When Bush "gets" a second term in '04, what then? Seriously.

[Dhalgren]

I am going to affiliate myself with a much more progressive, left-leaning political party (if they are allowed), and try like crazy to leave this country. I am not sure that my wife and I will be able to leave, financially, but we are going to try.

I do not think that this cabal of criminals is going to turn over power to anyone else, I just cannot see it happening. I would like to think that when this takes place, the people would rise up in arms, but I don't think they will. I think that the majority of American people will just roll over and turn up the tee vee. Of course there is always the possiblity that Bush might actually win the election on the "up and up" (so to speak), in which case we all have to figure out what we will do.

[RandomKoolzip]

1. Maybe I'm naive, but that should be "IF Bush gets a second term...."

Okay, yes, I'm naive.

And if he does, then we're moving to France, my wife and I.

[Cannikin]

And I'll be packing up and heading to Canada...if they'll let me in.

[Cannikin]

2. posted twice....sorry.

[Dhalgren]

4. France would be my first choice, too.

But we can't figure out how to afford it. And as far as the election goes, this year is going to be historical on a grand scale -one way or the other.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

36. My girl and I

have been researching Toronto. Seems like a nice place. The healchcare thing has its pluses too!

[RandomKoolzip]

43. I can't sell Marie on Quebec.

After Chicago and the 2004 election, it's either France, or Canada, if I can sway her.

[Screaming Lord Byron]

51. Come to Alberta. If you get homesick, I promise you

we have enough crazed neo-con rednecks to make you feel at home.

[RandomKoolzip]

52. Ooooh, sounds enticing...neo con rednecks..just like Nashville!

I've always wanted to live in Edmonton, just so that I could be very very far away from hot weather and insane American fundies, but I realize there's insane fundies everywhere you go....

I'd LOVE to live in Canada. Always have, ever since I was a kid and saw some nature shows on the arctic circle.....

[DK666]

3. Im gonna sell my house and Move to New Zeland.

Seriously.

[CityZen-X]

18. I Will Be Your Neighbor!

You have my plan in mind! I am serious also, but still having a hard time convincing my wife. But I hope she will see the light if the Bu$h*t hits the fan in 2004! If the Lord of the Lies takes a second term, see you in Auckland. With or without me wife, mate.

[DK666]

42. Well

I sent away for the govermnent competency test for NZ to get a work visa and I have a company that wants to hire me. But Im not ready to give up here yet but with BBV and BFEE it doesent look too good.

[LuminousX]

5. No one is taking my country away from me

IF Bush wins, it means I didn't work hard enough.

[Kolesar]

12. Yeah, all this doomsaying is a waste of time

DU hosts too many threads like this.

[Dhalgren]

16. What if its another "stolen" election?

.

[Hoosier Democrat]

6. Spoke to a friend in the military...

This friend of mine is a career military officer who handles training. He's pretty "inside" when it comes to policy and he told me that if His Fraudulency gets a second term, the draft will be reinstated. Seems nobody wants to serve anymore and the military is having to use every means at their disposal to stop the hemorrhaging of folks wanting to leave the service.

I thought he was just pulling my leg, but he's serious. If Dumb-ya gets back in, here comes the Draft.

[BeHereNow]

9. Terre Haute...

My home town.
Your friend is positively spot-on.
Welcome to DU.
BHN

[PVnRT]

29. Hey, another one from Terre Haute

Amazing

[BeHereNow]

10. Terre Haute...

My home town.
Your friend is positively spot-on.
Welcome to DU.
BHN

[Cleita]

7. We could form a new government.

If more than 51% of the population agrees, then boot the Amerikan Reich out. I leave the details to those who can pull it off.

[info being]

45. Definately doable. It could be organized online...a virtual country

[maxsolomon]

8. you do what you did under nixon, reagan, bush 1.

put up with it. leaving the country is an option for very very few of us. i mean, who wants americans? they only speak one language, and that one poorly.

if doo-dah fearmongers himself into a second term (and i think he will), by the time he finishes up, i think amurkins will be pretty fed up with his dumb ass and his endless war.

i should say i HOPE, not think. right now i'm leaning 51% to thinking that amurkins ARE dumb enough to "elect" jeb in 2008.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

11. That's the cowards way out.

I can't believe so many people are planning to just run like that. You do that and the Nazis win. That's what they want us to do. This is my country and I'm not gonna give it up so easily...

[thebigidea]

13. well, it'll give you that much more of a spotlight to be a big hero

you should go find some WWII survivors and call 'em cowards for fleeing Europe for a few years. Or those that fled communist regimes... I'm sure my parents would appreciate your lecture on why they should have fought the Nazis in Poland a bit more, perhaps by joining the Cavalry.

[Wapsie B]

15. You got it!

They'll have my freedoms when they pry them from my cold dead hands.

Welcome to DU!

