Who drives SUVs?

[Mairead]

[liberalnurse]

1. I do and I love my 2003 Ford Explore....

4x4 with the works.

[drdigi420]

46. all i ask is that you dont drive in front of me

in the left lane

[OhioStateProgressive]

151. how many MPG do you get?(nt)

[Demonaut]

213. Hey, I have some Galapagos Turtle wax ...nice and shiny......

and how about a baby fur seal shammy?

[GreenPartyVoter]

2. I have a Dodge caravan minivan

Would love to replace it with a toyota electric hybrid minivan, but just do not have the funds. :^(

[shanti]

133. how do you like your caravan?

i'm considering getting a 2003. my tercel just doesn't cut it roomwise anymore, with a 13 yr old basketball player (and assorted tall friends)!

[GreenPartyVoter]

192. Well a) it's ancient so not in great shape

and b) I am not the actual driver, my hubby is. :^)

Still, we had a Subaru before and now that I've had a minivan, I love the space. And it was great being able to climb in to put our kids in their carseats. No more sticking your butt out in the snow and rain. *l* Downside, though, is that it is frontwheel drive, so hubby uses the 4wd Tacoma more often in winter weather.

But, I still feel that if I can manage it $-wise, for my next minivan I want a Toyota Estima electric hybrid. The Toyota trucks we've owned have been more reliable than any of the other car brand we've had.

[SaveElmer]

3. Sort of - Jeep Wrangler

I hear Chrysler is working on a hybrid version of the Wrangler

[piece sine]

5. Love my Land Rover!

Love it, love it, love it, LOVE IT! And I live in Dupont Circle where vehicles can be a hassle but it's such a "babe" magnet for cute guys on 17th Street in DC's "Boystown" that I can't resist being being a sex symbol by driving it.

People always knock SUVs until they drive one. It's a common mistake.

[RememberTheCoup]

11. I don't doubt they're nice to drive...

No one ever said that SUVs were unpleasant to drive. The point is that they are gas guzzlers and in almost all cases unnecessary unless you live way out in the country where there aren't paved roads. Since they consume so much gas they first of all harm the environment much more than regular cars, and second of all increase our dependence on foreign oil, which weakens our country. Get it?

(Also their enormous size creates a danger to other vehicles on the road.)

[NashVegas]

16. *I* Said They Were Unpleasant to Drive

Height is nice, but having more than 8 inches of space between vehicles on highways where there's road construction/lane diversion is nicer.

Height is nice, but not having your left arm feel like its about to fall off from a 10 hour drive is nicer.

Height is nice, but good suspension on said road trip is nicer.

(this, because a car rental agency put me in an SUV because they were out of the Nissan I'd requested)

[drdigi420]

30. you should sue for endangerment

an SUV is not a safe vehicle for the road (with possible exceptions for the non-SUV SUVs from BMW and Lexus, but then, if ya got that money, get a BMW or Lexus CAR and actually get some performance for your money)

[piece sine]

107. so what you're saying

is that you can't afford one. Please -- enjoy your Chevy Corsica (or whatever you drive) and remember that slow, meandering traffic should always stay on the right and not get in the way of people who are really going someplace. We use the LEFT lane.

[Touchdown]

48. Talk to most auto executives...

They knock SUVs all the time. Read "High and Mighty"...plenty of anecdotes from auto execs about what they think about the vehicles themselves. It should be in paperback now.

[Demonaut]

214. My suv is a Porsche

944 Turbo hatchback, with a ski and bike rack from Yakima, top speed 162 mph and me and my dog love it.........its a sport utility vehicle...right?!

[no_arbusto]

219. I have a Wrangler too.

Might as well be an SUV though, considering it gets the same gas mileage as an Explorer or Trailblazer. I regret buying it. My last job required me to climb steep utility access roads in the winter. Now, I sit in traffic on the beltway.

[libview]

4. ford expedition

love it!!

[NewGuy]

6. GMC Envoy n/t

[el_gato]

7. suv lovers don't give a fuck about anything but themselves

[piece sine]

9. you turn to key, the wheels go 'round

it's a vehicle, not a religion!

[el_gato]

13. you don't live in a vacuum

no matter how much you wish it so

[piece sine]

109. true..and I don't drive one either...

although I can understand how other drivers for mistaking that little Japanese teapot they drive for being a vaccum-cleaner.

[Butterflies]

141. that was obnoxious

and unnecessary. :-(

[Touchdown]

53. "It's a vehicle, not a religion!"

Oh' really?

"Love it, love it, love it, LOVE IT! And I live in Dupont Circle where vehicles can be a hassle but it's such a "babe" magnet for cute guys
on 17th Street in DC's "Boystown" that I can't resist being being a sex symbol by driving it. "

Got any more emphatic statements of mere transportation in your bag?;-)

[piece sine]

108. yeah!

that leather back seat can be a home away from home on a kinky parking date near the Tidal Basin. We Washingtonians aren't as square as people here pretend.

[Touchdown]

121. That's funny. Where do you park, so Gary Bauer wouldn't snapshoot you?

Here in Colorado, we just park, and go trail hiking, until we find some rock, tree, or stream to do it in...better when people are watching, especially James Dobson!:D

[piece sine]

125. uh-oh...

the very thought of "performing" in front of the dispicable James Dobson gives me the willies! I'd soon drive an old Toyota Corolla that let Dobson OR pie-faced Gary Bauer within 100 yards of my physical person.

[NoMoreRedInk]

10. don't forget the UAW workers who get paid by the car manufactuers...

that derive most of their profitability from selling SUVs. We care about them too.

[NashVegas]

21. Oh, I'm Not

I remember well the caravan protests to Washington. They were chumps for that.

[efhmc]

17. I am driving a 1995 Crown Vic and am getting ready to get a bigger

vehicle for hauling stuff back and forth to the ranch and to haul my grandsons around. Just what do you suggest this selfish person buy? I'd get a stationwagon if they still made them but for a person who needs room, a SUV is the only answer these days.

[drdigi420]

19. nope

hatchbacks of all sizes exist and are much safer and carry just as much

[efhmc]

25. Please name brands and models. What exactly are hatchbacks and

can you safely carry 4 adults and 2 small children in them and fence posts and screens, etc. (There is one tied down in the truck of my car right now. Didn't feel real safe driving home that way but I got here.) Not at the same time, of course. I really do very different driving than the average person and a lot more of it. Texas roads are full of bad drivers and big trucks. I have to have something that is dependable and can accelerate. I am not anxious to buy a SUV but I am pretty sure that will be what I end of getting.

[drdigi420]

32. dependability and acceleration

are more likely in a car than an SUV

unless you haul stuff every week, you need a passenger vehicle, not a truck

[efhmc]

45. But I do haul stuff every week and I also need to transport my family.

When my children were little, we used our stationwagon to haul things and people. That Olds had a 405 engine and lasted forever. I gave it to charity but I bet it is still running. Sorry, to be so dumb but is a hatchback one of those little bitty foreign things? I drive my cars forever and I love that Crown Vic (the ride and the acceleration are the best)but my grandchildren are moving here and I need something bigger. To haul things from the ranch means I have to go there, get the pickup. come back, etc. and believe me that thing love gas. I just don't see any alternative. I have put this decision off for quite a while because I really don't like anything I've been shown and the prices are so high but the day is coming and I'll have to buy pretty soon.

