Bushler's Mexican "Guest Workers" will have to register for the DRAFT!!

[ElementaryPenguin]

This was pointed out by an astute DUer yesterday. What a foul, wicked, and brilliant plan by the BFEE/PNAC Mob! An entire slave labor class and a bountiful supply of cannon fodder, er, troops ready for drafting the moment Bushler reinstates the Draft - (a minute or so after his successful rigged election victory) - both delivered in one fell swoop!! (A Bushler Corporate Cronies true wet dream!)

So despite the utter decimation of our voluntary military, the Fuhror brings back the dreaded draft - without much, well, furor - for the rich white kids can easily be exempted now that there will be bodies aplenty to choose from - thereby allowing the PNAC Empire to continue it's ruthless expansion, and the Roman, er, the American military government to continue its policy of endless war!

POSITIVELY BRILLIANT! Economic and military security! Who'd a thought doing WalMart's dirty business would provide such immensely beneficial fringe benefits to the fatherland, er, homeland?!

Don't believe Bushler's "guest workers" would have to register? Check out this government website!

Excuse me. :puke:

http://www.sss.gov/FSwho.htm

[fertilizeonarbusto]

1. aha!

Helping the Walton family and the PNAC in one fell swoop!

[ElementaryPenguin]

15. You just knew there was a catch with these

RUTHLESS, SHAMELESS, SICK MOTHERFUCKERS!!

:mad:

[cthrumatrix]

86. never happen -- this bill is not voted on until 2005 and the repugs don't

support it.

[Fenris]

2. HOLY SHIT! It makes perfect sense now!

We need the brown people to fight the other brown people, so the white folks back home don't think their boys are dyin'. Bring on the Latino cannon fodder.

Goddamn these people are fucking AWFUL!

[ElementaryPenguin]

4. Precisely!! These bastards don't miss an evil trick!

:mad:

[judge_smales]

3. Oh

I'm.

So.

Surprized.


:rolleyes:

[ElementaryPenguin]

9. So out of character for the BFEE , isn't it?

These sick fuckers evidently never stop scheming of ways to murder and exploit people!!

:mad:

[seemslikeadream]

5. They have plans

don't they? :evilfrown:

[ElementaryPenguin]

6. Yes, and so must we! We should point this issue out to the Dem candidates

And right away! They really should be pouncing on BushCo for this ridiculous (in every way) proposal!

[seemslikeadream]

10. They have been targeting the Mexican community

for quite awhile. The ratio is way off.

[leetrisck]

7. They are already being given citizenship

after 1 year if they will serve in the military. Haven't you noticed how many have already died in Iraq and how many wounded being sworn in as citizens after they come back to the states. Not quite the same as the draft - but -

[ElementaryPenguin]

11. I have noticed.

Their presence is already one of the reasons that we don't get a big reaction from the American public - most of them don't know anyone having to fight over there!

[truthseeker1]

8. Will likely include women as well

The current draft policy (as stated on the website you posted) could be amended by the new bill currently in Congress which allows for women to be included in the draft as well.

H.R.163
Title: To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Rangel, Charles B. (introduced 1/7/2003)

SUMMARY AS OF:
1/7/2003--Introduced.
Universal National Service Act of 2003 - Declares that it is the obligation of every U.S. citizen, and every other person residing in the United States, between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a two-year period of national service, unless exempted, either as a member of an active or reserve component of the armed forces or in a civilian capacity that promotes national defense. Requires induction into national service by the President. Sets forth provisions governing: (1) induction deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including exemption of a conscientious objector from military service that includes combatant training; and (2) discharge following national service.

Amends the Military Selective Service Act to authorize the military registration of females.

http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d108:HR00163:@@@L&summ2=m&

On edit: Sorry, my post is off topic....but I just noticed on the link you posted that it states all MEN and I thought it should be pointed out that Congress is working on changing it to include women.

[ElementaryPenguin]

13. The menial jobs they'll come here for...they'll be doing in Iraq!

Bushler and his evil cronies are so fucking sick!

