Observations of a former Conservative

[x-g.o.p.er]

I have a really learned a lot since I first logged on here last month. First, there is a lot of dislike for the current president. I, too, share that dislike. I think impeachment is going too far, but we can discuss that another time, and I hope we will!! Second, and most important to me, is how people’s views are respected here (for the most part), even if they are not the ones that are the most popular.

I just changed party affiliation and registered as a democrat today. Up until about 9:30 this morning, I was a lifelong Republican. Several things caused me to change my views, but today I can add another one.

I used to laugh at folks on the left who accused the right of thinking in lock step and crushing dissent. Most of them don’t—they honestly want what’s best for their country, just like we do. But unfortunately, there are those that will try and drown out your concerns with insults. When I started to voice concerns about what was happening to our country with some of my conservative friends (conservatives are not all evil, BTW) they agreed, but only to a point. They asked if I would rather have a democrat in charge. When I answered that yeah, I think I would, I was accused of a lot of things, from being un-American, to disloyal, to dumb ass, and worse.

I’ve seen a lot of posts on here asking how they can break through to their “repug” (that term IS funny, but mostly inaccurate) friends and get them to see the light. I have also seen a lot of posts about p.o.’d Republicans vowing not to vote for Bush in ’04. There are many people on the right who are discontented with the current regime, but for those who supported him in 2000 (and yes, I did) it is difficult to come to terms with the fact that they supported someone who has been such a disappointment. They feel like they were sold a bill of goods, or betrayed, quite frankly. They hold out hope that if they support him again, that he will return to his conservative roots.

Accept the fact that some people will never change. But also accept the fact that some people will change, if presented a logical case in a respectful tone. The truth is powerful. It worked for me. I started to come to that realization on my own, but I have received a lot of moral support here. And a lot of information.

Most of our fellow Americans on the right who want to vote against Bush, but are scared to make that leap only need a gentle nudge. If they are worried about his fiscal discipline (or lack of), ask them what they think will happen if he is left un-checked for four more years. If they are concerned about our security in light of September 11th, show them, in writing, what the Patriot Act says the government now can do. Then add that they can do that to American citizens, and ask them if that is the type of security we want. Most people don’t honestly know this stuff. A little knowledge goes a long way.

Keep the faith, keep speaking the truth, and we will prevail!!

For the good of the Republic, ABB in ’04!!

[jansu]

1. Welcome to both the Democratic Party and DU!

You are exactly the kind of thinking human being that America needs! And, you will be a great help in turning this country around! Great Post!

[judge_smales]

2. Glad to have you on board!!

I'm a convert too. There will probably a be quite few more of us here by the time Nov. rolls around

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Welcome and congrats.

We too (on the left) wants whats best for the country, and best for the country over time. The whole country, not just the special interests who can afford access through lobbyists or by massive campaign contibutions. And for a time, not just for a specific 4 years (arguably the tax cuts may have stimulated the economy, but at what later cost?).

[Arugula Latte]

42. We also consider what's best for the world

We don't just think about the good of this country. We realize that all the living beings on the planet are in it together. As they say, "one planet, indivisible."

[1gobluedem]

4. Welcome aboard

and congrats to you x-g-o-p-er! We need more of you!

It's also refreshing to have you note how honest and thoughtful dialogue can make its point and make a difference instead of name-calling and mudslinging. Respect begets respect...usually.

[KCDem]

5. one angle that I think would work with real conservatives

is that Bush is 100% unchecked--anything he wants, he gets! And he hasn't used his veto power at all. Don't real conservatives want smaller government? This current regime is anything but.

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. Yep, there are lots of folks ticked off

at the way he grows both the government and the deficit...all while shrinking civil liberties.

[NWHarkness]

6. Welcome, fellow American!

.

[Caution]

7. Thanks!

Hopefully you'll be able to sway some of your conservative friends.

While there is sometimes a bit of virulence towards republicans and conservatives on DU, typically (and certainly in my case) this is more directed towards those who would co-opt conservative values solely as a means of garnering votes and then misusing power to cater to corporate interests, power and greed. While we generally do disagree with many if not all conservative talking points, it is only when they start foaming at the mouth like Limbaugh, Hannity, and Coulter that our bloods gets pumping.

