Reminder: the goal is to unseat bushco!

[robbedvoter]

It seems some of you get so carried away with your chosen candidates, you see other Dems as the enemy. I don't even see DLC as the enemy - misguided as they are. Let's keep a sense of proportion about what we dislike the most.
I think each of you should support your candidate best you can and then, also enjoy all the good statements the others make.
Today, I was happy to hear Sharpton on Liberia & others, Graham on 9.11, Kuchinich on bringing the troops home.
I even was glad Biden managed to say something about bush&truth. Try to understand the common goal, while porsuing your own - maybe then we won't form a circular firing squad.
In the end, any Dem is better than W (plus the ones we most dislike won't really get nominated)

1. maybe we should aim a little higher

maybe the goal should be for people all over the world to live better lives.

[maine_raptor]

3. Yes, but

that's a long term goal..........in the short term:

THROW THE RASCALS OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[robbedvoter]

5. I am talking about step one - reversing the damage

If the fascists are out, the higher goal is realistic. Otherwise it's just a distraction from the concrete actions we need to take. If a patient is bleeding to death, you don't treat his cancer, but stop the bleeding first.

[maine_raptor]

7. Right

and in this case the hemorhage is the BushCo.

[unfrigginreal]

2. I agree wholeheartedly

But, what should you do if another candidates supporters are trashing yours?

[MercutioATC]

4. Play the "DU Drinking Game" (link provided)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=108&topic_id=9385&mesg_id=9385

[Warpy]

8. Keep your focus on the real issue

That issue is getting rid of Bush and getting rid of as many GOP congressmen as we can so that this gang can be tried for their crimes.

If we don't do this, we won't have much of a country left.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. When your candidate is attacked by other Dems

When your candidate is attacked by other Dems - respond forcefully - but not angrily. With the truth - not BS. Defend but don't attack in return. It's not like you can't discuss the opponent's negatives - but with respect, and by contrasting with your own candidates positives. And there is a fine line between attacking and pointing out a candidate's negatives - but I think we usually know where it is, if we are honest with ourselves.

For example, let's say candidate "A" had a policy position on welfare that really stuck in the craw of a lot of people. I don't think it would be appropriate to bring that up in a thread about Iraq or gun control. That's just sniping, heckling. But if it was a pro-"A" thread trumpeting how that candidate was going to help the poor, it would be entirely appropriate to ask "How do you explain policy statement 'X'? In contrast, candidate 'B' believes 'Y'." On the other hand, just saying something like: "Candidate "A" is a pig grinding the faces of the poor because of 'X'" - even if it's true, it hasn't helped anyone, because it's just not an effective way to get your message across.

But sometimes the most powerful statement, the strongest thing to do is take the blows, and respond with dignity. That doesn't mean being passive and allowing mis-statements and mischaracterizations go unanswered of course.

Well that's this nobody's opinion. And I'll admit to some embarassment at some of the attacks I've seen supporters of my candidate launch.

Peace.

[msanger]

17. ask them to take the pledge and...

to stop trashing your candidate. Don't trash back. You might even ask them if they would support your candidate if he were nominated, and tell them that you would support theirs.

While DU is a great place for discussions and getting things accomplished, pissing contests here don't do a whole lot to change the larger world.

ALL of us - working for our candidates -- will do a lot to chage the larger world.

the pledge is at

[grytpype]

6. YES! Very wise words.

The 2004 election is not about getting gay marriage, or saving the environment, or improving social services, or any other damned thing besides GETTING THE UNELECTED MORON OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE. That is an absolute requirement for ANYTHING good happening.

So if Kerry is the candidate but you don't like his vote on Iraq, do the World a favor and support him anyway. Try to see the big picture here, people. It was ideologically pure dimwits voting for Nader that gave us the Littlest King in the first damn place. Don't make the same mistake twice!

10. The 2004 election

is about getting people to think that they can change the system with a vote. No matter who gets voted into office the troops will stay in Iraq and Afghanistan. The economy will continue to get worse and the PATRIOT Act and other police state tendencies will only advance.

I intend to vote but not with any illusions about what a vote can bring. My only point in voting is to vote for the most anti authoritarian, anti fascist out there and by doing so along with others show that there is a significant amount of people in the US either ready or nearly ready to go all the way.

[grytpype]

11. If you don't think it makes any difference whether Bush wins...

...wake up. Bush and his backers are the biggest threat to American democracy since the Founding. He must go. Voting just "to send a message" is the most pathetic self-destructive act imaginable. Voting to get the fuck rid of Bush might actually do some good.


Really, wake up man.

15. I awoke months ago

It is a mistake to overestimate the importance of one indvidual in a system. George Bush works for the ruling elite. What we're seeing now is a struggle within the ruling elite which they would like to channel into an election. They are the ones making the policies, choosing the leaders, etc. Voting is playing their game. Feeling like you've done something important afterwards is the height of liberal delusion.

Realistically what do you think any of the candidates are going to do for you? It's too late to repair the social and economic damage done by the Bush led ruling class. The tax cuts are here to stay as are the PATRIOT Act and the "War on Terrorism". If not one of the candidates can deliver on these issues then what's the point of voting? The point is to keep us from spending our time thinking about how to really change the situation and to keep us out of the streets demanding and creating real change.

It is a generalization that is generally true that liberals use voting as a form of confession, absolving all the sins of inaction in their daily lives. Well that sin of omission has become the cause of our problems. For real change to occur we have to change ourselves, our outlook and the way we relate to eachother and the world around us.

I'm getting ahead of myself. Do you really want change?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

9. That's what makes a party

That's what makes a party - folks who may have different views but who can come together around the things they have in common.

It is natural however to have some conflict and jockeying in order to find that common ground - just don't get too carried away about it.

GO DEMS!

[Nashyra]

12. As much as I would like to see a Gore/Clark

ticket, I think it's possible that either Gore is now waiting for Clark to make up his mind or Clark is waiting for Gore.

[bpilgrim]

14. we are setting the agenda for a NEW WORLD ORDER

which unfortunately clashes with some of the ideas of some of the establishment, but i am sure they will 'get over it' cause... they aint got a choice.

i think talking about those issues are healthy and raising them is critical if we want the country to reflect our - we the peoples - ideals instead of mostly corp america.

there is gonna be a cathartic change in polotics in the comming decade and it is unavoidable after the recent effents this country has been through and for those politicos who don't see the writing on the wall and ADAPT they will be washed over by this new wave of change that is certainly comming.

the only question is which side is willing to fight the hardest to WIN.

shoot i like the fact that we can come here and make known our feelings in a public forum, shoot this is the best bar in america imo, and in keeping with the spirit of american politics it can get real rip-roarin when done in the right atmosphere ;->

as long as we don't act like mindless drones without anything to back up our opinions then i would agree with you... a waste of time.

thats why i wish we had a way to let everybody score everybodys posts - like /. - in keeping with a democratic priciples to help improve the signal to noise ratio.

peace

peace

[lcordero]

16. I'm sorry but every time I see "ABB" I get the feeling more & more

that the Democratic Primaries are going to get fixed. I definitely do not want to put a crook with a (D) in the WH that is going to stay with the status quo. I want the Democratic Party to start cleansing itself now, I don't want a false promise that its going to start after the 2004 election.