:mad:

[GRClarkesq]

36. This is Rangel's plan, not Bush's immigration proposal

eom

[truthseeker1]

55. Yes, I know

I was just pointing out that women will be included as well as men if the bill passes.

[lovedems]

12. As the mother of 4 boys, this is sickening

I know they have a rule about not letting all of my boys go, but I WOULDN'T LET ONE GO, NOT ONE! I am of the mind set that if anyone I know votes for * and the draft is re-instated, those people will no longer be a part of my life. That goes for family members as well. There use to be a day when the differences between republicans and democrats were basic ideological differences. Now the differences are changing my entire way of life.

[ElementaryPenguin]

14. I no longer tolerate Bushler support in my family either, lovedems!!

I'm fucking banning/excommunicating anyone in my family - extended or otherwise who still supports these fucking monsters - just like I would treat Nazi party supporters! You want to call being intolerant on my part - you go right ahead - I don't give a fuck!!!

:mad:

[lovedems]

16. Nope, I don't give

a fuck either. If they want to threaten my very way of life and possibly put my boys in harms way, they can get the hell out of my house and stay the hell out. Screw them all. Oh, that felt good! :)

[ElementaryPenguin]

18. Well said, LD!

:toast:

[slackmaster]

17. People, undocumented immigrants are already required to register

Just like citizens and legal resident aliens.

http://www.sss.gov/qa.htm

http://www.foreignborn.com/visas_imm/immigrant_visas/7must_i_register.htm

[ElementaryPenguin]

19. I understand that.

The point is - so will these.

[slackmaster]

20. Are you suggesting they should be exempt?

If so, why?

:shrug:

[el_gato]

22. your missing the point

which is to open the gates in order to add to the viable draft pool, i.e. non-rich non-white fighting age individuals

[slackmaster]

24. So many possible contrary positions one could argue

Like the fact that millions of draft-age men are already in this country illegally and shirking their legal obligation to register for the draft.

[truthseeker1]

57. Do they have the right to vote?

"legal obligations" should come with rights - like the right to vote

[slackmaster]

67. No, but they have the right to leave and go back to their own country

Where they have full rights of citizenship. Most US citizens have no place to run to and hide indefinitely should they wish to evade the draft. (Actually I'm not sure about that, does Canada still accept US draft dodgers on an indefinite basis?)

[Kinkistyle]

78. U.S. expats fight for their resident countries too?

I live in Japan at the moment, and there are a lot of Americans in China either studying or working there. Some Americans seek permanent residency or work-visas in those countries either for their career or because of marriages/family. Should they also be drafted and fight for China's People's Army, maybe against the U.S. over Taiwan, or some such crap?

Anyway, you pretty much just explained why its stupid anyway. If it were me and I was in danger of being shipped off to a war to die, I'd just go back to my motherland.

[slackmaster]

81. It depends on the laws of the country of residence, I believe

Should they also be drafted and fight for China's People's Army, maybe against the U.S. over Taiwan, or some such crap?

I believe the People's Republic of China would have a right to require the same military commitment from foreign visitors as it does its own citizens. But a non-citizen has the right to leave in lieu of conscription. I'm not a lawyer or expert on international law.

If it were me and I was in danger of being shipped off to a war to die, I'd just go back to my motherland.

:toast:

Japan is a great country. I hope you are enjoying your stay.

[ElementaryPenguin]

27. Bingo, eg!

:mad:

[havocmom]

83. and granting amnesty to rich employers who rely on the cheap labor

Laws they don't like and have been breaking, they just change. Poof, suddenly, they are law abiding employers.

[ElementaryPenguin]

25. I'm suggesting the whole "guest worker" concept is fucking outrageous

and part of the motivation in ChimpCo's devising this scheme is to provide a new and plentiful source of draft elligible soldiers - at a time when they desperately need them!

