Question to "White" DUers

[Bandit]

Is there any word or description of you that you consider horribly racist? Honky or Cracker or Gringo or ????? I personally am not offended by anything I have heard as a single descriptive word for whites. Whitey is probably the most offensive and it doesn't really bother me. Why is it that most other races get so offended by a word or two? I guess it's because of systematic racism emanating from the white society instead of the other way around. Just curious if I'm the only one who feels this way.

[underpants]

1. I can't really say that there is

Not that I can think of anyway.

[StClone]

3. Same here

Being called a "Bush lover" or "Freeper" is as scary as it gets.

[bif]

2. Well, not "White" specific

But various ethnic groups which come under the umbrella of "white" have slang terms that are offensive, that's for sure. I'm Polish and I find the term Pollack pretty offensive.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

14. why do we call people from Poland "Poles" and not people from

Holland "Holes"?

[bif]

26. What about people from Antarctica?

Or the North Pole? Shouldn't they be called "Poles"?

[supernova]

49. SNARF!

Good question! :thumbsup:

edit: While there are certainly derogatory ethnic labels for the various white sub-groups, I don't think there is a word that packs the same emotional kick in the gut to whites that the "N" word does to blacks.

I'm white btw.

[Pontus]

139. Many are "ho" though.

In Holland.

[foreigncorrespondent]

166. OMG!

ROFLMAO!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

15. oops dupe

[Whitacre D_WI]

4. Well, I'm not offended to be called a "whitey," BUT...

as you said, I have never experienced systematic racism. I have never had my rights violated because of my race. I have never lost a job or place of residence because of my race. I've never been beat down by anybody because of my race, or had my life threatened because of my race.


In other words, I got no right to tell other folks what they should or shouldn't be offended by.

[Faygo Kid]

5. Republican: 50 year old white guy who hates the stereotype

Just because I am in my 50s and of Scandinavian descent (yah sure), I am automatically considered a natural supporter of Bush and a conservative. I hate that. So, I don't care about epithets; I do care about stereotypes.

[Stuckinthebush]

31. Use it!

Infiltrate the GOP ranks and pass for a GOPer. Then, you can plant reality into their perspective little by little.

I look like a card-carrying Republican. It can be useful.

Of course, the Dean sticker on my car gives me away. Oh, well....

[Faygo Kid]

38. Some things I just can't do

Unlike the Repukes, I think I will hang on to my integrity, and advocate my positions honestly.

[Love Bug]

71. OT: Which way did he go? Which way did he go? ...

He went for FAYGO!

(sorry--your name made me do it!)

I actually have 2 12 packs of Faygo Redpop in my fridge as I type this!

[ProfessorGAC]

6. Any Racial Epithet Is Unacceptable

Not just as a white guy being called a name meaning "white guy". There are no acceptable uses for racial epithets, no matter who's saying it or about whom they're saying it.

I don't use any. I don't want to be called any.
The Professor

[Superfly]

7. Sticks and stones and all

I could not care less what somebody called me.

[Timefortruth]

8. White trash is offensive to me.

I'm not sure that I'm considered white trash, but when I hear someone called that it bothers me. Maybe because it dehumanizes those spoken of much the way any other pejorative racist term does to those groups.

That said, that expression is not as vulgar as many racist terms.

[waylon]

19. Yes, white trash

I have never been called that but I dont like it when I hear it. It implies that white's have some special niche that excludes us from being trashy. Its like a special club or something. Trash is trash but if you are white trash, well thats even worse.

Whats worse, it usually comes from white people. Like they dont think trashy is bad enough, they have to qualify it by implying that becuse you are white, you shouldnt be trashy.

Sounds crazy I know but qualifying anything with a color implies that that specific color should somehow be genetically immune from that label.

[trackfan]

23. While I don't mind being called White Trash myself,

I think the term is offensive to NON-WHITES, because it implies that most whites are so "good" as to not merit the label "trash", where as no such assumption is afforded non-whites.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

105. When done by rich people or yuppies, damn right it's offensive

same with "Trailer Trash". Now, I'm allowed to call myself that, but you are not (unless you are one of us).

[rucky]

147. "White trash" is more offensive to minorities

if you think about it.

I'll accept any other labels thrown at me. I'm no particularly proud of the white accomplishments as a race. Nor do i really identify with ANY race.

[Cat Atomic]

9. Depends on the setting, really.

When I'm in Mexico, I'll get pissed if someone calls me gringo. If I'm back home and one of my mexican friends calls me that, it's funny.

[Cocoa]

44. that's how I see it

"white boy" is very intimidating if I'm alone in a black neighborhood, but can also be completely benign if it's someone I know.

[kysrsoze]

109. Depends on the situation - I'm a whitey

I'm the token "white guy" to my Indian friends. They refer to me as "white Rob" b/c there are more than one Rob. Personally, I love the term "white trash" because there is no other fitting way to classify the caucasions who represent the absolute worst of ANY race(absolute scum), though I can see how someone of a different race can find the term offensive.

But yeah, I've been called "whitey" or "white boy" in a derogative manner before and I didn't like it - so I guess the situation is the key.

[info being]

10. We deserve whatever name we're called

[forgethell]

33. Speak for yourself

n/t

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

106. maybe you do, don't get me involved please

Thanks.

[RandomKoolzip]

11. No. Call me anything. I don't care.

n/t

[King Coal]

13. Ok, Mr. LateForSupper

[RandomKoolzip]

17. Ouch! You hurt my feelings!

Anyways, my real name is "Mr. Smoketoomuch."