[bigendian]

8. It's kind of like this.

Alot of voters are like the battered wife who won't leave her husband because they think if they hang on he will change. Fat chance.
Others have been told to stay with him because he is a good provider and father. Better the devil you know as the freepers say.

It's funny that the people who claim to not need any help from the government are so totally dependent on that head of household figure.

[Zero Gravitas]

10. Fiscal Discipline

It should be increasing obvious to most that "fiscal discipline" and the republican party are not synonymous! The budget deficit tripled under Reagan and George I was eliminated under Clinton and is now reaching record depths under George II.

I would recommend encouraging Republicans to split their vote in November, vote for ABB for President (and surely Kerry would be acceptable to many moderate Republicans?) and vote for whatever fundie whacko the local GOP puts up for Congress ;)

Unless the GOP is going to rely on Divine Intervention to balance the budget they might at least hold President Kerry's feet to the budgetary fires.

I of course will campaign for a Dem take-back of Congress :) If only my rep wasn't a pro-Bush DINO I would go and volunteer for him.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

24. The magic words in your case are

"primary challenge." :evilgrin:

Unless it's too late, of course. But hold that thought for the next election cycle. :-)

[wicket]

11. I'm a convert too

Welcome aboard!

[burythehatchet]

12. I applaud you for your candid and seemingly heartfelt expression

Welcome. Remember, most people, as you indicate do want what's best, but one of the difference between liberals and conservatives is that liberals embrace complexity.

[devilgrrl]

13. It's seems that something bad had to happen before you changed...

Accept the fact that some people will never change. But also accept the fact that some people will change, if presented a logical case in a respectful tone. The truth is powerful. It worked for me. I started to come to that realization on my own, but I have received a lot of moral support here. And a lot of information.

Not to be insulting but why is it that something bad had to happen to you personally before even considering looking at where the other side was coming from? That always seems to be the case when conservatives swing left of center. Where was the empathy before?

Just curious?

[Old and In the Way]

14. Just curious and hope you can comment.

(1) What were the issues that made you question the Republican line?
(2) How did you find alternative sources of information? The traditional broadcast media is still slanted toward the Republican POV, although I'm seeing signs of balanced reporting/viewpoints getting more airtime recently.

I pretty much agree with your post...I think there is a significant % of cult-like people who worship Bush and his policies without question. But I also think there are at least as many moderate Republicans who are really beginning to really wonder what they signed up for in this agenda that was not part of the Bush 2000 campaign.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Good question

How do folks who wish to no longer be Republicans find out more about the alternatives? (I'm betting pretty heavy that the internet plays a fairly large role, as might books by folks like Greg Palast and Michael Moore.)

[x-g.o.p.er]

22. Why I switched

I posted this a few days ago. I hope you enjoy


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1069573

As for alternative sources of info, I just typed in "liberal news links" in Google. I came upon a few, which had links to more, and I started reading. I learn something new every day

[devilgrrl]

29. Yes, I read this...

but what I'd like to know is why it took something that effected you personally to finally look at the other side? What was so wrong with the left that turned you off? :shrug:

[Rebellious Republican]

32. This is not intended as a slam devilgrrl, but I was there once.....

myself (republican). Its called human nature, most people from all walks of life and political persuasions base their beliefs and decisions on life experiences. We all make decisions regarding lives on our own experiences in life, i.e. Once when I was a child, my mother told me not to touch the wood burning stove or I would get burnt. Later that night, guess what, I touched the stove and I got burnt. Guess what, I have not touched a wood burning stove since!

[devilgrrl]

34. No offense taken...

but I'm often curious about such matters.

Take, for example, "Affirmative Action", I can not think of one instance where affirmative action has effected me negatively, prevented me from achieving something or have I seen anyone lesser qualified gain something over me. The only thing I've seen was someone getting financial help to pay for tuition. However, you would never know this by listening to everyone's incessant whining about the issue.