[drdigi420]

47. little bitty foreign things?

hardly, but then again, i wouldnt own an american made piece of crap

not because i dont believe in american workers, but the management of the US car manfacturers build crap cuz its cheap


but yes, you have other alternatives besides a silly SUV


and yes, we have the right to make fun of you if you choose an SUV

[NoMoreRedInk]

34. Here in Chapel Hill, most people who object to SUVs seem to drive...

Subarus completely riddled with bumper stickers to emote their objections to SUVs.

So, maybe you can try a Subaru. Like the Outback, you know, it's the world's first Sports Utility Wagon!

[drdigi420]

36. suburu wagons are MUCH MUCH safer

than most SUVs

and they dont have to stop to take a right turn, therefore not blocking up traffic

they also don't pollute as much

they also get better gas mileage

[NashVegas]

81. Not For Long

I guess you missed this in today's news:

To Avoid Fuel Limits, Subaru Is Turning a Sedan Into a Truck
By DANNY HAKIM

Published: January 13, 2004

ETROIT, Jan. 12 — The Subaru Outback sedan looks like any other midsize car, with a trunk and comfortable seating for four adults.

But Subaru is tweaking some parts of the Outback sedan and wagon this year to meet the specifications of a light truck, the same regulatory category used by pickups and sport utilities. Why? Largely to avoid tougher fuel economy and air pollution standards for cars.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/13/automobiles/13SUBA.html

[midnight armadillo]

66. How about a minivan?

The Mazda MPV is a smallish minivan that'll carry 7 and has decent cargo space. It's a bit smaller than the other Japanese makes if you're not into the minivan thing so much. City: 18, Highway: 25 with a 200 hp V6. Another option would be a Volvo wagon with the optional 3rd row seat for the little ones.

There is also the Chrysler Pacifica which is a smaller, lower SUV/crossover (aka station wagon).

[blondeatlast]

112. As I say, friend--you are legit.

[shanti]

134. what about a van?

n/t

[burrowowl]

103. May carry about the same size of cargo

as a truck, but not the weight.
A hatchback suspension and motor will some give out hauling bags of concrete, tile, books (very dense a cubic yard of books), cast-iron tubs, cable reels, etc. Then your weakened suspension will become dangerous. The motor too bad you'll have to replace it.
Lighting fixtures, wood trim (need red flag for the 16 footers), bulbs, fluorescent tubes, paint (but not over much), etc. okay for hatchback,
As with any vehicle drive carefully, the heavier the vehicle the longer the braking time. But a bitty Honda rammed into the back of my truck, using it for a brake barrier I suppose, and now the bumper and tow hitch point down. Will have to get it repaired before I can hitch a trailer for hauling, the frame doesn't seem damaged (hopefully not). My chest was sore from the seatbelt restraining me for 2 days.
Any mass, going at a certain speed can be damaging, especially when you are at a standstill at a red light.

[no one in particular]

44. Station wagon, baby!

You can buy em dirt cheap these days. Nice ones, too.

Bought my 83 Olds wagon for $300. Had 38,000 miles and in showroom condition. I bought an old one so I could actually work on the thing myself, if need be. Newer ones can be still be had for far less than their comparable non-station wagon models.

[drdigi420]

49. also, if you prefer a new vehicle

the price of a "nice" SUV is almost as much as a BMW 540i wagon

and the 540i is the safest car on the road because of anti-lock brakes (done correctly, not like ford n chevy n dodge) and an advanced suspension system (most SUVs use leaf spring suspension, (just like what was used on covered wagons in the 1800s)

[blondeatlast]

111. I've no prioblem with people who NEED them buying them.

But :wtf: does an urban Phoenician need with them? We don't get snow, barely get rain, but every second vehicle is a Hummer or an Escalade, fergourd'ssake.

You have a pass, friend. My neighbor with the Hummer has no excuse at all.

[afraid_of_the_dark]

128. I'm right there with you...

If you have a lot of kids or are always hauling stuff, go ahead and get a big vehicle. I just get angry when I see the SUV's that are carrying one person each.

[meow2u3]

205. Yes, there IS a time and a place for an SUV

One of my friends has a Ford Expedition, which seats 8, and is loaded to the gills. She takes care of 5 kids and runs a personal care home where she has to shop for some 30 people at one time. Neither a car nor a minivan could possibly fit all she has to haul, and she also helps transport nurses to the hospital in the event of a snowstorm. Mind you, we live in Philly.

[efhmc]

207. This is why generalizations should not be issued. Of course, she

needs this vehicle. I think making assumptions about others without knowing their circumstances are real repuke things to do.

[Demonaut]

212. dont forget their suv's

how much water does it take to wash one thoroughly?,

[kerry-is-my-prez]

8. Dean drives one....

n/t

[drdigi420]

72. mebbe that sez something about his decision making skills

or lack thereof

i'd still vote for dean over bush tho

[noncon_nalevo]

168. Please consider where he lives.

If you've ever tried driving through Vermont soon after a major snowstorm, you know what I'm talking about. :-)

[NNN0LHI]

94. Yea, a 25 year old Chevy Blazer

If his weather is anything like mine is here in northern Illinois it shows he has great common sense.

Don

[RichardRay]

12. I do, every day

In order to get out of the 6 foot deep snow around my cabin, down the 20% grade and around the two hairpin turns to get out to the county road so I can travel several more miles through snow and ice to the bus stop from which I commute to work. At the end of the day I reverse the process. Without my small SUV (Nissan Pathfinder) I'd walk a couple miles a day up and down the hill; might be more healthy, but no fun at -30F in the dark.

[drdigi420]

18. actually, a front wheel drive that is low to the ground

would be safer and more secure than the SUV with poor braking and a high center of gravity

[RichardRay]

191. Try again....

There's a big plowed parking area at the bottom of the hill. It's full of front wheel and AWD cars and can't make it up the hill.

Try to understand, I'm not talking about an urban or suburban setting. This is rural Wyoming. I have to shoo the moose off the path to get out of my cabin a couple of mornings a week and bears regularly visit.

I certainly agree that big SUV's in suburban environments are pretty silly, but I'd like the bulk of you who have no idea how some us live to admit that there _might_ be situations in which they are appropriate.

[drdigi420]

14. selfish ignorant people

ones that dont care about the extra pollution they cause or the backups in traffic they cause or the fact that they are more likely to be involved in an accident

the tv tells them to get one, so they do

they think they are safe, but they arent

they dont care if they are causing traffic backups or endangering other drivers

they dont care that they have to stop to make a right turn, nothing to do in their sad little lives anyway

some believe that a big ol truck will make up for their small flacid penis

im sure there are exceptions, but this is the general SUV owner

[RUexperienced]

23. I guess some of us are pro-choice and others aren't

Ever try tolerance?

[el_gato]

26. i guess some of us care about reality

like dependence on for oil
wars in the middle east
the coming depletion of oil reserves
you know, things like that

[RUexperienced]

31. Let me paraphrase a prochoice bumper sticker I saw:

"If you don't believe in SUVs, don't drive one."

[drdigi420]

35. and we dont

but we have just as much right to make fun of people that do as the people that do have the right to drive them

its funny how SUV owners get so defensive when their poor judgement is pointed out

suddenly they act as though we are calling for laws banning SUVs

hell, I'm glad some SUVs exist, they are like confederate flags, they help point out which persons should not have important decisions left up to them

[RUexperienced]

39. Your fascism is showing

<<<they help point out which persons should not have important decisions left up to them>>>

[drdigi420]

43. now its FASCISM????

hahahahahahaha

man, you have nothing to argue so you say i'm being fascist for making fun of SUV owners?????

and here i was starting to believe you werent a typical SUV owner

[RUexperienced]

50. You say SUV drivers "should not" be allowed to make "important decisions"

So in your world who is going to make the decision on which car I am "allowed" to drive?

