The Democrats are not young people friendly

[Classical_Liberal]

There are many politicallty active young people, but they are involved in movements the Democrats are scared of. Like antiglobalization, and the peace movement. They liked Clinton because he proposed National Health Care, and Americorp, programs which concern them. The DLC has abondoned all those issues. They aren't that concerned about perscription drugs or social security for the obvious reason that they are not old people. Any democrat that attracts the young is accused of being George McGovern, and Nixon rhetoric is pulled out denouncing that candidate as attracting "shouters" and rabble rousers. Some of it is lack of civics lessons, and lack of community, but that is the education system and the community we created for them. Our inability to attract young people is really not the fault of the young.

[Resistance Is Futile]

1. More fundamentally

Pushing legislation intended to jail young people by the tens of millions certainly isn't helping matters either.

Nor is the Democratic obsession with passing ever longer mickey-mouse copyright extension acts.

[Aaron]

5. You're right about the p2p copyright issues

I think another one is healthcare for young people. I know Dean has a plan to cover people up to age 25, I think the rest of the candidates have similar plans or even full coverage. Edwards has been addressing college costs which is also a good move. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has any stats on what issues are important to youth politically.

I know most of the younger set that I know are technologically inclined, p2p, broadband, cell phones, spam, etc. If there was a way to work those issues - allow p2p or at least not make it the criminal/civil penalties we have now, force lower broadband rates and greater coverage zones esp. in rural areas, consumer friendly regs on cell phones like number portability that was just passed, effective anti-spam legislation if such can be made. But I'm technologically inclined myself so it may be that's the reason the people I know are too. Maybe marijuana decrim, better college aid, cheaper community/junior colleges, and a good economy with reasonable paying entry level jobs are good youth-issues too?

Edited to add: What about racing/cars/insurance for young people? That Fast and Furious stuff. Maybe encourage open race nights for the kids at local race-tracks so they don't go kill themselves and others on city streets? Investigate the ins. industries rates on kid drivers? I'm just tossing out ideas I don't know about how good any of these are.

[sexybomber]

23. if you can find a candidate that will do all that

I'll vote for him/her in a heartbeat.

[cap]

24. Dean and P2P

I think Dean is pro P2P but the copyright laws need to be changed. Dean took over Lessig's weblog while Lessig went away on vacation so I think he is in tune with Lessig's philosophy on the need to change copyright laws.

[lkinsale]

26. You might take a look at Graham

Because he's 66, some people think he's "old" (HA!). But because he focuses strongly on his grandchildren, his platform includes much for the benefit of the future and young people.


Technology:

* Basic Research: A 10% increase in appropriations for basic research -- about $3 billion above the baseline -- each year.

* Broadband: Current federal funding of about $3 billion per year will double, with the requirement of a state or local match; this will bring public sector investment to a total of $12 billion a year -- roughly one-third of what's needed to make this technology universal. This should leverage the private sector investment necessary to cover the country's entire projected need.

College:


Expanded HOPE Scholarship: Expand HOPE Scholarship tax credit to cover up to $2500 in tuition and educational expenses -- enough to make college fully affordable for virtually every American family -- for a full four years.

Equal Investment in Non-College Advanced Training: Make the same $10,000 for advanced education and training available to kids who choose not to go to college but enter the workforce and seek training to advance their skills. In fact, the Graham plan will provide this level of training to workers at any stage in their careers. The current Lifetime Learning tax credit provides a 20% tax credit for the first $10,000 of tuition and required fees -- President Graham will effectively expand this to 100% of this expense (although recipients will have the option of taking the credit as an upfront voucher for "consumer"-driven job training).

Americore:

Los Angeles, CA - "Yesterday, a bipartisan group of governors urged President Bush to double this years AmeriCorps funding to $200 million to avoid cuts in the program. I strongly urge President Bush to follow the advice of the bipartisan group of governors, including his brother Jeb, and provide increased funds to AmeriCorps this year.

"Just last month I wrote President Bush urging him to provide $200 million to AmeriCorps in this year's supplemental appropriations. Unfortunately, President Bush ignored my pleas and is now ignoring the pleas of the nation's governors. He is allowing this important volunteer service to be slashed by 50 to 95 percent in nearly every state.