[x-g.o.p.er]

33. Good question

I would accept almost everything said by a prominent conservative at face value, because what the heck does the left know about anything? It's pretty easy to disagree with or dismiss someone when they are demonized by someone you think of as a voice of reason as a radical bent on the destruction of your country. And when you see a lot of talk shows on television, most of them resort to insults and one person trying to talk over the other. I'd hear what the conservative point of view was, pretty much think, "yeah, that's right" and move on.

Quite frankly, I thought I knew what was going on politically in this country, when in fact I was pretty intellectually lazy, and I was content that way. While I was home recuperating, I actually read the Constitution, the Dec. of Independence, and the Federalist Papers. I began to realize that Bush was taking this country in a direction so far away from where the Founding Fathers wanted it to go, I could no longer deny what is so obvious.

Look, I am sure we will disagree on a lot of things, but at least now, instead of looking at an issue from one direction, I try to get as much information from as many different sources so I can make an informed, rational decision, and come to my own conclusions, as opposed to just agreeing with someone else's point of view. And if we still disagree? At least it's honest disagreement viewed with mutual respect, as opposed to intellectual dishonesty viewed through a prism of pre-conceived notions and sterotypes.

[devilgrrl]

35. Works for me...

Thanks for answering the question and I look forward to reading more of your posts. :-)

[9215]

43. Please delete

[Catherine Vincent]

16. Welcome, already....

I think DU has caught on that you're a former goper.

Peace.

[x-g.o.p.er]

23. lol...fair enough n/t

[eleny]

17. Welcome to the Dem Party!

And thanks for your thoughts and advice. You've made some good points and offered helpful advice. Great nickname, too!:pals:

[BeFree]

18. Wonderful!

One hopes that the squatters in the White House get wind of your post.

Surely, somehwere in the bowels of that place, are one or two patriots like yourself, who see the wisdom of becoming this century's Deep-throat. Then we can begin talking about impeachment, eh?

[denverbill]

19. Nice post(s) and welcome.

I've read several of your posts since you signed on last week, and by and large, I don't see much to disagree with.

I also agree with you that not all Republicans are Nazi-zombies:). I think people who are strongly political tend to like to pick our their counterparts on the far other side and use them to generalize about the entire party. That's why conservative talk show hosts call anyone who supports unemployment insurance a communist. It's a pity, because it polarizes both parties and actual debate gets lost in the shuffle.

I'm sure you hold positions which most people on this board would challenge. Hopefully, you will find more positions on which we agree.

[lancdem]

20. Excellent post

Welcome to DU and the Democratic Party! :hi:

[Jacobin]

21. I enjoy reading your posts very much

You make good points again.

Who would have ever thought that the party of fiscal restraint and avoiding needless foreign entanglements would be the democratic party?

The neo-cons are destroying your former party, and frankly, as amazed as I am to say this, I am sorry. Conservative republicans (not neo-cons) have lots of valid points on policy and are responsible citizens. The neo-cons appear to me to be on a mission to either make America the new nazi germany and take over the world, or get us all killed trying to. They are crazed and unfortunately Bush the Younger listens to them, or lets them drive the train. Bush the Elder did NOT listen to them and as a consequence, while I did not vote for him I respect most of what he did while in office. At least he was a realist. Bush the Younger is a fool, if not worse

[Rebellious Republican]

25. Here is some more canon fodder for you x-g.o.p.er

Pass this around to some of your right leaning military buddies, and see if they still think Bush is for them.....

Please click on the link at the bottom for the full article.

Do you support our troops? If so, prepare to be outraged that our commander in chief does not.

The Bush Administration's 2004 budget proposed gutting Veterans Administration (VA) services, including health care funding. Proposed cuts included: denying at least 360,000 veterans access to health care; $250 annual premiums; increased pharmacy co-payments; a 30 percent increased primary care co-payments; and increased waiting time for a first medical appointment.

Because of budgetary shortfalls, the VA suspended the enrollment of veterans not injured in service earning between $24,450 and $38,100 annually. VFW officials estimated the administration's VA budget is at least $2 billion short of meeting the demand for quality health care.