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

85. well, you'd better cut down a bit then!

I'm sorry, I just couldn't help myself :(

[bluestateguy]

12. Depends

I can't really muster the energy to get all worked up over name calling of "white" people, but various "white" ethnicities can be offensively slurred with the following words: dago, wop, heb, kraut, mick, canuck, kike, polack and rusky.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

21. it all depends on the tone

[Bunny]

28. Is Canuck bad?

I never thought it was a perjorative. I've used it many times to refer to our friends up north. I've called myself a Canuck-o-phile! If it's a bad word, I'm very sorry.

I don't get offended by whitey, honky, cracker, etc. I've always been curious as to the origins of honky and cracker, tho. Where are they derived from? Anyone know?

[KansDem]

42. Here's what I found...

Honky:
I used to think this referred to the nasal quality of whites, but here is what the book Black Talk: Words and Phrases from the Hood to the Amen Corner says: A negative term for a white person. Probably derived and borrowed from the name-calling and expression of resentment by settled European Americans against central and Eastern European immigrants, who were negatively referred to as “hunkies” (from Hungarians). Blacks, in competition with these immigrants in the first half of the 20th century, generalized the term to all whites. Also “hunky.”

Cracker:
A white person; a derogatory term. Possibly derived from the sound of the master’s whip during enslavement; by extension, any white person. (from the same source above).

[Bunny]

43. Good find!

Thanks!

[Nazgul35]

133. Actually cracker comes from...

the term used to describe cowboys from the south east region of the US who use to drive their cattle with....

you guessed it: WHIPS...hence the name crackers....

[Solomon]

144. And I thought "honky" came from

honkytonk ala Mae West.

[kysrsoze]

110. Evidently "Nork" is the bad term for Canadians - but I like Canadians

[Butterflies]

47. What is a "kike"

It sounds like something Archie Bunker would say.

[Marian]

101. Yes, he would and did.

It's one of the many slurs for a Jew.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

102. Derogatory term for Jew

sounds like something Bush/Cheney would say!

[jmowreader]

114. It's also something Gunnery Sergeant Hartman said

"I am hard but I am fair. There is no racial bigotry here. I do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless."

[King Coal]

16. Poo Poo Pants is a downer.

[DBoon]

18. Depends on the context

Are you talking about me or that other "stupid ass whitey"?

Of course I am offended if you are referring to me that way.

It is always someone else that is a "stupid ass whitey". Especially if they are Republican

[Cleita]

20. How do you feel about being called white trash or

trailer trash? I once referred to a demographic of white people as rednecks and had every white DU'er on the board at the time attack me for racism.

[Rich Hunt]

46. class

...because it's a derogatory term based on class, that's why. If I and my friends refer to ourselves as 'white trash', it's funny, but when someone uses it in all seriousness, it REALLY p's me off.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

107. agreed

same with "trailer trash". "Redneck" is not all that offensive anymore, I don't think.

[DevGrrrl]

119. anything being said with the intention of being hurtful

is fucked up. I do think White trash and Trailor Trash is classist and not racist though. It's something my friends and I will refer to ourselves as playfully, but it pisses me off if some yuppy is calling us or others that in seriousness.

[arcane1]

22. none of those words bother me, however...

if my ancestors had to live with 400 years of slavery and sub-human social status, I admit that I might feel differently..

[Jane Roe]

36. Everybody's ancestors lived with 400 years of slavery and . . .

sub-human conditions at some point. The important question is: at what point do we give old, yet legitimate, grudges a rest. This question is important for American blacks, Native Americans, Jewish people, Arab Palestinians, victims of the Vikings, foreign races enslaved by ancient Greeks, foreign races enslaved by medieval Mongolians, etc. etc, etc.

I don't think we could ever politically atone for all the sins of our ancestors and I don't think even think we should try if enough time has passed between our ancestors and us. I think the time has pretty much passed on new Native American land reparation claims. I think the time has also passed on complaints about slavery. However, I do not think the time has passed for complaints based on the injustice of Jim Crow era racism.

[Jane Roe]

24. Answer and a story

I am white. I am offended when I am called a "racist" by people haven't read my writing or heard me speak. This tended to happen in graduate school. The argument was that we are all unavoidably racist as a large-scale sociological matter, so it is okay to select out ceratin white individuals and call them "racist." I didn't buy into that argument then and I don't buy it now.

The story:

One time I was walking down the street. A black man in a doorway called out to me: "Hey, Poindexter White."

I was somewhat offended and called back, "Hey, Poindexter Black."

The man seemed annoyed at my response and approached me. I turned around and stood facing him. When the man got close to me he stood looking into my eyes for a few seconds and then he slapped me lightly on the side of his head with the back of his hand. then he went back to the doorway. Some of the man's companions laughed at this. I was scared, but I do not regret standing up against his racist epithet in the way I did.

[Sparkle]

39. Uh...Is your name Poindexter White?

Just joking. Seriously, that was a good comeback to that guy. You startled him by flipping the switch. He probably didn't call you that anymore, I'll bet. Good for you. (I'm black, btw)

[pdx_prog]

167. So....

Any idea what a "pointdexter White" is?.....rofl

[Stuckinthebush]

25. Not really

Race and power do really combine to form effective racism. You can call me anything you wish, but it doesn't hurt me because I have power. The calling of names in a vacuum is meaningless, however, if the name is used to dis-empower someone, then it is truly hurtful. You can't dis-empower me because our society has given me power due to the lack of pigment in my skin. Insane, but true.