[Lars39]

17. It is a personal decision, and one not taken lightly either.

Nor should the persons making this possibly life/death decision be labelled cowards.

[RUSTY SHACKLEFORD]

25. You're all free to do what you want.

That's the nature of the beast. But I'm free to call a spade a spade if that's how I see it. America is MY home. I've got native American roots in my family and the white man already took my land away from me once. I'm not goin' anywhere this time. Let 'em come try and kick me out of my home. I've got a nice little surprise waiting for 'em.

I always wanted to use some of this stuff anyway...

[tom_paine]

31. Thank you Rusty. Nice first post. Welcome to DU!

:toast: :toast:

The thing here is, just how far will the Busheviks go and just how bad it will get?

Even in the best case scenario, things are goign to be pretty ugly by 2010 once Boomer Retirement hits full swing.

I 98% agree with you Rusty, but if it truly does begin to approach Nazi/Soviet levels, there may come a point where cutting and running becomes the prudent thing to do, like Jews fleeing Germany in 1938. Stay behind at your own peril.

Now is not the time and neither is 2004, IMHO, even if the Emperor Bunnypants retains the throne.

The bone of contention here is how bad will it get after that. The Draft, certainly. Recession? Probably. Depression? Maybe. Gulags? My guess is not until the later reign of Emperor Jeb or perhaps Emperor Arnold. Neighbors spying on neighbors? Already started, albeit at non-Soviet levels.

Hindsight may be prescient, if by 2007 Stryker Teams are in the streets and Red Alert is called and roundups are beginning and liberal interent websites endure "Kristallnacht".

Then, the people who fled in 2005 and before will look like prophets and the rest of us...well...God knows what will become of us.

Having said that I still agree with you, Rusty. The time to cut and run is still far n the future, if ever. If I'm wrong, I probably won't live long enough to regret my choice to stay very much.

[supercrash]

14. Then we leave

And watch the stupid Americans reap what they sow

I find great pleasure in watching these idiots reap what they sow, they are making very dangerous decisions that are putting me in danger, and they deserve what is coming

Fuck the stupid Americans is what I say, If they elect Bush again then they deserve what they get...fuck em

[BeHereNow]

20. Hate to admit it...

But on a very dark level, I couldn't agree more.

[info being]

46. It isn't that dark. Ultimately we own our own life...we owe nothing

to a country. We are governed by the law of nature, not by billionaires and elites. We need to start looking at government power like we look at the ridiculous nature of a monarchy.

[BeHereNow]

21. Hate to admit it...

But on a very dark level, I couldn't agree more.

[BeHereNow]

22. Hate to admit it...

But on a very dark level, I couldn't agree more.

[Zan_of_Texas]

30. what if we/they didn't elect him

After a year of research on black box voting, I am convinced that numerous elections weren't really elections, but fixed.

If Bush is declared to have gotten more votes in November, knowing what we know about this administration's inability to do ANYTHING right except psychological operations terrorizing their own people and world class looting, then I for one will not be convinced that the American people chose him.

So, it's less a matter of "deserve" than a matter of what the heck can we do about it?

The American media has put us in this cocoon of misinformation -- most Americans, when given accurate information, draw conclusions similar to those we have here. So, how do we drag people away from their 24/7 infotainment televisions and tell them the truth?

[tom_paine]

32. Canadian?

"Blame Canada! Blame Canada!"
--South Park, the Movie

If so, don't think you can sit up in your home and not expect to be affected by Imperial Amerika, particularly as it sinks deeper into tyranny and it's eye turns towards it's Free Neighbor to the North.

Tyrannies seldom tolerate the existance of Free Nations next door to them. Makes the Imperial Subjects restless and yearning as they watch what they no longer have.

Two examples:

German-Austrian Amschluss of 1938.

Polsih dismmemberment by Germany, Austrian Empire, and Russian Empire in the 1790s because they dared to draft an "American-style Constitution" right next door to the most vile and tyrannical monarchies of their time.

If you are Canadian or Mexican, you have more of a stake in restoring the Old American Republic than you know. Hell, with Imperial Tyranny stretching it's shadowy hand across the world, there may be no place you can remain untouched by the Empire if it stays and grows stronger.

[BeHereNow]

35. What most don't know is this:

The BFEE has DEEP ties to the powers that be in Canada-
Harriman (Bankers and Railroad Moguls), Newmont Mining
which just partnered with the Canadian Oil Sands Trust and is
headed by an former Exxon, think East Timor/ Indonesia debaucle.
Canada is not immune, and will soon suffer along with the rest of
us. It is currently a silent base of hegemonic operations, but not
for long.
BHN

[BeHereNow]

37. What most don't know is this:

The BFEE has DEEP ties to the powers that be in Canada-
Harriman (Bankers and Railroad Moguls), Newmont Mining
which just partnered with the Canadian Oil Sands Trust and is
headed by a former Exxon exec, think East Timor/ Indonesia debaucle.
Canada is not immune, and will soon suffer along with the rest of
us. It is currently a silent base of hegemonic operations, but not
for long.
BHN

[Mairead]

19. The way to stop it happening is to offer a real alternative and then

spend every evening and weekend knocking doors as religiously as the JWs to explain to people why they need to vote for that real alternative.

