Green Party Apparently Considered 'Terrorists'

[the_boxer_]

Green Party Apparently
Considered 'Terrorists'
By Frederick Sweet
Intervention Magazine
1-12-4

Writing about his no-fly nightmare in the Fairfield County Weekly, art dealer Doug Stuber, who had run Ralph Nader's Green Party presidential campaign in North Carolina in 2000, was pulled out of a boarding line and grounded. He was about to make an important trip to Prague to gather artists for Henry James Art in Raleigh, N.C., when he was told (with ticket in hand) that he was not allowed to fly out that day.
 
Asking "why not?" he was told at Raleigh-Durham airport that
because of the sniper attacks, no Greens were allowed to fly overseas on that day. The next morning he returned, and instead of paying $670 round trip, was forced into a $2,600 "same day" air fare. But it's what happened to Stuber during the next 24 hours that is even more disturbing.
 
Stuber arrived at the airport at 6 a.m. and his first flight wasn't due out until nearly six hours later. He had plenty of time. At exactly 10:52 in the morning, just before boarding was to begin, he was approached by police officer Stanley (the same policeman who ushered him out of the airport the day before), who said that he "wanted to talk" to him. Stuber went with the police officer, but reminded him that no one had said he couldn't fly, and that his flight was about to leave.
 
Officer Stanley took Stuber into a room and questioned him for an hour. Around noon, Stanley had introduced him to two Secret Service agents. The agents took full eye-open pictures of Stuber with a digital camera. Then they asked him details about his family, where he lived, who he ever knew, what the Greens are up to, and other questions.
 
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[Terwilliger]

1. Democrats are next!

:grr:

[morgan2]

12. democrats are no threat

they don't fight or even question the system. They also provide a viable alternative to keep up the illusion of choice in our democracy.

[aquart]

2. This is not the first time Greens have been targeted.

A woman from New England who is active in the Green Party was also prevented from flying since 9/11.

Can I say I am totally opposed to this system? It isn't to prevent terrorism. It is the first step in setting up our secret police and WE are the targets.

[eablair3]

9. it's really ironic when one actually thinks who the real terrorists are

It is the first step in setting up our secret police and WE are the targets.

There already is a "secret police" set up. It's already here, but people aren't acknowledging it. It was here in the past as well, e.g. COINTELPRO.

But, when the Greens are targeted and under extra suspicion due to the terrorist issue on airplanes, ... it's the secret political police in action.

Because one group (like certain Repugs) is opposed to a political party (the Greens) and their beliefs and ideology, the party in power (Repugs and Bush/Ashcroft) uses that power to harass and demonize the other party (the Greens) and its members. It's no different from a totalitarian regime, is it? Isn't that what totalitarian regimes do?

The party controlling the federal govt is using that power to harass and control other political parties and their members and leaders.

The really ironic thing is that the Greens generally believe in non-violence and are anti-war. They are probably the last political party with members in general that would be opposed to any sort of violence and/or terrorism. The Repugs are probably one of the first groups that will and has resorted to violence and terrorism on a mass scale. I find that to be pretty ironic.

[GreenInNC]

33. Maine activist who tried to fly

Check out www.snopes.com and search for Green.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

3. I am not now nor have I ever been a member of the Green Party

I just want to make sure everyone knows that. :)

[lcordero]

4. hmmmmmmm

that gives me an idea.
I'm in the National Guard. If I deploy, I have to take a commercial airliner. I think that I'll register as a Green so that I'll get put on the "no-fly" list:evilgrin:

[the_boxer_]

5. Everyone say it with me now...

"Police State"


........:eyes:

[aquart]

10. A sensible use of the system.

[truthspeaker]

6. the "logic" goes like this

- the war in Iraq is part of the war on terrorism (why? because we say so, that's why!)

- the Green party platform expresses explicit opposition to the war in Iraq

- therefore, the Green party is opposed to the war against terrorism

- therefore, the Green party supports terrorism

[Lone_Wolf]

7. A power grab

The neoconservatives know that restricting the movement of dissidents helps consolidate the neocons power.