Of course, if an individual hates a person simply because he/she is white, then this would be characterized as racism. However, that person is without social power to put their racist rhetoric into full scale real-world effect. A white person who uses racist rhetoric has the societal power to actually hurt the person who is being targeted via mostly economic means. It is more likely that a white person is in a position of economic power due to the years of dis-empowerment of African Americans. So, that same white person can use their inherited economic position to ensure that an African American doesn't gain economic power.

Sure, racism is racism...but the power part of the equation is what puts words into reality.

Nasty stuff, racism.

[trackfan]

27. None really offend me - I'm Italian, and I not only don't mind

being called Wop, Dago, Greaser, etc., I actually relish it. To me, it is just silliness; a minor source of mirth. I don't mean to dismiss the feelings of anyone who IS offended by being called a name; that's just how I feel about it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

88. spagetti bender?

[trackfan]

92. I forgot about that one.

And Guinea. The short, semi-conical, Italian cigars my grandpa smoked used to be referred to as "guinea stinkers".

[NashVegas]

29. It's Not What You Say ..

It's how you say it.

You can call me any of the names listed in this thread, just make sure you say them with a smile in your voice.

[ShimokitaJer]

30. labels are offensive in proportion to their potential for oppression

Since whites (and white males more specifically) have historically held the vast majority of wealth and power in America, the names used to stereotype them do not have the same impact as the ones used by a ruling class to reinforce the lower social position of minorities. Names like "whitey" or "honky" grew out of resistance to the ruling class, and even when they were accompanied by a sense of black superiority, they did not have the same impact because blacks in American society did not hold economic and political power over whites. By the same token, even if some blacks have co-opted the use of the word "nigger," altering it's original meaning when it is used by blacks, it remains offensive when it is used by whites, since it it can be used to prop up a still very real difference in power and earning potential.

There is nothing inherently offensive about these labels; it is their use to reinforce existing social inequalities that makes them offensive.

[Redleg]

51. Very well stated. You get an A-plus!

I hope some of these other posters learn something from it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

113. right - it's the difference between racism and bigotry

Anyone can be a bigot, it's common among all ethnic groups. It's when bigotry is backed up with power; social, economic, and physical, that it becomes racist.

[spooky3]

124. excellent post!

[mbali]

165. Thank you!

I was sitting here trying to figure out how to explain this but you articulated it so beautifully!

Thanks.

[forgethell]

32. The words don't offend me; however,

the hypocrisy of those that use them, and are offended by the derogatory words for their own group does. If, say, using the "n" word, or the "g" word, or some others offends Bill, then Bill should practice what he preaches and not use the "w" word or the "h" word or the "rn" word.

[Stuckinthebush]

35. OK...I give

What is the RN word?

RhiNoplasty?

Registered Nurse?

RhiNelander?

Help!

[ShimokitaJer]

37. Randy Newman

Actually, I (mistakenly?) read that one as a lower case M. Still don't know what it means though.

[forgethell]

64. redneck

n/t

[PVnRT]

34. Nope

Chiefly because whites haven't been oppressed for centuries, thus there are no words that have been used to degrade them.

[Rich Hunt]

actually, some have ...

Not everyone came over on the Mayflower.

[MrSlayer]

40. No, not at all.

Cracker, Honky, White Boy, Grey Meat. I've heard them all and I've never been offended. I don't even know what the hell honky is supposed to mean. White people like to break down into ethnic backgrounds for their jokes and derogatory names. None of that stuff offends me either.

[htuttle]

41. Who really thinks of themselves as 'White'?

Well, for one, nobody is actually 'white' (or black, for that matter). In the winter, my skin is usually about the color of uncured poplar wood -- that's kind of a very light beige, not white. (a little off topic, but have you noticed that humans come in all the same shades as wood?).

Most 'white' people identify more with one of their ancestral backgrounds, like German, Italian, Irish, etc... Except for Martin Mull, maybe. If you want to offend a 'white' person, call them something to do with their ancestors.

'White' is a synthetic ethnic group.

[ShimokitaJer]

45. If you saw me naked, you'd think of me as pretty damned white

The glare from the light reflecting off my pasty white flesh would blind you.

[Cleita]

57. Well, I look white even though

I'm a mixture of Northern European (Dutch, German and Scotch/Irish) on my father's side and Mediterranean European (Spanish and Italian) and Native American (Mapuche) on my mother's side. I always considered it unimportant until people started to try to pigeonhole me as a Hispanic, so I refer to myself as such although it's a racist term itself. Unfortunately, the word has creeped into common usage so one must accept that it's there.

[Bandit]

52. Are you old enough to remember Crayola's Flesh color?

Talk about incidious. America was racist to the core in the fifties and early sixties. I have newspapers from 1943 with headlines saying "Japs bomb Alaska"

[supernova]

56. The infamous "Flesh" crayon

yes I do remember that, and I had one, several acutally. I preferred the 64 box set myself.

I thought it was rather dumb, as it was self-evident that not all "flesh" was a kind of creamy pink/orange.

[forgethell]

65. I remember them, too.

Actually, if your flesh was that particular color, you probably had some kind of glandular disease, or maybe some vitamin deficiency.

[Logansquare]

97. If your flesh matches the "Flesh" crayon..

then you're probably Barbie :-)

[shanti]

73. if you've ever met a pure englishman

you will see a WHITE person!

