How I am sure O'Neil's revelations won't make a ripple.

[Timefortruth]

First, there is nothing new in the allegations. Is there even one person here who didn't know what O'Neil is saying a year ago? There is no interest on the part of the "press" in reporting the lies of the administration.

Second, the Sunday morning talk shows were all about Democratic infighting in Iowa and elsewhere. O'Neil's claims were an aside, dismissed because he is a disgruntled former employee, if they were covered at all.

Please help to give me reason to hope that I'm wrong, I want to think this time will be different.

[barbaraann]

1. You're wrong.

Check the amazon bestseller list. O'Neil has TWO spots in the Top 100, for the book and the CD.

[Timefortruth]

8. There are quite a few books that tell the truth that have become

best sellers, and it hasn't changed public perception a bit.

[barbaraann]

23. Check out the Yahoo message boards.

The anti-Bush tsunami is coming. Unfortunately, I think a lot of anti-Bush Republicans are going to become even more rabidly libertarian because they see Bush as a traditional liberal big spender. :-(

[priller]

34. I don't know if that's true

It hasn't affected the non-stop whoring of "journalists" on cable news, but I think some people will have their eyes opened by this.

[KissMyAsscroft]

2. I dont know what everyone here is expecting..

As far as I see it, the media is not interested in covering the truth about Bush because it is in their financial interests not to do so.

Does everyone think that they are going to pile on and it will blow up into this huge scandal leading to impeachment? It's not gonna happen..

It is a good thing, it adds to what we've been saying but it's up to the Dems to take this and run with it.

Whomever is the Dem nominee will have to do an end around the media. They are the enemy and will do everything they can to protect Bush.

[Timefortruth]

7. Impeachment can't happen with Congress the way it is today.

I no longer think that it is in the long term interest for the media to support Chimp, which makes the blind support all the more baffling.

When the stock market crashes again, as it certainly will, not all ships will stay afloat.

Maybe the media still lends blind support of this administration simply out of habit?

[Maddy McCall]

9. The media IS interested...even mainstreamers like CNN

are using this as the LEAD-OFF story in broadcasts today. That is huge. It isn't a footnote--it's the big story of the day.

Since 60 Minutes is covering it tonight, all of the mainstreamers will be aggressively jockeying to cover the developments in this story. It all starts with one news service having the guts to break it, then the rest will follow suit.

And remember, this isn't an adversarial Democrat, this is a rich, connected, corporatist who was formerly an insider in the Bush admin. This story definitely has feet and WILL travel.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

19. 60 minutes is one of the top ranked shows

n/t

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

26. 100% Dead-On Accurate

The Democratic candidate will not be able to crucify Bush with any "evidence." If Bush does not end up with "four more years," the worst that will happen is that he will walk away from all of this without a scratch. The Dems need to pick an agenda that's not directly tied to "Bush Is Evil," drive it home, and get voters off their backsides. Anything else will be an exercise in futility. It's not about "lowering" expectations, it's about developing realistic ones. Bush will either be re-elected or will step into a fat, comfy retirement. A strong, focused Democratic agenda is the best means of assisting him with the second option.

[Timefortruth]

29. Now I disagree with you. Democrats need to promote new policy

while at the same time discrediting the Chimp. They can't focus on the totality of the lies of the administration simply because it would overwhelm the voters, it is too gross to be believed. But if the Democrats focus on one or two of the simple but huge lies there might be some conversion.

on edit:
Remember that the Republicans made great headway by going totally negative on all things Clinton. To the point that even the Democrats were afraid to claim the Clinton successes. Democrats would do well to take a page from the Republican playbook, or hell take the whole playbook and lie like theives the way they do.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

38. Okay, I hear you, so let's say this instead...

...Instead of my original comment "not directly tied to "Bush Is Evil," let's revise that to "not totally dependent upon." The challenge will be to, as you say, discredit him...but without alienating voters who choose beyond reason to cling to the beloved image of the man in the flight suit with the plastic turkey who kept us safe from terra. Democrats are going to have to use documented dirt and numbers. Otherwise it's going to be a back-and-forth "I know you are, but what am I" elementary school playground fight, which is where Karl Rove shines. "Look at how they are behaving...this person is not fit to run out country," etc. etc. etc.