NASCAR:


Wood, driving the No. 50 Bob Graham For President Ford, led 67 of the 250.5 mile race's 167 laps, taking over for good on the 140th circuit when Brendan Gaughan dove down pit road for a green flag fuel stop.

[Aaron]

81. Ty for the notes on Graham - his broadband position

was one I was unaware of :)

[imhotep]

2. yes.

Instead of complacently identifying problems, real solutions should be presented. Mandatory voting, more education, incentives, incentives, incentives.

[Bandit]

27. Mandatory voting,

You can't be serious. In America we get to make choices. Like whether we vote or not. If I am un-informed on an issue or say a judge I don't vote because I would hate to vote wrong. I don't mind the un-informed not voting. In fact I think it is good. What I think should be mandatory is a Decent education so people are more informed and more likely to vote their beliefs. A lot of Apathy is because people just don't know about the person or issue and are afraid to vote against themselves through ignorance.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. But events have been so alarming

But events have been so alarming that it may induce some people to vote who wouldn't otherwise.

[LiberalLibra]

4. Maybe a few thousand young people are involved but not in the.....

...numbers needed to make the country set up and take notice. Read this thread by Will Pitt because it sure says a lot. I am of the 50+ crowd and I can't even get my 27 year old son to watch the news and take it seriously.

on edit: Then there is that whole God thing. A person can't seem to be Christian in this country any more without being a rabid rethug and vise versa.

Will Pitt's thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=106677&mesg_id=106677

[Classical_Liberal]

8. Many more than a few thousand are involved

Maybe you never saw the Washington protests, but my 25 and 23 yr old sisters were there with hundreds of thousands of young people. They were sponsered by a Catholic group. The media that didn't take notice was not a media run by young people.

[eyesroll]

19. My 28-year-old husband is running for Congress...

(shameless plug, sorry)...and both of us watch the news.

But, that said, I agree. But interesting things happen when young people run for office. They don't necessarily win, but other young people come out and vote. That's what happened when a friend of mine ran for county office in college -- he got something like 85% of the college students who were eligible to either vote locally or by absentee ballot in their home districts. Sure, it's a small sample (1,100 total students, some of whom were under 18, not US citizens or otherwise ineligible to vote), but considering how apathetic my peers were up until then, it was nothing short of amazing.

We're going to need mega-outreach to young people in this district. If anyone has any suggestions, send them my way. Thanks!

Edited for a couple little things...

[DoctorMyEyes]

6. which came first - the chicken or the egg?

I read this on Wills thread, too.

You can look at it like the dems are not "youth friendly" because they champion old folks issues like social security and prescription drugs - but if (as according to the observation that most activists are elderly) young people are not involved in the political process it's really no big surprise that their biggest issues are not front and center.

The problem may not be the fault of the young - but it's not the fault of the old either.

I don't have a solution to offer - just wanted to make a comment.

(posted by a mid forties dem activist with three young adult and politically active sons. Maybe cause we live and breathe it in our household?)

[Classical_Liberal]

7. It is the fault of the Democratic Leadership

and they don't want the young. I never said they weren't youth friendly because the champion old people issues. I said they weren't youth friendly because those are the ONLY issues they Champion, and that is the absolute truth. They hate dean on the principle that he attracts the young.

Helping find affordibable daycare would also attract the young, particularly young women. Strengthening the Unions would give both young men and young women a reason to be involved. Those issues were deliberately killed by our Leaders.l

[DoctorMyEyes]

9. ohhhhhhh.....

I didn't realize that you were talking about the DLC or DNC.

Fuck them!

As a Dean supporter myself, the only good thing I see coming from the DLC Dean bashing is that they are finally, and very convincingly revealing their republican shill agenda.

I don't think they hate Dean because he attracts young people. I think it's because he's not on their short leash.

[lcordero]

10. I think that the DLC is to the Democratic Party as what

Cointelpro was to activist movements.

The DLC has gotten the Democratic Party to erroneously snub "special interest" groups. Young adults, seniors, blue-collar(union?) workers, Latinos, African-Americans, and women are a few of the groups that come to mind when "special interest" groups are mentioned. If these groups are alienated then is there going to be a base anymore?