You, or your all powerful government?

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

60. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdigi420]

68. nice,

actually, i just point out how poor of a decision that buying an SUV is, and I make light fun of people that make such poor decisions

i dont resort to calling them 'assholes' tho


i guess anyone that doesnt support what you support is an 'asshole'


are u just feeling guilty about your own SUV?

[piece sine]

110. excuse me, but...

you never driven a Land Rover. It's IMPOSSIBLE to make fun of someone driving a Land Rover becuase our vehicle is sooooooo much nicer than yours, the last laugh is on us. Vehicles are much an extension of one's personality as their home, their clothes, their art, their taste in general. You DO realize, of course, how we snicker when we see you scowling in our rear-view mirrors. Remember when Leftists were staunchly open-minded??

[Spentastic]

118. You're so right!

Land rovers are wankers cars.

In the U.K they are driven by green welly wearing wannabe aristocracy.

I imagine you look perfect in yours.

[redqueen]

142. "Vehicles are much an extension of one's personality"

Oh, the humanity.

If you have to show your 'personality' by poisoning the air others depend on, then IMO you're in need of some serious adjustments in your priorities.

Clean air vs. 'Personality'

Continued oil wars vs. 'Personality'

Safer streets vs. 'Personality'

Hmmmmmmm.....

[OhioStateProgressive]

171. why do you hate the earth?(nt)

[lastliberalintexas]

190. Are you joking?

Do you even realize how insecure your post sounds? Should people really be judged by how "nice" the vehicle they drive is?

God, apparently our society is even more materialistic than I realized.

[Unforgiven]

88. Over the top

Hey maybe we could like set up road blocks, and have you know, everyone who drives an suv or anything that remotely resembles one pulled out and shot, impound the vehicles and that would solve the problem.
Then we wouldn't have those people making "poor" judgment calls and making any decisions at all!

Wadda think,huh?

[Hubert Flottz]

67. Right support Japan instead of your own country!

Anybody ever reacall hearing someone gripe about not having a job anymore, as they drive around looking for work in their Asian auto, wearing their Korean bidness suit? The repubs I know have bought the cars made overseas for years and then they set around and whine because there is no work in America nowdays! Buy Union is more important than buy dinky IMHO!

[Kanary]

91. US cars aren't made here.... sorry to burst your bubble...

Actually, it's all upside down. It's the Japanese cars that are actually made in the US.

Kinda funny, eh?

Kanary

[redqueen]

143. And here I thought this was common knowledge...

*sigh*

[Hubert Flottz]

196. Mine was made in the US!

In 1985!

[OhioStateProgressive]

155. the Earth is FAR more important than jobs

jobs are temporary...our lives are temporary

the earth is supposed to live forever

I'd sacrifice ALOT of jobs to ensure that

[Pithlet]

144. That's why it's a weak argument no matter who uses it

It's weak when pro-choicers (of which I am one) use it as well.

Saying that gives the impression that no one should care about anything that doesn't directly and immediately affect themselves personally.

[drdigi420]

28. i'm pro-choice

i never said you didnt have the right to make stupid decisions like purchasing an SUV

why must you insist that I don't have the right to make fun of you for it?

[RUexperienced]

37. I live in the country on a dirt road that rarely gets snow-plowed,

own three horses, have three children and have found out that a Suburban suits my needs much more than a two-door Subaru. And my Ford pickup is just as convenient.

Let me ask you, when you go to Home Depot and buy twenty 2x4s, how do you fit them into the back of a Volkswagon Jetta?

The only stupid decision I would ever make would be in listening to somebody like you telling me what kind of vehicle I should buy.

[drdigi420]

41. once again, noone is telling you what to buy

we are just making fun of you for your poor choices

and, BTW, Home Depot delivers AND rents trucks, so there goes your 'i occaisionally haul stuff from Home Depot' BS

NEXT!

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdigi420]

61. for the children?

you endanger the lives of your children by transporting them in an unsafe vehicle and then have the audacity to claim that you need it 'for the children'??????


dude, you're too much

[kath]

92. Plus, Home Despot is a BIG Repuke supporter

Better to shop at Lowe's, or a hardware store or lumber yard where you actually get real service from knowledgeable staff.

[burrowowl]

105. Sometimes

HomeDepot doesn't deliver to where you are at or if it does it costs as much or more than what you bought. And sometimes Home Depot doesn't have on hand what you need. So you have to buy it where they don't deliver. Things happen. I just wish I were rich enough to have both the truck and a small car for city use when one doesn't have to haul. When I get some bucks will get a small car that doesn't cost too much in extra insurance.

[el_gato]

54. ever heard of a "work truck" used for the purpose of hauling shit?

the defensivness of the suv owners
betrays the feelings of guilt

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[el_gato]

63. oooh insults now, a little touchy i see

ha ha

think about it the next time you are tooling around in your gas guzzler all by yourself

perhaps you should sign up and go to iraq if you are so invested
in your consumpton patterns

[Mairead]

62. "when you go to Home Depot and buy twenty 2x4s,"

Thirty years ago, when I was de-duplexing the Victorian I then owned, I carried my 2x4s on a luggage rack that was clamped to the top of my little Toyota Corona wagon. No SUV required. The luggage rack worked fine all by itself (plus some rope and bunjee cords). Sheet plywood, 2x4s, 2x12s, gypsum board (only a half-dozen a time, but...) --I could always fetch what I needed. And I could fetch my 3 kids and 3 of their friends to picnics and firework displays, too. 22mpg city, 32highway.

[ellie]

15. Not me

Don't need one. I have driven my 1985 Volkswagen Cabriolet up and down the mountains in Colorado. And I have driven my Toyota Corolla up and down mountains, through the desert, and on dusty dirt roads in the middle of nowhere. When I lived in Colorado, no one had SUVs. People would drive the all-wheel drive Subarus. They were all over.

[Mairead]

65. Yay VW Cabrios! I owned a '62 in Germany

I miss that car.

[RUexperienced]

20. Ted Turner has his own fleet of airplanes

He goes through more fuel and more ozone in one flight from Atlanta to his Montana ranch than I will in my lifetime. And people like him want to take away my Suburban?

Some of the enviros are the biggest hypocrites there are.

[el_gato]

24. weak

try harder

I don't give a rats ass about ted turner

but you should take seriously your consumption habits

[no one in particular]

27. The poster has a point.

Some people, especially the rich-and-famous, like to rail against SUVs while using far more resources themselves.

Since I've hit 30, I couldn't care less about "status symbols" anymore. But to the people who need them, who am I to tell them they can't have them?

[el_gato]

29. you can always find an example of a hypocrite in any issue

that does not negate the fact that suv's are incredibly wasteful and irresponsible

it's not just about status symbols, that is a tertiary issue
when compare to the resource problem

Peak Oil?

[libview]

176. Maybe you would feel differently if you could afford one.

how's the escort working out for you?

[redqueen]

180. I really love these kinds of 'arguments'

Skirting the issue to instead offer a personal denigration in the hopes of derailing the debate is a sure-fire sign that ... well I'm sure everyone can figure that one out. :)

[Pithlet]

181. You know what?

There are people who really are genuinely concerned about things outside of themselves. It's true! There are also people who don't care about things like what kind of a car someone drives. I know, incredible, isn't it?

[info being]

186. but, but, but...

I don't see people like that on TV?