[ShimokitaJer]

79. What about the twin English brothers

who played the ghosts in Matrix Reloaded. Those dudes were WHITE... and that wasn't just the makeup.

[corporatewhore]

123. The "whitest" person i know is actually half mexican

he is whiter than all the white kids who go to my school

[shanti]

74. if you've ever met a pure englishman

you will see a WHITE person!

[shanti]

75. if you've ever met a pure englishman

you will see a WHITE person!

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

115. what about American whites who don't know their European subgroup?

I did a little research on my ancestry - we've been here since the early 1700s at least, and I have no idea which selection or combination of English, German, French, Scandinavian, Italian, Greek, etc., I am, if any.

In fact, the only ethnic group that I am sure about is Cherokee.

So I'm White. At least, that's what they tell me :eyes:

[Redleg]

48. You would be offended if people of your race had been recently enslaved

and had been denied the many rights that the members of the dominant race claimed were god-given. Racial epithets are naturally more offensive to people who perceive that their people have been oppressed. Racial epithets have much more meaning for oppressed minorities than for the white majority. Try a little empathy- you might learn from it.

[forgethell]

66. Still, if you insult others

racially, you can hardly complain if they return the insult in kind. Your extra sensitivity means nothing to them.

[slackmaster]

50. I've never been fond of "peckawood"

Or peckerwood, however it's spelled. But I shed even that like water off a duck's back.

[T Bone]

134. Peckerwood, what do you suppose is the origin of that ?

Someone upthread did a really good job of explaining the origins of HONKY, totally different than what i thought it was. How did the black community come up with Peckawood ?

[libview]

53. Well, I hate it when my wife calls me

a lazy piece of shit!
that really hurts.

[sandnsea]

135. Well then clean the garage!!

I thought I'd stand in for your mother-in-law for a moment!

54. these are generally considered offensive

white trash
wop
spic
dago
pollack
mick

-- as they should be. Notice they all came into being related to immigration and economic status it appears.

But probably, in general, the reason derogatory terms for whites are not considered as offensive is because they are not being spoken by the powered class against the disempowered. The terms above were, maybe that's part of where their offensiveness comes from.

[spooky3]

125. good point. Another analogy to the power issue;

not a perfect one, but maybe useful anyway.

When a child calls his or her parent a nasty name, it has a very different effect than when the parent says "you're a worthless, no good, POS that will never amount to anything." The former is bad manners, and is behavior that the parent will probably have the power to eventually stop. The latter is abusive and harmful.

[youngred]

55. not that I can think of

:shrug: no name really bothers me

[Kimble]

58. LOL! THIS THREAD HAS REALLY GOT ME GOING! OMG OMG!

First of all it doesn’t take 400 years of oppression to get the feeling of racism that you are all describing. No one lives that long anyway.

Go to Japan for a week, and you will know what I am talking about. Better yet do a search on teaching conversational English in Japan and read the stories from people who have done it. Go to France, Italy, Mexico or for that matter anywhere where people don’t have regular interaction with people that look like you. You will get a great dose of how it doesnt even take being called a name to feel hate or disaproval.

Hell, Italians refer commonly to Americans – and I mean commonly, as in including American-born full-blooded Italians – as dogs. Well, Ameri-cani- or Amer-dogs. Its just like I would think of Mississippi in the ’50s. People don’t even know they are using a derogatory word.

By the way, when the average English person call us Yanks – they don’t mean Heyas pall! It just means they aren’t using a adjective before Yank. I only had to hear someone say “Black Yank” once to realize they were insulting me too. Kinda like the “White Trash” remark.

BTW, none of these terms were born in the last 3, 12, or 20 years. We may not have helped it any in the last 3, but it sure hasn’t fallen any farther than the rock-bottom level these attitudes have been at for a long long time.

[On the Road]

59. I Have Actually Had the Experience

of being called a racial epithet as the only white person in a black setting.

When I was younger, I worked in a 24-hour diner (Steak & Egg Kitchen) in Durham, NC. It was a busy weekend night (New Year's Eve, I believe) and the clientele was almost all black. One of my tables began summoning me by shouting "Hey, Arnold!" The first time I ignored the wording and answered them. Unfortunately, that only encouraged them to keep doing it. So I just didn't respond any more. I overheard heard one of them say "Funny, he usually answers."

It was alarming experience, partly because it was so open. I wasn't really angry, it was just strange. I really had no idea what to do. It did make me concious of people who encounter racial slurs all the time.

[library_max]

60. Epithets don't have the same sting when you're on top.

People who are supported by their society and their peers in their ethnic worth don't have the same kind of vulnerability to epithets and slurs that people have who are trying to stand up for themselves against a more-or-less hostile society. When the slaves made fun of massa (to use an extreme example), it was merely taking a tiny bit of their own back, the very least one could allow them. When massa makes fun of the slaves, it's cruel and demeans them both.

This is why "white trash" is the epithet that stings. It's not racist but classist, and it's an insult by those on top against those on the bottom.

[BigDaddyLove]

76. My thoughts exactly....

Except the part about 'white trash'. Though I've never been referred to as white trash (that I'm aware of), even if I was I don't think it would bother me.

[library_max]

90. But it might if it applied to you, which I'm assuming it doesn't.

That is to say, if the class implication applied to you (it doesn't to me, for example, I'm middle-middle class). I don't mean to say that the term is a fair and accurate description of anybody, only that it hurts people who are its natural target a lot more than people who aren't and who therefore can laugh it off.