[slackmaster]

28. My perspective as a member of a military family

With rights and privileges of US residence come responsibilities. Anyone who resides in this country, no matter what their status, who is required to register for Selective Service but has not should shit or get off the pot. If you don't like it try Canada.

[ElementaryPenguin]

30. Cut me some slack, slack - or YOU try Canada!

You don't have a problem with sending off people such as these Bushler named "slave, er, guest workers" to fight and die in war - when they cannot even vote in an election!! This country was founded (as you may recall) over the injustice of "taxation without representation" - and it seems to me that being forced to fight as a soldier - to be asked to kill or be killed - in the name of a country in which you are not represented is an even far greater injustice!!!

P.S. My father was a career military man as well!

:mad:

[slackmaster]

34. My brother is over in Iraq right now, EP

I've fulfilled my obligations as a citizen and so has everyone in my family.

Have you?

BTW - I'm not disputing that the possibility of getting more cheap cannon fodder has not escaped the Bush regime's attention, but taking a semi-devil's advocate position there is no excuse for anyone dodging draft registration and remaining in this country.

[ElementaryPenguin]

42. I'll pray for your brother, slack.

And because your brother is there, you - as much as anyone - should understand that "THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR ANYONE" LYING ABOUT AND FAKING A THREAT AGAINST THIS COUNTRY IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY STARTING AN ILLEGAL WAR "AND REMAINING IN THIS COUNTRY!"

And yes, I have "fulfilled my oblitions as a citizen!"

[Efilroft Sul]

45. All this talk of "fulfilling obligations as a citizen"...

...sounds a little too much like "Starship Troopers" to me. You can't be a "citizen" and vote if you're not a military veteran, says Heinlein's book.

No offense to those currently or previously in the armed services, but people would better fulfill their obligations as citizens if they took personal responsibility to inform themselves of issues and vote instead of solely going the "Starship Troopers" route.

[ElementaryPenguin]

50. I quite agree, ES!

eom

[U4ikLefty]

77. Well stated ES...I like the Starship Troopers analogy

I was a citizen from the moment I came out of my momma, and I don't need anyone telling me what I'm "obligated" to do to be a citizen of this (still) great country.

[uncle ray]

44. yes there is.

what do you call the current war?

my father and grandfather both served in the military, probably plenty before them too. hell, my dad signed up towards the end of vietnam. fortunately they are still around.

but i WILL NOT under ANY circumstances serve in a military that i do not feel is doing their job for the right reasons. i have no problem defending my country, but defending my country has NOTHING to do with invading iraq.

they can shoot me before i will serve for the wrong reason.

besides, i am incapable of serving the military, i'm liable to think for myself.

[are_we_united_yet]

82. Get off the soap box already... Geez n/t

[lovedems]

52. Well, I am being denied rights and priveledges AS A US CITIZEN

I am being denied healthcare, the right to a decent job, and I could go on. Don't expect any sympathy here, because this administration is shirking it's responsibilites to the US citizens in favor of making corporations more profitable. Believe me, Canada looks good compared to the future of this country right now.

[ElementaryPenguin]

53. right on, lovedems!

eom

[are_we_united_yet]

84. I appreciate your families committment to the armed services

as I do my own. By your paragraph you seem to insinuate that military service completes or makes up the largest component of your obligations and responsibilities as a citizen. Your marginalization of people through this one issue is not only overly simplistic, its stupid. There are other, many other "responsibilities" of a citizen. Examples are trying not declare bankruptcy, not driving drunk, participating in community service, paying your taxes, bills, taking care of your kids, not comitting murder etc. etc. One need only look to Timothy McVeigh as a stark counter example of your premise that fulfilling the military obligation is the only path to a productive engagement with society.

[slackmaster]

85. Straw Men, Overgeneralizations, and Guilt By Association, Oh My!

By your paragraph you seem to insinuate that military service completes or makes up the largest component of your obligations and responsibilities as a citizen.