[info being]

185. Notice that this poster is a football fan

All those SUV ads during football getting to you? Couldn't fight off all those messages? Too bad. Think of all the other ways you could have used that money constructively if it weren't for the brainwashing

[libview]

222. Try driving one for a week

it will move right up to the top of your wish list.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

224. I've driven one for a week-doesn't compare with any passenger car

It makes no sense to have one in a city like Boston. The streets are too narrow, the parking spaces are too small, and they don't handle like a German passenger car or any sports car.

Sorry-bad argument...

[auburnblu]

99. Who, Mrs. Kerry perhaps

n/t

[auburnblu]

100. No its not weak

Its a very valid argument. I pay no attention at all to people like Ted Turner or Teresa Kerry when they talk about caring for the environment, why their massive excessive consumption.

Reminds me of Rosie, sure everyone else having a gun is evil, but for her body guard, fine and dandy. The "I'm an elitist, I know better than you" attitude may be great for the privileged few, but yikes, it certainly doesn't encourage anyone else to adopt perhaps more responsible habits.

[drdigi420]

38. SUV owners and their straw-man arguments

Every time we make fun of the poor judgement it takes to purchase an SUV, SUV owners put up the straw man that we are trying to 'ban' SUVs.

TOTAL BULLSHIT!

Not one post in this thread has called for a ban on SUVs.

We are simply making fun of the people that buy them and pointing out the fact that their arguments for buying it are usually not even true.

GEEZ!

[drdigi420]

52. noone is coming for your suburban

man, you completely miss the point

you have the right to drive whatever pile of shit you want

we have the right to make fun of you for it

freedom, deal with it

[no one in particular]

22. Used to drive a Suburban.

Sold my Suburban and bought an old Dodge truck and an Olds station wagon and had money left over.

My truck hauls more than my Suburban did and I can haul plenty of people in my wagon. Okay, an 88 Dodge truck and a 83 Olds wagon aren't quite as "sexy" as an SUV, but much more practical. I have nothing against SUVs, but really, what kind of low self-esteem does one have to have to buy an SUV to use as a status symbol?

[goddess40]

33. Preppie moms

In our town preppie moms haul their two children around in huge SUVs. There are some people who really need them but this is a small minority. Most are like the preppie moms who don't haul things and don't drive off road.

[kath]

93. yep, I see the same thing in our suburb -- one or two kids, level terrain,

no construction projects or anything else that would require any "hauling", yet they drive Suburbans because it's the "cool" thing to do. GAG!

Even worse are the Hummers -- don't even get me started on how much *those* piss me off!

[formernaderite]

177. You are basing your argument on assumptions

Okay...a few years back I drove a Montero, which could seat seven for carpooling six kids about forty minutes to school. We had had a van before that, which got no better mileage than the mid-size suv. The Montero was nice because you saved on mileage by driving in two wheel most of the time. Obviously after I dropped kids off at school, my vehicle would be empty...so your argument is that all SUV drivers only ever drive themselves. I doubt it.

Now I drive a pick-up truck because I'm a contractor, it also has four wheel capacity and a snow plow.
Sure I'd love a hybrid of my truck, but I also have to earn a living and have to be able to afford it. I can only ever buy used.

[blondeatlast]

113. You must live in the Phoenix metro area. I've no problem with

construction workers, etc. driving them, but my neighbor with 2 kids and a Hummer pisses me off.

Poetic justice: she was visibly disturbed when the neighborhood did not show any interest!

[maveric]

40. I have a 1980 Bronco, V8, and offroad ready.

Would that be considered an SUV? I consider it an off-road vehichle myself.

[drdigi420]

42. as long as you dont pretend its necessary

so you can drive 2 kids back and forth to school

its the hypocritical arguments of SUV owners that are most ridiculed

[maveric]

74. I take mine to the desert and the mountains.

where I do drive off-road. Not much but some.

[Red State Rebel]

51. I Drive A Suburban and I Love It

I am the Director of a non profit youth performing arts group. I have my SUV loaded with equipment all the time and kids part of the time. There is no other vehichle that would carry what I have to carry around.

As an American consumer, I am free to drive whatever I like as long as I can pay for the vehicle and the fuel, it is nobody elses business. Flame Away!

[el_gato]

58. paying in blood

500 soldiers in irag
100 in afghanistan

i guess it's worth it to you

[no one in particular]

70. Huh?

You mean if nasty ole Americans would stop driving SUVs, Bush would stop warmongering?

Besides, the poster sounds like the kind of person who needs such a vehicle.

[midnight armadillo]

73. No flames, just the facts...

There is no other vehichle that would carry what I have to carry around.

I disagree. The following is from Edmunds.com
The Suburban: Luggage Capacity: 45.7 cu. ft., Maximum Cargo Capacity: 132 cu. ft. Seats 9. 14 mpg / 18 mpg

The Chrysler Grand Caravan: Luggage Capacity: 17.6 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 168 cu. ft. Seats 7. 18 / 24 mpg.

So, you get more cargo capacity at the expense of 2 seats. You're also not paying the weight penalty of the 4WD system, get better mileage, have a lower rollover rish, and are less likely to massacre the occupants of another vehicle in a collision. Crushing another car and driving over it does not make for a good role model for the kids ;-)

As an American consumer, I am free to drive whatever I like as long as I can pay for the vehicle and the fuel, it is nobody elses business. Flame Away!

There aren't a lot of consumer choices that we make that DON'T have significant effects on the people and environment. The choice of car is a fairly major one, although I'd argue that the home is far and away the one with the most impact on the rest of us, and our food choices would be #2. That said, you drive your beast SUV on public roads that we all pay for, so I think we get an opinion...

[Red State Rebel]

87. Sorry, you are wrong....

When I'm hauling 7 kids plus a 400 lb. gym floor cover, plus 30 6 ft. flag poles and flags, 12 performance sabres, 12 performance rifles, 8-8ft. palm trees (they fold in 1/2) I need every square inch I can get.

What does my driving public highways have to do with anything? I pay taxes for those highways just like everyone else. As far as accidents are concerned, that Suburban saved my and my 3 daughters lives. The year after we got it, we were driving under a highway overpass when a car (Volvo) came off the overpass and landed on us. It did over $10,000 in damage to our car, the guy in the Volvo was hospitalized for over a week, my daughters and I walked away. I have the right to protect my family by buying a sturdy vehicle and I have never been in an accident where anyone was injured by my Suburban.

[Mairead]

162. Maybe not

Do you haul anything resembling that size payload every day or even every other day? No, of course not.

And your anecdote, while interesting -- I'm glad you and your kids survived -- is useless as justification. How many more times do you expect something similar to happen? How many other people have you ever heard of that had something like that happen? What would have happened to you had it been a semi instead, or an armoured car? They, too, can leave the road in that same freakish way. How about having a load of pipes come loose and smash into your windshield, as happened to me. You're hearing about it only because they were pvc pipes, not iron, and they cracked the windshield rather than punching through the glass and my face (I was taken completely by surprise and my reflex was to stamp on the brake rather than try to duck--the right response for most emergencies, but not for that one).

[Red State Rebel]

170. Not so fast...

That equipment, plus I forgot the sound system, is in my vehicle every day. I have to take it to every rehearsal we have (twice a week), plus performances (once a week). I've been doing this for 9 years now.

Sounds like you got lucky with the PVC pipe, I had a friend that wasn't so lucky when a truck in front of him lost it's load of steel onto his car.

[Hammie]

149. You forgot GVWR

If you load up that Caravan with 7 adults and luggage, it will wallow like a pig, sprint down the on ramp like Orson Wells, and when you get off the freeway the brakes will fade halfway down the off ramp.