[BigDaddyLove]

128. White trash...........

isn't always a class distinction; that is, I know a lot of people who don't live in trailer parks, beat their wives and drink all day but they are certainly 'trash' and happen to be white....so I think in this case 'white trash' does indeed accurately describe some people. It doesn't always have to (literally) do with class (unless you mean a lack thereof).

[Tansy_Gold]

151. A perfect example

I've seen this several times on DU and it bothers me -- the implication that people who live in "trailer parks" are somehow "trash."

I have lived in mobile home parks on several occasions in my life, and I *do* feel insulted when the terms "trailer" and "trash" are used together as if they constitute a single concept -- all those who are trash live in trailers, and all those who live in trailers are trash.

[eissa]

156. White trash story

A close friend of mine and her husband (both white, educated, and very nice people) come from families that they both affectionately describe as "white trash." In fact, they actually had a contest going as to whose family was more wt. They were tied for a while, but in the end he won -- his family buries their trash in the backyard!

I'm middle eastern and I accept most terms by the tone they are given in. The friend above has referred to me as a "camel jockey" but I know she says it with love; whereas our racist neighbors in my childhood town called me "sand nigger" which I didn't think was very nice.

I try to let people tell me what they wish to be referred to. I interchange the terms "black" and "African American" as I have black friends who prefer to be categorized as one or the other. The same for other ethnic groups. The only group that I use my own terms for are repukes -- I just refer to them all as "fuckers."

[coolhand27]

61. White boy

I hear that one more and more these days. That's the only one that really makes me mad because it gets thrown around alot like it's acceptable compared to terms like cracker or honky. If I get called a cracker or honky I just laugh, but when I get called white boy, I get mad.

[Fish-Slapping_Dance]

62. I do, too,

and let's not kid ourselves. It's meant to denigrate.

Either racial, ethnic and let's add gender slurs and epithets are wrong or they're not. Let's don't further sub-stratify ourselves by saying to one group that you can't say those things, while saying to others, "Oh, you're oppressed, you go right on ahead" (patting them on their head patronizingly).

Don't give me that power argument, either. If a poor white person called a black police chief or a hispanic CEO or a female lawmaker a charged epithet, it still would be bad, even though those people have far more power than does the poor white.

Either it's wrong, or it isn't. Let's not go carving out exceptions for certain groups.

[forgethell]

68. finally,

someone who gets it!!

[ShimokitaJer]

69. No one's saying it's fine to dismiss racism by minorities

Or if they are saying it, they're wrong. But you have to admit that a word's power to offend has a direct correlation with the degree to which it reflects actual power relationships, not of individuals but of groups. A poor white man using racial epithets against a black, hispanic, or woman is offensive not because he has more power than his target, but because the terms reflect the real social power gap between white males and everyone else. The term associates himself with the empowered elite and his target with the underclass, despite the obvious disjuncture with reality. The same is true if a hispanic woman chooses to call a black man "nigger," since that is a term that was used perjoratively by the elites while keeping blacks "in their place." The fact that she has no relationship to the power elites does not change the offensiveness of the term, since it is still a term used to continue the oppression.

But because whites have never been an underclass in America, none of the terms for white people have the same sting as those used for minorities. Does that make them acceptable? Of course not, but it explains why few of them manage to offend a white person who hears it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

118. there are plenty of whites who are underclass in America

I'm starting to understand why DU doesn't get it - most of DU is white but few people on DU are underclass whites.

White people who live in the suburbs with other white people can post about how being called a "white boy" doesn't bother him. Of course not - why would it?

Now a white person living in a neighborhood with few other whites, working at a job with only another ethnic group, and being in a minority can understand it. Among the urban white working class, being called a "white boy" and "Arnold" in front of a crowd of black or latino people sure as hell does has social and possibly physical power behind it.

If you've never lived it, I guess you wouldn't understand.

[ShimokitaJer]

131. There are whites who are underclass, but no "white underclass"

It's a way of defining people by group based on race. Poor whites may be defined by their class, but there is no assumption made that they are an underclass BECAUSE they are white.

[DrWeird]

70. How about the term "redskins"?

nt

[JanMichael]

63. I was called "European". Yes, it pissed me off.

Context: Living room of Black Activist.

Who: Me, the Activist, and her boyfriend (Longtime NAACP person).

Situation: Discussing several city projects in the area. At one point the Activist called,in a dispariging way, another Black group that I worked with, "Caribbean Blacks", I then tried to explain that we're all on the same "Team". In order to let me know that I didn't have a clue as to the mindset of the Black Community I was then called, nicely mind you, a "European".

So yes?

ON EDIT: Being a member of the oppressor class, sex and race, I can hardly bitch too much. This is just an example.

[laruemtt]

80. hubby's jamaican and

he was "recruited" to join the "black group" at a college we worked at together. he politely declined as he, like me (white), didn't divide people into colors. all i know is he is the most beautiful roan color i've ever seen!

[Logansquare]

96. Yes-it's not the word, but the meaning intended

"European" was used to minimalize your opinion. Oh, you aren't relevant--you are one of "them."

[laruemtt]

67. my family's italian and

we've all at one time or another been called dego or wop with derision. we have called ourselves that with pride and laugh at it. no problem with our self esteem. if the person who uses it thinks it's a diss, it's a reflection of their lack of pride, NOT ours.