No. I have worked in the defense industry. I am physically unqualified for military service. My brother, stepfather, one grandfather, and several cousins have served in the armed forces. Most of them have served in combat.

Your marginalization of people through this one issue is not only overly simplistic, its stupid.

Who do you believe I have marginalized? That was not my intent.

There are other, many other "responsibilities" of a citizen.

Where did I say there weren't other obligations? I was referring to one specific one - The requirement that young men register for the draft, even if they are in the country illegally. Possibly millions of men are presently taking advantage of the benefits of living in this country but shirking that responsibility. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt by suggesting that the reason many of them have failed to register is that they fear it would lead to their deportation. While I have a lot of problems with the Bush guest worker plan, it would eliminate fear of deportation as an excuse for not registering.

To repeat what I and a few other unpopular voices here have said repeatedly: Many people who would be eligible for the guest worker visas are required to register for the draft RIGHT NOW, and they're not doing it.

One need only look to Timothy McVeigh as a stark counter example of your premise that fulfilling the military obligation is the only path to a productive engagement with society.

Timothy McVeigh was a traitor and a mass murderer. Shame on you for trying to associate a career military officer like my brother with a monster like McVeigh.

[are_we_united_yet]

90. Don't you put words in my mouth!!

"Shame on you for trying to associate a career military officer like my brother with a monster like McVeigh."

I NEVER DID SUCH A THING AND I TRULY RESENT YOUR INSINUATION!!!!!

"....as a stark counter example of YOUR PREMISE THAT FULFILLING the military obligation is the only path to a productive engagement with society."

What part of that led you to that conclusion of me equating your brother with Timothy McVeigh??!?!?!? DID YOU READ IT??? DID YOU!!!???

"I have worked in the defense industry. I am physically unqualified for military service. My brother, stepfather, one grandfather, and several cousins have served in the armed forces. Most of them have served in combat."

I have also worked in the Defense Industry and have family who have seen combat as Military people as well. What does that entitle me to? Certainly not to prescribe any dogma to anyone.

"Who do you believe I have marginalized? That was not my intent."
I was speaking to your statement (parenthetically speaking) to "...if you don't like it try Canada." As though that were the ultimate measure of someones net worth. Perhaps that was not your intent, but that is how it came off.

[NicoleM]

37. And how exactly

do they find out if an undocumented immigrant has registered? If they have "papers" on people, they know where to find them and they know if they've registered. Registering will probably be a condition of even getting the work visa.

[truthseeker1]

59. Well, this is part of the plan

to get them to come forward and "document" themselves so the govt. can track them.

If I was an illegal alien, I wouldn't be duped into coming forward. The benefits definitely do not outweigh the costs. I hope they are smart enough to see through Bush's plan.

Also, Republicans should be pissed off because this plan basically acknowledges the illegals and makes them legal. For anyone who is REALLY opposed to illegals, the only solution should be to enforce the law. But Bush won't do that because too many corporations want those illegals to stay. Once again, the corporations get their way. What a bunch of hypocrites.

[sal]

21. thanks for the post

:)

[ElementaryPenguin]

33. You're welcome!

:evilgrin:

[Bushknew]

23. Chinga tu madre Bush

[ElementaryPenguin]

26. Say what? Something about the fuhror's mother...

:shrug:

[Bushknew]

29. It means ...

F your mother Bush

[ElementaryPenguin]

31. Gotcha.

I kinda thought it might mean that. I just wish no one ever had (done that to Bushler's mother).

[proud patriot]

32. That's what was done to My IRISH ancestors during the Civil War

Started the biggest Riots in New York History .

They snagged 'em right off the boats .

[slackmaster]

35. My uncle is from India, his brother came to visit during the Vietnam War

On a visitor's visa. He got called up for the draft, JOINED THE ARMY, and served a tour in 'Nam. That gave him the right to become a US citizen, which he did and has lived happily ever after.

[ElementaryPenguin]

46. Many others were not so lucky.

Sorry, but with all due respect to our military people - who I do appreciate tremendously - shooting at people and being shot at is simply not an official prerequisite for being an American citizen.