[ulysses]

11. youth is fueled by idealism and passion

Of course this isn't about slamming older Democratic generations, and pragmatism and compromise have important places in the overall scheme of things, BUT C_L is absolutely right. When your party steadfastly avoids anything that contains even a hint of idealism, young folks will either join non-party efforts like the anti-globalization movement, give up and follow the siren song of Young Republican greed, or tune out politics altogether.

[KG]

12. the DLC has decided that the best way to win

is to get repooks to vote dem.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Pukes

will never vote Dems that's why they are Pukes.

We need to reach out to the 30 - 35% of people who belong to no political party.

[buddhamama]

17. interesting.

what are DEMs that vote Puke called then?

i agree with you on the reaching out part but not limited to political affiliation because registering them is not enough.
the focus should be on the reasons why, 50% of the electorate doesn't vote and how can the Party inspire them to do so.

Clinton did it and other DEMs should too, bring the message directly to the young people, citizens in general.
and i'm not refering to fund-raisers either.
town hall meetings-small local free events-where the informality and atmosphere allows for real discussion and interaction.

too many pols ask for money before someone has had the chance to get a real feel for the candidate (not the tv image) and that is a big turnoff imho. for another reason too, because young and old alike feel they have been priced out of politics/civics.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. That's Too Easy

Dems who vote Puke are traitors (LOL)

Young people liked Clinton for the same reason alot of us did. His cool, laid back demeanor.

[quinnox]

14. Not all Democrats are part of the DLC

The post is confusing, the headline is "Democrats are not young people friendly" and then the DLC is talked about.

[Classical_Liberal]

15. I believe most of the party leadership are dlc inclined

. Particularly the pollsters and strategists.

[buddhamama]

16. some thoughts from young people

can be found here
http://www.fairvote.org/contest/index.html

[blondeatlast]

18. Please don't assume that the DLC represents the mainstream

Democratic Party. We could call the DLC the "corporate welfare" centrists.

The DLC speaks for me justt about as well as J. D. Hayworth does.

[Classical_Liberal]

20. Much to my chagrin, they have determined the agenda for

some time. That has nothing to do with whether they are mainstream or not.

[Bandit]

45. And that is why Red Ink Republicans have control of all branches of

government. When Democrats did their own talking and garnered their own support Democrats won. When we allow the DLC to run roughshod over regular folks we lose. We need to go back to Basics . Democracy 101. What is a Democrat and what ideology do they believe in and follow?

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. Exactly....or Hannity for that matter.

I couldn't be farther away from the ideals of the DLC.

My question is when does young people become old people? I am currently 33, and holding, and consider myself young. Does the original poster consider my young? My concerns are the same, I politically active i.e. campaigning for the first time in my life. It never occurred to me at 25 or younger. Just my opinion.

[ringmastery]

21. well

One of the problems is most young people don't vote and don't have a history of voting. Seniors vote.

[Loonman]

25. Maybe not MTV like Clinton

But the candidates need to go on "hip" shows.

Poppy bush couldn't connect with the young and it hurt his re-election bid(among other things).

[sangha]

28. I disagree

The Democratic Party supports many policies that are "freindly" to the youth of America.

Minimum wage increases
Job Training
College loans and grants
Public Education
Health Care, particularly for children


The problem is that the young are not particularly friendly to the DNC

[Classical_Liberal]

30. I am speaking of 20 and 30 somethings.

. The Minimum wage increased have been few and far between of late. The minimum wage is incredibly low in this country, and the DLC has chosen to keep it that way. In addition it is not offered to people who are under 18, and training wages are still allowed. People are also fired if they try and start unions. You have no ideas about what to do about disparity in school funding between poor and rich communities. The issue isn't even on the radar screen. The health care for children or adults has not materialized, largely because of democratic defectors. The loans just saddle young people with alot of debt, early on, and aren't being offered to as many people. there aren't as many grants to low income young people as their were. I don't even know what the heck your talking about on job training.

Most of those issues are also really old. Public education has been advocated by American progressive since the country was founded. That isn't any big woop. Minimum wage and job training is a new deal thing, both of them have been slashed relative to the 70s. Student Loans are WWII era things. It is just old issues, and you are fighting a tedious war of attrition instead of advancing ANYTHING new.