[spooky3]

126. with all due respect

I think your family would feel differently if Italian-Americans were today seen as undesirable people by the majority of others, with lower average salaries than other groups and systematically underrepresented in prestigious jobs, neighborhoods, etc., as they were 60 or so years ago by some people.

[Loonman]

72. "Native American"

I'm an American Indian, dammit!!!!!!!!!


Only half-Anglo, but I am guilty of saying "Shaddup Whitey", more than once.

[kcwayne]

78. My Great Grandfather was Cherokee, and my father was born

on a reservation in Oklahoma. My Grandmother who has half blooded always passed for white, and the understanding/teaching of the culture stopped with her.

So I am only partially connected to my heritage as an Indian, but I feel like Native Indian is much more indicative. Some of my ancestors were on this continent long before Amerigo Vespucci, from which the name America derived, was even born. So I don't feel like giving credit to this Portugese map maker to the entirety of my heritage.

[laruemtt]

83. wasn't ol' amerigo

italian? thought so, anyway. always felt i had to live that down... feel guilty about columbus too

[kcwayne]

89. You are right, he was born in Florence

I mis-remembered that. He had voyages from Lisbon and was hanging around that area when he developed his maps, so I figured he was Portugese.

My take on Columbus that he was not the root cause of the horrific events that led to the genocide of the people already inhabiting North and South America. It would have been somebody else if it had not of been Columbus.

Frankly, I fault the Christian religion, in that after 1500 years of practice, it had not developed a sense of morality that would have prevented its practioners from acting with no humanity. At the same time, my ancestors had alot of the same faults in that inter-tribal wars were one of the weaknesses that left us unprepared to deal with the European onslaught.

[Loonman]

86. Portugese Pickle Seller

Pickles played an important role in Colombus’s discovery of America in 1492. Around the time of Colombus, many transoceanic voyages were thwarted because crews suffered from scurvy, a disease caused by lack of vitamin C. Colombus’s ship stocker, a man named Amerigo Vespucci, stored ample quantities of vitamin C-rich pickles on the Niña, Pinta, and Santa Maria, helping to prevent scurvy outbreaks on the historic voyage across the Atlantic. As it turns out, America’s name is derived from the pickle merchant Vespucci, who became an explorer.

http://www.exploratorium.edu/cooking/pickles/history.html


-------------------------------------------------------------------

I just prefer it to "Native American". It's so PC and nicey-nice, and I'd rather point out the implied stupidity of Columbus.

[eissa]

152. I'm confused

I guess this is a great opportunity to get educated! I've always tried to use the term "Native American" rather than Indian. I always thought "Indian" was derogatory as that name was given to the population Columbus encountered when he thought he reached India. Am I wrong on this?

[outinforce]

77. "Racist Because You Are White"

Every time I hear that phrase, I consider it to be terribly racist, because it prejudges me because of my skin color.

[Skittles]

81. it's a balance of power thing

I'm as white as a sheet of paper and "white" slurs don't bother me, but I've VERY offended by sexist slurs.

[noonwitch]

82. Honky, cracker, whitey-none of them offend me

None of those terms have the type of history as the n word does, in that that word carries a whole ton of implications of superiority and racism. I actually think honky is funny. Cracker-well, I always said that there's a reason the restaurant is called Cracker Barrell. This was verified for me when one of the local branches started firing employees when the managers found out they were gay.

[jpgray]

84. Well, since we're in charge, it's easy for us to shrug it off.

You know when the popular kid yelled names at you in school, it hurt, but when you tried to fire back, it somehow wasn't effective? One of you had power and one of you didn't--that's the way it adds up. :)

[CalebHayes]

87. After what us "whites" have put other races though... I don't care one bit

[kysrsoze]

116. See, that's not really fair. I hate listening to that over and over

I hold no responsibility, nor guilt for what other 'white' people may have done in the past. My family came over on the boat in the early 1900's and my generation is, without a doubt, the most fortunate.

My grandparents and great grandparents on both sides were dirt-poor. My mom has told me many stories of having to eat squirrel and rabbit b/c they could not afford meat from the supermarket. My father joined the army reserves for cash, then worked for years before he even got his bachelor's degree. Even in grad-school, I was working two jobs while my ex-wife (fiancee at the time) was on receiving welfare to try and make ends meet for our family. I know humility.

I've been very fortunate mainly due to both my parents' hard work, especially during the many times my dad had been laid off or right-sized - NOT because I'm white.

Yes, some white people did a lot of bad things, but like any other race, you can't judge the entire race by a small subset. Nowadays the reality is that anyone of any race in the U.S. can be completely fucked, both socially and financially. Yes, there is still systemic racism, but the bigger problem these days is classism.

The real devils are the upper-middle class and rich bastards who care about no one but themselves. That's why people like the Hilton sisters et al truly disgust me. They have everything handed to them and don't appreciate any of it. Further, they lump us all in with everyone else who is not rich.

[CalebHayes]

136. I will put up with it. "I" will. You may not.

[Logansquare]

91. I hate "Caucasian"

My ancestors are not from the Caucasus mountains. I don't like it any more than a black person would like being called "Negroid," the equivalent term according to 19th century racial theory.

[library_max]

99. If you go back far enough, they are (if you're white).

All the white European peoples and the Aryan peoples of India and the middle east originated from apparent mutants that the Egyptians called "Hyksos" who had white skins, blue eyes, and red hair and who originated in the Caucasus region.

[Cleita]

100. Mutants?

I'm sorry that made me laugh.

