Californians may vote both NO on the recall AND for a replacement

[Jack Rabbit]

This is important. Please keep this kicked.

In California on October 7, no one needs to vote any particular way on the recall question in order to cast a vote for a replacement candidate. One may vote to retain Davis as governor on the recall question and still vote for the candidate of his choice in the replacement election.

I will vote No on the recall question. I will also vote for the liberal/left (or, if necessary, centrist) candidate most likely to deny Darrell Issa and his ilk the governor's office. I urge all to do the same.

I have just seen again posted by a member of our community in good faith that one must vote Yes on the recall question in order to vote for a replacement candidate. That is not true, nor was it ever true. Until yesterday, one was required to vote either Yes or No on the recall question in order to vote for a replacement candidate. Yesterday, a federal court loosened even that requirement and ruled that one may vote for a replacement candidate regardless of how he votes or whether he votes at all on the recall question.

One may vote for a replacement candidate regardless of how one votes on the recall question.

The misconception that one must vote Yes on the recall in order to have any say in who succeeds Davis should the recall question carry plays into the hands of the rightwing drivers of this abuse of direct democracy.

Please spread the word. If you know anybody who is misinformed, set that person straight. The future of California may depend on it.

[leftyandproud]

1. yes but..

their ballots will be invalid...If you vote no, it won't even bother reading who you want to replace davis

[Mz Pip]

4. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

You can vote against the recall AND for a replacement. And they do have to read the ballot.

That said, I will probably vote "No' and not vote for a replacement. Why encourage them?

MzPip
:dem:

[Jack Rabbit]

5. You should vote for a replacement candidate

Because if you don't, Darrell Issa and his friends will.

[Mz Pip]

8. Who would that be?

If the Dems ran a candidate I MIGHT consider it but who am I supposed to vote for? A vote against some random person or no vote at all comes out the same as far as Issa is concerned.

MzPip
:dem:

[Jack Rabbit]

12. My vote

I will vote for the liberal/left (or, if necessary, centrist) candidate most like to deny Issa (or Bill Simon or Tom McClintock) the governor's office.

There will be an article on tomorrow's DU home page concerning announced and possible replacement candidates in the California recall election. You might like to read it.

[ronnykmarshall]

41. Loretta Sanchez

She is talking about running if Dianne Feinstein does not.

[Jack Rabbit]

44. I notice Al Checchi is, too

Checchi, for those outside California who don't know or inside California who have forgotten, is a millionaire who lost the Democratic gubernatorial primary to Davis in 1998. He financed his own campaign.

Checchi is considering running especially if Feinstein does not. See the thread I started on EA this morning.

I'll take Sanchez over Checchi, thanks.

However, this thing is that these Democrats are less likely to run if Feinstein does. The Democrats could be just as united behind a Vote No/Vote for Feinstein as they are behind the simple vote No strategy. And they would feel a lot more comfortable about it.

[MoonGod]

9. That's not true...

... one can vote EITHER WAY on the recall question in order to vote on a replacement candidate.

However, to be completely clear, one MUST VOTE on the recall question in order to vote on the replacement ballot. I even heard Gray Davis himself misstate this fact on CNN the other day.

If you do not vote either yes or no on the recall vote, then you can't vote on the 2nd half of the ballot, either.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. A federal court invalided that yesterday (Monday)

The court ruled that one may vote for a replacement candidate regardless of how or whether he votes on the recall question.

It's up to the California Secretary of State to appeal the ruling or not. Frankly, I don't think it will make much difference.

What Davis said was true when he said it. It isn't now.

[Terwilliger]

32. Was that even in question?

I thought the law was always that you could vote YES/NO and vote for replacement...I thought the ruling yesterday stated that you could vote for a replacement candidate without voting on the YES/NO question :shrug:

[Jack Rabbit]

38. You have it right

However, my post was in response to an assertion that one had to vote Yes on the recall question in order to have the replace vote counted. That is not true.

[Brian Sweat]

45. You are absolutely correct

And it is quite frightening the level of ignorance here on DU surrounding this matter. Even after we have spent so much time trying to explain it to people here on DU, there is so much misinformation going around. Imagine how confused the less informed general public must be.

I am starting to wonder if Republicans are intentionally spreading disinformation reguarding this recall in the hopes that confused Davis supporters will either vote for the recall so they can vote for a replacement or vote against the recall and not vote for a replace or just give up and not vote.

[proud patriot]

2. Very important

Don't stay at home go out and vote .