Don't tell me it won't, I've tried it.

Put all that same stuff in a Suburban, and you will hardly know it is there.

An empty Caravan is a sports car compared with an empty Suburban, but start adding weight (people, cargo) and the Caravan will become a menace long before the Suburban will.

If you carry heavy loads or tow a trailer, the bigger brakes and stronger suspension of a full size SUV adds up to a safer drive.

[kath]

95. "I am free to drive whatever I like as long as I can pay for the vehicle a

but you're contributing lots of extra pollution to the planet, and wasting lots of oil, and that becomes everyone's business.

You can carry a heck of a lot of stuff and kids in a minivan (the Honda Odyssey, with its fold-down rear seat is particularly good) and get significantly better gas mileage. Or someone else in the group could certainly help with carrying some of the stuff around...

[Kathy in Cambridge]

157. Amen, sister

My sister-in-law has 7 kids that fit into a Dodge Caravan.

[spinbaby]

59. Came close to buying one

We live way out in the country on a ridge and a few weeks back when it seemed to never stop snowing in these parts, I actually considered it. Even to the point of test driving one. In the end, I decided it would be easier and cheaper just to call off from work when it snows too much.

[drdigi420]

64. would be safer to be in a low to the ground

front wheel drive vehicle than an SUV in the snow

4 wheel drive helps you GO in the snow, but it doesnt help you STOP

SUVs already have poor braking because of their high center of gravity and sub-standard suspension, add snow to that and its trouble

[Robb]

75. No, that's ignorant.

Downshifting in 4WD slows you better in snow (or ice) than downshifting in rear or (god help you) front wheel drive. Live in country where it snows if you'd like proof.

I spent about half an hour last week helping my neighbor get her front-wheel-drive out of her driveway. And no, I was using my back, not my SUV. :)

[drdigi420]

78. suburu makes lots of 4wds

that dont have the inherent safety problems of SUVs

besides, 4wd does not make up for the added weight, substandard suspension, and poor braking of an SUV

another straw man argument

[Robb]

79. Allow me to highlight your ignorance yet again

...although since you clearly didn't read my other post ("congestion"? there's none here....), I'm not sure why I bother.

Subaru's Outback 4WD weighs only 300 lbs (out of 4000, now...) less than my Explorer. This could be considered no difference, really, since I've usually got more than 300 pounds of dogs, let alone people. So added weight = wrong.

But wait, you say! The Outback stops (in 60-0) in 9 fewer feet (out of 137) than the Explorer! Yes, on dry pavement, something I see none of six months a year. Explorer stops sooner on snow and packed ice, for several reasons. The ABS system is more advanced, controlling each front wheel independently, the rear two in tandem, and with faster dynamic proportioning than Outback. Plus, there's an electronic brake force distribution system to balance front-to-rear ratios (and prevent rear wheel lockup). Subaru doesn't do this, and I live where there is snow. This is to say nothing of the broader contact patch on the ground. So poor braking = wrong.

...And anyone who thinks the Explorer has a "substandard suspension", compared to AWD/4WD Subarus clearly hasn't been in either.

My point is this: my world is not your world. I live four hours from the nearest metro bus, six from the nearest light rail. My porch disappears beneath ice and snow in the winter, as I walk uphill to where the top of the road has become. I believe it's been established that I post from the highest elevation of any DUer. And I'm not the only one who lives in such a place.

So you'll understand if I take your "straw man", and let my huskies make a bed out of it. Your brush is too broad, kiddo.

[drdigi420]

96. wow, such massive ignorance

i'll just let it go tho, you are obviously quite emotional when it comes to your illogical choice of vehicle, despite your rationalizations to make you feel better

[Robb]

116. OK, I'll bite.

What would you suggest for us? :shrug:

[NashVegas]

83. One Question

By any chance, was your neighbor backed-in her driveay with front-end facing the street?

I learned to drive on a front-wheel drive in upstate NY. We always backed in in the winter, and got right out.

[Robb]

84. Nope

...although I know exactly what you're talking about. :)

She has a little pull-off patch of gravel that runs parallel to the street, that's her "driveway". Got 10 inches overnight (on top of whatever else), and she didn't dig enough before she started. Even on the flat, she was stuck-stuck-stuck. Got my good samaritan badge for the week!

[Aunt Eunice]

69. I drive a..

Ford Explorer Sport Trak. SUV in the front, pickup in the back.

I don't feel guilty since I utilize the carrying capacity almost daily.

[Robb]

71. Well, y'all can bite me.

and this started out as such a sensible thread... :eyes:

We have two vehicles. The first is a 2000 explorer, with about 95,000 miles on it. 99% of those miles have been logged at above 6,000 feet, and I'd guess roughly 60% have been logged in 3 or more inches of fresh snow and above 8,000.

Mrs. Robb does a 100-mile commute every day, and on the best days it's clear as a bell, the worst she ambles out to the still-unplowed freeway in low 4WD. The pass is 10K, and she's often going through a foot of fresh at the top.

Now then, the other vehicle, specifically my vehicle.

I drive an E-Bike, zero-emissions and moderate exercise. I work in "town", so it's a piece of cake -- and I walk if it's too ugly, which is most of the winter.

Other than the dogsled (which, apart from one infamous trip to the liquor store in 2001, is purely recreational), that's it. Sure, we've talked about a Subaru, or something that gets better mileage, but out here you really can't get there; and I've driven Subarus around here, they're better than walking, but Ford (IMO) has a better system for snow and packed ice.

Besides, if we buy another car, what about the associated production pollution? We're the only couple we know with only one car.

Now, assault my position if you dare. :D

[drdigi420]

76. it's your choice

if you wish to ignore the more viable alternatives to adding more pollution, more traffic congestion, higher prices for gasoline, and more dangerous highways and instead choose a vehicle that endangers your children and others, thats your right

but, understand, that it is also our choice if we wish to express our opinion on you ignoring the facts we present, especially when 'justified' by anecdotal comments that have already been refuted by scientific fact


in short, you seem to be justifying driving a dangerous vehicle based on its safety

[Riptide]

77. Our accountant tried to talk me into one...

My husband is self-employed, and thanks to Dubya, our business could write off 100% of the SUV if it was over 6,000 pounds (the big ones,like the Suburban). I assured him that my van was just fine, thanks.

A friend of ours who is a car dealer tried to talk me into it, too. He told me it is "What all the Mommies are driving." Not this Mommy. Why do I need a 6,000 pound SUV to drive my kids to basketball practice? I do not haul things (besides kids, and my van seats 7). The weather is not bad here. I certainly understand that for some people an SUV might be necessary. But, around here anyways, it is just a huge status symbol. Few of the Mom's who drive them have big families. They just love the prestige associated with them.

[Fescue4u]

80. IF you write the check.

I'll drive whatever you buy me.

Until then, my car, my decision.

[The River]

82. I Don't Care How Big Your SUV Is

I see you up close and personal
as I pass you on my bicycle.
I never see you smiling.
You look so sad.
so stuck in traffic
so tied to a gas pump
so cut off from the world
so out of shape
and over weight
as you drive through
the the drive-thru
thats become your life.

[Mairead]

167. Right on, River -- and welcome to DU!

[Sterling]

85. People who think peak oil is a myth?

I hope they can afford to fill their tank in the coming years. Oh and thanks for being so selfless SUV owners.