The FY 2004 budget approved by Congress calls for reducing VA funding over a 10-year period by $6.2 billion. Cuts are in the areas of veterans' health care and disability benefits.

The cuts affect VA discretionary funding, which could mean discontinuation of burial benefits for veterans or delays in the cost-of-living adjustment for disability benefits.

Some veterans must pay a new $250 annual enrollment fee to join the VA healthcare system. The VA believes 1.25 million veterans nationwide, already under the VA healthcare plan, may no longer be able to participate because of the new fee.

Veterans who can remain under the VA health-care system will pay increased co-payments for physician benefits and prescription drug cost, amounting to an estimated increase in out-of-pocket expenses of $347 each year.

The Bush Administration's budget proposal would have under-funded the VA by more than $2 billion. Bush's proposal would have cut the number of employees available to process disability claims, yet veterans already wait more than six months for a review of disability applications. The Bush plan for dealing with the waiting lists at VA clinics and hospitals is to reduce the number of veterans treated by the VA.

http://www.indiemediamagazine.com/article.php?story=20040201025638295


P.S. Check out my 2 replies to your thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1074806

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. Welcome, x-g.o.p.er

Your former party has been hijacked by fanatics.

I'm old enough to remember when the Republican party really was the party of fiscal restraint and small business. When I was growing up, Minnesota more or less alternated Democratic and Republican governors, and nobody ever seemed to feel that either situation was a disaster.

But that has changed with the election of Tim Pawlenty, a fundamentalist, and several like-minded legislators. I was amazed to read in the newspaper this morning, that Stillwater, Minnesota is now represented in the legislature by a woman who wants to organize the government on "Biblical principles." :scared:--and I'm NOT an atheist.

As one MN Dem elected official told me a couple of months ago, "We used to be able to work amiably with the Republicans. Now it's not enough that they have a majority. They want to make us miserable, too."

In Oregon, where I lived for 18 years, the old-style Republicans enacted the state's pioneering environmental and land use laws, and many of them were for a peaceful approach to foreign policy. There were still a few of them left when I moved there in 1984, most notably Senator Mark Hatfield (the only Republican I ever voted for), but within a few years, the anti-tax crazies and the religious fundamentalists had taken over (odd for a decidedly unreligious state) and started slashing away at schools, parks, benefits for the disabled, and environmental laws, and shifting the tax burden from corporations to individuals.

Oregon and Minnesota are both known for their high quality of life, and the new-style Republicans can't wait to ruin them.

Thank you for coming over to our side. :hi:

[hippiegranny]

27. you're a breath of fresh air

thank you for that. i think your being here gives us all hope!

[wabeewoman]

28. Welcome and thanks for

the thoughtful post. I am hoping at the end of the bush regime we can go back to all being Americans. Although I have never been Republican, I do long for the days of the middle of the road republicans who had a social conscience. They were for smaller government but didn't seem to want to throw the poor out on the street. Somewhere along the line, people got mean and divisive. It isn't we're all in this together as a country but us against them. I long for the old days of checks and balances and parties that seemed to want what was best for all of America.

[havocmom]

30. America has a chance at restoring honor and dignity as public policy

as more and more people gain the courage to act on there convictions instead of being led around by spin-nanigans and PR stunts.

Thanks for finding your voice and adding it to the chorus, x-g.o.p.er. Welcome to America's Team! :toast:

[Petrodollar Warfare]

31. "A little knowledge goes a long way"

Welcome aboard. I enjoyed reading your thoughtful posts.

<<<<Most people don’t honestly know this stuff. A little knowledge goes a long way.>>>

Indeed, and as a soldier, I would recommend that you carefully read this essay. It is quite long, so I don't recommend you do this until you have 30 minutes to fully digest this info (its 50 pages when printed in pdf), but I think those fighting and dying deserve to know the reasons for their sacrifices. This essay was updated in Jan 2004 (the last 10 pages or so, you might find it interesting...)