[library_max]

145. Well,

Otherwise, the Homo sapiens standard is black hair, brown eyes, and brown skin, more or less. So I don't think it's a farfetched term, although I guess I can see how it might be funny, especially given European history.

[Cleita]

148. Well, you really don't know.

No skin or hair has been preserved from Cro-Magnon so you don't know what color they were. Incidentally many aborigine children are blond before their hair darkens as well as many Micronesians. It isn't because of European sailors either. It is part of their heritage. I think our homo erectus ancestors came in all hues and passed it on to us.

[corporatewhore]

93. do you guys find this offensive ?

i was talking with my classmate who is from Iran and another boy in my class came up to us and went on and called my friend Aladdin and asked about turbans and my friend tried to explain to him that he wasnt Arab nor Muslim nor Iraqi and the other boy just couldnt get it through his fat head that he was Persian.After he told him to fuck off he groaned and said ugghhh stupid white people.My one of my other friends said that was a tiny bit offensive. I dont know sometimes i feel the same way some times when people think that Mexico Cuba Puerto Rico etc etc are one in the same.

btw i am half native mexican half irish but my skin is brown so i am considered not "white" my sister has fair skin and can be "white" or latina (aint weird the way race works in our society

[jpgray]

95. In Arabian Nights, Aladdin is supposedly in China.

Strange but true. :D

[corporatewhore]

122. had no idea guess you learn something new in du everyday

[corporatewhore]

94. Last summer i called Tom Delay whitey when he played jim crow

was that a faux pas?

[Cheswick2.0]

98. as a white person, NO... as a woman YES

Racism is to keep those who are on the bottom down. So no on the white question.
Sexism exists to keep women down. So yes, as a woman I felt offense towards sexism from all shades of men, but mostly by white guys.

[Marian]

103. I believe we agree; I

just might have written it differently.

When there is such a history of privilege, generally a member of said privileged group would not be offended as they have so benefitted from the system.

However, as others throughout the thread have pointed out, there are other groups who happen to be white but are either minority or kept down where words can still hurt.

In particular I think of slurs against Jews and women.

It's all about power - and powerlessness

[Kathy in Cambridge]

104. As A Woman, I Find There is A Lot of Acceptable 'Sexist' Language

I don't get offended by language that disses whites on a whole but slurs that denigrate individual ethnic groups I do find offensive.

[Cleita]

112. Yes, there is so much sexist language even here on

DU and the male members don't seem to see anything offensive about it. We haven't had a good sexist thread lately because Skinner sort of banned them, but it really brings out the misogynism inherent in our culture.

[Draven]

108. Nope.

No racist remarks towards me have offended me. I shrug 'em off like I shrug off any other demeaning remark.

[rasputin1952]

111. Actually, I have a problem with stereotypical ...

"name calling" by any group or individual.

I don't particularly being called a "white boy", just as I wouldn't like being called a "black boy", if I were black.

I don't like being called a "dick", just as I wouldn't want to be called a "bitch, if I were a woman.

It comes down to this simple rule for me:

If you show respect, you'll get respect; if you show disrespect, expect the same back.

When I was in the Army, I had a run in with a black soldier who stated, "You don't like me because I'm black"!
To which I replied, "Not at all, I don't like you because you're an asshole. I don't care about your color, religion or anything else, I just think you are an asshole". (He had let the squad down by leaving his post).

O8)

[Piperay]

117. No, I don't find any of it

offensive. I find being called a 'bitch' the very most offensive but that has nothing to do with race. I have thought of this before too and I think it must be because when everything goes your way and you don't encounter racism on a daily basis you just don't feel put down. I dunno know, it is very hard to explain. :shrug:

[LeahMira]

120. Sometimes...

Is there any word or description of you that you consider horribly racist?

It depends on the context, I guess.

I don't think that a person really needs to call another person a name to prove they are racist. The way they speak, the tone of voice, the body language and so on are what tells the tale.

[LifeDuringWartime]

121. names dont offend me

:)

[bleedingheart]

127. When i was a kid i remember that the phrase "Dumb Hunky"

or "Dumb bohunk" was very offensive to the adults in my family. It was a phrase the already americanized americans used to describe eastern europeans.

I am an American of Eastern European descent and really feel that the word "white" doesn't describe me...

[Name removed]

129. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SOteric]

130. To be hurt or offended by a word or epithet,

you have to have been oppressed by it, and by those who use it.

We who are white have not been damaged or oppressed by those who would call us 'honky,' or 'whitey.' It may be sneering and derisive, but it does not evoke a sense of subjugation, of being less than those who hurl the name.

[Breezy du Nord]

132. When I was in Mexico i got called gringa

But with affection, so it was all right. I'm really not too sensitive when it comes to that.

[TahitiNut]

137. "Latefordinner" always pisses me off.

:silly:

[booley]

138. saying this will undoubtidly get me in trouble

but the answer for me is both yes and no.

No in that I learned a long time ago that words only have the power you give to them. so calling me a name isn't actually hurting me. If you call me a cracker, I'm not going to burst into flame.

ON THE OTHER HAND...

I understand not everyone shares my enlightened views and can be hurt by words. Kids are the most obviouse examples. Telling a little kid, black, white, whatever..that you hate her becuase of what she is is such an incredibly mean thing to do. Plus I was always raised to NOT use racists words becuase they were hateful at heart and why show such ugliness for no reason, especially when you don't mean it?
not to mention, it wasn't that long ago that such words were a precurser to doing actual harm. want to set somebody off, threaten thier life.
So I don't use the N word, for instance, becuase of how I was raised. a possibly irrational action since it is just a word..but still.