[44wax]

3. The brainiac from Mudville saves the day

[Jack Rabbit]

6. LOL

Yes, I was born in Stockton, California. According to local legend, Stockton is the Mudville of Thayer's Casey at the Bat.

[Dagaz]

7. Just Curious

What is it that makes you like Davis? Issa won't win but I'm waiting for someone who can. I don't like Davis but right now don't have anyone to vote for.

[Mz Pip]

10. Kind of my feelings

Who am I supposed to support? Davis is hardly my favorite guy but there is a principle at stake here. Nothing has changed since he was sworn in but the Repugs want another shot without waiting 4 more years. Screw them.

MzPip
:dem:

[MoonGod]

11. Better question: What is it that makes you dislike Davis?

I mean, besides the years of Republican/corporate-sponsored smear campaigns againts him...

He's a bit too conservative for my taste, but all in all he's been a decent governor who was dealt a really shitty hand and had it all exacerbated by Republicans and corporations who have intentionally undermined his ever move.

edit: typo. hands=hand

[Dagaz]

17. Energy Crisis

He totally screwed the pooch on this. He could have locked in rates long before all this Enron/Dynegy hose job but didn't. Then he buys long term contracts at peak prices. Sure there were a bunch of problems and a rape job by Texas but this was all avoidable if Davis was competant.

[Jack Rabbit]

21. I agree that was a dreadful mistake

But was it malfeasance? I think not. Again, thoise points are addressed in the article linked in post number 16.

Show me that Davis negotiated those contracts with an eye to personally profiting from them -- or something like that -- and I'll change my mind and support the recall.

[Jack Rabbit]

16. That's a red herring, but as long as it keeps the thread kicked

I'll answer.

If the truth be told, I'm not enamored with Davis. However, I do not believe he should be recalled. Whatever he has done and whatever mistakes he has made, he is guilty of no malfeasance.

Here is my article from today on DU's home page.

[fob]

25. Avote of NO on the recall question IS a vote for Davis

as for the replacement question, vote for any of the myriad of candidates that will be on the ballot, hell collect 10,000 signatures and you can vote for yourself! Just vote NO on the recall!

As for reasons to vote for Davis, take some time and research legislation he has signed over the last 5 years and see if you don't come up with some of the most progressive stuff in the nation. Add in the fact that with constant media proclaiming him unliked, unpopular, etc, he still smacked down bush*s CHOSEN candidate (riordan), not even allowing him the chance of becoming the nominee. The 2 years from bush*selection2000 to mid term 2002 elections, the prevailing war cry was, "why don't the dems fight back?". However, when Davis fought the repuglies there were many a "I'll guess I'll vote for Davis, but I'm gonna hold my nose" threads here too. I know, because that's where I got the majority of my posts, defending a fighting democrat on DU!

So, come August 9th when those who qualify have to be done with signatures and fees, let's post the contestants, and choose a strategy that will hopefully end up with NO on the recall winning and a 3-6 way winner-tie of the least known "candidates" on the replacement question just in case.


I DO NOT RECALL!

[Cha]

13. Boom! I hope all goes well for my former State of California!

[arcane1]

15. fascinating... I'm really behind in the details of this...

thanks for the info JR! Like you, I'm against the recall and for whomsoever beats "Assa"

:kick:

[mndemocrat_29]

18. Vote Against Recall and for a Democrat

I still think there's a good chance the recall will be rejected on Oct. 7. If this happens, Republicans will become further alienated from the state of California. They can't even beat an incumbent with an approval rating in the 30 percent range. This could greatly hinder a Republican challenger of Sen. Barbara Boxer and would probably deter Republicans from really trying here in 2004. This is probably the reason that Bush has stayed out of the election.

Overall, voting no will help the Democrats because it will further discredit Republicans and will keep a Democrat in office.

However, Democrats need a credible challenger for the second question. Just counting on Davis would be like jumping out of a building, not knowing whether there's a net there to catch you or not. Arianna Huffington, Willie Brown, or Dianne Feinstein would all make terrific candidates, and they all wouldn't suffer politically because they've all said that they are against the recall. For example, if the recall fails 52-48, and Willie Brown wins by 58 points, he can claim a statewide victory and say that what he originally wanted, the recall not to occur, happened. Additionally, if Huffington, Brown, or Feinstein wish to run for governor in 2006, they already have one election behind them, proof that they can win statewide.

[Mz Pip]

19. Michael Savage

Maybe I'll vote for him. If he won, can you just imagine the chaos we would have? Make some of these recall twits regret their decision.

(No I won't vote for Savage, but damn it sure would make interesting politcal theater.)

