Baghdad Burning. American Heroes?

[L84TEA]

What are we getting ourselves into? I am almost embarrassed to read this woman blog because it is so true it hurts. POWERFUL? PAINFUL? How long do we stand and watch? I have snipped some, but I suggest you go read it...

http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

"The mosque strewn with bodies of Iraqis- not still with prayer or meditation, but prostrate with death-.."
<snip>
"They killed a wounded man. It's hard to believe. They killed a man who was completely helpless- like he was some sort of diseased animal. I had read the articles and heard the stories of this happening before- wounded civilians being thrown on the side of the road or shot in cold blood- but to see it happening on television is something else- it makes me crazy with anger."
<snip>

"It's typical American technique- every single atrocity is lost and covered up by blaming a specific person and getting it over with. What people don't understand is that the whole military is infested with these psychopaths.."
..
"So why is the world so obsessed with beheadings? How is this so very different? The difference is that the people who are doing the beheadings are extremists… the people slaughtering Iraqis- torturing in prisons and shooting wounded prisoners- are "American Heroes". Congratulations, you must be so proud of yourselves today."

[RyomaSakamoto]

1. Thank Gore he 'INVENTED' the Internet!

we will never recover from the truth of our horror as it comes to light :cry:

[mike_c]

2. "...the whole military is infested with these psychopaths."

Bears repeating over and over.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. Wait - it's getting worse

I see on the news that there's some talk about the shooter being justified, perhaps, because he was afraid the wounded man was boobytrapped.

In law, we call that an affirmative defense.

It would appear the spin weasels are running at full speed already.

Even at the worst of Vietnam, I was not ashamed of my country, because I believed in its essential goodness.

I was much younger then.

I no longer believe that goodness has much of a chance any more.

[Briar]

7. There's an article in the Guardian today

that reveals that this is what soldiers are trained to do.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1352755,00.html

"There is a drill, for instance, for "clearing ground". This is a combat tactic, now used by every army in the world, for securing an area that has just been captured. The context is this: there's just been a battle; there will be bodies and weapons lying around. Your unit will go past the area that was the target (it might be just a courtyard or a building). Once everyone and everything has been checked - which takes a matter of seconds, two minutes at most - the section commander will order a couple of soldiers, working as a pair, to go back and "clear the ground".

"I really don't believe anyone is ever prepared for the reality of warfare, but all your training is about breaking down soldiering into little pieces, the drills that you do again and again. Then those elements are put back together to build you into an effective soldier. You learn a skill like stripping a rifle, putting on a field dressing, or "clearing ground", so that you can still do it under fire. You learn to concentrate on the little things so that you don't think about what might happen if you get shot. You learn just to do your job without worrying about the big stuff."

"The main purpose is to gather intelligence - paperwork, maps, radios. When you know that there have very recently been people in that area trying to kill you, do you go up to a body and start to rummage through pockets without knowing for sure that the guy isn't actually still alive and about to stick a 10-inch knife in you? So where there are bodies, you don't go near them. Not until you have put two bullets into each, fired usually from a range of several yards. Then one soldier holds back to provide cover while the other runs up, and first lies on top of the body to immobilise it and make it difficult for the enemy to use a firearm if he's lying doggo. Next the soldier rolls the body over towards his partner so that the covering man can check for any sign of a booby-trap. The idea of this is that, if there is an explosive device, the body itself will afford the first soldier some protection, while the other soldier will be out of range."

"War is a cold-blooded business, and I think people need to wrap their heads around that concept. If you are there, you simply have to grasp the nettle and do an effective job. You have to deal with the situation, and then get out. "



We train people to be cold-blooded, affectless blokes going about a murderous job. This terrible thing, and the terrible things they do, is our responsibility as well, as long as we tolerate war.

[Mizmoon]

11. yes, I watched 5 minutes of The Fallafal Factor

and O'Dildo was talking about how the body might have been booby trapped and things get crazy in a war and no one can blame the troops. Blah blah blah ... I wish I could say I was shocked, but these people are so fucking insane that I expect just about anything to come out of their mouths.

[kuozzman]

4. I don't like some of the things I'm seeing either, but

this is a pretty biased take of the situation:

"The mosque strewn with bodies of Iraqis- not still with prayer or meditation, but prostrate with death-.."
<snip>
"They killed a wounded man. It's hard to believe. They killed a man who was completely helpless- like he was some sort of diseased animal.

At least some of the bodies strewn in the mosque were in there b/c we're not supposed to shoot at them and they sit in there and snipe us like a bunch of pussies, so we killed them.

It is horrible, however that we are killing so many civilians, and completely demolishing their city. It just makes you think that there is really no good reason for us to have ever been there. I feel bad for the soldiers, I can't imagine actually getting fired on every day, let alone ending so many peoples' lives and seeing mangled bodies and so much death.....

[L84TEA]

5. Good point,

I don't blame the soldiers... But again should we even be putting them in this situation?

[stellanoir]

6. Riverbend

has been the only voice of truth and reason in this ill fated conflict.

Let's all pray for her safety. And also that this heinously ill conceived conflict will be ameliorated by international intervention soon.

We cannot trust our leaders or our media or our voting systems any longer.

It's excrutiatingly painful.

[Briar]

14. No, we shouldn't be putting them in such a situation

The leaders who sent them there are equally at fault. And the voters who endorsed their war mongering policies.

[HamdenRice]

12. How narrow minded can you be?

Even if they were shooting at US forces, it's because US forces invaded their country illegally. If the Chinese Red Army somehow successfully invaded the US and a battalion was laying seige to your town in Kansas, and then decided to invade, guns blazing, under orders to kill everything that moved, do you think you would be entitled to take up arms and defend your town? Why do you not think that Iraqis are going to fight back? And if they are fighting, you seem to be suggesting, they are not supposed to take cover? American soldiers are in tanks and armored personnel carriers, and you think it is cowardly for them to fight from inside a building?

You must think the only valid form of warfare is idiotic civil war formations squaring off against each other in open fields.

[Francine Frensky]

8. I love reading Riverbend, (well, love/hate actually)

It is very poignant and tells the "other side", how the children in her house react to the bombs dropping at night, how families feel about watching other's houses be raided, how parents worry about their children being kidnapped, how hard it is to live with sporadic water and electricity, the change of seasons...it's really a beautiful blog, even though it is hard to read sometimes....

but I am not convinced it is real, somehow. Riverbend obviously knows a lot about Western/American culture and has references to things that mean she HAS to have lived in America for some time...

Is there any way to verify that this person exists?

[eridani]

9. Raed thinks she does.

He was the first well-known Iraqi blogger. I understand that her family did a lot of travelling abroad when she was younger, and that she has had some schooling in Europe.

[L84TEA]

10. I believe her

I think she may have studied here. I thought I read that. Also most Iraq women aren't as supressed as Bush would like us to believe. A lot of women have higher educations and have jobs.
I believe her.

[Briar]

13. They used to have more rights

Saddam's regime was a secular one. Some women definitely benefited from this, while one of the "benefits" of Bush and Blair's war is that women are being increasingly deprived of these rights as fundamentalist islam becomes more influential.