Bring the briefcase full of documents to the debate and carefully ration the emotion. Let the voters be the ones who become outraged.

[Sophree]

3. He is stating the obvious

But what does that one DUer's sig say? We live in a time where the duty of an intelligent person is to state the obvious. Or something like that.

He's the first insider we've heard actually utter the words, however. I think the whores will try to ignore until it becomes impossible to do so, just like the Ambassador Wilson thing.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Reality check

Most Americans do not have time to read the PNAC document

Hell they don't know what the PNAC document is

In fact, for most Americans this is breaking news...

This is Ellsberg\ Dean rolled into one... it will make more than just a tricke

[Timefortruth]

11. Most Americans won't read O'Neil's book either.

The media could have kept the public informed about PNAC and chose not to, the media controls the release of this news also.

Maybe this time it will be different.

[kayell]

25. Most people didn't read the Pentagon Papers either

but enough did to make it a best seller. I am very encouraged by the level of Amazon sales.

[davekriss]

36. Further reality check

About 6 months ago I gave a "moderate Republican" friend, a highly uninformed but good-ol-boy executive, a copy of "Rebuilding America's Defenses". He read it. When he was done, he remarked, "What's the problem? Sounds like good ideas!"

[Selwynn]

5. You're right, and the delusional state of people here is scary...

*shivers*

[Maddy McCall]

6. This will be huge in the media because he was a Bush insider...

and it isn't adversarial democrats making the charges now. This is a rich, connected insider in the Bush administration (well, former insider) making these charges.

People will trust him. He has memos to support his charges. This won't--CAN'T--be dismissed.

Not to mention that at six tonight it will be on Sixty Minutes, a show with great credibility in the eyes of JQ Public. It is going to sink Bush for a second term. And rightly so. Should lead to impeachment, but that is a pipe dream.

[SpiralHawk]

13. it's part of the NFL playoffs, too -- so lots of folks aware

CBS has been teasing the 60 Minutes segment in the NFL playoffs. I saw two teasers last night in the Patriots-Titans game.

Millions of NFL fans tune into these -- and got exposed to the snippet of the interview.

Beer haze or not, you can bet a lot of people noticed.

[rumguy]

32. Yes, it is being TEASED in the NFL playoffs - that is awesome!

[Timefortruth]

14. Then why isn't there saturation coverage of the allegations?

I want it as badly as you....

[Maddy McCall]

15. Wait until after 60 Minutes tonight to ask that question...

Look for saturation coverage after tonight. Other outlets WILL HAVE TO COVER this story. I don't think polite requests from Bush's PR team can staunch the flow of negative coverage that we will see in the upcoming weeks.

People will have to start asking questions that only we "extremist lefties" have been asking all along. When a news show as innoculous as Sixty Minutes covers something this controversally grand, others will be forced left on their news coverage of this.

Let's give it a week and revisit the topic. I am more optimistic that Bush is about to be exposed for what he really is than I have been thus far.

Let's not watch the pot...I believe it will be boiling when we check it in several days. :-)

[supercrash]

17. Now that makes 2 insiders

Perle is shining a light on the Saudi connections to terror...that Bush doesn't want to be seen

The forces that be may have some serious leaks lined up to take Bush down right before elections...could get crazy

[Maddy McCall]

20. I think it will blow his reelection chances...the Dem nominee will be able

to rip him apart in debates on this. It will ruin him politically.

How can he blunt any attack that stems from info from his own Sec. of Treasury? He can't. All he can do is deny debate requests, which will also ruin his relection bid. HE is now a sunk ship IF the democratic nominee has the balls to use this against him--that is, if he doesn't sink prior to reelection. These well-documented accusations are HUGE.

[Beaker]

10. the sunday morning shows-

they had all their people and interviews set-up already to cover the Iowa caucusses, and the O'neill stuff didn't hit til about close-of business friday...the 60Minutes piece doesn't even air until tonite- give it a chance to grow some legs.

[Maddy McCall]

16. Yes...exactly my point...

Let's see where we are in a week. I think our expectations will be met by then.

Optimistically,

jchild :-)

[HereSince1628]

12. The talk shows aren't all live are they?

I think some of them get taped on Friday. So they would have "missed" the show. True enough, if they saw it as a "blockbuster" they would have retaped some of the shows...