But one time I did use it, which leads me to a little story... I once knew a black guy that liked to use the word "f@g" for people he didn't like. It was always f@ggot this and f@ggot that.
Did I mention I'm gay?
well, that and it was obviouse he did have a low opinion of gay people. somehow, I forget exactly how, somebody asked him to stop using that word becuase it was hurtful and I happened to be there. He also found out then I was gay (which doesn't normally come up in conversation but I think the person asking him to stop was trying to show that he shouldn't use the word becuase it was hurting my feelings. well, it was annoying, to tell the truth.

"Why? I ain't got anything against f@gs. " he said. as if that was any excuse. "Do you mind if I use the word?" He asked.

A better set up I could not ask for...

"No, i replied, 'as long as I can you a Ni%%er."

he stopped using that word. though I also think that i was twice his size helped him oversome his prejudices. especially when they came crashing into his face.
And see, I can't even spell the word unless I get really mad. I've been conditioned, I suppose.

I guess my point is...if demeaning one group is bad, why would denigrating another group be GOOD? It seems too often we in this country only get rid of one kind of prejudice by replacing it with a new one. Social classes only move up by making a new class at the very bottom. and yep, hate breeds hate.
not meaning to offend but I thought an honest answer would be more helpful then a stock PC one.

[RapidCreek]

140. can't say that any of those terms bother me that much.....

then again groups of black folks weren't shouting them at my grandfather while they strung him up from a tree either.

RC

[nayt]

141. gringo

i'm pretty offended by gringo, as i've been called that quite a few times by hispanic persons on account of i'm not bilingual.

[liberalcapitalist]

142. I don't like the term "white boy"

It's emasculating and diminutive. The inverse, "black boy," is certainly not appropriate. Worst of all, "white boy" is not seen by most as a slur. It is the only slur that I find personally offensive. Pale-face, peckerwood, cracker, gringo, blue-eyed white devil, honky, white trash, etc., I do not find offensive.

[Iverson]

143. bigotry vs. racism

Of course I am offended by bigoted statements directed at me, since I am offended by bigoted statements period.

Racism is slightly different than bigotry, and I wonder whether you draw a distinction.

Cheers.

[Undemcided]

146. I hate being called a racist.

By people who don't know me or my life.

[AP]

157. Does that happen often?

[Undemcided]

159. Mainly when I say I don't support affirmative action.

n/t

[Must_B_Free]

149. "Haole"

that's what hawaiian islanders call whites - Haole.

I don't like it.

[DrWeird]

150. Depends on the context.

My chinese office worker doesn't like japanese. Primarily because of what they did to his family in WWII. I don't approve of it, but I understand it and it doesn't bother me. I think I'd feel the same way towards jews who harbor resentment towards modern day germans. Or african americans towards white americans.

[Monument]

155. I couldn't care less

Calling somebody a racist name is like wearing a giant sign which reads "I am an idiot".

I personally have never, ever been bothered by any slang terms even when I lived in a 95% latino barrio in a neighborhood in the Northeast and people would say ridiculous things to me due to the color of my skin (I'm white). Honestly I can say that it never, ever bothered me.

[ArkDem]

153. Honkey Lips.

.

[MacCovern]

154. Member of the Master Race....

It doesn't get any more racist than that. It's not true, and I can this even though my middle name is Wolfgang.

[mmonk]

158. Not really

being a white southern male, I've gotten used to negative descriptions directed my way. We don't really experience institutionalized racism. Therefore, it wouldn't bother me like a racial slur from a racist towards someone from our minority community.

[ScholarSeeker]

160. No, but I have not experienced bigotry and opression like Blacks have

[Disandra]

161. Funny story...

My ethnic heritage includes Cuban (descendant of the native population and of the black slaves) on my Grandmother's side and Spain--my last name, "Pardo" can be traced to a group of Moroccan Jewish settlers in Pardo, a province of Viscaya, Spain, on my Grandfather's side. My mother's family is Scots-Irish. (Both my grandmother's are big fans of genealogy so it is kind of neat that I can learn about most of my family, although we can only trace my Cuban grandmother's family back so far because of genocide and slavery).

Anyway, I don't look like I can fit in any ethnic group. I'm asked a lot where my people are from, or when people try to guess, they usually guess from the Middle East somewhere. I've been called every name in the book, except (which I find kind of funny) spic and whitey. One time some guy called me a "rag head" and I told him that if he wanted to insult me, at least he could get it right: I'm an Irish drunk, kilt-wearing spic, who also happens to be a kike, negro redneck born in the south.

Funny enough, that guy never spoke to me again. I think the moral of the story here is to throw it right back in their racist faces and enjoy their embarrassment.

[Ediacara]

162. Nothing related to whites in general

but being Italian, I find the words "wop" and "guido" very offensive.

[brainwashed_youth]

168. I was reading

Malcolm X's biography and was a little uneasy every time he'd talk abotu the "white devils", but other than that, nope, I ain't all that offended

[Jawja]

163. Redneck

eom

[One Taste]

164. Nope..not that I've heard of

[BurtWorm]

169. Peckerwood comes closest to getting under my skin.

The truth is, words like those, it seems to me, don't and can't work the same way as words going in the other direction. Words going that way are meant to dehumanize; words coming this way are meant to deflate.