[Kinkistyle]

79. He was lucky

He could have been given U.S. citizenship posthumously.

[slackmaster]

87. He had the option of simply going home to India

And not exposing himself to the dangers of war. He chose to join the USA's (misguided, unfortunate, tragic...) cause and become a citizen.

[ElementaryPenguin]

43. Leave it to ChimpCo to repeat a shameful chapter in our history!

Just like the pseudo-McCarthy era we find ourselves in!

[Fescue4u]

38. That sounds reasonably fair

Now I don't support a draft, don't get me wrong.

But if I live in American, enjoy the fruits of America, and as part of that I may be required to serve in the military, then why should others who come here, to enjoy those same fruits have any less responsibility.

If, and its a big if, you are going to draft citizens, I certainly don't have a problem with drafting immigrants on our soil as well.

Finally, those "guest workers" or whatever...THEY have an option that I do not have. If they do not want to be drafted, they have the option of returning home. I don't.

100% fair imo.

[slackmaster]

40. Good point about them having the option of leaving

Kind of deflates the tin-foilers' notion that signing up as a guest worker guarantees they will be available to be thrown into harm's way.

[truthseeker1]

60. Tin-foiler's notion??

Aren't you on the wrong site? This is far from being a tin-foil notion. Geez, man, get a grip!

[slackmaster]

68. I read Bush's motivation quite differently

It's a lame attempt to pander to the Hispanic vote, and it will fail.

[truthseeker1]

69. It's BOTH!

It's a typical Karl Rove plan.

Just because you come to a different conclusion doesn't make those who don't agree with your conclusion tinfoil hat conspiracists.

[slackmaster]

72. The fact that guest workers will be able to LEAVE negates the draft

In the event such a person is drafted he or she will have a CHOICE to serve or to leave the country. If Bush is counting on their numbers to bolster the declining ranks of the Army he's even dumber than I thought.

[ElementaryPenguin]

47. You can vote - they can't.

It isn't reasonable - it's exploitive and outrageous!

[GRClarkesq]

39. Not exactly

Under CURRENT law:

you are required to register if you are a green card holder ("Lawful Permanent Resident"), rufugee or asylee, without legal status i.e. illegal alien, or obviously a US citizen.

You are NOT required to register if you are in valid nonimmigrant status, such as student, visitor, H-1B, L-1 etc...

A temporary worker program would be a nonimmigrant program and not included in the draft. Unless they change the law.

At the moment you cannot enlist unless you have a green card. You can get citizenship faster as opposed to waiting 3 years (if married to a USC) or 5 years for everyone else from the date you obtained your green card.

[ElementaryPenguin]

48. A "guest worker" would not be a nonimmigrant program and will

be included in the draft - count on it!

[truthseeker1]

66. Read it again

Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees. The general rule is that if a male noncitizen takes up residency in the U.S. before his 26th birthday, he must register with Selective Service.

The only exceptions: Noncitizens who are not required to register with Selective Service include men who are in the U.S. on student or visitor visas, and men who are part of a diplomatic or trade mission and their families.

[tom_paine]

41. Now it makes sense

Perhaps the Busheviks will ONLY draft the "gest workers".

You think many in the Empire would stick up for them? HELL, NO! It might mean their sons and daughters might have to go and die for their Emperor (what a lousy reason) and his massive fraud and theft.

[ElementaryPenguin]

49. Even that I wouldn't put past them - and you're right -

There would be no uproar!

[KFC]

51. BFD - they should have to register

Like everyone else. Why the hell not?

[ElementaryPenguin]

54. They can't even vote - and you expect them to be asked to die??

:wtf:

[KFC]

58. As long as they understand registration is a condition of their status

No problem.

This is really not a big deal.

BTW, I registered and am not dead yet. Although eventually it will happen.

