was inappropriate, wrong, over the top.

then, Wolf shows poll, after saying that this isn't having much of an effect on Merkins when it comes to the issue of PAYtriotism. He REALLY emphasized the word PAYtriotism there, to make it clear that Mr. and Mrs. Couch Potato don't care much about this.

Well, GEE, Wolf, it's not like they have the FIRST idea what's going on here, now, do they? Sort of like most Americans didn't think there was much going on relating to Watergate in late June of 1972.

But PLEASE keep bringing it up, in as derogatory a fashion as you like, cause perhaps people will beCOME conscious of it, and realize what a lying, cheating COWARD he is.

and why don't you start telling the ENTIRE story, you jerk?

fill in the holes, eg his GROUNDING, the fact that he cut out EARLY, and probably didn't make up ANY of the missing days at all.

and why don't you mention the fact that his records seem to have been TAMpered with?

just the tip of the iceberg.

[Terwilliger]

42. ok...where did you think Blitzer would look for the cold truth?

He doesn't care. It doesn't affect him, but the problem I see here is that Blitzer and his lapdog friends will never have to take a hard look at the facts, b/c the only thing that will motivate them to do so is 1) a smoking-gun type event, or 2) a Democrats willing to talk about it

[buycitgo]

46. I have ZERO illusions regarding Wolf having the slighest interest

in the truth.

and you're absolutely right about dems needing to hit this issue HARD, unlike their active avoidance (til it was MUCH too late) in 2000.

timing and presentation will be KEY, however, and whoever the candidate is will probably have to distance himself, at least until his surrogates can FORCE the media to deal with the screamingly obvious dishonor out CINC has cast upon the uniform he disgraced in such a cowardly fashion.

we all know what he can do to make all these "lies" by the dems go up in a puff of smoke.

he could try COMING CLEAN for the first time in his life.

[geniph]

38. What Clinton did - or did not do -

with Ms. Lewinsky is not a crime. Being AWOL during your sworn term of military service most definitely is a crime. This is far more serious than a consensual sex act between adults. It's also more serious than committing perjury by lying about said act (because the question about his sex life never should have been asked in the first place, any more than the public has the right to inquire as to the state of his bowels).

[rocktivity]

43. It's not called dirty politics, Wolfie. It's called...

THE TRUTH!!!


rocknation

[OneTwentyoNine]

50. Yes!! But only when used against a Republican...remember that!! eom