[corporatewhore]

86. well after our car was stolen we were given an 89 beat up suburban

which is about to die.When it does die my mom has agreed to use for charty by charging people to take a whack at it w/sledge hammer and give the proceeds to Earth First! and recyle any thing we can I am sure there would be some people who would like to this in austin!! (i put a bumber sticker that says chaning the climate ask me how on it)

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burrowowl]

102. And how much do you not

pay in taxes. Do you get your gas at Sam's Club?
You should get the Lambourgini 'jeep', fastest in the world can carry 2 people and a 30 mm machine gun, but not much else.

[GCP]

117. Isn't it spelled "Lamborghini"?

http://www.lamborghini.com/

[mdmc]

90. people that want to dominate their surroundings

as opposed to mini van drivers that prefer to handle situations.

[Lost4words]

115. yea right, dont make vast global judgements!

I dont call your minivan a sissy can do I?

[NashVegas]

120. Sissy Minivans

No, you didn't.

But would it surprise you to know, if you don't recall seeing the commercials on TV, that one SUV manufacturer ran a spot in the early 90s - just as the SUV popularity in the cities was picking up - where in a gym full of manly men, a PA announcement asked for the owner of the white minivan to please attend to his vehicle (either the headlights were left on, he was blocking someone, etc). The camera focuses on the vehicle's owner, in the midst of a workout, looking embarrassed. PA comes on again. "Would the owner of the white MINIVAN ..." At this point he's beginning to cringe and it's obvious he'd rather let the situation continue than identify himself as the owner of a minivan in a roomful of SUV studs.

That's the marketing world for you.

[FDRrocks]

97. If you do not need the space...

And need the space to the point a minivan is inadequate. Then I dislike you. A Subaru could do you good in the snow. Yet some people voluntarily choose to hurt our environment.

Like one poster said, you don't live in a vaccum. The soaring amount of children with asthma thank you.

People who pollute, such as anyone who is described above, and more, are the reason the human race will not last.

Thanks.

[ochazuke]

98. The Hummer and HumVee world

Humvees in Iraq = false sense of national security

Hummers in the driveway = false sense of personal security

[burrowowl]

101. Bu$h

he picks up invited guest to his ranch in a dually truck. There are uses for such a truck, but on Bu$hie's so-called ranch?

[Piperay]

104. Range Rover

and it is a real gas pig and also an environmental disaster :-( so I rarely use it. I have a Chevy Corsica that I actually drive. :-)

[sharkbait2]

106. My ditto head cousin drives an SUV

At the time he didn't have any kids. I had visited him in my 96 VW Golf GTI and the first words out of his mouth when I arrived were: "this little car is yours?"... he then proceded to show me how his big pile of junk he recently purchased had "cool" features such as blinkers in the sideview mirrors...etc.

It was very obvious that for him, the SUV was a status symbol to match his home in a gated community. I suspect, that is the case for the majority of SUV buyers.

[Lost4words]

114. totally wrong to say all SUV's are the same! People are not the same

we live on a mountain. when the paved road ends it is a gravel road till that ends then its dirt and rock, sometimes mud and rock. Don't judge me by my auto that our society has not eliminated the need for.

What about all these motor coaches all over the highway getting 6mpg to haul their vacation crap.

please don't knock our Jeep!!!!!!

Do you think these super pick up trucks get good mileage, many will never haul anything larger than a 6 pack.

[efhmc]

122. Good answer,

[redqueen]

153. sharkbait2 said 'the majority'

Your defensiveness is showing.

[Lost4words]

221. good point

I have a friend who every now and then goes on a blame Christians jag. I know who he means but I have to remind him that I was borne into a Christan family. I dont practice or believe but I still feel targeted as part of a group I dont even support.

So yes I get defensive when people are judged.

[YNGW]

119. Too Easy

If you don't like SUV's, don't drive them.

If you feel compelled to go up to someone who owns an SUV and attempt to fill them with your vast knowledge of why they should abandon their own informed decision making procedures and instead see things your way, don't be surprised when they interrupt you in mid-sentence and tell you that they don't care what you think.

[Pithlet]

123. Not that I would do such a thing

but it is already obvious to me that they do not care. Otherwise they wouldn't have bought one.

BTW, that whole "If you don't like _____ than don't buy/do/have one" is a very weak argument.

[YNGW]

127. Reply

It isn't meant to be an argument. It's meant to inform people that they need to let other people live their own lives without feeling the need to comment or critique them. I'm confident that whether you care or not isn't going to cause them to lose any sleep. It wouldn't me.

And you're right, people have said things like "If you are against abortion, then don't get one", which I agree is a very weak argument.

[Pithlet]

130. I don't doubt

that people who have little regard for the impact their choices have on others care. You're absolutely right.

I actually don't think that criticizing them does a bit of good. In fact, if anything, I think it hurts the cause because they immediately get defensive with the "I don't care what you think" attitude.

There will always be plenty of self-absorbed people who will gladly consume such vehicles that they don't need, and there's no stopping them. The only thing that I think will really work is cracking down on the automakers and insisting that the vehicles they make are more fuel efficient so we can lessen our dependency on oil, and insist that they are safe not only for the drivers themselves, but for others who have to share the road with them.

[YNGW]

135. I'll let the market decide.

If people don't want them, Detroit will get the message.

Say Hi to Elvis for me!!

[Pithlet]

138. Is this the same Detroit?

that had to be bailed out by the federal government because the Japanese killed it? :evilgrin: But, that's beside the point. There are people who will buy these things regardless of their effects on other people. Leaving a matter of social policy to the market will not work if there are enough people who don't care about the consequences of their decisions on other people. I don't think that manufacturers should be able to sell harmful products just because there is a market for them.

[YNGW]

146. Reply

>There are people who will buy these things regardless of their effects on other people. Leaving a matter of social policy to the market will not work if there are enough people who don't care about the consequences of their decisions on other people. I don't think that manufacturers should be able to sell harmful products just because there is a market for them.

That insinuates that I or anyone else believes they know what is best for everyone or how peoples individual decisions effect other people, and I'm not willing to do that nor allow others to do so.

[Pithlet]

166. No, it doesn't.

The effects that most SUVs have on safety and the environment can be easily measured. There's no reason they can't be made safer and better for the environment. And, people would probably still buy them. If the car makers can't do this, then they shouldn't be allowed to sell them.

The fact is, the decisions people make in their lives DO affect others. Rules are made every day that restrict corporations, and even individuals, from doing things that harm others. If that didn't happen, then society would fall apart. Corporations DO have to be held accountable for the products they sell and the effects they have.

[YNGW]

184. No

You took what I said too far. No one is questioning reasonable restrictions.

But, I'm not into micro-managing everyone else's personal decisions. And the studies are questionable at best.

Good Day.

[Pithlet]

187. No, I didn't

I was responding directly to what you said, which is the market should decide what the makers sell. When I responded that it shouldn't be able to, you said you weren't into making decisions for other people. That is what you said, no?

Good day to you as well.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

199. You Must Have Heard a Different Study than the rest of us

like the ones they quote on Rush and Hannity that were paid for by the auto makers that say global warming and damage from fossil fuels is pseudo-science?

Ah, so transparent....

[Pithlet]

200. Yeah. I think it's pretty much accepted

that the lower the MPG, the more gas consumption. The more people drive these, the more dependent this country becomes on oil. I don't know how you argue that.

And, the whole higher center of gravity thing. They really are more apt to tip over. Not to mention the front end being set much higher and bulkier, making them much deadlier when in a collision with a car.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

148. Your Luxury is more important that the air of your children?

unless you live in a rural or high-altitude, there is no rational explanation as to *why* you would need an SUV. My sister-in-law has 7 kids and she has a mini-van. My husband came from 10 kids and they had a station wagon growing up.