[RobinA]

32. Agree

This is politics. Politicians have a product to sell and they are going to advertise it to possible buyers. Young people (and others) sit around crying that no one is wooing them. Boo hoo. Get out there and be worth the politicians' while and you will find politicians wanting to sell to you.

Women proved that this works. Women's issues are discussed because women began to be a significant force as voters. If young people want to have issues that interest them they need to make it productive for politicians to discuss these issues. The AARP didn't sit around waiting for politicians to realize they exist, they the made it mandatory that they be acknowledged.

[Classical_Liberal]

35. They are out there for several candidates.

and issues.

[Resistance Is Futile]

83. Waiting for supporters is not an option

The Democratic party is not in a position to wait for supporters to come to it. If the party is to avoid becoming permanently irrelevant it must actively seek out supporters wherever it can find them.

[buddhamama]

34. you are being presumptuous

that the policies that you have listed as "friendly" to young people are THE policies that they are in fact interested in. your post doesn't speak kindly of them either,imo;as if young people don't consider the world outside of their front door. young people are able to look at the broader picture, and they can be quite empathetic.

[sangha]

36. OK. How about these "youth friendly" Dem Party policies?

The environment
Social Security
Free Trade (most Dems are either against or want protections for labor and the environment)
Multilateralism

If not these, then what issues and policies are they interested in? (Reminder: "young" does not mean "liberal")

[Classical_Liberal]

38. None of thoseare young people issues.

Social Security, is mostly for the elderly and the handicapped. Young people are never elderly and the least likely to be handicapped

The environment, free trade and mulilateralism aren't young people issues either.

[Classical_Liberal]

39. None of those are young people issues.

Social Security, is mostly for the elderly and the handicapped. Young people are never elderly and the least likely to be handicapped

The environment, free trade and mulilateralism aren't young people issues either.

Bush is for a clean enviroment too

Fair trade. How did chapter 11 slip through in the Nafta provision.

If the Dems are for multilateralism why did so many vote allow Bush's unilateralism?

[sangha]

41. Then what are the issues?

You're good at saying "No". Tell me, which issues are "youth-friendly"?

[Classical_Liberal]

43. multilateralism a would be good if it weren't a platitude

When it came right down to it, the dems allowed Bush to be unilateral. They could have required Bush get UN approval. They didn't. they just asked him nicely. The minimum wage thing would be good too if it weren't so minimal. Frankly unions need to be stenthened. I think joining one should be a civil rights issue, and if you are fired for starting one you should be able to sue for having your civil rights violated. I think more needs to be done on the daycare front. It is really stressing out families, particularly the poor. I would like to see national health insurance, and we would have it if it weren't for so many democrats not supporting it. Public Education clearly needs some revamping particularly in poor districts.

[sangha]

44. Did you answer the question??

I asked which issues are the young-friendly issues. You mention strengthed, day care, national health insurance, and public ed, all issues where the Dems have youth-friendly positions. You may not be happy with everything they've done with respect to some of those issues, but there's no doubt that, in general, the Dems are on the right side of those issues.

So how aren't the Dems youth-freindly? IMO, it's the other way around - The young aren't Dem-friendly

[Classical_Liberal]

46. They support multilateralism like bush supports Americorp.

All talk no action. They are allowing those old New Deal programs to die slowly, instead of quickly. They won't back up any of what they support with action. I just think they are boring, and old, and have no new ideas on anything. What is the point of minimum wage if it is never raised? I still don't understand your point about job training. What job training? I believe the Banks would give out loans and student loans if no democrat existed. That is what banks do. Making it impossible to fire people for union organizing would be a new thing, and would affect many young people.

[sangha]

47. You can't answer the question

All you can do is complain that "the Dems are not youth friendly" but you can't even explain what "youth friendly" is.

[Classical_Liberal]

48. I did answer it. I want action and not platitudes.

. The democrats supported unilateralism rather than the professed multilateralism. They support a minimum wage but won't raise it. Enough of them didn't support national health care to kill it. The dlc doesn't support national health care at all. They won't make it easier to organize unions. They are doing nothing to reverse the death of the union. Why don't you tell me about his job training they supposedly support. I am fascinated really.