'Revisited - The Real Reasons for the Upcoming War With Iraq:
A Macroeconomic and Geostrategic Analysis of the Unspoken Truth'
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html

Post-war commentary section (Jan 2004 - with a few typos)
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html#p4

<<<Keep the faith, keep speaking the truth, and we will prevail!!>>>

That is correct, Americans have a right to know what is going on...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. What about this:

Vote is secret. You can vote for (insert Dem nominee here) and tell your Bushista friends you voted Bush. That, by the way, is the VERY reason the vote is secret.

[SpiralHawk]

38. Speak your truth with dignity

based upon your best informed views.

Americans should feel free and able to speak their political views, and to disagree with one another in a respectful manner. That is the essence of democracy.

This process of debate -- vvoter to voter in coffee shops and on the internet -- is one of the fews democratic tools the American people have at the moment, for the media is serving not the public but the masters who hold the pursestrings.

One of the big problems in the USA right now is the fudging of truth by Bush and his administration, the omission or slanting of the news as it is reported in the mass media.

If any of us fudges the truth -- even with friends in an informal political discussion to avoid a potential conflict -- we are only adding to the confusion.

We must all stand for democracy and liberty, and that means respecting and using your First Ammendment rights.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

58. Yes, fine, but...

...you shouldn't be forced to be exposed to intimidation if you don't feel you can handle it. Some people are natural fighters, some are not. The latter can still fight, in the voting booth. Again, that's why the vote is secret.

That said, I agree with you in that whoever feels able to speak out, should.

[flaminbats]

37. ya freaking X-freeper!

:grr: welcome aboard! Now, if you could only talk to my uncle...

[Piperay]

39. As a former Republican myself...

WELCOME TO THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY! :hi: :bounce: :-)

[many a good man]

40. GOP hijacked

Welcome to DU! I wonder how many conservatives realize their party leadership has been hijacked by groups of extremists and crooks. What we see now is NOT the loyal opposition of years past. Principles seem to have fallen victim to lust for political power and greed. Have you read some of the thing said by Grover Norquist? And DO look at the PNAC documents and Leo Strauss...It sure would be nice to have an opposition party again that you can actually discuss issues with.

I think the cycles of history are switching gears...Liberals reigned and over-reached during 50s and 60s and gave way to the conservatives. Now after twenty years of rule the conservatives have gone off the deep end. Its just my opinion, but I think you're on the right side of history now! Clear-minded conservatives and liberals need to start taking this country back before its too late.

[x-g.o.p.er]

41. Couldn't agree more

I think you're spot on, Torches. I have looked at some PNAC stuff, and it is pretty discomforting, to day the least. Like I said in my original post, I learn something new every day

[kentuck]

44. Hey! We're not perfect.....

But I think you have joined a more honest and truthful Party. Not beyond criticsm, mind you. :)

[9215]

45. Interesting. There seems to be

a repeated pattern here. Once someone starts looking beyond the surface of things they grow increasingly uneasy with Bush and Republicanism as it presently exists.

That is why it is so vital to the survival of this country to have an informed electorate. Fundamentally I see the evolution you went through here more as an "awakening" than a conversion.

Hope there are more Repugs out there like you who just need to be informed.

Thanks for the input.

I guess I'll have to amend my position calling for abortion for those carrying the "Republican gene" hee, hee.

PS. I remember back in the 92' or maybe 96' elections Pat Robertson told his flock to get into politics, but once they started listening to all the different views they went over to the Democrats in large numbers. I hope that process repeats itself.

[Tinoire]

46. Welcome to DU and to the Democratic Party!

It's a pleasure to welcome you here. Especially as an AD service-member. Here's to you and to ALL the others serving right now- :toast: and may you stay safe!