As I remember Watergate it was also a story that came drip by drip until the dam let loose.

[KharmaTrain]

18. Bravo, Truth

The Rove spin machine already has O'Neill labeled as a disgrunteled employee out to hussle a book from the "libbies"...thus debunking the NYT list.

Remember, O'Neill is the only top cabinet-level official to be blown out during the lifespan of this regime, and they'll call that out, too. O'Neill was never an insider...he was a CEO with lots of friends on "The Street"...he was supposed to be the go-between. He didn't play ball and a lot of the crap this regime was doing was being dumped on him...most notably the collapse of the market and the CEO scandals. I'm surprised I haven't seen the pics with Bono on Faux Noise yet (maybe it's happened already), drawing the right wing buzzwords between O'Neill -> Bono -> Commie.

If anyone will trumpet O'Neill's cause or give him a fair hearing it will be Lou Dobbs...and I hope he'll be a guest early this week. Also, that through the documents O'Neill has brought forward, that some enterprising journalist will start finding holes and connecting dots...start asking the little questions that can turn into big headaches for this regime.

This is "red meat" for those of us...many with over-optimstic/pestimistic mood swings, that are fun to read on DU but have zero impact elsewhere. There has to be an undeniable message that * has constantly lied to you (American people), taken advantage of you and wants to do even more if re-elected. These are the messages that have to be clarified and hammered home if there's even a light chance of positive results next November.

[Maddy McCall]

22. Yeah but those previous lies didn't show that he intended upon election

to force this war, resulting in 500 bodybags this far.

This story connects the LIHOP/MIHOP theories (of which I have never been a huge supporter) to the charges by survivors of 9-11 (ordinary, everyday Democrat and Republican people who are asking very substantive questions) in such a way that the general electorate/public will not be cognitively able to dismiss. This is the missing piece of the puzzle that we have been looking for, and Rove won't be able to turn people's distrust in Bush after this. Let this develop fully before we start the naysaying.

[readmylips]

21. It's up to us to keep it in booshe's face and...

write thousands of letters to the media. Together we can make a difference. O'Neil gave us the opening, now we need to step in quickly. Write letters to all democrat senators, government officials, and DNC leaders. Where are the DNC leaders? They should be on TV 24/7, tonight and all next week. But please, don't put that lady Brazil on. I can't stand her.

[lovedems]

24. He has the CBS story tonight, he will be on the TODAY show tomorrow

so that means GMA will have to have him, which means other news agencies will have to have him, etc. etc. etc. It will be in the news for awhile I suspect. I almost wish he would've waited until April or so, closer to the election. We americans have such a problem with long term memory.

Edited: unless he can use this issue now to get the ball rolling for investigations to shadow the idiot for the rest of the year. That would be good.

[Maddy McCall]

27. I don't think this will die an unnoticed, forgettable death...

This is huge. Expect families of deceased servicemen and women to chime in on this on big network shows. It will have a web effect and many people will be pulled subsequently into it. Can't see it dying an easy death. Not at all.

[Timefortruth]

28. A good chunk of the 9/11 victims want a fair investigation.

Look at the coverage they get. And those people were from the monied class, not like the soldiers who shed their blood for the country.

[Maddy McCall]

30. Not all 9-11 victims' families who complain are from "the monied class"

I think the combustibility will result from the combination of people now involved--a cocktail which now includes a corporatist-former-Bush-cabinet-member.

Nothing like this has happened in the past three years. Nothing.

[Timefortruth]

35. Right, but since there are some that look like *&Co. and the

elite in the media you'd think they would get some attention. If they won't even pay attention to their own kind what hope does the middle class have?

[Maddy McCall]

37. Huh?

I don't understand what you are saying.

[kentuck]

31. I think you may be wrong about this one...

This has legs! have you read this transcript? http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/printable592330.shtml

It's a damning article and there are memos and documents, 19,000 of them, to back it up. They will do their best to kill this story. But I'm thinking it is not going away. However, it is possible that the Wall St Journal writer, Suskind, may decide to postpone making some of the info public. All of it is probably not in the book.

[retread]

33. They will make a ripple. But just a ripple in a giant cesspool.

*