[ElementaryPenguin]

64. That is a descipable policy (which is natural, since Bushler supports it)!

How's that for spelling? Yikes! :wtf:

[slackmaster]

75. Asked, not required

Unlike a US citizen who gets drafted, a non-citizen has the right to leave the country without fear of retribution from the US.

[alarimer]

70. because they can't VOTE

it isn't right.

[slackmaster]

74. People here on green cards can't vote either

And they have to register for the draft too.

The counterbalancing benefit is that in the event they are drafted they have another country to flee to, without retribution, if they want to get out of serving. They also have an option to serve in the US military. It's like Monty Hall giving them the choice to keep the money or give it up for what's behind Door #3, only they already know what's behind Door #3.

[AntiCoup2K4]

56. Uhhh.... wait a minute..

Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens....

How exactly do you "require" an illegal alien to register for the draft? Isn't the fact that they DON'T fill out government paperwork what makes them an illegal alien in the first place :crazy:

[truthseeker1]

63. It kind of acknowledges illegals, doesn't it? (nt)

[kiahzero]

61. To inject a little humor:

"Almost all other male noncitizens are required to register, including illegal aliens, legal permanent residents, and refugees."

I wonder if there's a checkbox on the form:

"Please check here if you are an illegal immigrant:"

[Walt Starr]

62. Illegal aliens always had to register

There just was no incentive for them to register prior to amnesty.

The manesty has a string attached, the person must comply with the registration requirement.

Now we know how Bush plans to continue getting his war on.

[ElementaryPenguin]

65. Bingo, Mr. Starr!

:toast:

[jokerman93]

71. Privatization of War

Another angle on this is the coming privatization of war. Foreign guest workers, may very well be offered "opportunities" to support the war effort. I suspect we're about to witness a redefinition of many concepts and institutions we've always thought of as fundamental in our country.

Don't like the draft? Bush is a peace lover. Call it something else. Call it a job that American's just don't fill...

Whatever this scheme is, if it's real at all, there will be a phase two which will bring it into focus when it's two late to turn things around. That's what these neocon black magicians always do!

[David Zephyr]

73. "An entire slave labor class and a bountiful supply of cannon fodder"

E.P. You summed it all up perfectly. Perfectly.

At this very moment there are officers with the armed forces in Central American nations resisting their purchased parliments decisions to send their boys to Iraq to fight in Bush's Oil war.

James Baker delivers the Saudi bribe money to the leaders of small nations who in turn "decide" to sacrifice the young sons of their very own citizens.

Blood for Oil. Blood for Oil. Blood for Oil. Blood for Oil.

[ElementaryPenguin]

76. Good post, David Z! At least these greedy bastards know that...

A lot of people are on to them at this juncture - our ranks growing everyday!

:mad:

[RobinA]

80. Bingo!!!

I figured this one out yesterday. I don't think this is their primary reason for proposing this, the big reason is to get the Hispanic vote. But it's a nice bonus if the bill ever passes. Personally, I don't think they ever plan to act on this idea. It'll die out after the election. Same with this moon BS.

[arwalden]

88. Told You So.

sigh.

[anarchy1999]

89. It is already happening. True story

This summer, in Dallas, I was having lunch at a Tex-Mex restaurant in Deep Ellum. The young hispanic man serving me handed me the tray with my receipt and a pen to sign with. On the pen was ARMY. When he returned I started to ask him a few questions. Yes, the pen had come from a recruiter. No, he was not a citizen, nor was his family. Yes, he was working and taking a few classes (citizenship and English). Yes, he was going to join the Army so he could get citizenship faster and or not be deported.

Fortunately for me that day, I had articles about what was really going on including one about the dangers of Depleted Uranium. I gave him the articles and shared a few thoughts with him and asked him to please reconsider and not join. He thanked me and I left.

A few weeks later I returned for lunch, curious to see if he was there. He was, he thanked me and told me he had decided not to enlist and shared the information with others.

One person, one day at a time.

And to repeat "THEY" are already doing this!