[sangha]

50. Action?

So if the Dems voted to ban partial-birth abortions that would be "youth-friendly" because it's "action, not platitudes"?

I think there's a bit more to it. You are being overly simplistic in your efforts to promote the "anything Dem is bad" propoganda.

[Classical_Liberal]

54. Since I didn't say "anything is dem is bad"

who is the one being over simplistic? I listed specific actions that could be taken that would be exciting and youth freindly, and none of them had anything to do with partial birth abortion.

[buddhamama]

40. i don't need the reminder,sangha

this latest list is more representative of "liberal" youth.

i think the "liberal" youth would like some respect not disdain- this particular critic is not directed at the DEM party but the DLC. this is where the GOP has excelled compared to the DEM party imo.

[sangha]

42. I'm confused about this "respect"

It seems to me that the formulation and promotion of policies that further the interests of the young is one of the strongest ways to demonstrate a political party's respect for the young. But it's obvious that you disagree so, what exactly should the DNC be doing to demonstrate it's respect for the young?

[buddhamama]

53. then you must not understand respect

it is more than giving people want they want. it also includes listening and understanding.
if i say, i want a new car and the DNC gives me one but it is a SUV than obviously they haven't been paying attention to me.

it is about respecting who and what they are.
as ulysses mentioned up above idealism and passion, respect them for it, do not offer your disdain.

we hear all the time about appealing to the middle-class the soccer moms,etc,etc. not as much attention or respect is given to the youth.

[sangha]

56. I understand respect

enough to know that people who claim others are ignorant don't know enough about respect themselves.

it also includes listening and understanding

And doesn't providing the things they're asking for a sign that they are being listened to?

i want a new car and the DNC gives me one but it is a SUV than obviously they haven't been paying attention to me

Oh, I see. They don't get EXACTLY what they've been asking for. I'm just one person, but I'd be pretty happy with a free SUV.

it is about respecting who and what they are

Your claim about a lack of respect has no basis in fact. The only support I see for that opinion is the way, and others, keep repeating it.

we hear all the time about appealing to the middle-class the soccer moms,etc,etc. not as much attention or respect is given to the youth.

You keep repeating that respect is not given, but when I've asked how the Dem Party might show respect, all I've gotten is nebulous sloganeering about "action, not platitudes" and "paying attention" followed by a repetition of the "fact" that the Dems don't respect youth.

How about some specific actions the Dems could take to show that they do respect youth?

[buddhamama]

62. read my post further up in the thread

the original poster was addressing the DLC and young people not the DNC

and on that note in regards to the DLC
Human Rights
Free Trade
Enviroment
Campaign Finance

and best of all elite activists.

[sangha]

70. I apologize for not being clear

but I do agree with you that the DLC is not youth-friendly. Both their policies and their rhetoric is hostile to the young and their interests. However, I don't think the DLC controls the DNC to the extent that some seem to think it does.

[buddhamama]

76. okay

i guess we were both unclear.

[buddhamama]

71. btw,sangha

i didn't miss your little swipe at me either "enough to know that people who claim others are ignorant don't know enough about respect themselves"

deleted message confusion cleared up

[drdigi420]

31. Until the Democrats

take on the drug war, they will continue to lose young people and black people, who are affected most by the illegal war on drugs.

[Armstead]

33. A relevant article

The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030804&c=1&s=featherstone

article | Posted July 17, 2003

Antiwar Students Rock the Vote
by Liza Featherstone

Three years ago, Chantel Azadeh, 23, an antiwar activist at the University of California, Irvine, would never have imagined herself working on an electoral campaign. Ghafari, who belongs to an anarchist group called People Organized against War, Empire and Rulers, wasn't exactly the incremental-change type--and she certainly didn't see much difference between the Democrats and the Republicans. But 2004 may be different. "The last two years have done a number on a lot of people's minds," she says. "You might be surprised to hear this from an anti-authoritarian, an anarchist, but this election I plan on getting involved. I think it's crucial that we get Bush out of the White House."