Airborne! ;)

[cheapbeemr]

47. Became a repub apostate during reign of Poppy Bush

It became so clear to me that the GOP was nothing but the 'Corporatist' party, not giving a flying f about our American values - within a week of the massacre of the Chinese freedom demonstrators at Tiananmen Square, Poppy sent Brent Scowcroft over to mend fences. We didn't mind apparently as long as the Nike factories kept running. And then truth of the Iraq war came out - how Bush Sr. had continued building up Saddam against the advice of the Pentagon, how April Glaspie told him we didn't care about Kuwait. But the kicker was when Bush promised the Kurds and Shiite's we would help if they would revolt, and he didn't just break the promise, he gave back Hussein's attack helicopters to put down the revolt and ordered American troops not to intervene. I became deeply ashamed to be an American at that point. All this was done for the sake of 'stability,' which is to say oil. And at home, the pattern was becoming unmistakeable of busting the middle class. I still have a couple of Republican friends, but I've lost a couple too.

[Pobeka]

48. Welcome! Thanks for a thoughtful thread.

I have felt strongly that we have to talk calmly and rationally to the swing voters. Your thread has re-enforced that belief.

I was also mostly republican-leaning, back in the late-70's, early 80's. It was the capture of the GOP by religious extremists that caused me to vote against them.

[leesa]

49. Impeachment is going too far when a President lies us into war and

completely fails to act or react appropriately on 9-11?. He has lied to us daily and that's not impeachable? He broke US law by launching an unrpovoked invasion. Those are very clearly impeachable offenses. Why would you say impeachement is going to far.

Impeachment is mandated!

[x-g.o.p.er]

52. Don't Impeach because...

It would look like tit for tat revenge. They impeached Clinton, we'll impeach Bush. Someday, the Republicans will get back in power and the cycle starts all over. It needs to end, and it should end with us. Does that mean compromising principles just to get along? No, it doesn't. It means setting a new discourse so people will start to care about important issues again. Impeachment would look like political revenge, and would ruin whatever political capital that was built-up over the course of the election. (I am assuming a dem victory in Nov).

[Pobeka]

53. I heard Kucinich last night on the topic of impeachment

He said it would be a mistake, because it would garner sympathy for Bush, and turn into a side-show, and very little chance the GOP controlled congress would actually do it. The real event, he says, is to vote Bush out of office.

[Zero Gravitas]

64. What makes you think

that they won't try and impeach the next Dem President anyway?

Bush deserves to be impeached a million times more than Clinton did.

[rman]

71. only looks like tit for tat if one doesn't look at what it's about.

lie about sex vs lie about war.

impeachment would be to kind - it's treason.

Also i wonder if repubs would ever stop themselves from any kind of prosecution of a Dem, "because it would look like tit for tat".

[K8-EEE]

50. I Love The Ex-GOP Guy!

*smooch!*

Honestly my dream scenario is not LEFT LEFT LEFTIST POLITICS WITH NO OTHER VOICE!

My dream is: everyone has a voice, and the best solutions to various problems are arrived at through civil discourse.

Of course when I see Ann Coulter's current "Kerry's A Gigolo!" rant I realize that we are far, far away from losing what President Clinton accurately labeled the Politics Of Personal Destruction.

Best starting point: regime change in November. The truth is flooding in now...only those who refuse to see it would vote for Bush.

[calimary]

51. Hee hee hee - see? I KNEW they were gonna love you here!

Long may you write, AND spread your wisdom, reason, truth, light, and recovery throughout your circle of friends.

We love ya here, ex-g.o.p.er. Same thing for the other former republicans here. It takes guts and courage to realize you've been steered wrong and that your faith and trust have been used as so much doormat material. We have an entire White House full of people who can't take responsibility for their misdeeds, who refuse to admit they were wrong, to be held accountable, and certainly to rectify what they've screwed up. It's gratifying to know more and more people are starting to reject this.

MANY blessings and hugs!

[marie123]

54. I am with you

congratulations, I wonder if the liberals will get sick of us being here?

:-)

I know exactly feel. I have never felt so betrayed and stupid in my life. I truly believed in Bush and what he was trying to accomplish. I thought wonderful things were going to happen in this country to us. I had no idea I would be losing my job and my son to the war and outsourcing. I am just disgusted in everything.

I wish you the best. I have yet to change my party affiliation, but I am hoping the Greens come up with a good candidate.

[Q]

55. Whew...you had to lose your job and son to war before you realized...

...that Bush* was an evil, greedy scumbag?