All that SUVs represent is how much of a slave someone is to popular culture and how easily swayed they are by advertising.

[YNGW]

154. Reply

If that's how you feel, then fine, I'm sure you're doing what is best for you. In this case, what's "rational" or "unrational" is up to the individual. Adults make their own decisions based upon their own needs and wants. I'm not going to tell someone what they can or can't drive based upon where they live.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

159. No, I'm asking YOU if your luxury is more important that the air

of your children?

Unfortunately, you're contributing lots of extra pollution to the planet, wasting lots of oil, and using roads that my tax dollars pay for so therefore that becomes EVERYONE'S business.

"Adults make their own decisions based upon their own needs and wants"

Well, if those needs and wants are in conflict with the best interests or the health of the community and the world, then it's not an individual choice anymore.

[YNGW]

183. Reply

I pay my taxes, too.

And, I'll continue to do what I damn well please. Good-bye.

[Forkboy]

195. We'll take that as a yes

:eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

198. I would take that as 'Yes' or Inability to Defend an Indefensible Argument

Nothing like getting on your high horse when you can't defend your selfishness. I'll take that as a yes, your luxury IS more important that your child's air. What the hell? You'll be dead in a few decades anyway-maybe sooner as I don't know how old you are.

Who CARES if your selfishness contributes to global warming and dependence on fossil fuels. The comfort of your tush and what your neighbors think is FAR more important that such silly environmental matters.

It's all about "ME"-the Republican mantra! Happy voting!

[Hep]

124. If I may inject a little fairness!

Some SUV's get better mileage than some sedans. It's not really about what you drive, it's about how you live.

[Pithlet]

126. I agree

Merely having an SUV doesn't automatically make someone selfish or careless. Some people do genuinely have a need for them. It's the people who own one just because it's the cool thing to have now that grate. My own sister bought one because she thought having a mini-van was too un-cool. Never mind that mini-vans drive better and get better gas mileage, and she and her baby would be safer. To me, that attitude is stupid and selfish.

edited for clarity.

[Hep]

129. Yep, vehicles are for UTILITY not STATUS.

n/t

[PVnRT]

132. That's the intelligent answer

If only certain people on this thread could display that as well...

[Scottie72]

139. Thank you for your reply!

I went around and checked into some of the mini SUV's and noticed that they get just as good gas millage as mid-sized Sedans.

[noncon_nalevo]

169. Amen ...

Although I'd amend that to "how you live and why." :-)

[Superfly]

131. 2004 F-150...I know, it's not an SUV...

But I love my new truck.

[Superfly]

164. Here's a very close picture of it...

mine's blue, though.

[formernaderite]

178. Nice

Nice...I'll have to wait a few years till I can afford a used one.

[Desertrose]

136. 95 Toyota 4runner

but the gas mileage sucks...I thought cause it was a Toyota.........???DUH!

But I was wrong...if I had the $$ I would get a little hybrid.....

But I do live in roughroad & off road country so I can't go too low.

I miss my '91 caravan but it died about a year ago....


:shrug:

Peace DR

[dawn]

137. As the driver of a small car...I don't hate SUVs, but...

I drive a 2001 Beetle, and I can't count the number of times I've seen SUVs parked in spaces that are clearly marked for "compact" vehicles. Yes, it's their right to have an SUV, but it's not their right to park on those spaces.

I especially hate it when I've parked and done my errands, only to come back and see a huge SUV parked in the compact spot next to me. It is so difficult to get into my car.

And on a purely asthetic level, I don't like the look of SUVs, especially Hummers. But that's just my opinion. I'm sure tons of people hate the new Beetles.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

161. Call a tow truck

This happens all the time in my gym parking lot. Maybe you should print out some flyers with a definition of 'compact' and 'compact car' and leave them a reminder on their wipers?

[corporatewhore]

197. you would of loved the yelloworange h2 with a

scaled down model of itself as the hood ornament i saw

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

145. Read about SUVS here

RICH people write them off as tax deductions under the new Bush tax plan.

[Hep]

147. That only applies to a few models

that exceed a certain weight. And it's a loophole in farm tax relief. It was supposed to apply to people buying farm equipment, but there is nothing that prevents owners of Hummers from taking advantage of it as well.

[SahaleArm]

150. Try driving crap USFS roads for 10-miles in a compact car...

As someone who does a lot of hiking in the summer and skiing in the winter - I like having a vehicle I can beat the sh*t out of, has 4-wheel-drive, and lots of clearance.

[Hep]

152. I love my outback

Good clearance, all wheel drive, and good gas mileage.

[SahaleArm]

156. On road - what's your highway mileage?

I've got a 4-Runner which I bought used (Same price as a new Outback). Off-road mileage is awful in any vehicle.

[Hep]

158. between 25-30

Although it's been awhile since I've actually calculated it. A hell of a lot better than my rock van:

[SahaleArm]

160. That's one sweet van...

With tinted rear windows and blinders no less :evilgrin:

[Hep]

174. 10 MPG!!!

That thing and I have been in almost every state.

[redqueen]

163. People that don't care about other people.

Here in Dallas every other vehicle is one of those idiot boxes.

Those of you out in the sticks or on a mountaintop need not get your undies in a twist. I'm not willing to do the research to prove you wrong, so I'll take your word for it that it's the only vehicle on the market that would possibly serve for your needs. :shrug:

My beef is with these urban morons. If they can afford an H2 or Navigator or whatever, could CERTAINLY have afforded a more environmentally responsible (and driver/passenger-friendly) vehicle, AND something for off-road on the weekends or whatever activity it is that justifies the use of such mind-bogglingly ugly, overpriced, arrogantly unsafe vehicles.


However, if you are still under the delusion that driving an SUV makes you safer, please do yourself (and your family, and other drivers and their families) a favor, and read this article in the New Yorker:

"Big and Bad: How the SUV Ran Over Automotive Safety" by Malcom Gladwell.

[Bridget Burke]

165. Two kinds of people drive SUV's

1) Those who need them. Extreme weather conditions, very hilly terrain, many passengers or lots of cargo are the most common reasons. Some people in this thread mentioned that alternate vehicles can meet some of these needs, but I haven't done the research. Apparently those who feel SUV's are "safer" might be wrong--but that's natural selection in action.

2) Idiots who care more about status than utility. There are lots of them in Houston, where we have monotonously flat terrain & snow once a decade (maybe). SUV's give false security when the city floods; I've seen buses, semis & fire engines inundated. The biggest, shiniest ones seem the least likely to haul a bag of manure or a soccer team--and why is the driver always on a cell phone?

[Monument]

175. Buying an SUV is becoming a victim of marketing BS

To buy an SUV is to fall prey to the wishes of Madison Avenue.

These vehicles boast the following functionality:

* Slow
* Poor handling
* Fuel Inefficient
* Much higher profit margins (means you pay way more for less)

Of course, many people need SUVs for day to day transportation. But for these people, owning an SUV should be a sacrifice. I look at people driving SUVs and I say to myself "thank god those idiots are paying $10k profit margins to Ford, which keep my faster, more fuel efficient, more comfortable, more luxurious, and better handling sedan REASONABLY PRICED".

Of course, I fully support the CHOICE of SUV owners and wish them no ill. I just happen to think that buying an SUV is not a wise choice.

[SahaleArm]

179. Buy used - after 3 years a vehicle will lose 50% of it's value n/t

[MacCovern]

172. No SUV for me thank you.....I have a better solution

No way, I don't need one.