Protests against Bush's war on Iraq drew more students than any other recent protest movement, and they were younger, more working-class and more racially and geographically diverse. Now it looks as if that protest energy may provide momentum for the 2004 elections. The enthusiastic volunteerism of right-wing students played a significant role in electing George W. Bush. It stands to reason, then, that progressive students, if equally savvy, could help toss him out. Azadeh is now planning to devote herself to that project, joining many other antiwar students who have been skeptical about electoral politics in the past.

A survey of young people conducted for MTV by Peter D. Hart Research Associates found that one out of every twelve respondents had attended an antiwar protest--and many more said the war had affected their voting plans. Fifty-three percent of those eligible to vote planned to pull the lever in 2004, a dramatic increase over recent past elections. "We're poised to see the highest participation yet," says Jehmu Greene, executive director of Rock the Vote. Though two-thirds of the respondents in the MTV poll said they supported the war, 54 percent believed that those who protested the war were "acting patriotically" and only 41 percent said they would vote for Bush. These numbers suggest ambivalence about Bush and good will toward the antiwar movement--a real opening for young peace activists who want to build a voting bloc of their peers.

<snip>

Whether or not any particular presidential campaign attracts mass student support, Bush's aggressive warmongering and perilous mishandling of the economy have undoubtedly drawn many young people into electoral politics. But as much as they want to defeat Bush, most are not willing to support a prowar Democrat. If Dean doesn't win the nomination, Rosenblith says he'll vote Green. Ben Waxman, who just graduated from Springfield Township High School in Erdenheim, Pennsylvania, and an organizer with NYSPC, says if the Democrats nominate Lieberman (that Gallup poll put him as the top choice among Democrats), he'll abandon electoral work for protest and direct action.

Many young peace activists remain unimpressed by the pool of candidates and will be tough to recruit into electoral work. To them, participating in the Democratic Party is a distraction from building a long-term alternative to what Ralph Nader called the "Republicrats"--or building a mass movement that could make such an alternative viable.

Yvonne Liu, a Columbia University senior who has been active in the campus antiwar movement and in several anti-authoritarian groups, predicts that many more young activists like herself will vote in '04. But Liu won't go to work for a candidate, which she says would mean "getting co-opted by our market democracy."



<snip>

[sangha]

37. Good article

However, I think it's important to note that according to polls, the young were more likely to support the invasion of Iraq than other age groups. Seniors were the most likely to oppose the war.

I've notcied that few posters in this thread seem to equate "young" with "liberal"

[buddhamama]

49. yeah

and i've noticed a few posters just like to see their thoughts in print. kinda like those persons who love the sound of their own voice.

since this was a thread specificly about the Democratic party and young people i thought it was a given we weren't talking about right-wing conservatives.

[sangha]

52. The tendency of the young to support the invasion of Iraq

is not limited to those who are right-wing conservatives. Many moderates, and even some liberals, supported the invasion of Iraq.

I'd also point out that the issue in this thread isn't just the "Dem Party" and "Dem youths" - It's whether or not the Dems are "youth-friendly" (whatever that means. I'm not entirely sure we're all thinking the same thing here)

[acropolis]

55. True.

Democrats should focus on the fact that Bush misled the country into going to war (for his own profit etc.). Saying that we shouldn't have invaded is sort of a moot point now, and is just going to splinter what's left even further.

And the Democratic party isn't really youth-friendly. There isn't much excitement, and any ideology is being choked to death by the DLC and friends. There is little to attract people who want to change things.

[sangha]

59. Thank you

and I think you came closer than anyone else in this thread by describing the problem as being caused by a lack of "excitment". IMO, the policies and ideologies of the left are VERY youth-friendly. Unfortunately, the Dems have a huge PR problem. They don't know how to "SELL IT!!"

[Classical_Liberal]

64. Are new deal programs like minimum wage and Social Security change

or defense? National Health Insurance would be change. Getting rid of Taft hartly would be real change. Why doesn't anything new ever come down the democratic pike. Why is it all old accomplishments? The dlc are true conservatives in that respect.

[RobinA]

84. You're Telling Me

that getting rid of Taft-Hartley would pull in the young people!?!? I find this hard to believe. On the other hand, I do agree that it's the same old issues over and over again.

