"Then we'll have another war" (we've been lied to!)

[plurality]

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/english/0,1518,262771,00.html

SPIEGEL: Senator Lugar, the Americans are suffering a dozen armed attacks every day in Iraq, and each attack claims the life of one US soldier on average (Pentagon hiding casualties anyone?! This is 12 dead a day!). Given this situation, are things still progressing as planned?
Lugar: These are tragic losses. But they do not change our administration's determination to ensure that Iraq does not become an incubator for terrorism and a threat to its neighbors.

snip

SPIEGEL: Following your return from Iraq, you said that the United States' involvement there would last at least five years...

Lugar: ...but hopefully not with 146,000 soldiers. I said that because I wanted to emphasize the need for our administration to present a five-year budget for our mission in Iraq. The Iraqi state currently needs about thirty billion dollars a year to cover its ongoing costs. The oil wells are expected to generate a cash flow of fourteen billion within the foreseeable future. Who will come up with the other sixteen? Who will pay for reconstruction? And what about the country's enormous mountain of debt, which is estimated at up to 200 billion dollars? We urgently need debt forgiveness by the creditor states. Do you truly believe that an independent Iraqi administration would be capable of defending itself against all these international claims? We may not be providing the ideal administration at this time, but we can certainly achieve more in this respect.

SPIEGEL: Won't a five-year allied presence simply reinforce the already widely held impression that you came to Iraq as occupiers and not as liberators?

Lugar: That's possible. But we can contribute a lot to the stability of the country in five years. Besides, think about Germany for a minute. We still maintain a presence there half a century after World War II, and yet no one sees us as occupiers.

[grytpype]

1. No, not 12 dead a day.

I think the interviewer meant a death every DAY, on average.

[plurality]

2. he said 12 attacks a day and...

each attack claims on average 1 dead soldier.

[ozymandius]

3. This line bothers me.

each attack claims the life of one US soldier on average

That sounds very unequivocal. I wonder where this Spiegel interviewer gets this information.

[plurality]

4. notice Lugar didn't dispute the fact

he just said these are tragic losses. you'd think if the interviewer had overstated our losses in the premise that Lugar would have corrected him.

[markses]

5. So you think CENTCOM is hiding 11 day?

77 a week? Let's even round down and say 800 dead over the last two months? That's silly.

The interviewer misspoke.

[plurality]

6. it's possible

notice in the news reports of dead soldiers it has no name of the dead soldier (always pending notification of kin). It's simple tell all the relatives of those soldiers their son/daughter/brother/etc.. was killed, unless they know all the other families of dead soldiers (highly unlikely) they'll believe that they were unlucky enough to have their loved be the one (reported) soldier that was killed that day.

[alcuno]

9. The interviewer is German. It's a language mistake.

The DoD cannot hide fatalities because they would have to be explaing why all those names never make it to their official website list. Here is an accurate list including any who die later from their injuries. There's also a link to the DoD website.

http://www.pigstye.net/iraq/

[Kellanved]

10. correct

Spiegel is still experimenting with the English versions of the cover stories.

The German original is
--snip
SPIEGEL: Senator Lugar, täglich erleiden die Amerikaner im Irak ein Dutzend bewaffneter Überfälle, bei denen durchschnittlich ein US-Soldat stirbt. Läuft da noch alles nach Plan?
--snap

It says 12 attacks and one dead per day on average.

[plurality]

12. ok, translation mistake, my bad n/t

[TahitiNut]

16. Yes, the antecedent of "bei denen" is plural.

So, rather than "... and each attack claims the life ..." the English should have read "... <and> these attacks claim the life ...". The literal translation of "bei denen" to "with which" becomes ambiguous in English since 'which' doesn't carry the sense of a (collective) plural antecendent. Thus, repeating the subject (attacks) is editorially prudent. :shrug:

[plurality]

11. that's true yet...

they could also delay notification, or list them as MIA.

Also I didn't think the Pentagon was doing csualty reports. I vaguely recall some article from before the invasion or after Afganistan that they were no longer going to compile lists. Did they change their policy?

[Journeyman]

15. Do you think, between the internet, local news sources. . .

and the military families currently protesting government policy in Iraq (to say nothing of interested groups such as DU and the like), no one has noticed the additional 77+ soldier funerals each week? I believe der Spiegel's reporter misspoke.

[trogdor]

7. He's comparing apples to horse turds.

...think about Germany for a minute. We still maintain a presence there half a century after World War II, and yet no one sees us as occupiers.

We sit in Germany at the pleasure of the German government. All they have to do is ask us to leave. It's VERY different.

[QuietStorm]

8. how powerful is the CFR in the scheme of things

I have read a very little bit on this and this groups cross over with Elitist groups namely Bilderberg, but getting a handle on it is difficult. anyone have any thoughts?

[PATRICK]

13. Axis is very bad example

First they fiormally surrendered and all their leaders were captured with no paramilitaries or armed citizenry around. We had a skeleton presence compared to Iraq but it was efficient and mucho bucks DID rebuiltd the nations without too much American corporate takeovers of their infrastructure.

And the people did get real self-determination, real democracy, real policing and relief and real innoculation against the resurgence of undesired things like militarism and fascism.

In just about every detail we resemble the occupation of the Sudetenland or Poland except we were not brutal enough to actually succeed. In fact, the facade of trying to act like we did in postwar Axis countries has been gutted by Bush crony opportunism and pretensions to classic style empire.

Lugar needs to wake up to the real world. His wise critiques on Korea too are laughable and ignored by his own party. I guess you can still make a career in the middle of the Great Disconnect. But expect to look very very stupid.

[Kellanved]

14. FYI: Lugar was in Berlin to talk with Chancellor Schröder

He must have been a difficult guest - or they would have taken a nicer picture.



Shortly after the meeting Schröder told the media: "no troops".
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=79704