We should be asking questions like "What if there was a anti-war protest and no protesters showed up?" Welcome to Bushivik's Amerika.

[Honesthumanbeing]

8. This story is probably fake

http://www.ericberlin.com/
Gives some arguments as to why, including this comment:

"I'm the chair of the Portland Metro Pacific Green Party. I've been on seven flights in a little over a year, without being hassled a single time. This story about Doug Stuber is well over a year old - I've never been able to confirm it or learn if there was a resolution. And, the story about the other "Green" who was forbidden to fly - that was mainly her fault. She was selected for a random security check, threw a fit over it (thinking she was being targeted because of her politics) and then was escorted out of the airport by security. End of story.


Here's all of the info that I have about Doug Stuber, in reply to an inquiry I sent out on in early January 2003:

>This story has been going around for several months now. We have not been
>able to confirm it. Doug Stuber was formerly a member of the North
>Carolina Green Party but has been suspended and relieved of his duties as
>State Treasurer due to erratic behavior. I cannot go into specifics because
>of confidentiality but Doug admitted the behavior was inappropriate and that
>this was not the first time that this behavior had occured. I only add
>this next part because he posted this on our state listserve so I feel it
>is public record: He admitted to suffering a mental illness, that this
>illness impared his judgement and that he was not taking the medication
>that would help control his illness.
>
>Doug helped start our state party and was a tireless worker. I consider
>him a friend and I hope, at some time in the future, he returns to our
>state party.
>
>Gray Newman
>North Carolina"

Here's the story told in the first person, which could be a probable origin:
http://www.greens.org/s-r/30/30-08.html

[G_j]

13. I know Stuber

and personally asked him to verify this story which he did, and your allegations regarding his mental health are way out of line.

[Honesthumanbeing]

15. They aren't my alegations.

The stuff said about his mental health was from the page I linked.
It's funny that you know him; I think that I've met the guy as well, and maybe you can confirm it. My parents knew a doug stuber a long time ago, and he visited our house once. I remember that he writes poetry and also that he inherented a large sum of money at one point. He was sort of a heavy set, jolly guy.

[G_j]

16. your description

of Doug is accurate, he writes poetry and is a very congenial guy. I've done some activist work/organizing with him and found him a great person to work with.

As for the "allegations" I saw them posted here yesterday also.
Whatever the reasons for his stepping aside in the NC Green party, I don't think it pertains to this story. He has not recanted the story so I see no reason not to believe it. I contacted him to ask about this incident as I was wondering what might happen if I tried to fly (I haven't yet since 9-11) I have an email from him where he verifies the story and talks about the Salon article.

[the_boxer_]

23. It's quite disturbing to not be able to fly...

because of your political affiliations.

It's even moreso that you have to wonder...

:eyes:

[GreenInNC]

32. Doug and the NCGP

Doug did not step aside, he was suspended by the NCGP. Here is an email he sent:

From: Dougstuber
This incident happened October 12/13 2002. It's hard to believe the old article (written by someone who is, as far as I can tell, fictional) is back out there again. Here is a brief explination.

This story was already corrected a year ago, but the truth is I was extremely boisterous while waiting in line for a flight in Ocotber 2002. I understand why I was detained the first day, as I was talking about how "capitalism must die," "George Bush is an idiot who stole the election," etc. I was talking to two guys near the front of the line, from three rows over, so the whole lobby heard the chatter, and folks felt uncomfrtable flying with me on their flight. it was the same week as the sniper attacks in Washington DC.

The NEXT day I went back, cleared security for a flight on a different carrier, and was nabbed HWILE WAITING AT THE GATE, by the same officer Stanhope (not unlike officer Opie in Arlo Guthries Alice's Restaurant).

I was walked to the couter and Delta was printing out a ticket for me, but I said the "Bush is the enemy," to the counter lady, and WHAMMO, I was denied the second day.It was a long ordeal, but I have been able to fly domestically twice since then.