Unfortunately, I think this is a result of a poll-tested campaign. No longer do politicians seem to say, "Look people, you should be interested in this issue and here's why..." They seem to be more interested in following the electorate than leading it. I think that if polls showed that 80% of all voters favored invading Disney World, you'd soon see tanks rolling through downtown Orlando. As a boomer, I put this concept of "leadership" squarely on the shoulders of boomers.

[buddhamama]

67. then you read only what you wanted to read

because selling it has been the focus of a few posts in this thread.

[Classical_Liberal]

57. liberal youths are more involved in politics than moderates

who are most part of the squishy middle of all age groups anyway, but liberal youth aren't all that involved in the dems, and there is no denying that is because the dems shun their issues. They could launch an effort to remove the chapter 11 provision of Nafta. Have they done this. NO. They could have force Bush to be multilateral, but they didn't. Look at the way the dlc is treating Dean. Anyway, you aren't really anyone friendly, but to establishment dems, so I don't understand why you are so insulted. I think you would argue if someone said you were argumentative.

[sangha]

61. I won't be responding to your personal attacks

.

[Classical_Liberal]

65. I don't think that was a personal attack.

You and the others, are trying to prove you love young people by griping about them, and by telling us why soccer moms and seniors are more of a priority than them.

[buddhamama]

60. it is about all those things

youths in general including those who currently don't vote.

"I've notcied that few posters in this thread seem to equate "young" with "liberal"

well yeah, because it was about the Democratic party and young people and why the DEMs are not seen as "friendly" towards them.

the Democratic party is not equated with young right-wing conservatives. or do you disagree?

[hotphlash]

63. I think many do (or did in my case) was because...

we've never had to go through any hardships. We never had to deal with a trauma such as 9/11 and the war seemed pro-active. Doing something is better than nothing, went the rationale. The older Dems saw all the crap in other administrations.

[sangha]

72. I agree with that

In talking to people about the crimes of the BFEE and the dangers these crimes create, I get a lot of "it couldn't happen here". I don't get much of that from seniors, and IMO it's because they lived through it so they know that it definitely CAN happen here.

[Aaron]

80. Perhaps so, but how many for the war will base a vote on it?

In considering youth I think it may be important to remember that few participate electorally compared to other groups. To that extent a survey of youth in general may hold less weight than one of likely - or even previous - youth voters. Do you recall if those surveys on the war addressed young people likely to vote? I know I saw many that found results which you've repeated here, but I don't recall the specifics of the survey groups for those.

[sangha]

82. Good point. I don't know

The polls didn't say anything about "likely voters". IMO your question sort of echoes mine - "What does "youth-freindly" mean?"

I'm not sure that any particular position on the invasion of Iraq is "youth-freidnly" or "youth-hostile". I guess it depends on what would motivate these youths to vote.

[Southsideirish]

51. At Dean Meet ups & rallies - mostly young people .

All the ones I have been to have been people half my age and younger - I'm late 50's.

[noonwitch]

58. Dean appears to attract the young crowd

Whether he wins the primaries or not, he's definitely an assest to the party in that area. I don't think that the GOP appeals more to young people.

[FightinNewDem]

66. More Ignorant Bleatings about the DLC

Yeah, yeah, the DLC is the root of all evil, from the tax code to the weather to the heartbreak of psoriasis.

If you knew anything at all about the DLC, you would know that the group is the intellectual parent of the national service/AmeriCorps program. The DLC was issuing policy papers on the need for what is now AmeriCorps back in 1987, long before the "Democratic Wing" decided to support such a program. It was a pair of DLC governors, Bill Clinton and Ray Mabus, who launched the community service pilot program, Delta Service Corps, that formed the basis of the current national system.

Oh, and look at the DLC's 100 to Watch roster. Young legislators like Gabby Giffords, Karen Carter, Charlie Murphy, Barry Finegold, Peter Sullivan, Steven Jones, city officials like Rick Kriseman and Kwame Kilpatrick, statewide officials like Jonathan Miller and Jack Markell, all in their thirties or early forties, all making a positive difference, and all DLCers.

But facts are stubborn things. It's just so much more entertaining to bash, bash, bash.

[Classical_Liberal]

68. Jimmy Carter proposed it too

It isn't a DLC invention, but I think the DLC was better ten years ago than today anyway, so what is your point.