MzPip
:dem:

[Jack Rabbit]

20. Was the play by Ionesco?

. . . but damn it sure would make interesting politcal theater.

Yep. The theater of the absurd.

[jerryster]

22. recall

Obviously the most important thing is to vote no on the recall and render the other question moot. I understand that reminding people of the cost of this atrocious assault on democracy has been an effective tool. Hope it does the trick.

[Melsky]

23. I'm not fond of Davis either, but the recall sucks

I especially don't like that he accepted a lot of money from prison guards, and then they got more pay, more benefits and better working conditions. I think having prisons as an industry is a very terrible and dangerous thing. I didn't like the way he handled the energy thing either.

But basically issa and pals decided to try for a recall right after the election. That was before any of this stuff went down. It's just a way for them to try to subvert democracy with their money. I hope it backfires on them bigtime!

And isn't it weird that issa is a car thief who made his money selling car alarms?

[MaryBear]

24. Bump

:bounce:

[robbedvoter]

26. VOTE NO ON THE RECALL! Afterwards, do as you please

Do not go picking a slob and forget the main issue - the recall is a GOP dirty trick!
The energy crisis was an Enron/Cheney/bushco production. Cheney went to Cali personally in the spring of 2001 to say: caps on prices? Screw you! W had a speech on that about the same time. Davies was very competent and made Cheney look like the greedy bastard he was. After Jefford's switch, Dems got FERC to expose the bastards. I cannot believe that there are people on DU that blame Davis for the energy crisis! Anyone remember the June 21 voluntary blackout? Leno got with it and davis was on. It was great! Why do I remember that stuff but Californians don't? maybe because I don't listen to their hate radio...If I were living in Cali, I'd vote only on the recall.

[redeye]

27. I know many who are misinformed...

...for example, all the DUers who refuse to vote on the replacement except writing Bustamante in or think that the Democrats mustn't run a replacement canddiate because it means they agree with the recall.

As for myself, I'm voting yes and Camejo in the recall, unless I know that the recall is close whereas te relpacement is safe GOP.

[Democat]

29. You are voting Yes on the recall and then voting on a Green?

Maybe I misunderstand, but it sounds like you are saying you are going to vote yes to recall Davis.

You are promoting voting to recall a Democrat to replace him with a Green?

Why are you promoting this on Democratic Underground?

This is a site where Democrats gather to plan for success, not a place to plan the overthrow of Democrats.

[Terwilliger]

31. ACK!

Cat! Please! Logic!

He can vote NO then do what he wants. But PLEASE remember...if there's no one in a position to represent the left or progressive position, then losing the recall will gain you a puke governor...likely the worst possible outcome.

[Democat]

33. I strongly believe that there must be a Democrat on the ballot

But why would someone on DU be voting Yes to recall a Democrat and then voting on a Green? That's all anti-Democrat.

Maybe I misunderstood the original poster.

My position is that people should vote No on the recall and then vote for a Democrat on the ballot, just in case Davis loses.

Given the choice between the GOP and the Greens, I will pick the Greens every time, but I think that we Democrats should be supporting the Democrats in the California recall, not the Greens.

[Terwilliger]

35. lemme check with ya red...

you're going to vote YES and for Camejo?

Why YES?

[redeye]

37. Because Davis is spineless

I don't directly blame him for the energy crises; I blame him indirectly for not dealing with Enron properly.

And as I said, I'll vote no if it becomes clear that the replacement vote is safe GOP.

On another note, this is a site for small-d democrats, as Skinner has repeated several times.

[Terwilliger]

43. I'm not worried about that

but why vote yes at all if you don't believe in the recall? Just vote no. Whether there's a viable replacement or not, you can still vote NO on the recall.

You can vote how you like, I'm just trying to figure out why you would help the recall go through. I don't like Davis at all...I think he's a twit, but I'm voting NO on the recall because its a stupid Republican trick.

[MaryBear]

28. Here's the deal:

1. First, VOTE NO ON THE RECALL.

2. Then, in case the recall passes, vote for your fav replacement, just in case. Otherwise, if the recall passes despite your nay vote, you have no choice on who goes in.

[Jack Rabbit]

30. Bump

:bounce:

[CountJared]

34. Davis Recall

A shitty Republican Governor winning with 20% of the vote is not the worst that could happen. As I understand it, a recall of a sitting Governor can be initiated if you gather signatures equal to 12% of the voters who voted to fill the office. The bar was low enough with Davis, only like 900,000 or so. (please correct if wrong) Turnout for the last election was bad. This is going to be like a ghost town comparatively. It's going to be a cakewalk recalling a crappy Republican Governor who won with 20% of the vote. Then the recall process gets the drubbing it deserves. People will hate the ones who started the whole sorry mess. People will remember that it was the Republicans who pushed the button and went nuclear with the recall.