We are not going to get anywhere by offering Bush Lite. I'd like to think that's obvious but, regretably, what's obvious is that it's not obvious! You can't get peace by killing, virginity by f*cking, or real change from the status quo.

[brainshrub]

23. I was going to leave the country.

But then I realized that if I did, I wouldn't be a true American. A real patriot stay and fights for freedom even if her own goverment attmpts to silence her.

I will not leave the leave this country to the dogs. I will stay and fight.

[BeHereNow]

24. This may help you-

http://www.escapeartist.com
We also have a thread going on this that I started
in the Economic forum that you may want to read.
No need to hurry there, there are only about ten of
us there at any given time, so the threads last for several days...
BHN

[BeHereNow]

27. Link to my related discussion

in the Economic issues forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=4487
BHN

[BeHereNow]

28. Link to my related discussion

in the Economic issues forum.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=114&topic_id=4487
BHN

[info being]

48. That's a cool site. I've been there several times in the past.

[PVnRT]

26. Giving up so soon?

I love this defeatist attitude around here. Just what we need for the upcoming campaign!

[BeHereNow]

33. In case you haven't noticed...

the voting system is rigged, so the farce of elections
is really just another ploy to keep us squabbling among ourselves
while they move on to the next topic on their agenda.
It is the failure of Americans to comprehend this mode of
operations that has allowed them to succeed thus far, which by
the way is MUCH further than most realize.
I noticed your Terre Haute repsonse- are you from there?
If so, what part?
I grew up on North Eight street, north of Collett Park.
Graduated in '78 from the State High.
Junior high - Chauncey Rose.
My dad taught at the university and my mom in West TH-
any connections so far?
BHN

[supercrash]

38. Hey beherenow...

You finally managed to hit the 'post message' button only once

*Stands up and claps*

[BeHereNow]

39. Disgraceful, I know...

Feeling like quite the exhibitionist this morning...
Not sure what is going on- it just keeps duping!
BHN

[PVnRT]

47. I also ran around Collett Park

On 11th street, actually, so I also went to Chauncey Rose. Class of '96, North High School.

As for the elections, you are right, as far as pushing the electronic voting crap is concerned. Fortunately, people have been screaming about it long enough that it's starting to just leak out to the mainstream press. What we need to do is start getting Democrats involved in the precincts, sitting on the voting boards, and making sure that all goes off nice and fairly, or making a stink if it doesn't. I just refuse to just give up and let them win here.

[carolinayellowdog]

34. Keep fighting and winning the culture war

Hey,

No matter what happens politically, the great majority of creative and intelligent Americans will oppose Bush and his agenda. Writers, musicians, actors, directors, etc. etc. Just because a single profession, so-called journalists, have sold out to the BFEE, does not mean that our entire culture is doomed.

There is much worth saving in America and I'm glad our ancestors did not cut and run in similar (or worse) circumstances.

CYD

[MISSDem]

40. Stay here and

be part of the resistance, ie, the Democratic Underground just like the French Underground during THE war.

[Iverson]

41. uhhhhh, scream at Nader some more?

I predict that there will be no principled opposition, or that any technical and nuanced differences will be peddled to us as principled opposition.
I predict that elctoral fraud will only gain traction as an issue with the left, which will then be the occasion for the corporatists to pay no attention to it, treating a second administration as legitimate.
Finally, I predict that the DLC (with the DNC following) will explain that the Democratic Party lost because it's too far left, necessitating a continued shift to the right.

I hope that I'm wrong.

[Dhalgren]

53. I agree with you.

The election will be stolen (or so corrupted that no one will ever know for sure) and the media will present it as 'face value'. Anyone who protests the findings or talks about fraud will be dismissed as "tin-foil hatters". Can you even come up with a workable scenario whereby the Dems regain control of anything? House, Senate, Courts, Presidency, State houses - anything? I am serious, here, this scares the shit out of me.

[info being]

44. I echo your sentiments word for word

[kayell]

49. Seriously, I'm outa here if that happens

And when a dem wins in November I'm not going to be sure of my plans until I see them safely installed in January 2005. Even if I lose most everything (and probably will - my house won't sell for much), I really do think we're on our way to a fascist theocracy if the BFEE isn't well and thoroughly ousted. I don't think I have the stomach or the acting ability to pretend to be a good little church going, subserviant female heterosexual for however long it would take. I have to consider the jews who waited too long to leave nazi germany. One of my main nightmares is that I won't be able to convince the rest of my family to do the same.

[Nadienne]

50. North Dakota

If my boyfriend and I can't make it to Canada. Tactical "retreat".