[FightinNewDem]

78. My point

...is that you bash the DLC for not supporting AmeriCorps, even though they were the ones who put the issue on the map, who spearheaded the legislative push for passage, who laid the political and policy groundwork for the program. By attempting to say that the DLC is somehow responsible for the GOP gutting Americorps belies either an ignorance of the issue or a disturbing willingness to cast aside the facts when they get in the way of a desire to indulge in DU's favorite pasttime, mindless New Dem bashing.

[Classical_Liberal]

79. I never said anything about them being responsible for gutting

Americorps.

[chadm]

69. That's exactly right

That's why I joined and volunteered for the Green Party. I don't care whether or not we have a chance of winning, I have to stand up for what I believe in. I don't have patience or, more accurately, blind faith in a party that gives you just enough so you think it can change, and then never does.

The Democratic Party is "the institution's" way of DEALING WITH people like us...giving us something to believe in without actually allowing us to change anything.

I think people are too patient. If we dropped the blind faith that things will be different in the future...and instead looked to the actual record of the past and the status quo today...and the answers are obvious.

[Classical_Liberal]

73. Not going there with you. The leaders of the party can be changed

much easier than the part of the constitution mandating the electoral college. That would actually require a violent revolution in my opinion, because the red states have to agree to getting rid of the electoral college and they won't. The green party is not prepared to change the electoral college, or commit to violent revolution, thus I am opting to throw out the dlc bumbs in the democrats and the prospect is getting more likely be the day. The green party promises change it can't deliver either, so by your standard it is also part of "the institution"

[PROGRESSIVE1]

74. Clinton and the DLC

For a DLCer, I was greatly impressed by Mr. Clinton. I had some disagreements such as:

-the war in Kosovo
-repealing the Glass-Stegal Act(this forbade, Banking, Insurance, and Finance companies from merging/passed by FDR)
-welfare "reform" (which I saw as nothing more as a domestic brutalization by the Gingrich Republiklans)

The new DLC is nothing more than a bunch of Corporate Shrills. What happened to the moderate stances of Clinton? Where's the "Progressive Internationalism" Mr. Bayh??? What about civil liberties/rights???

I'm asking, :wtf: HAPPENED???????????????

[PROGRESSIVE1]

75. Clinton and the DLC

For a DLCer, I was greatly impressed by Mr. Clinton. I had some disagreements such as:

-the war in Kosovo
-repealing the Glass-Stegal Act(this forbade, Banking, Insurance, and Finance companies from merging/passed by FDR)
-welfare "reform" (which I saw as nothing more as a domestic brutalization by the Gingrich Republiklans)

As a whole, he was great! He brought together all branches of the party and look what Al From and Bruce Reed have done to us!

The new DLC is nothing more than a bunch of Corporate Shrills. What happened to the moderate stances of Clinton? Where's the "Progressive Internationalism" Mr. Bayh??? What about civil liberties/rights???

I'm asking, :wtf: HAPPENED???????????????

[PROGRESSIVE1]

77. Clinton and the DLC

For a DLCer, I was greatly impressed by Mr. Clinton. I had some disagreements such as:

-the war in Kosovo
-repealing the Glass-Stegal Act(this forbade, Banking, Insurance, and Finance companies from merging/passed by FDR)
-welfare "reform" (which I saw as nothing more as a domestic brutalization by the Gingrich Republiklans)

As a whole, he was great! He brought together all branches of the party and look what Al From and Bruce Reed have done to us!

The new DLC is nothing more than a bunch of Corporate Shrills. What happened to the moderate stances of Clinton? Where's the "Progressive Internationalism" Mr. Bayh??? What about civil liberties/rights???

I'm asking, :wtf: HAPPENED???????????????

[revcarol]

85. Kucinich is attracting young people in droves.

The combination of hope and practicality...

They know they have no future unless a Democrat with vision and great ideas is in the WH.They see Pell Grants going down the tubes. High school grads can't get jobs because there aren't any.They want to live the American Dream, can't without LEADERSHIP.

Registered a 20 yr. old today.

[Pepperbelly]

86. and a lot of them are f*cking dittoheads ....

So what's up with that?

Your assumption is that they are left leaning and I do not believe that the evidence supports that. Some are. Many are not.