- This tends to make me believe that many Republicans would still be okay with Bush* if his bullshit hadn't influenced their own lives.

- As to the above question of impeachment: it's a matter of justice and the rule of law. If you're concerned about the 'appearance' of it being revenge for Clinton...then you can't be that interested in the ideal of equal justice.

[marie123]

62. sad isnt it

n/t

[Marymarg]

67. Wait a minute...

Unless one is hopelessly wishy-washy, it takes a paradigm shift for the scales to fall from our eyes and we see the whole picture. This happens at different points in life depending on our circumstances.

For most of us, it takes some kind of personal encounter. So, let's cut some slack here for our new converts and rejoice that they reached that point.

Peace to all. :)

[calimary]

69. Agreed wholeheartedly! Give 'em a break!

When I read posts like the one from Marie123 -

"I have never felt so betrayed and stupid in my life. I truly believed in Bush and what he was trying to accomplish. I thought wonderful things were going to happen in this country to us. I had no idea I would be losing my job and my son to the war and outsourcing. I am just disgusted in everything."

it just makes me feel bad for her. I don't feel anger and outrage at people who were taken in, necessarily. I feel that way about people who TAKE THEM IN, and those who, once taken in, REFUSE to face the reality and resolutely choose to remain blind.

As I said earlier, it takes guts to realize you've been had, and especially then to admit it and accept a change of heart. I can NOT get out of my mind the memory of a woman I know, a fellow artist, who voiced this same kind of notion - that everything was going to be just so much better because bush had arrived. That awful Clinton was gone and couldn't come back. Things were gonna be better. She even declared - to my expressions of shock, anger, and woe, that "I think he's going to unite everyone." I will NEVER forget that. I can remember thinking - well, he's not gonna unite everybody because I WON'T EVER PLAY BALL WITH HIM, so no uniting is gonna involve me. She was so certain of it. Her certainty was bewildering to me at the time. She was eager to regale us with her account of a party she attended where she knew in advance that there were going to be some ardent Gore supporters. She said she made sure she wore her cowboy boots and western shirt to this party so she could prance around and gloat. And she used the word gloat, her eyes twinkling as she said it. I will NEVER forget that as long as I draw breath. I wonder how she's feeling now, but I don't see her much. We sort of orbited out of each other's circles... I wonder if she's confronting the same harsh realities that Marie123 is dealing with, or if she's still in denial and desperately trying to keep herself fooled.

Marie123, I am desperately sorry about your job, and, as a mother, I am even MORE sorry about your son. I hope when you said you lost him that he is NOT a casualty - just off having to fight that stupid, reckless war. NO one here is happy about that. Particularly the many of us here at DU who were out protesting the war, petitioning, calling our congresspeople and senators, writing letters, sending emails, trying to stop the war before it started - so the lives of our guys, including your son, would NOT have to be wasted.

I always held out a teeny bit of hope, for the sake of our troops mainly, that they would not be fighting and dying and getting wounded in vain. That maybe I was the one who had it wrong. Turns out I wasn't. But I take no joy in that. Too many people in our country have suffered too badly. And the only ones who really deserve bad luck and bad times are the republi-CONS and bushies who forced it down our throats. I will be plenty gleeful to see THEM go down. In fact, I who seldom drink will be enjoying champagne that night. Well, maybe not champagne. Maybe a late-harvest riesling. I will be raising my glass to our liberation - Marie123's and ex-g.o.p.er's and their fellows VERY MUCH included.

[rhino47]

56. Welcome to DU and the Dems

The real party of compassion .Your posts are insightful.
:yourock:

[bleedingheart]

57. Good observations and I also want to add that no one likes to

admit that they are wrong and that goes for both left and right.

I know people who are upset with Bush and they even voted for him but there is nothing to be gained by asking them to admit they were wrong.

[Ripley]

59. Interesting.

I've seen the change happen to my father...for a variety of reasons, but the number one reason was that he started reading lots of information on the internet.