Instead I drive a Lincoln Town Car, and my Town Car can outhandle
any SUV ever built (thanks to a thing called lower center of gravity),
and my Town Car gets around 25 MPG on the highway.

By comparison, a Ford Explorer weighs about the same as my Town Car but you'll never get anything above 20 MPG in that thing. The Isuzu Rodeo weighs 500 LESS than my Town Car, but also will not get over 21 MPG.

Did I mention my Town Car is one of the safest cars on the road.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

173. My Dad Had One For Years-Great Car

It had a great ride and felt very safe.

I have a '98 Camry. It's great in snow. It starts even in EXTREME cold (and we have broken records here in Boston lately). it rides nicely. And I've been hit in it twice.

[EV1Ltimm]

182. jeep grand cherokee here...

i bought it because i'm a pretentious, impotent, victim of tv ads with a small penis. and it's black too (the jeep, that is), so i'd imagine i'm a member of a colombian death squad.

</sarcasm>

...but it's one of the 15% of suv's that have actually seen regular off-road use. and i carpool. and haul things. big heavy things.

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

189. I am guilty

We have a Tahoe and a Volvo. The Tahoe because there are four people in our household and we take trips together. I also tow our boat.

[tritsofme]

193. I drive a Yukon,

so shoot me.

[DebJ]

194. did I drive by any of you turned over on I-270 last year between

Frederick and Chevy Chase? One morning alone, I counted 3.

[arewethereyet]

201. I use to but couldn't justify needing 4wd twice a year

for an hour or two.

expensive tires and the mini van holds as much or more with a better ride.

[maxanne]

202. I live in the mountains

plenty of ice and snow in the winter. I drive a Toyota Corolla. I put good nubbly snow tires on it, and drive all over the state. Driving is a big part of my job as a community organizer - and mileage and affordability are a concern.

Last spring I hit a moose, and totalled my car - could have totalled me, too. I was given a Jeep Liberty as my first rental, because the rental place was out of small cars. I was a nervous driver for a couple of weeks. The Jeep felt so BIG and SAFE. I thought about buying an SUV. I tried on a Honda CRV - but Hondas don't have enough leg room. I tried the RAV 4 - and nearly succumbed. I was telling myself that I could justify it, based on where I live, the critters, etc.

Fortunately, I remembered who I am. Someone who is concerned about the planet, mileage, costs, etc. Someone who in no way needs a big honkin truck.

The Corolla I had before stood up pretty well to the moose. I bought a brand new one, and have not regretted my (40 mpg highway) decision.

[Zynx]

203. I drive a 2000 Ford Explorer and am proud of it.

I'm not much of an environmentalist anyway.

[maxanne]

204. now there's something

to trumpet out with pride. :eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

206. That's GREAT!

Why not announce shameless selfishness to the world?

:eyes:

[YNGW]

209. Why not...

...let people decide for themselves? Oh that's right, we have people in our party who believe they're so much damn smarter and know better than the rest of us, and so they'll try to "shame" us into agreeing with them. Goddamn, we better agree with these "I'm the conscience of the party" types or they'll all condemn those who dare disagree with them to political purgatory. What a great political party we've become when we have people who want to be the conscience for all of us. Boy, who wouldn't want to be a part of that? Yippee!! Where can we all sign up?

And then we wonder why we're getting our ass handed to us in elections.

[maxanne]

211. so defensive, YNGW

Sooner or later, either we will make the decision to conserve, and really try to do something to save the planet - or the decision will be made for us.

Fiddling while Rome burns and blustering away in an attempt to justify your lack of concern for the environment, and your "right" to have what ever you want, at the expense of others is feeble. No wonder you sound so trucculent.

Oh - and nice avatar.

[YNGW]

215. Nothing doing

There are many who disagree with your conclusions that the planet is dying. Why is it you can't accept the fact that others actually have done their own independent reseach and have reached a different conclusion? Is it beyond the ability of some to comprehend that two people can read the same documentation and reach two entirely different conclusions?

You see, the attitude of "I'm right and you just don't see that I'm right" doesn't fly with me.

Twelve jurors hear a case, six come back "guilty", six come back "not guilty". Why? They all heard the same facts?

I have nothing I need to justify, nor do I apologize for what I believe. Your labels mean nothing to me.

So, we may never agree. If you believe it, I certainly am not going to stand in your way and keep you from doing what you personally see as best for you. Have the same courtesy for others.

Nice avatar to you, too.

[maxanne]

217. yes there are many

who disagree. A number of them work for the Bush administration.

I'm guessing that you think that global warming is junk science, and polluters should police themselves. We'll always have plenty of clean water, and strip mining isn't such a bad thing. The polar ice caps aren't really melting, and so on.

Of course my labels don't matter to you. Your concern is very typical of a certain mentality - "I got mine."

No, we'll never agree, on anything, I suspect. I'm a dyed in the wool liberal. And you aren't.

[YNGW]

218. Reply

>A number of them work for the Bush administration.

That's nice. I bet some worked for Clinton, too. What of it?

>Your concern is very typical of a certain mentality - "I got mine."

Your concern is very typical of a certain mentality - "I know better than you."

So, what did that little exchange accomplish?

>I'm a dyed in the wool liberal. And you aren't.

I'm so glad you can tell so much from someone who disagrees with you on one subject and that you know exactly what I think about water and strip mining and polar caps. That's amazing! Can you tell me which horse is going to Place in the fifth at Del Mar? At least maybe I can make some money off this talent you have.

Honestly, those who come off like they know so much more than the rest of us are a real turn-off to the party as a whole. No one wants to associate with know-it-alls who believe that if we "would just see things my way" that the whole world would be a better place. For some reason, we have people in our party who want to tell everyone else what the "correct" political position should be on every subject. I say "for some reason", but I know why, they think they're so much damn smarter than everyone else. Phooey!!

Thanks, but no thanks.

[maxanne]

220. actually

you've been pretty obvious.

Go ahead - tell me you're a liberal. ROFLMAO

[MediumBrownDog]

216. 1999 Explorer Sport here

and I love it. I'm sure it's the ultimate sin on this board, because by definition it is not a work truck -- it has only two doors and is shorter than the 4 door Explorer. I do use it for purposes that a car would not suit, but I'm not going to go into that because I don't feel that I have to defend my choice. I'd still have the truck even if I just went to the grocery store and back because I just like it.

[Corgigal]

208. Buick Rendezous.. a newer cross over

She is my girl, and gets a few, very few less miles then our ole minivan. She saved my behind today in fact. I will put her safety record against most vehicles on the road any day. Buick describes it this way:

Some vehicles simply defy conventional categories. Offering styling and capabilities of an SUV, the ride of a luxury sedan and the seating capacity of a minivan, Rendezvous can go beyond convention to become that place where the best of all automobiles meet.

A picture of her:
http://www.buick.com/rendezvous/

[BrendaM]

210. They will be banned when we regain control

In fact we should go a step more. Unless land is being used for farming and other social uses the people living there should be moved into the cities and let the open countryside be used for production and tourism. Provide clean public transportation to visit the countryside and ban private vehicles completly. We don't need them.

Once we all live in the cities we can schedule clean visits to the heartland and eliminate all private polluting vehicles. Bicycles would of cours be allowed by those with time and energy to trek out to our beautiful open spaces.

There is no real need for private polluting vehicles.

[PVnRT]

223. Ridiculous

"Unless land is being used for farming and other social uses the people living there should be moved into the cities and let the open countryside be used for production and tourism."

Complete bullshit. And, frankly, pure fascism. What else would you tell people they have to do? How much more private property would you ban?