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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 02:12 AM
Original message
Prohibition
Why did it take a constitutional amendment to outlaw alcohol? Why couldn't it have been done with a statute? Just ruminating...
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 02:50 AM
Response to Original message
1. Booze Drinkers have more Constitutional rights than Pot Smokers
because the early pot smokers belonged to an unpopular minority.
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DieboldMustDie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Pot was legal during prohibition...
and wasn't outlawed until sometime in the 1930s.   I've also wondered for some time now why a constitutional amendment was required to outlaw alcohol, but other drugs can be banned by statute.   Is there a lawyer out there who can answer this?
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Drugs are illegal because of the FDA....
and the regulatory powers granted to it.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. drugs are illegal because because of racist politics
the FDA does what its told to do
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
3. Under what power?
If they tried to do it under the ICC clause, people'd just brew their own and not sell it. If they tried to tax it out of existence, they'd run afoul of the prohibition on exorbitant tax (you must tax to raise revenue, not to prohibit).
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. marijuana tax act
Actually, its a tax thing. The law was a tax law, not a prohibition per say... this way the federal could do it without state law.

I have read a link about the constitutionality arguments involved, but i can't find it... these are pretty close and explain the tax act and how the actual history of cannabis prohibition was connived.

http://marijuana.drug-culture.com/marijuana_drug_war.asp

http://home.sandiego.edu/~csimonds/marijuana.html

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/MISC/ct/mjtax.html
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Wasn't that law struck down as unconstitutional?
on fifth amendment grounds after somebody went in to buy a tax stamp and was arrested?
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Actually that someone was Timothy Leary and he had been arrested
for pot. He used as his legal defense that it should be unconstitutional to tax an illegal item. He won. The tax law was eliminated but the law against possession was kept intact. They had originally charged him with tax evasion and possession at the same time.
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. history from Shaffer Library...
1960-1970: NEW LEGISLATIVE APPROACH

From the mid-fifties to the mid-sixties, federal activity in marihuana and narcotic law enforcement was relatively stable. The number of offenders apprehended and convicted in both areas remained constant (U.S. Courts, 1956-1964).

However, in the early and mid-sixties a new phenomenon was occurring. Drug abuse began to spread. It no longer confined itself to the ghettos and certain socioeconomic and ethnic groups; the new users were the sons and daughters of the middle class. It began striking home at the average American and became a national, major issue of concern (Rosevear, 1967: 117-131; U.S. Bureau of Narcotics, 1966: 40).

The new middle class use of marihuana induced significant medical inquiry into the nature of the drug and spurred a new legislative approach. One commentator stated:


Nobody cared when it was a ghetto problem. Marihuana-well, it was used by jazz musicians or the lower class, so you didn't care if they got 2 to 20 years. But when a nice, middle-class girl or boy in college gets busted for the same thing, then the whole community sits up and takes notice. And that's the name of the game today. The problem has begun to come home to roost-in all strata of society, in suburbia, in middle-class homes, in the colleges. Suddenly, the punitive, vindictive approach was touching all classes of society. And now the most exciting thing that's really happening is the change in attitude by the people. Now we have a willingness to examine the problem as to whether it's an experimentation, or an illness rather than 'an evil' (New York Times, Feb. 5, 1970: 14).


Congress initially acted by passage of the Drug Abuse Control Amendments of 1965 (Public Law 89-74,1965). This legislation established a Bureau of Drug Abuse Control within the Food and Drug Administration and created criminal, misdemeanor penalties for the illegal manufacture and sale of depressant and stimulant drugs and hallucinogens.

The dramatic increase in the use of marihuana and other drugs during the latter 1960's was a matter of high public visibility. In response, President Johnson offered Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1968 (H. Doe. No. 249,1968). This reorganization was effective on April 8, 1968 and placed the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (of Treasury) and the Bureau of Drug Abuse Control (of FDA) in the Department of Justice and designated it the Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.

What had been obvious with the passage of the 1965 Drug Amendments became glaring with this reorganization, that is, the tremendous disparity in penalties for violations involving dangerous drugs as opposed to narcotics and marihuana. As a result of increased medical and scientific inquiry, LSD and several other drugs 'were acknowledged as being more powerful hallucinogens than marihuana.

To compound the disparity, tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the major active ingredient in marihuana, was placed under controls whereby someone in unauthorized possession of THC was subject to no penalty, but someone in possession of marihuana was subject to a minimum mandatory penalty of two years imprisonment (Federal Register, 1968: 14880). Congress then changed the possession penalty, tinder the Drug Abuse Control Amendments, to a misdemeanor and increased the penalties for sale or manufacture of LSD and the other controlled drugs to up to five years (Public Law 90-639, 1968).

Nevertheless, a great disparity regarding penalties for these substances still existed. The atmosphere for change was ripe. Adding pressure to the situation was the criminalization of increasing numbers of young persons whose sole crime was possession of marihuana for their own use.

In late 1968, the newly formed Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs drafted legislation which would nationalize control of the drugs under the Bureau's jurisdiction. The proposed law vested on the commerce clause rather than on the taxing powers.

The change in authority was prophetic because the Leary decision, which was handed down by the Supreme Court on May 19, 1969, held that the order form procedure necessary to meet the requirements of the Marihuana Tax Laws, forced an individual to incriminate himself in violation of the Fifth Amendment (Leary v. U.S., 1969). Ostensibly, this decision left BNDD with no marihuana possession law and was another factor in evidence of the need for a revision of the law.

This new bill , H.R. 13742, covered the regulation of narcotic drugs, "dangerous drugs" and marihuana. It was transmitted by President Nixon on July 14, 1969.

Emerging from this legislation was an overall balanced scheme of criminal penalties. Minimum mandatory offenses were essentially abolished and the offense of possession of a controlled substance for one's own use was made a misdemeanor. Further, in first-offense, simple possession cases, the court was given the discretion to place a defendant on probation, for up to one year. If, at the end of the probation period, the defendant bad not violated any of the conditions of the probation, his conviction could be expunged.

The same misdemeanor penalty and opportunity for first offender treatment was provided for the distribution of a small amount of marihuana for either: (1) no remuneration; or (2) the cost of the drug.

This provision was included in recognition of the large number of such transactions which take place among youth and in recognition of a phenomenon which surfaced as a substantial challenge to the traditional picture of the national marihuana trade. Legislators had formerly stereotyped the "seller" as the vicious criminal pushing his wares for high profit and felt that extraordinarily harsh penalties were justified for sellers (Narcotics Legislation Hearings, 1969: 4).

But several studies showed that the structure of marihuana traffic bore little or no relation to the traditional stereotype. One survey of 204 users found that 44% had sold to friends at least once. Many casual users sold to leave themselves enough profit to cover the amount of their own use (Goode, 1969: 7). Under the new Act, they would not be punished as distributors.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/LIBRARY/studies/nc/nc2.htm
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 05:08 AM
Response to Original message
5. because alcohol is a basic part of European culture
older than Christianity (in which it's an established part, too, of course). Things like pot come from the 'minority' cultures that formed the USA, and so don't take quite such a sledgehammer to ban.
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Speed8098 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
7. Follow this link
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OneTwentyoNine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
11. And alcohol consumption went up during Prohibition...
Outlaw all you want but people will do what people will do. That fact ought to tell the US volumes about its em...War on drugs.


David
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. a very detailed history of the whole thing
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
14. Great Thread
Thanks for all the great info. I've bookmarked the links here!
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