I think there are many people like you who are just simply ignorant. No offense! There was a time when I was ignorant (I was always a liberal, but unaware of a lot of things). The more knowledge people have the more they see how Republicans manipulate them and it should make you really mad! I would feel incredibly insulted if I found out my moral hero George Bush was actually a liar (about situations where people DIED), a fake Christian, went AWOL from TANG and basially uses God, poor people and the uneducated as props.

I hope you tell all your friends down there at my favorite summer hang-out (actually Santa Rosa Beach!) what you have learned.

Welcome to DU. :toast:

[trogdor]

60. Welcome to the XGOP club!

Here's your card and your funny hat. (just kidding)

I quit back in '99, soon after the impeachment fiasco. Bush's existence in the Oval Office confirms my suspicions that the GOP is a party run by people who just don't give a shit about the country and foist useful idiots like GWB on the public who are easily manipulated.

I wouldn't say impeachment is out of bounds, merely unlikely given the current situation. No way in hell Dennis Hastert or Tom Delay are going to let something like that fly.

[July]

61. Could you address your conservative friends' views on Democrats?

You say that when you told them you would, indeed, prefer to have a Democrat in charge you were "accused of a lot of things, from being un-American, to disloyal, to dumb ass, and worse."

In my opinion, this is a significant symptom of the sorry state in which we find the nation. It is truly disturbing that your friends and many others on the right, including the ranters like Coulter and Limbaugh (who have a public forum), go virtually unchallenged in asserting that merely being or favoring a Democrat makes one "un-American" or even traitorous.

Do you ever try to counter this notion? Are you successful? How do you respond to it?

I am very interested in hearing from you and other former Republicans or conservatives about this issue.

[x-g.o.p.er]

65. Funny you should ask that....

I was talking to a couple of conservative friends of mine “around the water cooler” earlier today, and the topic moved to politics. They became pretty agitated in their defense of Bush, and I just calmly sat there, trying to explain my points on why I’m not voting for him. The more worked up they got, the calmer I stayed, which made one of them madder and madder.

One buddy of mine claimed that if I didn’t want any more pay raises (I’m military) I should go ahead and vote for a democrat. That’s when I leveled him with all the things that the Bush administration is trying to do with combat pay reductions, VA reductions, (he’s retired military—that really scored points) etc. He was surprised to hear it, and wanted some more information.

Knowledge is the key, backed up with facts, presented in a respectful tone. They started bashing me as a “liberal”, “hippie”, etc., but I didn’t take the bait, stayed on message, and they started to change their tone at the end of the conversation, too. They’re not running around with Kerry or Dean stickers on their ass yet, and probably won’t, but one does want more information, and was genuinely surprised (disappointed?) to hear about the VA issues. One issue at a time, one person at a time, one vote at a time.

Is it going to work all the time? Nope. Are you going to get yelled at and accused of a bunch of garbage? Yeah, probably. Are you going to lose friendships over it? Hopefully not, but if you do, well, were they really your friends in the first place?

[Ripley]

68. Hey if your buddies are military tell them to look at today's paper...

Over in LBN I see the Washington Post is finally asking questions about Smirky's AWOL status in 1972 from TANG. How can anyone in uniform support someone like that rich frat boy going AWOL? Do they also know that he was bumped into TANG over many others more qualified? In fact he scored 25 on his exam. Yet he was given the fastest promotion to Lt. I believe, in the history of promotions given in the US military.

How can that ring good, honest, true, and RIGHT to those conservatives?

[trogdor]

70. Pay raises are a matter of public record.

Tell the guy to go back ten years and see whose pay raises were bigger, Bill Clinton's or W*'s, and to get back to you.

[Doctor_J]

63. What I mostly want

is equal access. I think we Americans can take care of the country, IF we have honest media, fair elections, and adherence to the constitution (1st Amendment Zones?!?!?!?). The first step on the current road to disaster was taken when the ultra-right took over the radio, TV "news", and print. Things got really bad when the 2000 election was overthrown ny the supreme court. If we can just have real media and honest elections, we'll be fine.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

66. Mention the hacked Bill of Rights. I've turned many heads thusly. n/t