I say play for the long haul. If there isn't a viable Democratic candidate on the ballot (and I hope to God there isn't) spread your votes out. Make the guy who wins win so crappy that a follow up recall is assured. Then get a good Democratic candidate in there when it won't hurt us and will hurt them. Its scorched earth policy now.

I'm going to vote no on the recall. And let us remember who really screwed us over. Not just a few faceless energy companies whose names are easily forgotten, the ones who manipulated prices and supply. It was all done under the watchful eye of FERC. The Federal Energy Regulatory Commision. Bush's boys. Remember when Davis was saying we were being screwed? Remember when he requested that FERC look into the allegations? When he asked Bush to intervene? I do. When you go into that voting booth- even before that, when you're talking about this with your friends, remember who sold us down the river. Rememeber who flew around on the Enron jet in 2000. Remember who was Kenny Boy's best friend. It sure as hell wasn't Davis.

Sorry. I'm not really much for posting but I've been thinking about this alot and wanted to get some of my thoughts out there.

(edited for spelling. you always spell crappy when you're ranting)

[Democat]

36. I agree with you that any Republican who steals this will be recalled

The Democrats must respond to any theft of the office by immediatly recalling the Republican who steals it. There should be no question that whoever steals this from Davis will be recalled.

Maybe that's one reason Arnold doesn't want to run.

[MaryBear]

47. Don't keep the bathwater with the baby.

Responsible government in California includes the Recall process as a last resort. Talking about recall as an everyday function delegitimizes our system of government.

[Democat]

53. I totally disagree

The only solution to stopping the GOP is to put them on notice that anyone who steals the office will be recalled. They cannot be allowed to start a corrupt recall without an even stronger response from our side.

To allow someone to steal the office without immediatly recalling them would delegitimizes the government of California.

We must never allow the other side to benefit from using dirty tricks.

[Jack Rabbit]

54. No, a better solution

A better solution is just to beat this one.

I hope we can, but Davis and the party leaders have already shown they have the wrong idea.

Davis can't win a popularity contest. He doesn't have enough time to turn that around. And with so many varied replacement candidates as there will be and as unpopular as Davis is, more voters than not will find a candidate viewed more favorably than Davis. If it's just about voting for the best man, Davis loses.

However, if the Democrats discuss what a recall election should be about -- removing from office an officer for malfeasance -- than Davis might have a chance. Maybe people don't like him and maybe more than not will think somebody can do the job better, but if the question is about Davis being guilty of malfeasance, he can win.

[Jack Rabbit]

39. Bump

The California Recall, Part 2: The Replacement Candidates by Jack Rabbit

[Jack Rabbit]

40. Bump

:bounce:

[Loonman]

42. Recall idiots will have a lot to answer for

If they blow all that money, and Davis is not recalled.


I say we recall a Republican governer.

[Terwilliger]

46. kick

[Aaron]

48. Very good writeup Jack Rabbit (n/t)

[Jack Rabbit]

49. Bump

:kick:

[gulliver]

50. kick

:kick:

[Jack Rabbit]

51. Ally oop

[Jack Rabbit]

52. Boop, boop, boop, boop

[Aaron]

55. Boob Boop Be-Doop (n/t)

[Jack Rabbit]

56. And a cha-cha-cha

!!

[Jack Rabbit]

57. Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work I go

And give this one last bump until this evening.

[realFedUp]

58. No and Angelyne

Someone who has bigger boobs than the rest of the boobs running.

[Aaron]

60. Is that that billboard girls name? I've seen her on TV a few times (n/t)

[fob]

59. Kick to dispel the repuke misinformation

Remember you can vote for a replacement whether you vote Yes for recall, No for recall or don't vote for recall at all!

[Aaron]

61. This thing sinks fast (n/t)

[Jack Rabbit]

62. Sure does

[waggawagga]

63. Hahaha

It is kind of funny that the federal court gave voters a right to abstain on the first question. I mean, seriously, who would abstain?

[Rooktoven]

64. No and Arianna

Chances are if she got in the race, she could attract a large enough segment to keep Davis in-- and she's said if she run's she'll be playing to the nation to make it a Bush referendum.

Imagine 2 solid months of the media covering someone (eloquently) tearing jr. a new one.