[newyawker99]

18. Hi Honesthumanbeing!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[LeahMira]

11. Time to stick together...

Stuber said he could only conclude that the Greens, whose values include nonviolence, social justice, etc., are now labeled terrorists by the Ashcroft-led Justice Department.

Questions about how one gets on a no-fly list creates questions about how to get off it. This is a classic Catch-22 situation. The Transportation Security Agency says it compiles the list from names provided by other agencies, but it has no procedure for correcting a problem. Aggrieved parties would have to go to the agency that first reported their names. But for security reasons, the TSA won't disclose which agency put someone on the no-fly list.

More than the legalities of this, please consider that Greens are a small part of the population and easily targeted. Because they do seem a little threatening to Democratic aspirations, they also make an easy target. First they came for the communists, but I was not a communist...

DAMN Ashcroft and his "just us" department.

Would it be asking too much to hope that Democrats stand with Greens on this one?

The man was flying Delta? Do we have to fly Delta? Sure, I imagine Delta wasn't behind this, but if they start losing business you bet they'll start complaining.

[the_boxer_]

14. Yes definitely, I think we should band together for one common goal

And that's to get rid of this administration that is slowly taking away our 'freedoms' and our 'rights.' Once they are gone, folks, they are hard to get back.

(Jerry MacGuire)

"Who's coming with me?"

[FredScuttle]

22. "We should band together..."?

Hardee-har-har....if only we could have heard that in Campaign 2000.

[the_boxer_]

24. No time like the present.....

n/t

[LeahMira]

28. Like I said...

Hardee-har-har....if only we could have heard that in Campaign 2000.

It's easy to target the Greens because they are a small number and Democrats, who should be standing up and defending them, will probably keep that chip on their shoulders and be silent. It's not who wins. It's who's right. It's what is right. Sorry you feel the way you do, lib71.

[FredScuttle]

29. Don't worry...I oppose what's happening to the Greens

but I just find it laughable that those from a party (an opposition party, mind you) demand action of us when the action we needed from them to prevent the Armageddon of a Bush presidency in 2000 was summarily dismissed. You may have forgotten, but I won't soon lose that constant refrain of "Both parties are the same" over and over again.

Look, I'll be the good little liberal and fall in line...these episodes are a disgrace and an affront to anyone who values liberty and the Bill of Rights, regardless of political persuasion.

Just please don't lecture me on what's right...I knew what was right in 2000, thank you.

[corporatewhore]

30. you should look at them as AMERICANS not as an opposition party

shame on you!!

[FredScuttle]

31. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my subject line...

I OPPOSE THIS TARGETING OF GREENS IN THE U.S.

BTW, you also could have said that the Greens could have looked at us as AMERICANS in 2000 instead of the "enemy". But that would be whining about the past, now, wouldn't it?

[Moderator]

17. the _boxer_

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.


Thank you


DU Moderator

[the_boxer_]

20. I apologize....

I received this via email and I couldn't find the corresponding information. I did include the link to the source.

[Robb]

19. But has anyone else had a problem?

Other Greens, I mean? Mrs. Robb has been a registered Green for years, and has flown all over the planet since 9/11 hassle-free. :shrug:

And yes, I know her single experience is merely anecdotal, but isn't Stuber's also?

[G_j]

21. I know of one other

story of a Green party official being waylaid at an airport, but I can't remember her name.
..perhaps I can find a link..

[Iverson]

25. post mortem

I started a thread on this topic and with regard to this incident a few days ago.
Thankfully, most of the responses were sympathetic.

The one question I posed that I recall going untouched was whether these antics take the shine off bipartisanship.

[Terwilliger]

26. only for the non-partisans

for the partisans who benefit, why would they care?

[Iverson]

27. a kick for an answer

I used to think that the answer would derive from ethics, but I keep on hearing about "winnability" as if it's divorced from ideas, so ethical explanations are clearly out of fashion.